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Pre Tribulation Rapture

He notes that the Thessalonians were concerned because they thought that they were in the Day of the Lord. Then he says that this proves that the Rapture has to happen before the Tribulation. No. It is an indication -not proof- that the Rapture happens before the Day of the Lord because it is possible -not certain- that the reason for their concern was that they missed the Rapture. If the Tribulation does not coincide with the Day of the Lord, then it doesn't relate to the question.
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On the other hand, there is a passage, II Thessalonians 1:6-7, that tells us that the Church will be given rest from tribulation when the Lord Jesus is revealed. Matthew 24:30 tells us when the Lord Jesus will be revealed: when the signs appear in the sky, after the Great Tribulation. Joel 2:31 tells us that the signs in the sky happen before the Day of the Lord. This gives us the order: (1) Great Tribulation (2) Signs, manifestation, rest from Tribulation (3) Day of the Lord. This distinguishes the Day of the Lord from the Great Tribulation. The Church is thus to be rescued after the Great Tribulation, at the manifestation, before the Day of the Lord.
That is the second coming. the church is raptured pre-trib, tereo ek. the Day of the Lord included the 7 year trib.

If the Day of the Lord includes the 7 year Tribulation, yet the signs in the sky precede the Day of the Lord, that would mean that the 7 year Trib. cannot happen before the signs in the sky. But Jesus said that the signs in the sky come immediately after the Great Tribulation. Joel: The Day of the Lord is after the signs, Jesus: the Tribulation is before the signs. Therefore, the Day of the Lord is distinct from the Tribulation.
Joel 2:31 says that the signs in the sky will happen before the Day of the Lord comes. This does not allow any aspect of the Day of the Lord to be present before the signs occur. Therefore, the DOTL, in its totality, must be after the signs.

In addition, I pointed out 2 Thess 1:6-7, that identify the manifestation of the Lord Jesus as a point of change between tribulation from the enemies of God toward the Church and tribulation of God towards the persecutors. That manifestation occurs at the same time as (apparently immediately following) the signs in the sky. Both Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 6:15-17 tell us that the people of the world will be terrified as they recognize that the day of the Lord's wrath has come. Thus, this change point marks the end of the Great Tribulation of the Church and the beginning of the wrath of God towards His enemies.
I read your link, but you give no statements of scripture to support your conclusions. You say that this chapter refers to Armageddon and this other chapter refers to the GT, but there is nothing in the chapter that states that. For a specific example, you say that I Thess 5:1-11 refers to the rapture, but the text there does not mention rapture, as I Thess 4:14-18 does. In contrast, the introduction statement "But..." speaks of times and seasons. The Day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night. The rapture does not. "the rapture is a sign" is not stated nor shown anywhere in Scripture.

These conclusions that you reach using your own analyses should never be used to develop a schedule of events that directly contradict specific statements of the prophecies.
You apparently think that the rapture happens at the same time as the Coming of Christ. I used to think that, until I carefully checked what the prophecies say. This statement: "...so whenever you think more than the father knows." doesn't make sense, grammatically, and is not appropriate for a forum administrator. You may remove me from this forum. I don't intend to participate anymore.
Hi @Corelssue,

I, too, was hoping for a pre-trib gathering, but check this out with an open mind:


I had to read the article more than once to understand what was being suggested.
Sounds like Historic Premillenialism, which has many errors.

Rev. 3:10 is solid pretrib, thief in the night. Unseen.
Return as he left is 2nd coming, not rapture. Seen.
2 witnesses are raptured mid-trib.
Living Israel is gathered to Israel at 2nd coming, no rapture.
2 Peter, thief in the night rapture at end of MK.
No church in Rev on earth after Rev 4.
Rev 19, church/bride after wedding supper.
have some who believe that it is mid trib saying the judgement of God is not until then
I have said the church is not mentioned after Rev 4

need some help on this to explain it to them