Desperatly seeking answers!!

[PennyM]

I have been an on and off again christian..Currently finding another church to attend..do not get me wrong I strongly believe in GOD and wish for salvation and want to do the right things, but at times I will fall into that place where if I am around certain people I do as those people do...not literaly but for instance my problem...I am a divorced mother that is once again remarried..My current husband grew up in the church but has his own beliefs and I do not deny him of those beliefs cause I have my own. But with in the last year or two he has slowly came out that he is bisexual and was and still is trying to get me into his lifestyle including but not limited to voyerism and such..to please my husband I did some as what I am suppose to do. But now I have had this bad gut feeling that I need to stop and when I spoke to my husband about it he got distant, he will not talk to me about the subject cause he feels what he is doing is not wrong at all..I honestly do not want to subject myself to this stuff and I have no one to talk to about it. But then again I am stuck with the having to obey husband wishes. What am I suppose to do when I am married to a bisexual husband (we also have kids together and seperate). Am I suppose to embrace his wishes? I know GOD comes first in all aspects but I am really lost.:aah: I cannot find out what to do in my own bible. Someone please give me answers or point me into the right direction.:sob:

Thank you!!!

[InTheWind]

Welcome to CTZ, wow sounds like your really caught in some bad things. All can say is follow your heart and don`t sin to please someone else, i`m a strong believer in staying obedient to God .
I guess i would set my limits of what i would do and draw the line.
Will be praying that things work out. :pray:

[Christian]

Nice to meet you.

I'd have to say, by the way, that If a church doesn't except you two just the way you are it's an institution of Satan for all I care.

Nextly, even if you two make some agreement or something, him sleeping with a guy is still 'another human' and is cheating end of story. I think it proves you love each other to be loyal right? :P And hm, i'd be worried that he didn't tell you that until after you two got married, not a 'cool' move.

The talking with each other thing, and etc. If you still want it to work, get a counselor but make sure he's a Christian, Lol. It really does make a huge difference. I mean Human emotions are all we can feel, we need a higher power to defeat many problems in life, simply.

I also wish you the best of luck and God bless becuase as long as you're trying God is there and in fact right beside you and there's no one else you need and if you ever need anything please message me. I don't trust other people very much so i'll do my best to help and Bible-quote for reference for you, as well.

InTheWind's comment is great as well.

[a.baker]

God says in scripture He detests divorce except for unfaithfulness. Instead of your husband being selfish and thinking about what he wants he needs to think about what his family needs. Instead of encouraging any type of sin he needs to do what ever to get out of that sin and yes God will help him out of it but his struggle needs to be genuine. He needs to really try not be lazy about his efforts and just give in when tempted. If your husband is a Christian and reads his bible than he knows that adultery and unfaithfulness is wrong and if he KNOWS God, the fear would set in and he would stop his sinful ways.

Besides what about what you want for the marriage. This isn't his marriage this is together your marriage. Exactly what Christian said; it sounds like he wasn't up front with you in the beginning.

It is not easy to just stop something. I was addicted to many things and it took a lot of time and tiring effort but I didn't give up and God worked with me and got me out. Seriously the scripture repent or perish is what got me. But thats me. I don't know your husband. But God does. I will pray for him and you too. :pray: :hug:

I would not ever do anything that my husband or anyone else would want me to do if it ever went against my God. Not just the fear of knowing who God is but also the love I feel for God and the faithfulness I will prove to Him when the world tests me. I'm not perfect but I will put Him first.

I will also pray for you and your husband.

When you talk about being an off and on Christian than if I were you I would sit alone with my bible and read it and discover God for myself. I wouldn't look to other people or churches to discover Him. Man has so much error and everything has been inflicted so much. Not much good on earth. Many people decide to not give God a chance because they use people for their decision instead of finding Him for themselves.

O.k. here's a metaphoric example. Imagine needing a blanket to survive. If someone tells me that this is how you quilt a blanket and I look at their blanket and see all the holes in it and how pieces don't match I am not going to throw in the towel and never try quilting. Because if I never tried than I would never have a blanket to cover with when its cold. Instead I will pick up the how to quilt book and try for myself to make a blanket by what the book says and come through with a beautiful blanket and I will stay warm even in the coldest winters. And with wisdom I would have to be careful where I get the materials from to build the blanket. I can't trust just anyone who says they have a good product because I might get lied to and my money stole from me. I have to test the product out for myself with what the quilting book tells me to buy. See how it holds up to the test. Do you see what I mean?

Maybe not a good example because I am not trying to say we make God; oh no. I am just saying you can't look at what others dish out to make up your mind for you. Ignore the outside and focus on the subject by finding it for yourself. Start with God first; not with man is all I am saying. I hope I make sense.

[CoreIssue]

ITW and a.baker made a lot of good points.

Christian, it is not from Satan to not embrace someone as they are nor is it a sign of being a Christian in what her husband is up to.

A good church is suppose to try to help a person in sin. They are to gently correct, rebuke and teach them. But accept them in practicing such sins and trying to bring others into it? Never. Paul commanded such in one incident to be cast out of the church and raked the church for its pride of being so tolerant.

Biblically speaking, PennyM, you are in a situation that justifies divorce. Does not mean you have to do so, but it is justified.

As said, stop, think, decide and then move forward. I pray for you but it most assuredly is not going to be an easy road any direction you choose.

[PennyM]

thank you all so much for your support and answers...i understand them all completely especially a.bakers...I guess I have always done what others have wanted me to do for so long that i did not see it. I have found a church, thank heaven!! and havent been yet, new things scare me since i have not been in so long either...lol and the fact i have 4 kids that might not cooperate...but now i am going to do things myself from now on..thank you all...!!!

[a.baker]

Oh your so welcome! :hug: Any time. I am so glad to hear your sticking up for yourself and whats right! I am also glad to hear you may have found a church. Hang in there; nothings easy and always test everything to find if its genuine or not :nod: . It takes a good wise person to stick up for whats right. The more you do it the easier it will get. And God will take notice.

[Christian]

Core, don't worry, I didn't say anything about encouraging the sin. Only being a good example like Christ would.

And Penny, good luck <3 Cooperation < Being a mom and doing what's best for them.

[CoreIssue]

Core, don't worry, I didn't say anything about encouraging the sin. Only being a good example like Christ would.

And Penny, good luck <3 Cooperation < Being a mom and doing what's best for them.
Tolerance of sex and other serious sin isn't Biblical either. Paul chastised a church for doing that and told them to kick out the people unless they repented of it.

You really should get some real study under your belt before you begin advising people. You have said a lot of politically correct stuff that I know is taught in some churches, such as accept homosexuality or tolerating it as if no biggie. The question is are they really Christians teaching such things.

The conflicting messages here are not good for a seeker.
1 Corinthians 5
1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%205&version=31#fen-NIV-28444a)] may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord. 6Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.
9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

Revelation 2
12"To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
These are the words of him who has the sharp, double-edged sword. 13I know where you live—where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city—where Satan lives. 14Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality. 15Likewise you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. 17He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it
[B]To the Church in Thyatira

18"To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:
These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first. 20Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. 24Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): 25Only hold on to what you have until I come. 26To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations—
27'He will rule them with an iron scepter;
he will dash them to pieces like pottery'[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=2&version=31#fen-NIV-30729b)]— just as I have received authority from my Father. 28I will also give him the morning star. 29He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
There is more but tolerance and calling those who will not allow ones who promote sexual sin and will not repent among them is despised by God.

[Christian]

Core,

I didn't mean tolerating it either, I mean don't give up on people.

So i'll disregard your studying comment beings it was based on a misunderstanding or over-complexity of my simple comment but of course that applies to all of us anyway.

I don't know for sure where you're targeting that comment about the contradictions but i'm going to look a few things and give you a big reply to your quotes there.

[CoreIssue]

Core,

I didn't mean tolerating it either, I mean don't give up on people.

So i'll disregard your studying comment beings it was based on a misunderstanding or over-complexity of my simple comment but of course that applies to all of us anyway.

I don't know for sure where you're targeting that comment about the contradictions but i'm going to look a few things and give you a big reply to your quotes there.
Read the verses. There is no misunderstanding of what you said about those who will not tolerate willful sexual sinners in the midst. You are 180 to what the Bible says when you call them an institution of Satan.

I already said we are to strive to love, correct and teach those in sin. But when they will not leave that life they are to be kicked out. Period.

[Christian]

God never turns his back on us, we only turn ours on his. True love is never giving up, so...Just loving the people that agree with you is prejudice hate, as Satan preaches, so I still stick to my point. We can agree to disagree but I say never give up, you can be a quitter and pretend it's love and cast out people all you want :P I won't. My arms stay open. Revenge is the Lord's not ours, anyway.

So to avoid any more confusion, exactly what i'm trying to say by ALL of this is: "I don't think we should ever give up on people, God doesn't, it's not Love otherwise." And we disagree. Yet i'm sure can both support our points with multiple quotes, I just think being a 'Christian' referencing Christ, I win. Unless your religion is different, i apologize for being confused.

[CoreIssue]

God never turns his back on us, we only turn ours on his. True love is never giving up, so...Just loving the people that agree with you is prejudice hate, as Satan preaches, so I still stick to my point. We can agree to disagree but I say never give up, you can be a quitter and pretend it's love and cast out people all you want :P I won't.
Try dealing with the verses instead of putting your spin on it. Those semantical arguments don't work.

Christ even told the Apostles that they would encounter people that were beyond their help and for them to leave and shake the dust from their shoes.

If you don't understand what that means it is move on when they prove hopeless.

So, you are saying Paul and Christ preached Satan's messaqe when they said there are people that should not be in your life.

It isn't an issue of love. But one of reality. You can love someone and still know when it is time to get away from them. God will love those in the Lake for Eternity but he will still condemn them to it.

You are doing what all do who don't like what a verse says. They don't deal with the verse, they try to argue from their own logic. The Bible wins.

You have yet to use a verse to back an argument. That is a clue where your position is coming from.

[Christian]

I understand what you're saying and those types of people but man one verse in the bible can overwrite every other verse in the entire Book. It's God's word afterall. And he'll reward us most for our undying Love like He has for us, so i'm still sticking to that. It's not like i wouldn't ackolwedge right or wrong or try my best to help the person just because I don't shun them. Of course.

Proverbs 10:12
Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs.

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins

1 Corinthians 13:4-13
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. . .And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. - excerpts from

Proverbs 17:17
A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for adversity

John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Luke 6:31

Do for other people everything you'd like them to do for you.

[Christian]

I apologize for the double post, my last post was more response to this thread, this post is more personal. Don't miss my post right above this ^ I'll quote it at the end.

John 15:18-21
“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you... If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you... because they do not know Him who sent Me."

John 16:1-4
“These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. They will put you out of the synagogues [today it might be from churches]; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them."

John 17:14-18
"I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one."

I understand what you're saying and those types of people but man one verse in the bible can overwrite every other verse in the entire Book. It's God's word afterall. And he'll reward us most for our undying Love like He has for us, so i'm still sticking to that. It's not like i wouldn't ackolwedge right or wrong or try my best to help the person just because I don't shun them. Of course.

Proverbs 10:12
Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs.

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins

1 Corinthians 13:4-13
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. . .And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. - excerpts from

Proverbs 17:17
A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for adversity

John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Luke 6:31

Do for other people everything you'd like them to do for you.

[John Beckett]

`

Christian, just one quick note from my personal perspective. You say
God does not turn His Back on us. To that, I feel the need to
remind you of the time when Jesus, God's Only Begotten
Son, Took all of the sins to Himself whilst on the
cross, and God Turned away!

There can be no sin in His Holy, Divine Presence!

Therefore, if you continue in your sins, then there is no
love for Him in you, for Jesus Said if you love Him,
you will obey His Commandments!

How can a sinner therefore continue in his/her sins and
claim to be a child of the King?

By the way, I see a lot of love and compassion from you
toward your fellow Brethren, and I commend you on it.

However, as Core is pointing out, there is such a thing as
giving too much leeway to your Brethren when he or she is
BLATANTLY continuing in their walk outside of the "Straight
and Narrow Gait which leads to Eternal Life in Jesus".

Amen?

Thank you. WHEW!!! :swoon:




`

[a.baker]

Some of the scripture you pointed out above about love covers all wrongs ect. love scripture ect. To me that says that we do not hold a grudge on a brother who is in the process of repenting or has repented and yet again has messed up. One will see if it is true repentance by the way they fight and toil with their sin and fleshy selves to make right with God. We can help encourage each other and build each other up when one is really trying. Repentance is not always easy and that is why God told us to forgive our brother not 7 times but 77 times.

And they did cast some out of the church because the HS was in work within them and they followed what God wanted. Now we are to judge those within the church and God teaches us that. If one is an alcoholic and seems comfortable and feels no guilt and tries not to change his ways how many outsiders will he lead astray that are watching his actions? Silly I know but they will think "Well that man drinks often and he is a Christian so it must be o.k. for me to drink as well as long as I don't hurt no one in the process". Thats why we have to cast out the immoral brother who cares not and tries not to change. If we didn't there would be blind leading the blind. Does that make sense?

Jesus spread the message to thousands even those the cities who others felt were not worth it. But He did not yoke Himself with unbelievers. Yes He associated Himself with them but He did not use them as an example when they didn't listen to Him. He used them as an example only when they did listen to Him. And He yoked Himself with more than likely the disciples. The others were; see, spread message and go; kinda thing. A ministry. He didn't stay but He invited EVERYONE who wanted to hear to come and listen since the message was for all. But if one spit in His face; well He moved on.

I believe the scripture you said that there will be a time where others kill us right as they think they are doing a service for God. Well that verse to me screams the Muslim religion; does it not? I cannot see a Christian killing another Christian. I cannot! See the scripture said "a service to God" not "a service to Jesus".

[CoreIssue]

I understand what you're saying and those types of people but man one verse in the bible can overwrite every other verse in the entire Book.
Which is a false statement. Verses harmonize, they do not nullify each other. Called Hermeneutics.

If you see a contradiction it is your error, not the Bible 'overriding' itself one place to another.

As for your verses. Very one dimensional, as if God is only Love. No, he is just and we are to be just, even in our love.

Your verses do not work against what I posted. They frame how it is to be handled. Your equating what I said to being from hate is totally erroneous.

You totally avoided the verses on church I posted and how your position has Christ on the side of Satan.

You need to rethink your position and use the WHOLE Bible for a change.
Luke 6:31

Do for other people everything you'd like them to do for you.Does that include allowing murder, robbery, rape and so on?

[CoreIssue]

John 15:18-21
“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you... If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you... because they do not know Him who sent Me."
And why do they hate us? For calling ourselves Christians?

I only see the hatred for those who stand for absolutes, you need Christ to be saved or else you go to Hell and serious sin is not to embraced.

Look at Joel Olsteen, in example. He is loved and embraced by millions. Those that hate the Bible and the Gospel even love him because he is just so accepting of everyone. His message isn't Christian. It is material and worldly gain.

I have a relative that hates Christianity and the Bible. Totally. Cannot talk about . But he LOVES Olsteen because he is all about health, wealth and prosperity. Living the full and fun life. All about the here and now.

Or those that march for gay rights, abortion rights and so on. They are embraced by the world.

Now, look at the verse. It says those who embrace Christ will be hated.

Think about it.

John 16:1-4
“These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. They will put you out of the synagogues [today it might be from churches]; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them."
Exactly. The Apostacy. The Great Falling Away. Itching ears that cannot abide sound doctrine. False Christianity. Declaring God's love and denying his justice and Law about sin.
John 17:14-18
"I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one."
And in Eternity the those of the world that hate us here will be taken out and put into the Lake.

We try to get as many 'out of the world' as possible. But we recognize it is not possible to get all. But leaving the worldly ways with us is what God calls 'yeast.' Yeast causes sin to rise up and change the 'loaf.' Tolerance is yeast that changes things. If not the immediate generation the next. It attracts more sin and encourages more tolerance until the foundation is gone.

After all, why change if it does not matter?

[Christian]

John you type in Bible-Verse style format am I right? :P And I know what you're saying. But thanks to that begotten Son, we know have a mediator. Which throws a wrench in much of that context.

Baker, Indeed; However, I think we're already being discouraged greatly by general Christians. That 'Day' is already here. It's not physical murder but our Spirits are being murdered, and deeds for God are not happening.

Core, it's not a false statement if you read my verse on Love. That's what I meant. You are ripping on me hard about ignoring things, but i think that's what you're doing, my Bible verses are never good enough and you get defensive about something I wasn't even trying to say, etc. Like how in the world did you get that Murder question out of Luke 6:31 verse heh? Super silly if you ask me.

And yea, I see myself being looked down on for making Christ my absolute, actually. I guess quotes of the old ways Christ replaced are more important then the actual only path to Heaven. I think another basis of our arguements are us prioritizing things differently.

[CoreIssue]

John you type in Bible-Verse style format am I right? :P And I know what you're saying. But thanks to that begotten Son, we know have a mediator. Which throws a wrench in much of that context.
Having a Mediator and following a Mediator are two different issues.

You are getting real close to a Universal Salvation message.
Baker, Indeed; However, I think we're already being discouraged greatly by general Christians. That 'Day' is already here. It's not physical murder but our Spirits are being murdered, and deeds for God are not happening. Yep. And the Apostate churches pushing the love and embrace all are coffins. They tell their followers love the sinner and forget the sin.
Core, it's not a false statement if you read my verse on Love.It is a false statement when they are read to the exclusion of the rest of the Bible. You make them into things unsaid an not meant.
That's what I meant. You are ripping on me hard about ignoring things, Which you are doing. Trying to wake you up here.
but i think that's what you're doing, Nope. I have dealt with your verses and their meanings. You have simply disregarded and said mine do not apply in any manner or are 'overwritten' by other verse.

Not a single attempt to explain the verses or context I posted to you. Just declarations and Shopping Cart verses spun in meanings.

You are on an issue I don't back down from because it is destroying potential believers.
my Bible verses are never good enough and you get defensive about something I wasn't even trying to say, etc.Not defensive. I am outright rejecting your spin. Now address my verses directly and explain them instead of pretending they don't count or have been annulled.
Like how in the world did you get that Murder question out of Luke 6:31 verse heh? Super silly if you ask me. I was pushing the standard you tried to demand by giving realities you did not address that are covered in such issues. You limit the parameters of inclusion but then are trapped into admitting there are limits, which boundaries you do not define as I did.
And yea, I see myself being looked down on for making Christ my absolute, actually.Not as much as some of the rest of us do. I bet. But good. Even if what is called babes still on mothers milk needing to mature it is still the right direction.
I guess quotes of the old ways Christ replaced Nope. Some of the OT has been fulfilled and some has not. But God's love and justice are unchanged. From the beginning it has been salvation by repentance in faith through grace.
are more important then the actual only path to Heaven. I think another basis of our arguements are us prioritizing things differently.And what is that Path? What about Sanctifying growth in Christ?

We are commanded to study and learn. To become more Christlike. Christ never taught blanket acceptance of anything as my verses pointed out.

He most assuredly taught patience and mercy. But he also stated there is a limit to those even for God. The Eternal Lake proves that and that some are beyond reach and we are to kick them out, shake the dust off our shoes and so on when appropriate.

[Christian]

I know we are suppose to study God's word, i'm very into all the things Christ said and did rest assured. And don't worry i'm taking everything into thought and using this site and all of you to help reflect and grow. I won't begin my journey until i'm the right path. I'm just going to pretend the Majority of Christians already have it figured it out. Christ and the Jews for example. And The Bible also makes it apparent even MOST 'Christian's' aren't going to be in Heaven. And Actions do Speak louder then Words. Jesus did more "Crossing" then "Talking," case in point. And it's also important to realize when you look at a verse, there are exceptions, deeper meanings you find in other parts of the Bible, and sometimes it's even over-ridden by the New Testament.

I know you talk about your age and experience brings Wisdom.

But I actually believe God gives wisdom. That's what my Bible says at least.

I also know there are prophets like Timothy who were trying to save people in their mid-20's at estimate, and Paul encouraged him and he became sucessful by his early 30's. And told him to never let people look down on you for your age.

Also how many times have you read the Bible? I'm going to re-read it and re-read it for the rest of my Life 8 years ago when I was baptized by choice, and passed the 'Elders Test' and impressed them, or whatnot.

I also know my youth means i've more updated education and live in a world that needs more extreme Christians to be saved.

So I thank you for trying to open my eyes, but at the same i've read what you've posted before, and sure no one is perfect and i do need to re-cap I know. But no more thinking you're superior please sir :) Thanks. I have these feelings and callings and gifts and God says to not ignore them and i've been through the life-styles of many average-age adults already and I believe i'll 'catch up' very quickly even being a few decades younger. After-all with enough Faith anyone can move mountains. I pray to set an example. I just also know I will be shunned by the multitude of Christians for pursuiting Christ in contradiction to their classy estabolishment and vanity. But i'm willing. And i'm all open ears for guidence and criticism and debates like ours, thanks again. Please don't ever get too upset with me hehe, I'm a calm and polite fellow I just take my internets n forums more emotionally.

[CoreIssue]

I know we are suppose to study God's word, i'm very into all the things Christ said and did rest assured. And don't worry i'm taking everything into thought and using this site and all of you to help reflect and grow. I won't begin my journey until i'm the right path.
Good.
I'm just going to pretend the Majority of Christians already have it figured it out. Christ and the Jews for example.You mean don't have it figured out?

If they did there would not be so many doctrines and dominations in total conflict with each other and the Bible.
And The Bible also makes it apparent even MOST 'Christian's' aren't going to be in Heaven.Sad truth.
And Actions do Speak louder then Words. Jesus did more "Crossing" then "Talking," case in point.A lot of time was spent in traveling. But remember only a fraction of what he said was recorded. Not the repetitions thereof.
And it's also important to realize when you look at a verse, there are exceptions, deeper meanings you find in other parts of the Bible, and sometimes it's even over-ridden by the New Testament. Never an exception. Misunderstanding of intent that appears an exception for sure.
I know you talk about your age and experience brings Wisdom.

But I actually believe God gives wisdom. That's what my Bible says at least. Wisdom is a gift. The knowledge and experience that empowers it comes with time and work.
I also know there are prophets like TimothyTimothy was not a prophet. He began as a disciple of Paul who traveled with him and later was assigned to be a preacher at a local church.
who were trying to save people in their mid-20's at estimate, and Paul encouraged him And where did you get that information from?

If you are not aware, Timothy was a Jew and a male Jew was not considered an adult until age 30.
and he became sucessful by his early 30's. And told him to never let people look down on you for your age.
But at the same time he was a co-worker under the tutelage and leadership of Paul.

Not knocking Timothy. He was a great man, indeed. But let us keep the facts straight about him and understand that an exception like him does not set the rule for all. At old age he was still an exception among men.
Also how many times have you read the Bible? I'm going to re-read it and re-read it for the rest of my Life I lost count years ago on straight through readings.

Then I moved to spending sometimes weeks on single passages, looking up work meanings, cross referencing and parallel reading.

It isn't how many times one reads, but how they read.
8 years ago when I was baptized by choice, and passed the 'Elders Test' and impressed them, or whatnot.Elder test? What nonsense is that? What denomination?
I also know my youth means i've more updated education and live in a world that needs more extreme Christians to be saved. No such thing as more extreme Christians than there were before. Never has been.
So I thank you for trying to open my eyes, but at the same i've read what you've posted before, and sure no one is perfect and i do need to re-cap I know. But no more thinking you're superior please sir :)I never said superior. I am simple more advanced in the issues. And when and if you reach 57 you better be more advanced than the current batch of 19 year old or you will have failed miserably. And I will have moved on by then.
Thanks. I have these feelings Be careful with feelings. They can be dangerous.
and callingsCalled by whom for what? Test all things.
and giftsEvery Christian has at least one gift. Some more.
and God says to not ignore themAgree.
and i've been through the life-styles of many average-age adults already Lifestyle is one thing. There are a lot of other things that require a lot of time and patience.

Trust me, time and patience sound easy until you begin to understand the scale of each as a chunk of ones total life.
and I believe i'll 'catch up' very quickly even being a few decades younger. With some you should. With other you cannot because trust me there are many out there who had your same place in life when they were your age. You cannot catch up to such nor will those behind you be able to catch up if you forge ahead. Simple rule of life.
After-all with enough Faith anyone can move mountains. I pray to set an example.Worthy goal. Pursue in humbleness, not pride, or you will fail.
I just also know I will be shunned by the multitude of Christians for pursuiting Christ in contradiction to their classy estabolishment and vanity.I have been unwelcomed from a few churches by asking questions about their doctrines versus the Bible. Not for asking, but for being able to prove the case.
But i'm willing.Good.
And i'm all open ears for guidence and criticism and debates like ours, thanks again. Please don't ever get too upset with me hehe, I'm a calm and polite fellow I just take my internets n forums more emotionally.Why get upset? Try talking to multiple cult members or such at a time. Getting upset makes one a guaranteed failure in such arenas.

[Christian]

I'm just "NOT" going to pretend...I meant, Lol. Typo.

Never an exception. Misunderstanding of intent that appears an exception for sure.Well if you don't acknolwedge excpetions then you allow room for contradictions, sir.

For a Bible fan Timothy having his own entire book should account for a little more of something eh? And either way he accomplished a lot is my point. And I know, that's why he was told by Paul not to get down becuase of his age becuase it wasn't important that he didn't meet man's standards of "Adulthood" ;) I suppose the best way to settle this is we both read Timothy tonight. I sat down and did it a week ago.

And I agree with most of what you said except again "Through God ALL things are possible" so i'll still rely on Faith and defend my point.

And yea i've talked to some crazy people haha. Name it and I can name them.

[CoreIssue]

I'm just "NOT" going to pretend...I meant, Lol. Typo.
As I thought.
Never an exception. Misunderstanding of intent that appears an exception for sure.Well if you don't acknolwedge excpetions then you allow room for contradictions, sir.
Nope. Another area where you find with study what fails is your understanding, not the Bible.

No contradictions and no need to try to explain anything away as an exception.
For a Bible fan Timothy having his own entire book should account for a little more of something eh?
They are Paul's book to him. Not Timothy's book.

They are included as a teaching resource example to the Church. Not praise and elevation of Timothy. Paul and the Apostles had many disciples and taught many. No need to include every letter, just the best ones.
And either way he accomplished a lot is my point.
As did hundreds of others. You forget the purpose of the Bible is to teach and deliver God's guidance. Not praise people.
And I know, that's why he was told by Paul not to get down becuase of his age becuase it wasn't important that he didn't meet man's standards of "Adulthood" ;)
Nope. Wrong again. It was because he should not be looked down on for working and trying at his age to set goals and achieve them.

You keep loosing the context he was not fully functioning as an independent worker, which you keep implying. Or that he was a youth throughout both letters, he wasn't.
I suppose the best way to settle this is we both read Timothy tonight. I sat down and did it a week ago.
Done many times already. Maybe you need to stop trying to bring me down to your level of study, as if we are equal in time spent. ;)
And I agree with most of what you said except again "Through God ALL things are possible" so i'll still rely on Faith and defend my point.
Pentecostals doe that and fail a lot by all they expect through faith that fails Biblical testing.

Bible tells you to test all things to determine the spirit by which they are said. It says to study to show yourself approved.

Stepping out in faith to learn, grow and achieve a goal is one thing. Stepping out in faith before you learn and grow and trying to be a preacher, teacher or councilor to others is quite another issue.

God just doesn't drop knowledge into your head. Even Paul, a mature man who fully knew the OT went away to learn about Christ and his teachings for a year or two before beginning his ministry. And he had been in direct contact with Christ on the road and was called to be probably the most important Apostle of the NT.
And yea i've talked to some crazy people haha. Name it and I can name them.
But do you know how to correctly deal with them? Big difference and many do not.

I have sent Mormons and JWs out of my home shaking, even crying, because I took the time to learn how. Just preaching at them is fruitless since they have been indoctrinated against such efforts.

Not bragging. Just trying to get across to you one must be prepared to do tasks for God. I am not seeing you are ready for big purposes... yet.

God has guided me to do things. But I learned a long time ago the calling and fulfillment can have gaps of many years.

[Christian]

Pretty sure I handled them well. Made friends with all of them. Over time saw they virtually changed their beliefs at least a little. And i'm done debating now we stole this thread from someone else who needs it more.

[CoreIssue]

Pretty sure I handled them well. Made friends with all of them. Over time saw they virtually changed their beliefs at least a little. And i'm done debating now we stole this thread from someone else who needs it more.
Making friends, real or otherwise, is the norm.

But they, as in all, changing their beliefs at least a littel. Hmmmm.

Yep. Have to deal with the starting subject of the thread, for sure.

[Freeman]

I was hoping you could offer me some advice, one christian to another?
I need help knowing if this is a prayer I should be praying to be answered. I made a list and was honest with the Heavenly Father about the good vs the bad about my prayer. I have been honest with my self and not made it an issue of lust but about truely being with this person and marrying them.
I have asked the heavenly father about bringing me and another child of his together in Holy Matrimony. But only if it is Gods will and not mine. I have also asked that if it be what the Heavenly Father wants for us, let us be led to each other in a way the is fit in Gods eyes.
I have prayed as the persistant widow has for several days and have continually been open in my conversations with God about why I would like to come to know him and eventually marry him. But I need help from other God fearing but also others who love the Heaveny Father.On whether I am treating God ike a vending machine or reay praying a good prayer.

[kay-gee]

What exactly is it that you would like to know?

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

I was hoping you could offer me some advice, one christian to another?
I need help knowing if this is a prayer I should be praying to be answered. I made a list and was honest with the Heavenly Father about the good vs the bad about my prayer. I have been honest with my self and not made it an issue of lust but about truely being with this person and marrying them.
I have asked the heavenly father about bringing me and another child of his together in Holy Matrimony. But only if it is Gods will and not mine. I have also asked that if it be what the Heavenly Father wants for us, let us be led to each other in a way the is fit in Gods eyes.
I have prayed as the persistant widow has for several days and have continually been open in my conversations with God about why I would like to come to know him and eventually marry him. But I need help from other God fearing but also others who love the Heaveny Father.On whether I am treating God ike a vending machine or reay praying a good prayer.
Sometimes God is silent when the Bible states the answer.

As here, if sex is happening you are already told to marry them. So, answer given.

If not involved, then you two need to resolve it between yourselves.