The firmament?

[vagabond]

Just wondering if anyone has a take on the "firmament" spoken of in Gen.1:6)?

[CoreIssue]

Pre-Adamic thread.

[vagabond]

Couldn't find the thread "Pre-Adamic". I checked the three pages provided in the "Bible study section".

[vagabond]

Found it, thanks.

[vagabond]

You may have to move this thread, because I have to ask, is the firmament just an expansion, or is/was it solid, and did/does it have water above it?

[CoreIssue]

You may have to move this thread, because I have to ask, is the firmament just an expansion, or is/was it solid, and did/does it have water above it?
NIV 6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

6Then God said, "Let there be an (M (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-6M))expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
7God made the [c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%201&version=NASB#fen-NASB-7c)]expanse, and separated (N (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-7N))the waters which were below the expanse from the waters (O (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-7O))which were above the expanse; and it was so.
8God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
9Then God said, "(P (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-9P))Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let (Q (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-9Q))the dry land appear"; and it was so.
10God called the dry land earth, and the (R (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-10R))gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.

Strong's Number: 08064 Browse Lexicon (http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/browse.cgi?number=8064&version=kjv) Original WordWord Origin ~ymXfrom an unused root meaning to be lofty Transliterated WordTDNT (http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=08064&version=kjv#Legend) Entry ShamayimTWOT - 2407a Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech shaw-mah'-yim Noun Masculine Definition

heaven, heavens, sky

visible heavens, sky

as abode of the stars
as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc


Heaven (as the abode of God)




After the destruction of Genesis 1:2 everything was chaos. Water vapor everywhere, land destroyed and submerged in water.

He created the system of water as clouds above and ocean below. Then he further divided the ocean by forming dry land, then what is called Pangaea by some.

There are 3 heavens; the sky, outer space and the dwelling place of God. The sky is the First Heaven.

[vagabond]

Thanks Core, I'm using the 'blue letter bible' tool to search. When I searched the NIV version and asked to show the strongs #'s this box popped up:
Show Strong's Numbers http://christiantalkzone.net/gifs/popwin/close-b.gif
The ability to show Strong's numbers is only available when viewing the KJV or NASB translations. When using one of these translations, you may check the Show Strong's box here to display direct links to our lexicon information. You may toggle the check box on or off to meet your study needs.
View these results in the KJV (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=8064&t=KJV&sstr=1&Page=1) or NASB (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=8064&t=NASB&sstr=1&Page=1).



The KJV shows another word being used: strongs h7549-
1) extended surface (solid), expanse, firmament
a) expanse (flat as base, support)
b) firmament (of vault of heaven supporting waters above)
1) considered by Hebrews as solid and supporting 'waters' above

I'm sure you've come across this before, how does one decide which one is right?

The clouds then would be the water above the expanse if one goes with the NIV version?

[CoreIssue]

Thanks Core, I'm using the 'blue letter bible' tool to search. When I searched the NIV version and asked to show the strongs #'s this box popped up:
Show Strong's Numbers http://christiantalkzone.net/gifs/popwin/close-b.gif
The ability to show Strong's numbers is only available when viewing the KJV or NASB translations. When using one of these translations, you may check the Show Strong's box here to display direct links to our lexicon information. You may toggle the check box on or off to meet your study needs.
View these results in the KJV (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=8064&t=KJV&sstr=1&Page=1) or NASB (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=8064&t=NASB&sstr=1&Page=1).



The KJV shows another word being used: strongs h7549-
1) extended surface (solid), expanse, firmament
a) expanse (flat as base, support)
b) firmament (of vault of heaven supporting waters above)
1) considered by Hebrews as solid and supporting 'waters' above

I'm sure you've come across this before, how does one decide which one is right?

The clouds then would be the water above the expanse if one goes with the NIV version?
Because the later verse says God called it Heaven, so you are told the correct meaning. Then looking at the meaning of Heaven it is crystal clear what is being said.

So, the NASB is correct to say Heaven as is the NIV to say sky. NIV is just easier to understand because it drills down to modern word for Heaven.

[vagabond]

Thanks Core.

[vagabond]

I was just reading the NIV version of creation, Gen 1:6 God said, "Let there be a huge space between the waters. Let it separate water from water." 7 And that's exactly what happened. God made the huge space between the waters. He separated the water that was under the space from the water that was above it. 8 God called the huge space "sky." There was evening, and there was morning. It was day two.
It shows the water 'above' the firmament, then I noticed they have the sun, moon and stars 'in' the firmament.
Gen 1:14 God said, "Let there be lights in the huge space of the sky. Let them separate the day from the night. Let them serve as signs to mark off the seasons and the days and the years. 15 Let them serve as lights in the huge space of the sky to give light on the earth." And that's exactly what happened. 16 God made two great lights. He made the larger light to rule over the day. He made the smaller light to rule over the night. He also made the stars. 17 God put the lights in the huge space of the sky to give light on the earth. 18 He put them there to rule over the day and the night. He put them there to separate light from darkness.

I'm wondering what the water is 'above' the firmament?

[CoreIssue]

I was just reading the NIV version of creation, Gen 1:6 God said, "Let there be a huge space between the waters. Let it separate water from water." 7 And that's exactly what happened. God made the huge space between the waters. He separated the water that was under the space from the water that was above it. 8 God called the huge space "sky." There was evening, and there was morning. It was day two.
It shows the water 'above' the firmament, then I noticed they have the sun, moon and stars 'in' the firmament.
Why do you keep changing and adding words when quoting and then treating them as if that is what is written?

Don't do that. It isn't acceptable. Define words used if you wish, but don't just change them.
6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:14 God said, "Let there be lights in the huge space of the sky. Let them separate the day from the night. Let them serve as signs to mark off the seasons and the days and the years. 15 Let them serve as lights in the huge space of the sky to give light on the earth." And that's exactly what happened. 16 God made two great lights. He made the larger light to rule over the day. He made the smaller light to rule over the night. He also made the stars. 17 God put the lights in the huge space of the sky to give light on the earth. 18 He put them there to rule over the day and the night. He put them there to separate light from darkness.
14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day. I'm wondering what the water is 'above' the firmament?[/QUOTE]
Even today we use 'sky' as a generic term referring to what we see above.

When we want to get more specific we say atmosphere and the Bible says First Heaven and we say Outer Space and the Bible says Second Heaven.

The Bible was written in every day language, even when it includes phrases and words of specific usage. You have to learn when which is being used.

[vagabond]

Why do you keep changing and adding words when quoting and then treating them as if that is what is written?



I copied and pasted, then I colored in blue to separate the quote from my comments. What did I add? I can't find it?


Even today we use 'sky' as a generic term referring to what we see above.

When we want to get more specific we say atmosphere and the Bible says First Heaven and we say Outer Space and the Bible says Second Heaven.

The Bible was written in every day language, even when it includes phrases and words of specific usage. You have to learn when which is being used.


Okay, I'm obviously confused. Trying to grasp the flow of scripture.

It'll probably make sense when I see which word I added.

[CoreIssue]

Why do you keep changing and adding words when quoting and then treating them as if that is what is written?

I copied and pasted, then I colored in blue to separate the quote from my comments. What did I add? I can't find it?
OK, I see what is going on. That is not the NIV, but the NIV Readers version. Click the Online Bibles link above to get the NIV.

Even today we use 'sky' as a generic term referring to what we see above.

When we want to get more specific we say atmosphere and the Bible says First Heaven and we say Outer Space and the Bible says Second Heaven.

The Bible was written in every day language, even when it includes phrases and words of specific usage. You have to learn when which is being used.
Okay, I'm obviously confused. Trying to grasp the flow of scripture.

True. The Bible used phrases, symbols and such used in those ancient days just like we use them today. We use phrases and such all the time and know what they mean and don't even think about the words versus the literal meanings.

[vagabond]

LOL, at myself that is.

Sorry about creating the confusion.


True. The Bible used phrases, symbols and such used in those ancient days just like we use them today. We use phrases and such all the time and know what they mean and don't even think about the words versus the literal meanings.


I'm sarting a new topic in, 'general discussion and debate' to further examine this.

I'm still not clear but do appreciate your help thus far.