• We strive to be a place where there can be honest discussion, debate and fellowship. The rules are few so you can speak your mind. We know we are living in tough times and we hope to share answers and help with each other. Please join us.

Is Jesus 'a god' or God?

CoreIssue

CoreIssue

Administrator
Staff member
Jehovah's Witnesses do not like to make definitive public statements on who Jesus was and is. So, here is what they believe:
  • Michael the Archangel is the first and only creation of God.
  • Michael created everything else
  • Michael became Jesus when incarnated
  • When he resurrected he was once again Micheal
  • Jesus as 'a god,' not 'God.'
For more, here is a good source.
 
A Human can never be GOD, And Jesus was a human who ate & did what all humans do. But the Almighty can give certain powers to any Human.

Remember what happen to Moses when he asked God to manifest God to him.

There is only One God and he rules the Universe by his command. Jesus will return to earth and inform all humans this same message.
 
I don't believe the human flesh of Jesus is God.

His flesh is fully human and his spirit fully God.

Neither can human flesh be an angel, either. Yet, you believe Jesus was Micheal the Archangel.
 
JohnDefoe said:
A Human can never be GOD, And Jesus was a human who ate & did what all humans do. But the Almighty can give certain powers to any Human.

Remember what happen to Moses when he asked God to manifest God to him.

There is only One God and he rules the Universe by his command. Jesus will return to earth and inform all humans this same message.
Click to expand...

Exodus 25:8-9

And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them. According to all that I shew thee, [after] the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make [it].

In Exodus God came down and dwelt with His people Israel. The tabernacle was constructed as a buffer between sinful man and a Holy God. God is Holy, man is lawless. Israelites dropped like flies not knowing the true character of God. It was not a pretty sight. That was a part of the lesson we were to learn from it all.

In the New Testament you have God taking on humanity. He "tabernacled" among His people. He took on the form of a servant, left the blinding Glory behind and came here to work.

You may choose to not believe it. You may not like it. That does not change the fact that it happened.

:bible:
 
I made a big mistake here. JohnDefoe is a Muslim, not a JW.

This part of my statement remains accurate.
I don't believe the human flesh of Jesus is God.

His flesh is fully human and his spirit fully God.
Click to expand...
 
I google John Defoe and came up with nuttin'.
Where get I learn about John Defoe and do I really need to learn about Mr. Defoe?
 
Well, I think that most of the confusion there is due to the fact that they just don't believe in the Trinity. Jesus is supposed to be a member of the Godhead who condescended to accept humanity to the point of taking the form of a a man and living as one. I know Michael is mentioned in the Bible, but he's described as an angel, and angels are created, while Jesus wasn't. He was begotten of the Father, which is different. Michael certainly isn't the first and only creation, there are even other angels in the Bible described as created. That argument about what God did and didn't create gets extremely technical, if you take the Bible literally the first thing God created was light. There were then six more days. Actually, the narrative doesn't even go into the origin of the angelic beings, the certainly appear prominently in the book, but mostly its actually about human history, you could almost say world history, and to be specific, it's primarily about Israel, we also speak of Spiritual Israel in our times.
 
clark thompson said:
Them believing Jesus is a god created by God is not very good thinking, in a way it says that God created Jesus to be a pagan deity. Jesus is Lord and above all creation because He made it, He is God in the flesh.
Click to expand...
You know what I think is up with that, it's the fact that the way they are with the identity of God, it's just Aryanism. Arius, the Bishop of Rome during the first century, had a few points in his favor at that time and in that place. One of them was that he was very anti Manachee, and what that means is that he didn't believe in Gnostic dualism. Just in case you still don't know what that is, it's seeing God as being like the force from Star Wars, having both good and evil within his nature. What's going on with them is that they are repeating the person's argument that there is just one God, but at that time and in that context, what Arius actually was, was an early Roman protestant. And for him, being an educated Roman himself, that just means that he was a plaintiff. He was a Roman citizen and he had an argument that the worship of Jesus should be legal. He protested the illegality of worshiping Christ before the days of the Edict of Constantine, in other words.
 
The fundamental problem with the Watchtower Society as I see it is not that "their theology is false", it's really more complicated than that. That there is only one God is non false, and inasmuch as they say that they worship Jehovah ("an invisible creator spirit") as the only God, sure. The obvious actual spiritual problem with them is that they are militantly non Christian and have rejected Christ out of hand, which was not the fundamental theological point that the original historical Arius was making. The problem with them is that they are an out of place artifact in religion, they're like the society for creative anachronism. I know how common and offensive it is to claim that this or that church is behind the times, and not modern enough, but in this case that's true. They're very atavistic, and trying to revive a belief system that had outlived it's time and been refuted, overturned and superseded by 333AD. I'm not sure what their motive is, but two things I do know about them are that they formed during the American Civil War and they they have never had a profit, the books are written by a committee, and there are some other issues. One thing a lot of people don't know about the Civil War is that the North (Russell was from New York) was Napoleonic in the extreme, and that Napoleon and his scribblers developed the "Great Man Theory" of history, which America officially embraces and teaches in it's schools. Their Tract "The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived" on the life of the "man" Jesus, offends Christians by denying the divinity of Christ, while to a secular mainstream American historian, it is merely a Napoleonic tract soft pedaled as religion, and while accepting the Napoleonic terror in France and World War caused by Napoleon, smiles and says, well, Jesus was the greatest man. The society is obviously very dangerous, they are committed to preventing citizens from defending themselves, and detrimental to national defense in that they deny the right of the country to defend itself, practicing a militant anti militarism that is almost exactly like armed terrorism, except that it's basically a passive aggressive reverse terrorism. Jehovah's Witnessing is more than just false or narrow minded, it's an actual danger to state security, a "lay down and die" martyr cult which, being un Christian, also excludes the idea of forgiveness. And there is a lot more I can say about it.
 
Heather Frank said:
Well, I think that most of the confusion there is due to the fact that they just don't believe in the Trinity. Jesus is supposed to be a member of the Godhead who condescended to accept humanity to the point of taking the form of a a man and living as one. I know Michael is mentioned in the Bible, but he's described as an angel, and angels are created, while Jesus wasn't. He was begotten of the Father, which is different. Michael certainly isn't the first and only creation, there are even other angels in the Bible described as created. That argument about what God did and didn't create gets extremely technical, if you take the Bible literally the first thing God created was light. There were then six more days. Actually, the narrative doesn't even go into the origin of the angelic beings, the certainly appear prominently in the book, but mostly its actually about human history, you could almost say world history, and to be specific, it's primarily about Israel, we also speak of Spiritual Israel in our times.
Click to expand...
Verse one says the first Thing created was heaven, singular, and the earth. http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/index.php?threads/pre-adamic-creation.2882/#post-27665
 
That's right, it does. One think I've run across that's hugely popular is some people who get very into the second verse, and try to understand what the Earth void and without form was, and the darkness upon the face of the deep before and while the spirit was moving in verse two. Jungians are like that, the psychology crowd. They spend a lot of time on things that are in the Bible, and that you therefore have to think of as literally true and presume to exist, but which you wouldn't be a ble to touch or photograph if you ran across them. Well, like the dreams.
 
Read the link, the Hebrew is literally defined in the OT. It is literally true. The Bible is quite clear the Angels were created before because they were witness to the creation of the earth. Read the link.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top