Exodus

[a.baker]

How does the Egyptian magicians do the same things in the plagues or signs as did Moses and Aaron in front of Pharaoh? I can see the staff and snake being some sort of magician trick, but the blood in the Nile?

Also when the Lord said Pharaohs heart will be hardened, is that because God made it so or because he foreknew Pharaohs heart would be hard?

[CoreIssue]

How does the Egyptian magicians do the same things in the plagues or signs as did Moses and Aaron in front of Pharaoh? I can see the staff and snake being some sort of magician trick, but the blood in the Nile?

Also when the Lord said Pharaohs heart will be hardened, is that because God made it so or because he foreknew Pharaohs heart would be hard?
Either it was some trick or it was the power of demons at work.

Where it changed was with the knats and flies. They were created out of the dust. Only God can create life, demons cannot.

We do not know exactly. But it is clear that God was more powerful.

[a.baker]

Yeah I see that they could do the staff and snake, Nile and blood, but they could only bring the frogs not get rid of them. Only God could get rid of them.

Also I kept reading and saw many pieces of scripture clearly stating that God made Pharaohs heart hard so that He could show the whole earth for all time that He was God. Said he raised the Egyptians up for that purpose. Exodus 9:16 and 10:1-3 for example.

Also Exodus 12 The Passover. 12:17 says we are to celebrate this for generations to come. Has that changed because Jesus came, was the ultimate sacrifice and the Lamb? Is the Last Supper what replaced the Passover? Because I don't see anyone celebrating the Passover any where any more.

[CoreIssue]

Yeah I see that they could do the staff and snake, Nile and blood, but they could only bring the frogs not get rid of them. Only God could get rid of them.

Also I kept reading and saw many pieces of scripture clearly stating that God made Pharaohs heart hard so that He could show the whole earth for all time that He was God. Said he raised the Egyptians up for that purpose. Exodus 9:16 and 10:1-3 for example.
I agree.
Also Exodus 12 The Passover. 12:17 says we are to celebrate this for generations to come. Has that changed because Jesus came, was the ultimate sacrifice and the Lamb? Is the Last Supper what replaced the Passover? Because I don't see anyone celebrating the Passover any where any more.
'We' were not commanded to celebrate it, Israel was. It was never for Gentiles.

In the Church Age Jews are Christians, so they don't celebrate the Mosaic requirements since the Mosaic Covenant is gone, annulled.

In the Trib they will celebrate a new form of Law that has festivals and such, but we don't know exactly what the forms or requirements are for all of it.

[a.baker]

Ahhh I see, thanks.

[a.baker]

Exodus 16:18 And they measured it by the omer, he who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little. Each one gathered as much as he needed.
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Here it says 'he gathered as much as he NEEDED'.
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2 Corinthians 8:15 as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."
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This one I look at as the one who gathered much was a hoarder and selfish and cared not for his neighbor, so even though he had a lot he had little love and little people in his life.
But the one who gathered little had much because he shared, gave to others before himself and had much love and people in his life.

I pointed this out because I love this verse (actually one on my porch) and saw it as I was reading and thought "hey that's also in the NT, same verse but different meaning". Just thought I would share.

[a.baker]

In Exodus 16:1-36 God gave them quail and manna. It also says God was testing them... in what... in obeying and their faith?

In Exodus 16:34 It says Aaron put the the manna in front of the Testimony. What was the Testimony? The Ark and commandments wasn't established yet.

[a.baker]

So in Exodus 18:21-23 the beginning of a court system for man? Not just a king who decides but a system for society?

I know no questions are silly but I feel silly asking this, what does consecrate mean? Exodus 19:22

Exodus 19:19 Is this what the trumpets might sound like later in Revelations?

[CoreIssue]

Exodus 16:18 And they measured it by the omer, he who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little. Each one gathered as much as he needed.
-------
Here it says 'he gathered as much as he NEEDED'.
-------
2 Corinthians 8:15 as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."
-------
This one I look at as the one who gathered much was a hoarder and selfish and cared not for his neighbor, so even though he had a lot he had little love and little people in his life.
But the one who gathered little had much because he shared, gave to others before himself and had much love and people in his life.

I pointed this out because I love this verse (actually one on my porch) and saw it as I was reading and thought "hey that's also in the NT, same verse but different meaning". Just thought I would share.
I believe it says in the context is those who gather get much do not have too much because they share with those who get little, meaning those who are blessed with or can do more help those who are not so blessed or unable. So all end up the same on having.

But for those few who did try to hoard God took it from them and they ended up working harder than those who only did the minimal required and gaining nothing.

I am combining the thoughts together.

[CoreIssue]

In Exodus 16:1-36 God gave them quail and manna. It also says God was testing them... in what... in obeying and their faith?
Agree.
In Exodus 16:34 It says Aaron put the the manna in front of the Testimony. What was the Testimony? The Ark and commandments wasn't established yet.The tablets of the Ten Commandments.

[Willy]

In Exodus 16:1-36 God gave them quail and manna. It also says God was testing them... in what... in obeying and their faith?
Agree.
In Exodus 16:34 It says Aaron put the the manna in front of the Testimony. What was the Testimony? The Ark and commandments wasn't established yet.The tables of the Ten Commandments.

Exodus 16:32-35

32 Moses said, “This is what the Lord has commanded: ‘Take an omer of manna and keep it for the generations to come, so they can see the bread I gave you to eat in the desert when I brought you out of Egypt.’ ”

33 So Moses said to Aaron, “Take a jar and put an omer of manna in it. Then place it before the Lord to be kept for the generations to come.”

34 As the Lord commanded Moses, Aaron put the manna in front of the Testimony, that it might be kept.

35 The Israelites ate manna forty years, until they came to a land that was settled; they ate manna until they reached the border of Canaan.
Verse 35 ... Written looking back on what had happened. Jar of manna was placed in front of the Testimony after the Testimony had been delivered to Moses and placed inside the Ark of the Covenant ... once it was built.

:nod:

[a.baker]

But what was confusing to me is the mention of the Testimony but they did not have the 10 commandments yet or the Ark. So the Testimony came first, what was it?

[a.baker]

Post #8 too :nod:....

[Willy]

Post #8 too :nod:....


Exodus 19:22

Even the priests, who approach the Lord, must consecrate themselves, or the Lord will break out against them.”

Stem: Hithpael

1) to consecrate, sanctify, prepare, dedicate, be hallowed, be holy, be sanctified, be separate

f) (Hithpael)

1) to keep oneself apart or separate

2) to cause Himself to be hallowed (of God)

3) to be observed as holy

4) to consecrate oneself

:tiphat:

[Willy]

But what was confusing to me is the mention of the Testimony but they did not have the 10 commandments yet or the Ark. So the Testimony came first, what was it?

The Testimony initially is definitely the tablets of the law. The word stems from a word that means "witness" It is used in regard to the tablets of the law only, until the tablets of the law are placed inside the Ark of the Covenant under the mercy seat. Then a new phrase occurs ... the "Ark of the Testimony". That happens in Exodus 25:22. That is an important transition to note. It is important to understand why the tablets of the law were out of site and covered with the mercy seat. There were two cherubim, one on each side of the mercy seat looking across the mercy seat at each other; ... remember where cherubim is first mentioned ... (Genesis 3) and what were the circumstances? You are right the manna collected in Exodus 16 is before the Ark was built but within a short time from 15th day of the second month Exodus 16:1 until Exodus 40:17 So the tabernacle was set up on the first day of the first month in the second year.
So not really a long time until everything was built and ready.

:tiphat:

[a.baker]

So was the Testimony being referred to as a name than? Why didn't it just say the Lord or Witness instead of the Testimony?

Thanks for the consecration definition :)

I do understand the Ark of the Testimony or Covenant. :)

FYI Will have more questions soon, all my papers are upstairs and I have to be in and out today.

[Willy]

So was the Testimony being referred to as a name than? Why didn't it just say the Lord or Witness instead of the Testimony?

... not a proper noun. There are other words in Hebrew that are translated "witness"

... That particular Hebrew word used in Exodus 16:34 is the first time that form of the word is used in the O.T. ... translated about fifty plus times " testimony" ... four times it is translated "witness".

... here are the verses in Exodus (KJV) where that Hebrew word is translated "testimony".

http://media.salemwebnetwork.com/spacer.gif Home (http://www.biblestudytools.com/) > Lexicons (http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/) > Hebrew (http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/) > `eduwth (http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05715) > KJV Verse Count KJV Verse Count

Hebrew Word: Twd[

Transliterated Word: `eduwth

Book to Display: Exodus

Verse Count: 20

Ex 16:34 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+16:34&version=kjv&showtools=yes) As the LORD commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept.
Ex 25:16 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+25:16&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
Ex 25:21 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+25:21&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
Ex 25:22 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+25:22&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.
Ex 26:33 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+26:33&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy.
Ex 26:34 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+26:34&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And thou shalt put the mercy seat upon the ark of the testimony in the most holy place.
Ex 27:21 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+27:21&version=kjv&showtools=yes) In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.
Ex 30:6 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+30:6&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And thou shalt put it before the vail that is by the ark of the testimony, before the mercy seat that is over the testimony, where I will meet with thee.
Ex 30:26 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+30:26&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And thou shalt anoint the tabernacle of the congregation therewith, and the ark of the testimony,
Ex 30:36 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+30:36&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And thou shalt beat some of it very small, and put of it before the testimony in the tabernacle of the congregation, where I will meet with thee: it shall be unto you most holy.
Ex 31:7 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+31:7&version=kjv&showtools=yes) The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle,
Ex 31:18 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+31:18&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
Ex 32:15 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+32:15&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.
Ex 34:29 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+34:29&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
Ex 38:21 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+38:21&version=kjv&showtools=yes) This is the sum of the tabernacle, even of the tabernacle of testimony, as it was counted, according to the commandment of Moses, for the service of the Levites, by the hand of Ithamar, son to Aaron the priest.
Ex 39:35 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+39:35&version=kjv&showtools=yes) The ark of the testimony, and the staves thereof, and the mercy seat,
Ex 40:3 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+40:3&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And thou shalt put therein the ark of the testimony, and cover the ark with the vail.
Ex 40:5 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+40:5&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And thou shalt set the altar of gold for the incense before the ark of the testimony, and put the hanging of the door to the tabernacle.
Ex 40:20 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+40:20&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And he took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the staves on the ark, and put the mercy seat above upon the ark:
Ex 40:21 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ex+40:21&version=kjv&showtools=yes) And he brought the ark into the tabernacle, and set up the vail of the covering, and covered the ark of the testimony; as the LORD commanded Moses.
... when you read a number of verses containing the same word it helps (sometimes) to establish meaning.

Thanks for the consecration definition :)... my pleasure. ... not trying to teach here. ... I learn too. :nod:

I do understand the Ark of the Testimony or Covenant. :)
... it's a pretty big subject ...


:tiphat:

[a.baker]

Thanks a lot Willy for your time and help :)

Here are some questions I have thinking, maybe some where in the Bible their is answers , but.... When we go to heaven will we be each given a specific job or task for worshiping God (I ask because we see in Exodus how things became or started and how they got to be all the way up to the NT when Jesus came and was sacrificed. Reading Leviticus next.) ? I ask because I wonder will there be a heavenly Tabernacle or Temple (where does the NT lie in this subject exactly... mercy seat, our bodies each now the Temple...???) ? Where exactly will God dwell? I know He will be the Light for heaven and we will be in His presence but will we actually each be able to see Him face to face?

I know Moses couldn't see His face because he would die. And I understand that Moses was in mans form/flesh and when we die we will no longer be in the flesh, is in the flesh why Moses would of died if he saw Gods face?

[Willy]

Thanks a lot Willy for your time and help :)

Here are some questions I have thinking, maybe some where in the Bible their is answers , but.... When we go to heaven will we be each given a specific job or task for worshiping God (I ask because we see in Exodus how things became or started and how they got to be all the way up to the NT when Jesus came and was sacrificed. Reading Leviticus next.) ? I ask because I wonder will there be a heavenly Tabernacle or Temple (where does the NT lie in this subject exactly... mercy seat, our bodies each now the Temple...???) ?


God does not change. The conditions that He Himself gave to Moses on Sinai for Him to dwell in the Tabernacle (Tent) in the wilderness are the same conditions that must exist in your heart ... understanding ... for Him to set up camp in the Tabernacle (tent) that is your body.

... so, before you move on, learn why the testimony changed from just representing the tablets of the Law ... to representing a greater testimony that made it possible for God to dwell among men.

... the tablets of the law ... the ark ... the mercy seat ... the cherubim ... the blood ... God. What order from top to bottom so that God could be present above the mercy seat?

When you understand the order and why, then you will understand the purpose of each.

The Testimony initially is definitely the tablets of the law. The word stems from a word that means "witness" It is used in regard to the tablets of the law only, until the tablets of the law are placed inside the Ark of the Covenant under the mercy seat. Then a new phrase occurs ... the "Ark of the Testimony". That happens in Exodus 25:22. That is an important transition to note. It is important to understand why the tablets of the law were out of site and covered with the mercy seat. :nod::nod::nod:

[a.baker]

I do understand that of the OT up to Jesus and how the temple is in our body now ect. thanks Willy.
I was talking about heaven, the Bible doesn't talk too much about it. The new heaven many years in the future from now.

[CoreIssue]

The questions get into a pretty expansive area of issues.

What is in the Temple, the Cherubim, ark, seats and all the rest are an actual picture of what was/is in Heaven.

Read about God descending on his throne in Ezekiel and the throne area in Revelation. You see the one to one correlations.

In the earthly temple there was the throne surrounded by the cherubim with the seat of God in the middle. Before the throne is the High Priest and the 24 Elders, the priests who serve under the High Priest and the lampstand of the covenant representing the 7 angels of the covenant with the Holy Spirit fueling them. Beyond them is Israel, the Wife of God.

In Heaven God sat in his Temple with the Cherubim around him and the seven angels and Holy Spirit before him.

Now God, the Father, sits on his throne with the Cherubim around him and the High Priest Christ before him with the seven angels (7 lamps of the 7 lampstands of the Church Covenant) before him with the Holy Spirit in the temples of the saints on the earth.

In the Trib there is the Throne with God the Father with the cherubim around him, the 24 Elders and seven angels before him, the 7 angels we see in the Trib events, and Israel, the Wife of God behind them with the Two Lampstands, the Two Witnesses on the earth for half the Trib and before him for half the Trib. Christ the Bridegroom is with the Church, the Bride, in the Wedding Supper.

Then in the MK the Father is in Heaven and Christ is on the earth in the MK Temple.

Finally, on the New Earth, there is no Temple in the NJ, so God the Father and Christ our King are on the Throne of God and Israel and Church are with them for Eternity.

As for what we will all be doing, that is unknown. We know we will have mansions in the NJ and purposes. We know there will be streets in the NJ, thus we will be moving around. We know there will be different levels of rewards, etc. We know there will be comings and goings from the NJ. We know there will be new heavens, but will they be for us or restored sanctuaries of the angels? We know the Lake will be somewhere outside and those in it will never leave. We know there will be nations outside the NJ, but will they be those not of Israel or Church, etc? No, we don't know.

We just know it will be great.

I hope I didn't miss or mess something up in all of that.