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looking for Genesis

JLG

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Somebody says :

I don't think it "cleary" shows anything of the sort. Many men in the Old Testament who were blessed by God had multiple wives, and committed adultery as well.

One clear example is King David. He was "immoral" but was clearly blessed by God.
 

JLG

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Somebody says :


Since Abraham produced a child by his servant, he committed adultery. And he was blessed by God and became the father of many nations.

Polygamy was practiced extensively during the OT era. Jacob, a.k.a. Israel, had multiple wives (as did Esau, Gideon). Look at David(!) and Solomon ; they both had multiple wives, yet they were clearly blessed by God and built His temple.

So your claim that "the faithfulservants of Yah.weh had only one wife !" [sic] is simply untrue.
 

JLG

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1)

- Apparently, you only read part of David’s life !

- he made a bad end !

- Yah .weh tolerated !, nothing more !

- And he took Bath-Sheba and killed her husband !

- You should read again 2 Samuel 12 !

- He was condemned !

- He was going to be in trouble!

- And Yah.weh would give his wives to another man !

- Andv everybody in Israel would see it !

- And Amnon had sex with his sister Tamar!

- Then he started hating her !

- On time, Absalom killed Amnon !

- Then Absalom organized a conspiracy against David !

- David ran away and left Jerusalem !

- Then Absalom has sex with the ten concubines David left in Jerusalem !

- Then David must flee continuously !

- Absalom is defeated and killed !
 

JLG

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2)

- Same for Solomon !

- In 1 Kings chapter 11, we are told that Solomon loved many foreign women against Yah.weh’s will and according to what Yah.weh had told Israel not to do !

- And he had 700 wives and 300 concubines !

- And his wives gradually inclined his heart to follow other gods !

- And he did what was bad in the eyes of Yah.weh !

- And Yah.weh became furious at Solomon !

- Thus Yah.weh divided Israel in two parts !

- But because of David, he didn’t do it during Solomon’s life and he left Judah in the hands of the house of Solomon !
 

JLG

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3)

- Yah.weh permitted Abraham to have a child with Hagar !

- But it was only to have descendants because Sarah was barren !

- And Abraham’s heir was Isaac, Sarah’s son !

- When Abraham married a second time after Sarah’s death, it was to have more children !

- It was a necessity to have many choldren for survival especially taking into account their conditions of living !

- Moreover, it was easy for women to die when giving birth !
 

JLG

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4)

- Once again, Jacob was to have only one wife !

- But he was tricked by his father-in-law !

- And then his two wives gave him their servants to get more children to assure offspring !
 

JLG

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5)

- In Matthew chapter 19, Jesus says exactly the same !

- He repeats Yah.weh’s commandment about man and woman becoming one flesh !

- And in verse 6 he adds :

Therefore
οὖν (oun)
Conjunction
Strong's 3767: Therefore, then. Apparently a primary word; certainly, or accordingly.

what
ὃ (ho)
Personal / Relative Pronoun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's 3739: Who, which, what, that.

God
Θεὸς (Theos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

has joined together,
συνέζευξεν (synezeuxen)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 4801: To yoke together, unite (as man and wife). From sun and the base of zeugos; to yoke together, i.e. conjoin.

[let] man
ἄνθρωπος (anthrōpos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 444: A man, one of the human race. From aner and ops; man-faced, i.e. A human being.

not
μὴ (mē)
Adverb
Strong's 3361: Not, lest. A primary particle of qualified negation; not, lest; also (whereas ou expects an affirmative one) whether.

separate.”
χωριζέτω (chōrizetō)
Verb - Present Imperative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 5563: From chora; to place room between, i.e. Part; reflexively, to go away.

- Then about the certificate of repudiation, he adds :

Jesus answered,
Λέγει (Legei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 3004: (a) I say, speak; I mean, mention, tell, (b) I call, name, especially in the pass., (c) I tell, command.

“[It was] because of
πρὸς (pros)
Preposition
Strong's 4314: To, towards, with. A strengthened form of pro; a preposition of direction; forward to, i.e. Toward.

your
ὑμῶν (hymōn)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Genitive 2nd Person Plural
Strong's 4771: You. The person pronoun of the second person singular; thou.

hardness of heart
σκληροκαρδίαν (sklērokardian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's 4641: Feminine of a compound of skleros and kardia; hard-heartedness, i.e., destitution of perception.

[that] Moses
Μωϋσῆς (Mōusēs)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 3475: Or Moses, or Mouses of Hebrew origin; Moseus, Moses, or Mouses, the Hebrew lawgiver.

permitted
ἐπέτρεψεν (epetrepsen)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 2010: To turn to, commit, entrust; I allow, yield, permit. From epi and the base of trope; to turn over, i.e. Allow.

you
ὑμῖν (hymin)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Dative 2nd Person Plural
Strong's 4771: You. The person pronoun of the second person singular; thou.

to divorce
ἀπολῦσαι (apolysai)
Verb - Aorist Infinitive Active
Strong's 630: From apo and luo; to free fully, i.e. relieve, release, dismiss, or let die, pardon or divorce.

your
ὑμῶν (hymōn)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Genitive 2nd Person Plural
Strong's 4771: You. The person pronoun of the second person singular; thou.

wives;
γυναῖκας (gynaikas)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Plural
Strong's 1135: A woman, wife, my lady. Probably from the base of ginomai; a woman; specially, a wife.

but
δὲ (de)
Conjunction
Strong's 1161: A primary particle; but, and, etc.

[it] was
γέγονεν (gegonen)
Verb - Perfect Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 1096: A prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be, i.e. to become, used with great latitude.

not
οὐ (ou)
Adverb
Strong's 3756: No, not. Also ouk, and ouch a primary word; the absolute negative adverb; no or not.

this way
οὕτως (houtōs)
Adverb
Strong's 3779: Thus, so, in this manner. Or (referring to what precedes or follows).

from
ἀπ’ (ap’)
Preposition
Strong's 575: From, away from. A primary particle; 'off, ' i.e. Away, in various senses.

[the] beginning.
ἀρχῆς (archēs)
Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's 746: From archomai; a commencement, or chief.
 

JLG

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6)

- The story of Israel tells us about a people who constantly opposes Yah.weh !

- He tolerated their misconduct !

- He could have destroyed them !

- Finally, they did a bad end !

- Everything he told them not to do, they did it !
 

Speak Light

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.

I understand your reply and what you are saying and do agree with most everything you said.

you quote a couple bible verses about

no divorcing……….. and staying faithfully married to a spouse…………..


and you mention details about sins of Lamech David, Solomon and mention how Jacob was tricked - you are mentioning Gideon also.
please realize that my post was not attempting to claim that any of the scriptures I presented are saying that divorce is something biblical nor that divorce - is ok with God

I never stated this, -

a husband and his multiple wives whom are truly { each one of them } indeed " united "…… each one of the wives are joined flesh, united with their husband. I also never attempted to say that that they should depart from the marriage when they consent to add another new wife.

Can you please explain why you would doubt my faith that divorce is against God’s plan ? or why you would doubt my faith that a man and his multiple wives are united / joined flesh. The Lord Jesus himself continually reminds us of the same unity / unification, in that himself and all of his bride composed of many multiple believers are all in unity / unification / united.

I can appreciate the examples that you had present, however, please recall that even Adam and Eve who were the only man and woman on earth and united in a monogamy relationship - they both, in their monogamy caused the downfall of the human race for the last 6000 years.

Adam and Eve were in a life where monogamy was at its most powerful and potent form and existed as the very best potential and perfect example possible, monogamy was then in its strongest and most powerful form that has ever existed. And still their decision to commit immoral acts, to sin, to defile their bodies and disobey God’s commandment was not prevented by the state and the situation , the status , and circumstance and condition of being monogamous.

1Co 6:16
η Or - ουκ not - οιδατε you knew - οτι that - ο he - κολλωμενος that is joined

τη the - πορνη harlot - εν IN - σωμα body, , - εστιν it is - εσονται them who

- γαρ for - φησιν it is said - οι that - δυο two - εις into - σαρκα flesh - μιαν united

but then your translation says - 1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Your statements resembles and truly reminds me of a conversation that I had with a Roman Catholic friend whom - my Catholic friend as defending the claim how that Mother Mary was sinless because she was born without the sex act, )* in other words Mary was conceived without the act of sexual intercourse - Immaculate Conception !

The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception teaches that Mary, the mother of Christ, was conceived without sin and her conception was immaculate and not through a sexual act.


Mary’s mother was a virgin. - - - - BUT, if not having sex will make an individual potentially closer to God - as Roman Catholics believe, this did not help Adam and Eve who were also not even born from a sexual conception.

Both Adam and Eve were neither born from a sexual act. They were created and given life and there was no sex, NO BIRTH involved in their creation. - Adam and Eve were Immaculately Created. Yet even though Adam and Eve both had never had sex themselves and they were not born or created from a sexual act _ and THEY WERE NOT EVEN BORN FROM A HUMAN WOMAN - _

this did not help them or prevent them from committing sin. this did nothing for them.

Don't you think that it is foolishness, This entire concept absolutely has no value or meaning in the BIble.

Yet, even though Adam and Eve both had never had sex and they were not born or created from a another human _ this did not help them or prevent them from committing sin. This did nothing for them, Cain who never had committed a sex act in his life, Cain had never married or had relationship with a woman, yet, he brutally murdered his own innocent brother.

SO……. when we look at characters such as - Adam, Joseph, Isaac and Noah or Elijah or Paul and Peter - and others who lived in an evil and defiled environment with a very narrow and limited potential for adding multiple Godly wives, they were only able to find a single women after waiting for many, many years. This is not necessarily due to the fact that they personally chose and self determined to live a monogamous marriage situation, God was not commanding this, but the fact is, these monogamous men were living in marriage situations were at this point of situation and circumstance and location and time and where they lived, the environment around them, they simply did not have opportunity to have multiple wives who were Godly women. They had to wait many years just to find one good and Godly woman to marry.

Noah had his sons at the age of 500 years old, everyone around Noah were wicked and perverted and evil - Joseph, he lived among pagan women and married the daughter of a pagan priest in Egypt,

we do not even know if Asenath his Egyptian wife stayed committed to Joseph - there is so much that is assumed and injected and inserted with not a single strand of Biblical, Scriptural foundation, it's truth seems to be determined to be truth - based upon how much we can distract and sway the conversation away from the evident facts that I present.

But I enjoy discussing these realities with you, thanks for your friendly reply.
 
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JLG

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- First of all, thank you for your participation !

- I am not used to having messages on CTZ !

- I particularly appreciate the quality of your arguments !

- In fact, I didn’t know you had sent two messages !

- So i onjly read the second one !

- I will start with the last one !

- If you look carefully, you will see that the divorce has nothing to do with you !

- I was answering the message of somebody’s else !

- It was necessary to speak about what Jesus thinks about the subject !

- And the fact there is no difference between what Yah.weh says and what Jesus says !

- You are completely right when you speak about Adam and Eve !

- Because Adam chose to follow his wife and eat the fruit !

- Because he didn’t want to lose her !

- If he hadn’t eaten the fruit, he could have had another woman and would have kept perfect !

- And the same for mankind !

- I don’t know why some assimilate eating the fruit with having sex !

- Of course, there is no difference between animals and human beings !

- To have children, they need to have sex !

- The Bible says Noah was 500 when he had children !

- It doesn’t say anything about sex or when he started having sex !

- When we look at Genesis 5, we are told that Adam became father of Seth when he was 130 but he had children before !

- If i use Biblehub, it’s only because it is an interlinear and you get a dictionary at the same time and they put God’s name in parenthesis (it’s better than nothing) !

- I have nothing to say about the translation !

- I want to be able to get the words in Hebrew and Greek !

- Then if I want to check, I can go wherever I want !

- Mary was a normal woman and itb was the same with her husband !

- She gets Jesus because of Yah.weh !

- But after that, she had sex with Joseph !

- And they had children !
 

JLG

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I was reading the very wonderful stories of the Bible posted by - " JLC " such great stories, especially the descriptive way that JLC details the events laid out in God’s word.

If we can go back to the post “ # 17 “ - about Sarai having no children, and Sarai telling Abram to have relations with her servant Agar to bear the promised, prophesied seed.

But how is this in any way reminiscent or reminding and simulating the situation of Elkanah, Samuel’s father and his two wives ! Can you please explain a little about why you believe that Abram and Sarai were making things “ more complicated! -

Or how they and also even Samuels father Elkanah and his wife Hannah were behaving really strange, strange , bizarre, weird or had made “ wrong “ decisions, also, how is their action especially opposing, resisting, combating or struggling and conflicting with God!

The Catholic and Protestant translations do depict this exact narrative, to cast polygamy marriage in a negative malevolence and as an evil and destructive marriage situation, however, these translations are changing and altering the manuscripts and changing what the Manuscripts are saying in their originality.

FOR EXAMPLE , - - if we go to Lev 18:18 The Catholic Douay Rheims translation

:18 Thou shalt not take thy wife's sister for a harlot, to rival her: neither shalt
thou discover her nakedness, while she is yet living.



The Jerome Latin Vulgate


:18 You shall not take your wife’s sister as a rival mistress; nor shall you uncover her nakedness, while your wife is still living.


The Protestant translations

:18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness,

beside the other in her life time.


We can see that all three of these mainstream translations somewhat differ in that one translation labels “ added polygamy wives “ - as harlots, prostitutes or hookers or perverted sexually immoral hussies,, who are rivals, opponent, challengers, enemies, and competitors with one another, - another translation, as mistresses which means ´” a sexual-intercourse with a man who is not her husband ”´

But let’s look at the original manuscripts.
”” Lev 18:18 - The original manuscripts “”

ואשׁה And a woman - אל־אחתה with her sister - לא do not - תקח take -
לצרר tsârar them gathered / them bundled - לגלות to uncover - ערותה her nakedness -

עליה upon her - בחייה׃ in her life.

:18 meaning = And a woman with her sister do not take

them
gathered / them bundled, to uncover her nakedness upon her in her life.

The Hebrew word - לצרר means = them gathered / them bundled -


this Hebrew word only appears “ ONE SINGLE TIME “ in the manuscripts as a third person pronoun, - representing ancient Hebrew

You can go to every single one of these total “ 16 “ online translation websites, you will find that the Hebrew word - לצרר means = to gather / to bundle -

AND NOT TO VEX OR TORMENT

1 https://translate.google.com
2 - 3 https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6887.htm
4 https://doitinhebrew.com/Translate/default.aspx?kb=IL+Hebrew+Phonetic
5 https://www.translate.com/hebrew-english
6 https://www.morfix.co.il/en/
7 https://www.onlinetranslationpro.com/hebrew-to-english-translation
8 https://stevemorse.org/hebrew/htrans.php or https://stevemorse.org/hebrew/trans.html?mode=hebrew
9 https://www.online-translator.com/translation/hebrew-english
10 https://www.bing.com/translator
11 https://languik.com/translation/hebrew-to-english-translator
12 https://translatiz.com/translation/hebrew-to-english
13 https://webtranslation.paralink.com/Hebrew-English-Translation/
14 https://translation2.paralink.com/Hebrew-English-Translation/
15 https://www.stars21.com/translator/hebrew_to_english.html
16
https://www.translator.eu/english/hebrew/translation/

The passage was explaining that relatives and family members, kin, “ blood / DNA related people “ were simply not supposed to be having children together and reproducing sexually with family members

As if - the wholesale acts of fathers having sex with their daughter - or grand - parents having sex with their grandchildren , this would not VEX and torment and cause distress ? BUT the passage is not detailing the context of personal FEELINGS and WAYS OF THINKING and ATTITUDES about sexual relationships, it is specifically dedicated to the describing the negative effects of crossbreeding, inbreeding, hereditary deformities - PROFANE DEFILED GENETIC incest - inborn births that cause disease and birth defects, stillbirths, infant mortality and a shorter life expectancy. children with severe diseases and disorders - that the land itself vomits out her defiled and polluted inhabitants.

The passage concluded the description of the situation of Genetic DNA Pollution and Confusion


Lev 18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.


the souls that commit this shall be cut off from among their people

Lev 18: 6 - 16 - Commands The Hebrews

To not have sexual intercourse with their relatives,
Daughters
with fathers
Sons
with mothers
Brothers with sisters - - half brother and half sister
Uncles
with nieces
Aunts
with nephews
Your brothers or your sisters
- husband or wife
Grandparents
with grandchildren
A wife
with her sister _ together in marriage.

:17 the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, ; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.

:19 a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.
:20 with thy neighbor’s wife, - to defile thyself with her.

EVEN IN A BIBLICAL MARRIAGE SYSTEM - WHERE PLURAL / POLYGAMY MARRIAGE WAS HOLY AND righteous in the eyes of God, a situation where relatives / blood related sisters who were married to the same man, this was also problematic, dangerous and damaging, leading to near future birth defects and weakening the society.

”” Lev 18:18 - The original manuscripts “”

ואשׁה And a woman - אל־אחתה with her sister - לא do not - תקח take -

לצרר tsârar them gathered / them bundled - לגלות to uncover - ערותה her

nakedness -
עליה upon her - בחייה׃ in her life.


The passage could have easily clearly, clearly, plainly, unmistakably and perfectly commanded that a man is forbidden from having multiple wives in polygamy / plural marriage, but the subject was about defilement of the DNA, genetic codes, diseases, deformities and weakening of society by related sisters being married and mass producing / creating offspring from one man . Having multiple numerous plural wives was never the abomination, defilement, evil and never the problem in the passage and never in the entire Bible is this mentioned as a problem for the God of the Bible.

There was something about related sisters sharing the seed or sperm of one single man that caused blood problems when producing offspring / life. The passage was not about condemning imaginations of VEXATION and ABUSE and TORMENT and HORROR and ANGUISH and distress about two sisters forced to marry the same man in polygamy marriage. In fact, for the last - 2500 years - the Hebrews had been marrying their relatives already , multiple sisters married to one man, daughters reproducing with their fathers, brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, Cain and Seth married many of their very own sisters.

My answer :

- Thanks for indicating the post !

- The precision helps a lot !

- Thanks also for the precision of the elements you give !

- Well, Sarah and Agar, on the one hand, Elkanah’s two wives, on the other hand !

- In fact, one man, two wives !

- It would be the same with one woman, two men !

- That’s natural competition !

- Same with children !

- Same with animals !

- Once again, I am just refering to what Yah.weh says in the beginning that is one man and one woman !

- And Jesus says exactly the same in the gospels !

- Now it is true that Yah.weh tolerated men having several women !

- But it meant problems because of natural competition !

- And once again it was to maintain the descendants !

- When giving birth, many women used to die !

- And same for children !

- But straight away after creation men started to deviate from Yah.weh’s commandments !

- And it was the same with Israel, Judah and mankind !

- And it will be the same till the coming of Yah.weh’s kingdom !
 

JLG

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50) Genesis 50


- Jacob is embalmed


- After 70 days of mourning, Joseph with all his brothers go to Canaan to bury their father!


- After that, they go back to Egypt!


- Joseph dies at the age of 110 then he is embalmed and put in a coffin in Egypt!
 

Speak Light

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.
we both would agree that - Divorce and putting away of a wife was considered abomination and evil in the eyes of God, when there is no justful cause or reason

when a man puts away his wife for no cause, God considers this as an act of violence

as -
Mal 2: - :16 ....... he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment

this Hebrew word " VIOLENCE " is the word - חָמָס - châmâs - khaw-mawce'
Meaning = violence; cruel (-ty), damage, false, injustice, as the oppressor, , violence (against

this is a very Evil situation, this is also the word used in -
Gen 6:11 In Noah's time - . the earth was filled with violence.
. :13 ........... the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Eze 7:23 Make a chain: for the land is full of bloody crimes, and the city is full of violence.

This same Hebrew word { חָמָס - châmâs } is used in the following passage

Mal 2:14
Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.

:16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: / " divorse " for one covereth
{ חָמָס - châmâs } violence with his garment .......................
 

JLG

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.
we both would agree that - Divorce and putting away of a wife was considered abomination and evil in the eyes of God, when there is no justful cause or reason

when a man puts away his wife for no cause, God considers this as an act of violence

as -
Mal 2: - :16 ....... he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment

this Hebrew word " VIOLENCE " is the word - חָמָס - châmâs - khaw-mawce'
Meaning = violence; cruel (-ty), damage, false, injustice, as the oppressor, , violence (against

this is a very Evil situation, this is also the word used in -
Gen 6:11 In Noah's time - . the earth was filled with violence.
. :13 ........... the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Eze 7:23 Make a chain: for the land is full of bloody crimes, and the city is full of violence.

This same Hebrew word { חָמָס - châmâs } is used in the following passage

Mal 2:14
Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.

:16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: / " divorse " for one covereth
{ חָמָס - châmâs } violence with his garment .......................
- Well, Matthew 5:31,32 gives a good summary!
- first, we get a corrupt practice among the Israelites through a certificate of divorce without any reason (Matthew 5:31)!
- Second, the only possibility for a Christian that is sexual immorality (Matthew 5:32)!
 

JLG

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__________________________________________________________________________

EXODUS 3:15

YAH.WEH THE GOD OF YOUR FATHERS – THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB – HAS SENT ME TO YOU.
THIS IS MY NAME FOREVER, AND THIS IS HOW I AM TO BE REMEMBERED IN EVERY GENERATION IN EVERY GENERATION.

__________________________________________________________________________

Remember:

  • If you think like today’s people, you will never understand the Bible!
  • They used to write differently!
  • They used to speak differently!
  • They used to think differently!
  • They used to act differently!
__________________________________________________________________________

Remember:

Biblical Hebrew has a very small number of words, about 8,000, and around 1,700 of those words are hapax legomena (being said once) in the Hebrew Bible. Modern Hebrew has about 100,000 words. For comparison modern English has over 450,000 words, and Spanish has just over 175,000 words. Standard English dictionaries typically have about 200,000 words, whereas Spanish dictionaries have about 80,000 words.

This means words often have multiple meanings determined by context.

Although yom is commonly rendered as day in English translations, the word yom can be used in different ways to refer to different time spans:


  • Point of time (a specific day)
  • time period of a whole or half a day:
    • Period of light (as contrasted with the period of darkness),
    • Sunrise to sunset
    • Sunset to next sunset
  • General term for time ( as in 'days of our lives')
  • A year "lived a lot of days"
  • Time period of unspecified length. "days and days"
__________________________________________________________________________

The Greek language is ranked as the richest in the world with 5 million words and 70 million word types. According to Dr. MacDonald, only 600,000 Greek words are used today, making the Greek vocabulary the largest in the world and 3.5 times bigger than the English vocabulary.

Though there are 138,607 words in the Greek New Testament, only 5,394 are unique.

__________________________________________________________________________
 

JLG

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1) ADAM

- He was made in God’s image !

- He had in subjection all the animals on the earth !

- He could speak to God face-to-face!

- He was blessed by God !

- He was to fill the earth !

- He could have lived forever !

- He was made out of dust !

- He was put into a paradise !

- He could eat from every tree except one !

- He could do whatever he wanted, recognizing God’s authority !

- Refusing this authority would mean death !

- The devil said if you eat from the tree of knowledge you will become like God !

- You won’t die !

- But they died !

- In fact, he showed humanity the way to disobey God and to death !

- Only individuals stayed faithful to God !
 

Speak Light

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.
I hope you will find the courage to reconsider that the popular imaginative fantasy that pretends that plural marriage as God has intended

is behaving really strange, bizarre, weird or as “ wrong “ decisions.

And that God is not hinting or winking and signaling and whispering that we should regard Sarai telling Abram to have relations with her servant Agar is somehow reminiscent or reminding us of the situation regarding Elkanah, " Samuel’s father " and his two wives Hannah and Peninnah

A basic traditional biblical family is never ever in any way regarded as behaving really strange, bizarre, weird or as “ wrong “ decisions.

When the husband has relations with another man’s wife or divorces or puts away his wife for no reasonable or just cause
for no good reason, the man is also guilt of causing his wife to commit adultery.


Mat 5: :32 ........... whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committed adultery.


:33 ................. perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

The Man is CAUSING HER TO COMMIT ADULTERY by leaving her and forcing her to marry another.

Jesus did not need to directly address polygamy / plural marriage – He began The foundation of His ministry at the Very beginning teaching The Polygamy message - The Symbolic - Polygamy message and eXample of the Kingdom Of God. the Church / Believers are in a spiritual polygamous relationship with Him.

There was never any question or doubt that God or Jesus had a disagreement with polygamy.

Yaahoshua Himself set a polygamy eXample for God people to be symbolized as a spiritual polygamous marriage where all of Gods people are His bride and HE alone is the ONLY Husband of all His spiritual wives / bride. This was one of His first messages that He taught from the beginning of His ministry, none of his disciples be in any doubt whatsoever about polygamy?


This Polygamy PLAN - is CALLED SPIRITUAL obedience and PERFECTION of Gods marriage and it is Gods single and ONLY Plan - Any other idea outside of this SPIRITUAL POLYGAMY IDEA - is nothing but spiritual fornication and rejected by God . The doubt is all The imagination of others who place their private emotional feelings onto the terms of morality that they envision should be between the lines they draw outside of the Bible.

Mat 19:9 λεγω Saying - δε also - υμιν you - οτι that -

ος whom - αν would - απολυση put away -

την this - γυναικα wife - αυτου herself - ει if

μη not - επι for - πορνεια fornication -

και and - γαμηση mary - αλλην another ,, -

μοιχαται commits adultery - και and - ο she -

απολελυμενην whom is put away - γαμησας marys another -

μοιχαται commits adultery



:10 λεγουσιν saying - αυτω they - οι the - μαθηται disciples

αυτου them - ει if - ουτως are the same - εστιν it is -

η the - αιτια reason - του that - ανθρωπου mankind

μετα with - της this - γυναικος woman - ου are not -

συμφερει profitable - γαμησαι to marry



:10 saying they the disciples, them if are the same, it is the reason that mankind with this woman are not profitable to marry

In other words, the disciples were saying that they understood -
that BOTH MEN, and all mankind - in reality are the same in their guilt of committing adultery -if they involve this woman in marriage - the man who put her away for no reason. He is guilty and the man who married her again is again committing adultery - and none of mankind, man / men should continue to marry and engage in any further marriages regarding this woman.

The disciples were explaining that the man leaving his good wife has caused all of mankind to be unable to resolve the poor woman in marriage, and that applies to anyone involved with this woman thereafter,

in other words, the man who leaves his wife for no good cause and then takes another wife - he is committing adultery

- and the man who marries the woman who was left by this husband is also committing adultery.
Jesus goes on to explain and mention that it is better that some man remain as the eunuch and never marry again - especially if he leaves this wife

It would be like, God himself divorcing and rejecting a Christian whom is saved - and
the Godly Christian believer has done nothing wrong to be rejected by God, and then, and God goes and begins accepting new converts and new Christians while rejecting and throwing out the Christians who are saved and living Godly lives.

God should then cease from being a faithful and moral God - just as the eunuchs who have ceased in their marital relations.


God is moral and just and a righteous God because he loves and accepts all of his many many wives, all of his bride , God is a just and moral husband.
 
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JLG

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- My answer :

- Let’s be clear !

- Being a Christian has nothing to do with being an Israelite !

- From the beginning the Israelites opposed Yah.weh !

- They had a bad end !

- We can say the same with many people who say they are Christians !

- If they oppose Yah.weh, they will have a bad end !

- Polygamy has nothing to do with being a Christian !
 

Speak Light

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P L E A S E

Take into your mind that the New Testament was not translated into another Language until nearly 2000 years after it was written.

Let’s consider -
that - Paul and Timothy’s writings in the manuscripts - are a bit different from Paul and Timothy’s writings in the translations ..

Remember - Paul and Timothy are writing in ancient Greek - nearly 2000 years before the SYSTEM of
“ Church of Rome and the Church of England “ 1400s

Let’s take a simple look at the original Greek


1Ti 5 : 3 Honour widows that are widows indeed.


:9
Χηρα A Widow - καταλεγεσθω about whom is said - μη not -
ελαττον younger than / lesser - ετων years - εξηκοντα of sixty -
γεγονυια being / existing as / - ενος one / singular - ανδρος husbands - γυνη wife.
Meaning

:9 “ A Widow about whom is said whom is younger than / lesser of being / existing as / - one / singular husbands wife.
:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good works

Then, the author quickly jumps to another scenario – situation or situation
1Ti 5:11 νεωτερας Young - δε also - χηρας widows -

παραιτου decline - οταν when - γαρ for -

καταστρηνιασωσιν about whom lived luxuriously - του of -

χριστου the anointing - γαμειν marry - θελουσιν they desire / please.


Meaning - = When that a younger woman whom is a widow and she had previously lived a luxurious and blessed or good quality and pleasant life, they - ( these younger widows themselves ) - they will tend to refuse or reject immediately getting married again = the young widow will decline re –marriage.


Paul is not here casting a negative, judgmental, critical, negative narratives and DAMNATIONS OF JUDGMENTS in these passages - REMEMBER - when St. Paul is writing to the Churches, he is saying sometimes - that this message or opinion is not “ FROM THE LORD “ but this is simply what I feel or think.


Paul and Timothy’s teachings - are often simply a situation in the “ MANUSCRIPTS “ where Paul and Timothy are laying out crude and rudimentary BASIC UNDEVELOPED distant scenarios - and situations that he is noticing in the churches

Paul and Timothy’s writings in the manuscripts - are different from Paul and Timothy’s writings in the translations .




Paul and Timothy are writing “ Outlines “ quick rundowns, - fast “ jumping “ - sketches and vague summaries and synopsis about many, many various IMPORTANT multiple situations that are in the GREEK MANUSCRIPTS that are NOT

- not denoting definitive, ultimate, authoritative and critical, decisive conclusions.

These are often not conclusions in the manuscripts - THE TRANSLATORS OFTENTIMES
INJECT AND INSERT or INFUSE and “ I N T E R W E A V E “ connections and conclusions that mold and conform to their OWN personal - societal , community church situation………… or ideology.



:12 εχουσαι Having - κριμα judgment - οτι because / that

την her / the - πρωτην first - πιστιν faith -

ηθετησαν is annulled / declared invalid / rejected.


Meaning -= that a younger woman whose husband had just recently died COULD feel , COULD experience, COULD suffer, COULD go through, - COULD hurt and feel that her judgment about re – marring so soon is jeopardized by her feelings of judgment about a new husband, even her first faith in Christ _ The Lord Jesus “ seems annulled / invalid and she feels feelings of rejection concerning her own FEELINGS OF FAITH in God and about the Church and about re - marriage,.


Paul and Timothy are explaining these situations in the church in a “ fast paced “ jumbled - unorganized NON JUDGMENAL conditional and overlapping writing style.

NOT commanding anyone to reject or not marry - but simply explaining the situation of how widows feel.


The Translators simply delete and ignore all of this and invent another narrative that is simply not in the original manuscript.

waiting for nearly 2000 years to translate an ancient book into another language -
unless we go to the original, we are only relying upon the inspiration of a 15 th century " COPY CAT " of the Church of Rome...

the KJV is nothing more than " COPY CAT " of the Catholic Church translation - word for word, the Protestants only were concerned with correcting the errors in which disagreed with protestant Church doctrine...... the protestants left everything else nearly exactly as their mother Rome had translated...............

the Protestants who translated had not broken away from the Roman Church no more than a single generation - to the time they had produced the KJV - a permit Bible- a BIBLE PERMIT - which says that

Polygamy has nothing to do with being a Christian !

but the original manuscripts say much about having another wife.
 
Last edited:

JLG

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1)

- My answer : It is a really interesting point and it shows the importance to be careful to every detail !

- That’s why I really appreciate Biblehub because it is not only an interlinear version it is at the same time a dictionary and it gives detail about grammar !

- 1 Timothy 5:3







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τίμα (tima)
Verb - Present Imperative Active - 2nd Person Singular
Strong's 5091: From timios; to prize, i.e. Fix a valuation upon; by implication, to revere.

[the] widows
Χήρας (Chēras)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Plural
Strong's 5503: Feminine of a presumed derivative apparently from the base of chasma through the idea of deficiency; a widow, literally or figuratively.

who [are]
τὰς (tas)
Article - Accusative Feminine Plural
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

truly
ὄντως (ontōs)
Adverb
Strong's 3689: Really, truly, actually. Adverb of the oblique cases of on; really.

[in need].
χήρας (chēras)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Plural
Strong's 5503: Feminine of a presumed derivative apparently from the base of chasma through the idea of deficiency; a widow, literally or figuratively.

- It corresponds to Acts chapter 6 and the distribution of food to widows !
 
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