Angel of the Lord

[Eternaity In Thee]

Joh 8:56

αβρααμ Abraham - ο the - πατηρ father - υμων he - ηγαλλιασατο rejoiced - ινα for that -

ιδη seeing - την the - ημεραν day - την of - εμην me - και and - ειδεν did see - και and -

εχαρη was glad / happy




;56 Abraham the father he rejoiced for that seeing the day of me

and did see and was glad * / happy

​

I think the great question is about how that the Spirit of God had manifest himself in the form of an human with living literal flesh and blood and in this manifestation it was described as THE " Angel Of The Lord "

The term "" THE ANGEL OF THE LORD """ is mentiond 59 total times in the Hebrew manuscripts

these total 59 instances are "" THE ANGEL OF THE LORD """ visiting

Hagar , Abraham , Joshuah , Balaam , Deborah and Barak , Gideon , the wife of Manoah , King David , Elijah , Hezekiah , Zechariah



only in 8 total times do we find the term " AN ANGEL OF THE LORD " "

Jdg 2:1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.

Jdg 6:11 And there came an angel of the LORD , and sat under an oak which was in Ophrah, that pertained unto Joash the Abiezrite: and his son Gideon threshed wheat by the winepress, to hide it from the Midianites.

Jdg 6:22 And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the LORD , Gideon said, Alas, O Lord GOD! for because I have seen an angel of the LORD face to face.

Jdg 13:16 And THE angel of the LORD said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the LORD. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the LORD.


Jdg 13:21 But THE angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD.

Mat_2:19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the LORD appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,

Luk 1:11 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.

Act 7:30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.

as far as we can see there seems to be no difference between the phrase
THE angel of the LORD - - and an angel of the LORD

the Hebrew word - מַלְאָךְ - mal'âk / mal-awk'
simply means - a despatched deputy; a messenger; , an angel - ambassador, - messenger. ?
\
could it be that it is not truthful nor scriptural to attempt to define the Trinity Doctrine by the means of listing Angels or messengers of the Old Testament - and rather the truth is that these are the spirit of God himself manifesting himself in messengers / angels of the Lord .

and that Jesus was God because he existed eternally as God's spirit in the Old Testament but did not previously exist as the manifestation Son Of God ?

the answer I believe whould be answered is, where is the begotten Son Of God in the Old Testament ?

manifestations of God - are not the begotten Son of God himself, whom had not been yet conceived ? ​

 

[Eternaity In Thee]

I just mean

there is no indication in the Old Testament of a Savior or any type of method in which the Begotten Son Of God is used in application

in the Old Testament - Jesus had no purpose in the Old Testament - as for - how in the form that God manifested himself from within the New Testament.

why attempt to insert the Trinity into the Old Testament when the New Testament declares that the very future coming manifestation of Jesus conception was kept secret, hidden, unknown and not known to anyone at that time ?

do the translations insert wording - weave in wording and add insertions and change the orginal message, to add ideas into the Old Testament manuscripts - by making changes ?

that causes readers to find Jesus in the Old Testament - contrary to the fact that the future coming manifestation of Jesus conception was kept secret, hidden, unknown and not known to anyone at that time

did God fail to keep this hidden, secret and unknown to the Old Testament Hebrews

 

[CoreIssue]

trinity in the ot were the first, 2nd and 3rd persons of the Godhead, Elohim.

 

[CoreIssue]

I have studied 62 years.

Elohim​

Elohim, the plural of אֱלוֹהַּ‎, is a Hebrew word meaning "gods" or "godhood". Although the word is plural, in the Hebrew Bible it most often takes singular verbal or pronominal agreement and refers to a single deity, particularly the God of Israel in the majestic plural.

Is the Trinity taught in the Old Testament? | GotQuestions.org

Is the Trinity taught in the Old Testament? Can the doctrine of the Trinity be defended with support from the Old Testament?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Matthias]

The one God of the Hebrew Bible is the one God of the New Testament -> the God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob and Jesus.

 

[Matthias]

Welcome to CTZ @Eternaity In Thee. By policy of the owner, I’m restricted to this section of the board because I’m not a trinitarian. Looking forward to reading your posts and speaking with you.

 

[Matthias]

The set up.

”If any one thinks that these things are invented by us, let him inquire of them, let him take especially from them: the testimony is sufficiently strong to prove the truth, when it is alleged by enemies themselves.”

(Lactantius, The Divine Institutes, Vol. IV, Chapter XII)

Lactantius, writing early in the 4th century, is referring here to the Jews and speaking about their concessions to his position. It’s the principle of concessions on certain points made by those who disagree with us in the main that I will be using in this post (and others).

The trinitarian concession.

”… it seems quite clear that there was no expectation in Judaism of a divine Messiah. However great the person and work of the Anointed One were to be, he was certainly to be a creature. Whether the Jews viewed the Messiah as the pre-existent son of man or the richly endowed but purely human son of David, they saw in him only a creature, only Yahweh’s administrator, vested with powers from Him but wholly subordinate to Him. It is in Yahweh Himself that the messianic kingdom centers. …

There is no evidence that any sacred [Old Testament] writer even suspected the existence of a divine paternity and filiation within the Godhead. …

But to the people of the Old Testament the Wisdom of God was never a person to be addressed but only a personification of an attribute or activity of Yahweh.

The spirit of Yahweh is a creative force, a saving power, a spirit of judgment, a charismatic spirit, a spirit of life and of inward renewal, a prophetic spirit. Although this spirit is often described in personal terms, it seems quite clear that the sacred writers never conceived or presented this spirit as a distinct person.

Many of the sacred writers spoke of a Messiah who was to be Yahweh’s agent in establishing the kingdom of Yahweh in the messianic age. However, they regarded the Messiah not as a divine person but as a creature, a charismatic leader, a Davidic king.

Thus the Old Testament writings about God neither express nor imply any idea of or belief in a plurality of persons within the one Godhead. Even to see in them suggestions or foreshadowings or ‘veiled signs’ of the trinity of persons, is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred writers.

(Edmund J. Fortman, The Triune God: A Historical Study of the Doctrine of the Trinity, pp. 8,9)

Brackets and bold are mine.