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Do We Still Have A Sin Nature...

Peterlag

New Member
The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." The book of Romans begins talking about Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after the book of Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught that I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to them who are into or know the law. And then by the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh.

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art.

In the book of Colossians, we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get the book of Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."
 
The spirit is washed clean, nut not the flesh until the resurrection, thus the war of our two natures in our soul.
 
The spirit is washed clean, nut not the flesh until the resurrection, thus the war of our two natures in our soul.
It's not the body, but the spirit that has become a new creature. In other words, it's in the spirit that we have become a brand-new species because our spirit is totally new and therefore there is not an old sin nature left in us. We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian. I know this comes as a complete shock to many of you who have been indoctrinated in the-old-nature-versus-the-new-nature theology. Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature. They believe they have two natures.
 
Think of it this way. God the Father is our divine Judge. When Jesus died, he was our perfect Substitute on the cross to take our just "guilty" verdict on himself and to give us the Father's "not-guilty" verdict and give us a right standing before him as believers. That is what "already" has happened for us when we first believed. Such teaching is found in the first chapters of Paul's letters.

However, even though the "already" of the gospel has happened, we remain sinful, but the Holy Spirit, the third Person of God along with Jesus and the Father as our one God, works in our "not-yet-perfect" lives (shown by the many commands in the second half of Paul's letters) with our willing cooperation to give us spiritual progress to become more and more like God.
 
our spirits become sin free but our flesh still sins, called the war of 2 natures
The Bible doesn't separate us like that. Our spirits are still tempted and tainted with sin, but sin and Satan no longer control us. The Holy Spirit controls us, but our sin nature tempts us, and we--spirit and flesh--can listen and fall into sin. Besides, our inner, human natures get impatient, impulsive, annoyed, irritated in self-centered ways, which are also sinful. Self-centeredness is the definition of sin. Those sins must be overcome by God too, as he uses Jesus' victory to enable us through his Word and our prayers.
 
no, our spirits are cleansed at salvation, our flesh not until the resurrection.
Then, why did Paul, Peter, Jesus, and James give believers so many commands to overcome the flesh and replace it with the new nature qualities? Look at the ends of most of the letters and the Sermon on the Mount.
 
Does not say we will succeed.
But we can make spiritual progress to be more usable to God in advancing his church. Look at Colossians 3:1 to see that Jesus' resurrection is the basis for God's commands through Paul in the rest of the letter. It's in Jesus' power that we can have his victories over the devil and to obey the Father better.
 
sanctification reside in Christ, not church
Sanctification means "becoming better saints," while already being saints. Jesus is already perfect; he doesn't need to become more holy. The New Testament has an abundance of commands for the saints, who need to grow up from baby-saints to mature ones:

Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.
Eph 4:15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,
Eph 4:16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
 
commands? no, blessings.
Ah, but I have the following list of the New Testament commands for us to strive in becoming more saintly. There are a lot of them, but I'll just list the Colossians (chapter 3)
no, our spirits are cleansed at salvation, our flesh not until the resurrection.
commands based on Jesus' resurrection (3:1) for true believers. If you want the whole list, let me know, and I'll send it to you here.

Vices to be given up:

sexual immorality,

impurity,

passion,

evil desire,

covetousness, which is idolatry

anger,

wrath,

malice,

slander,

avoid obscene talk

Do not lie to one another


Virtues to be acquired more and more:

seek heavenly things

speak the truth

put on the new self to be like God

holiness

compassion

kindness

humility

meekness

patience

bearing with one another

forgive each other instead of complaining

put on love for harmony

let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts

thankfulness

being rich in the word of Christ

singing to praise the Lord

doing everything in the Lord Jesus

wives submitting to their husbands' leadership

husbands loving their wives as Christ loved the church

children obeying their parents

parents not provoking their children

slaves (employees) obeying masters (bosses)

masters (bosses) acting fairly with slaves (employees)

persistent praying with thanksgiving

walking in wisdom with everyone

giving gracious speech
 
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Taking some time to carefully read what you were saying, i enjoyed even listened to your words using a voice narrator

and am strengthened by reading the wonderful way you explain the " Sin Nature "



I do see that there is a " Sin Nature " in all human beings and scriptures explain this is details,

Eph 4:17 " Sin Nature " is caused by walking in the vanity of their mind,
- Having the understanding darkened,
being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them,
because of the blindness of their heart:

Roman Catholicism is the Religious Institution that coined or invented the idea of " ORIGINAL SIN "

although you are just explaining the remedy of sin " Sin Nature " from the Scriptures . . . .

Rome does this in a very different way seeking to
redefine both the very meanings of both the effect of Original Sin and also the remedy for Original Sin "

✣ ✦ Rome hides the fact that it silently teaches that " Original Sin " is something that is ✦ SPIRITUALLY INBRED, SPIRITUALLY and MENTALLY INHERITED, directly, specifically through the act of LUST, through PASSION, FERTILIZATION and PENETRATION in a sexual physical experience

this sex passion alone causes a spiritual curse that is also spiritually damaging and destructive and caustic as a spiritual curse upon the offspring and those engaging in sexual acts as husband and wife.


✣ ✣ Rome teaches that " Original Sin " is something that is also " spiritually " passed down from Adam and Eve....

but the Scriptures explain the " Sin Nature " as ------ not a result of something that is passed down through genetic mutation and as a result of the DNA from Adams mistakes

also

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind
by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled the alienation from God -

sin nature in the Bible is a result of ignorance and and wicked works and being blinded in their hearts and following after ones own lusts and desires.


the Bible does teach that " original sin " is the caustic effect that death and corruption in our bodies that reigns over man


this is the way the scripture explains the concept of the original sin, - not in making the claim that the sin of Adam has alienated and separated man from God -

it is man himself that separates himself from God by wicked works and by free will we are given a " Sin Nature "

Adam's curse of death was a curse that he would die by natural causes - within his BODY - not a death that was caused by SPIRITUAL
CAUSES -

The curse of his sin caused a breakdown his body the immunity, DNA of his body - Genetic Genome - CELL PRODUCTION



Rome seeks to redefine both the very meanings of both the effect of Original Sin and also the remedy for Original Sin "

✣ ✦ Rome hides the fact that it silently teaches that " Original Sin " is something that is ✦ SPIRITUALLY INBRED, SPIRITUALLY MENTALLY INHERITED, as through the act of LUST, through PASSION, FERTILIZATION and PENETRATION this sex passion alone causes a spiritual curse that is also spiritually damaging and destructive and caustic as a spiritual curse upon the offspring.

✣ ✣ Rome teaches that " Original Sin " is something that is also " spiritually " passed down from Adam and Eve.... by the act of sexual penetration.............. lust, desire, passion and sharing bodily fluids,.


in fact - had Mother Mary went on to have children with her husband and had sexual intercourse, she then would have never had been assumed up into heaven

nor would be a Catholic mediator - nor Queen of heaven

in Catholic mythconception
 


I was really thinking of this for a long time and having this discussion of the Catholic concept of " Original Sin...
with a few Catholic friends online.
I believe if we take this Roman Catholic concept of " Original Sin.... for what it means in Catholicism itself, we would find that this is not the same as the " sin nature " that we find described in Scripture that all humans have within them due to temptation, weakness and misguided training as a child and pressures of others who are yielding to the nature of sin...

I know that this topic can really get in depth with many ideas that we can think of on our own.....

but.......

does the Bible truly show or teach that Adam's sin caused or ignited or began a
" SIN NATURE " within
himself ?
meaning___ = did this" Original Sin " or very first time he disobeyed God - in this one single disobedient act, alone, begin a : sin nature : to developed and suddenly arise within himself that did not exist before he sinned ?
I simply do not find that this is taught in the Bible on a " Spiritual Level but rather it is a natural physical sin nature that caused the unavoidable and unpreventable reality that the physical nature / physical body / natural body would die

God sought to reconcile us and teach us how to live a long and prosperous and healthy life by removing all sin and unhealthy living practices from our lives and how to not infect and bring symptoms, diseases and sickness and weakness of health and harm others but the " physical sin nature " was solidified and permanent in the body that all mankind is appointed once to physically die.

BUT THE SPIRIT WILL NOT DIE, EVEN THOUGH THE BODY BE CORRUPTED BY SIN AND FILLED WITH DEATH
GOD SEEKS TO UNITE OUR SPIRIT WITH HIM THAT WE MAY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE IN A NEW UNCORRUPTABLE BODY WITHOUT THE PHYSICAL NATURAL
SIN NATURE.
can we say that a spirit is always tempted to sin and this is simply the way God created humans and angels, to be given " Free Will " to choose.?

is a spirit is created with ability to make a choice of whether or not to obey and submit - or to deny the will of God.?

Roman Catholicism takes the action of " Original Sin " and incorporates this into a lust and sex act whereby one can completely be free of " Original Sin " if God cleanses and purifies the fertilization during sexual intercourse and the female offspring remains completely free of all acts of sexuality for her entire lifetime....

would a Catholic God conclude that a man / male is free of " Original Sin " if the male's parents also had their fertilization and sexual union purified and sanitized while having intimacy that produces a male - - or does this sperm and egg sanitation and purification only apply to females who are conceived ?

to free only a female of " Original Sin " ?

" Original Sin " was a development in the Catholic Church that began from the idea that Eve had sexual relations with either Adam or the Serpent or both , and this sex act was the " Original Sin " eventually the teaching faded from the Catholic Church and disappeared but the concept of sexual virginity linked to " Original Sin " stayed as an unbreakable tradition without its original foundation .... of the Catholic doctrine of the Serpent Seed, or Sex with Adam or both Adam and the Serpent together was the " " Original Sin "

traditions are just traditions in Catholicism and can endure forever even though the original foundation of the tradition can vanish, the tradition keeps evolving.

Meaning = the Catholic Church, itself, Catholic teaching did not teach the " Serpent Seed " from the chair of St Peter and in fact the Catholic Church denounced and condemned the teaching, but Catholic TRADITION took ahold and developed, formed as traditions, culture and symbolism and the teaching was then blended and mixed with paganism, as Catholicism does with all of the Bible.

this is how tradition evolves as an unbiblical winding road that crosses all paths
 
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Perhaps Original Sin is something that has different meanings to many different types of people

please notice the passage about the tree of life

Gen 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

some people as myself are only interested in defining " Original Sin " from its meaning from a Biblical perspective, but the fact is the term or phrase " Original Sin " simply does not exist in the bible anywhere but it simply understood as the explanation of the sin result of Adam and Eve that brought death and decay into the world.

Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden Of Eden for the purpose of partaking of the tree of life. The Garden was a secluded area where they were under protection and where food was grown that nourished them without the toxins and poisons and dangers of the fruits and edible plants outside the garden./....... but they chose to eat of the tree of knowledge and were cast out of the garden and were punished because they disobeyed and gave in to the temptation of the " Sin Nature " they were created with as - free will...
 
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When dealing with the subject of " Original Sin " the Islamic Quran and Hadith are in total contradiction with one another in the attempt made
by Muslims throughout the last 1500 years to discredit and challenge and snuff out the Biblical truth.,


Please notice the foolishness and complete perversity of the Quran and Islam is how that it teaches that Adam was a prophet of God,


yet ............................. Islam's absurdity attributed to this " SO CALLED " noble prophet called Adam, is how that " Islam's Prophet " Adam just as Mohammud performed no miracles and had no truthful prophecy, in fact in the Quran, Adam sinned against God and was cast out of paradise thus causing all of the rest of humanity after Adam to also be cast out of paradise.

Islam is a jumbled mix of inaccurate and foolish contradictions that are designed to lie and dishonestly misrepresent and pervert the Bible.

for example the
Bible honestly explains that Adam's sin caused the rest of the world to suffer and loose their privilege to the life that God intended for man in the beginning

seems very simple, right ?

but the
Quran and Muslims come along and in a failed attempt to paint the Bible as untruthful and corrupted, the Quran attempts to convince the reader that Adam sinned but he repented and was forgiven........ then Islam teaches that Adam's sin was a personal mistake, - - - not a taint or a sin of consequence passed on to all human beings.

but then Muslims begin to present Hadith saying that Adam lived almost
1000 years old
Muslims begin to present Hadith saying that Adam was almost
100 feet tall

the Islamic Prophet Adam lived in a paradise, he was
100 feet tall and he lived 1000 years but when he sinned he was removed from his paradise

this is the complete foolishness of Islam and the intellectual dishonesty they present,

the very fact that humans no longer are no longer was
100 feet tall and no longer live to be 1000 years and humans have been thrown out of Paradise just as Adam, this is the very definition and cause and effect and the consequence and the very taint of Adams mistake and sin being passed on to humans .


Muslims present all of this information that portrays a similar storyline found in the Bible pertaining to a whole list of things that Adam and Eve lost and how they were before they were thrown out of Paradise then want people to believe that - Adam's sin was a personal mistake, not a taint nor any consequence passed on to all human beings.

this is the ridiculous and absurd foolishness that we see all across the world of Islam, they do not understand that the doctrine of " Original Sin " is a
Roman Catholic doctrine and not a doctrine that is a part of the Bible but Muslims foolishly attempt to explain the " Original Sin " but then demand that Adam's sin was a personal mistake,- - - and not a taint or a sin of consequence passed on to all human beings.

The Quran teaches that while in Paradise Adam and Eve lived in complete comfort, free from hunger, thirst, fatigue, or heat.

yet when the Bible says that Adam and Eves sin and mistake caused all of humans afterwards to be under the curse or effect of hunger, thirst, fatigue, and heat and no longer living long lives and under a curse of being removed from Paradise
- the Muslim demands that this is an error in the Bible. - while the Quran says the same exact thing about Adam and Eve and the cause and effect of being thrown out of Paradise.

this is the mentality of the Muslim, they simply have no truth, just a complete distain for Gods word and for the truth. There is no attempt by Muslims or Catholics to study the Bible and truly define the idea and consequence and remedy for the curse of sin.

instead, Catholics and Muslims attempt to alter the Bible and insert new teachings that contradict both themselves and the bible
 
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