Obama: America is 'no longer Christian' .......

[John Beckett]

`

Some have been taking issue with largely unnoticed comments made last year by Sen. Barack Obama declaring the U.S. is "no longer a Christian nation" but is also a nation of others, including Muslims and nonbelievers.
The comments have been recently recirculating on Internet blogs.
"Whatever we once were, we're no longer a Christian nation. At least not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, and a Buddhist nation, and a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers," Obama said during a June 2007 speech available on YouTube.
At the speech, Obama also seemingly blasted the "Christian Right" for hijacking religion and using it to divide the nation:
"Somehow, somewhere along the way, faith stopped being used to bring us together and started being used to drive us apart. It got hijacked. Part of it's because of the so-called leaders of the Christian Right, who've been all too eager to exploit what divides us," he said.
Asked last year to clarify his remarks, Obama repeated them to the Christian Broadcast Network:
"I think that the right might worry a bit more about the dangers of sectarianism. Whatever we once were, we're no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers," Obama wrote in an e-mail to CBN News senior national correspondent David Brody.
"We should acknowledge this and realize that when we're formulating policies from the state house to the Senate floor to the White House, we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community," wrote Obama.
Obama did clarify his statement about the "Christian Right."
"My intention was to contrast the heated partisan rhetoric of a distinct minority of Christian leaders with the vast majority of Evangelical Christians – conservatives included – who believe that hate has no place in our politics.
"When you have pastors and television pundits who appear to explicitly coordinate with one political party; when you're implying that your fellow Americans are traitors, terrorist sympathizers or akin to the devil himself; then I think you're attempting to hijack the faith of those who follow you for your own personal or political ends," wrote Obama.
The Illinois senator's speech declaring the U.S. "no longer Christian" was met with little fanfare. But it has been getting some recent play.
A television commercial that aired in South Dakota by a group calling itself the Coalition Against Anti-Christian Rhetoric juxtaposes the audio of Obama's "no longer Christian" statement over images of the presidential candidate dressed in Somali garb and a picture of Obama with his hands rested below his waist while other politicians place their hands over their hearts during the Pledge of Allegiance.
"It's time for people to take a stand against Barack Hussein Obama," declares the voiceover on the commercial.
The Gateway Pundit blog took notice of Obama's speech about the U.S. being a nation also for Muslims and non-believers.
"This won't play well in the Bible Belt," commented the blog in a recent posting.
Obama's campaign has long utilized faith as a central theme. The candidate's Christianity and his former membership in the controversial Trinity United Church of Christ have been much scrutinized.
His comment about the "Christian Right" echoed similar statements made by Merrill A. McPeak, Obama's military adviser and national campaign co-chairman.
As WND reported, in a 2003 interview with The Oregonian newspaper, McPeak seemed to compare evangelical Christians to the terror groups Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Oregonian interviewer asked McPeak whether "there's an element within Hamas, Hezbollah, that doesn't want Israel to exist at all and always will be there?"
McPeak responded by comparing the two terror groups to "radical" Oregonians.
"There's an element in Oregon, you know, that's always going to be radical in some pernicious way, and likely to clothe it in religious garments, so it makes it harder to attack. So there's craziness all over the place."
Oregon has a large evangelical Christian community.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=67735



`

[a.baker]

The more I hear Obama speak the more I hear him telling everyone to "disregard" what they believe and to have faith, hope, strength and peace in him. O.k. he doesn't say that exactly but that is the message he is sending. Any true Christian will see through him in a heart beat and turn away from him; no question there. But because the mass population is non Christian they look to him for those things that they are hungry for and they will vote for him. This is something I will never understand ; boggles my mind. Why are people so quick into running for a lie that will only hurt them and are quick to turn up their chins and spit in the face of Jesus. Man has based Jesus off of other men instead of reading the bible for themselves. They have to be brained washed into thinking they are so smart when they run rampant as fools like scripture shows us.

Well one day soon God will serve justice and they will all know who they should of looked to for these things. Why would any person put faith in a man; really? What man on earth has ever been faithful ( not talking about when Jesus was here:) )?

Have these people ever seen a person hurt by Christ? I would say not.

Hasn't He not delivered enough proof for people? I would say so.

So why are they so hasty to believe man? Is it because they can physically see man? I would say so and I would say science is good and all but it doesn't help in this department. What is that term; "seeing is believing". I think people take this term in the wrong text and where did it come form any ways?

So if people don't want to listen about talk of Jesus or read for themselves about Him than scoff if they will. They will choose who to value and who to not; so fine, let them have what their crops will yield. Let them water their crops with salt and plant it in the shade.

But we as Christians if anyone wants to know Jesus we welcome all and any with open arms and open hearts.

I love in the bible how it talks of everything under the sun is just chasing after the wind and meaningless. How true that is.

[InTheWind]

He is not the AC but a AC.:(

[a.baker]

I'd would say it looks that way.

[bobrobert]

Let me think.

I think we are a nation with many beliefs and traditions.

Let me think.

Yep.

Religious freedom is a foundation that this country has.


WOW

Obama is right.

The christian mofia would have us believe we should hate others.

Jesus taught us to love our enemy.

Get with the program folks and start to love your enemies.

[CoreIssue]

Let me think.

I think we are a nation with many beliefs and traditions.

Let me think.

Yep.

Religious freedom is a foundation that this country has.


WOW

Obama is right.

The christian mofia would have us believe we should hate others.

Jesus taught us to love our enemy.

Get with the program folks and start to love your enemies.
The US was founded founded upon Christian principles, not Islamic or Mysticism.

There is no such thing as freedom in Islam. There is Sharia Law. Or in Mysticism, there is anarchy.

For the politically correct into situational ethics preaching absolutes, which, by the way, Christ taught, is hate. Calling evil and wrong evil and wrong is hateful by their definition.

Christ said love your enemy but also said a strong man defends his home, the soldier does not bear his sword in vain and told the Apostles to buy and carry swords with them.

Shopping Cart Theology is the tool of the so-called liberal Christians,which isn't Christian at all.

Bobrobert, the biggest sign of the End Times is Apostasy. Obama, White, the Mega Churches and such are in that bed.

[bobrobert]

You cannot believe that we should hate people.

You cannot believe that you are a judge as to who is a christian.

Name calling can be fun - but it isn't at all effective for christians to use in supporting the bible as our basis for opinions and living a christian life.

Shopping Cart Theology - that is so funny.

Who is the christian? - now that is a good question.

God knows fer sure.

[Jessie]

You cannot believe that we should hate people.

You cannot believe that you are a judge as to who is a christian.

Name calling can be fun - but it isn't at all effective for christians to use in supporting the bible as our basis for opinions and living a christian life.

Shopping Cart Theology - that is so funny.

Who is the christian? - now that is a good question.

God knows fer sure.


why are YOU pushing hate here?

you sound more like a adverstisment for obama as president.

indeed God does know for sure.


the we are all one mantra is old.
just what kindof faith is obama pushing?
faith in him?

unity in diversity is nonsense.

[bobrobert]

The US may no longer be a christian nation.

The US should be a christian nation since it is blessed in so many ways.

The US has so many resources that their is no excuse not to be a christian nation.

My guess it is easier for everyone to concentrate on TV and their computers rather than their bible.

Sad when you think about it.

[CoreIssue]

It is sad.

But the more the wealth the harder it is for people to bow to God. Ego and arrogance.

[bobrobert]

What is so sad is that most of the wealth is owned by so few.

You would think that all the poor and hungry folks would read their bibles instead of watching "reality TV", but they don't.

We can't get folks to attend church or worship with one another but put football on the TV and it is party time for the neighborhood.

[InTheWind]

Reading the Ten Commandments people can do, and try to live by but reading the bible doesn`t make a Christian.
Satan can read the bible and he`d probably rather party and watch football as he can see how many lost soles he`s suckered.
The key is for churches to start preaching repentance and how to become born again so they are filled with the HS so they won`t want to go party.

[bobrobert]

The churches in this area do alot of preaching repentance, they explain how to be born again, they try to provide fellowship and support to new christians.

Somehow they lose the battle to keep new christians.

[CoreIssue]

The churches in this area do alot of preaching repentance, they explain how to be born again, they try to provide fellowship and support to new christians.

Somehow they lose the battle to keep new christians.
Now do you define 'Christian?'

[Mpahas]

Jessus told us to love your enemys my friend but he said When the time will come people that never had faith will completly loose it becase skys shall open The nations will have WARS ! blood will spilt... but those who beilive will rejoce as soon as they see the angels come from the sky then me on the right side of my father that is the day of the apocalyps, May the holy light shine upon you and Jessus live in your heart to show you the way becase i will not be the one who shall judge you but he will

[CoreIssue]

Hmmmm.

This is sounding New Age and not Christian.

What is your belief background?

[CTZonEdit]

I really do not get all the hype for Obama.

Voting for someone because they are black, young and different is not a valid enough reason.

Did everyone just forget that he sat for 20 years in a church that spewed out the most insane rhetoric ever? Whether he believed it or not he sat there and tolerated it for 20 years until he got called out on it. Something is very morally corrupt with this man.

[InTheWind]

I really do not get all the hype for Obama.

Voting for someone because they are black, young and different is not a valid enough reason.

Did everyone just forget that he sat for 20 years in a church that spewed out the most insane rhetoric ever? Whether he believed it or not he sat there and tolerated it for 20 years until he got called out on it. Something is very morally corrupt with this man.

The people that are following him don`t care about church and that stuff, all they want is change and that`s what he is telling them he will do.
Bad group of people that have no morals and can`t be counted on to defend God or country. :(

[kay-gee]

I SO wanted Hilary to make it!!!

all the best...

[InTheWind]

I SO wanted Hilary to make it!!!

all the best...

Smart people know when there`s something terribly wrong with someone and that they would hurt the country.
We have to hope that there are enough smart people left in the country to choose the lesser of the evils this time around.
So where does that leave you, another obama supporter ?

[Jessie]

I really do not get all the hype for Obama.

Voting for someone because they are black, young and different is not a valid enough reason.

Did everyone just forget that he sat for 20 years in a church that spewed out the most insane rhetoric ever? Whether he believed it or not he sat there and tolerated it for 20 years until he got called out on it. Something is very morally corrupt with this man.

The people that are following him don`t care about church and that stuff, all they want is change and that`s what he is telling them he will do.
Bad group of people that have no morals and can`t be counted on to defend God or country. :(

ever notice how nowadays they run certain words into the ground?

like "change" it gets to the point you hope you never hear it again.

and we go thru this every election time...

its like eating too much of a certain food. you just want to spit it out.

[CoreIssue]

Yea, Obama's change, Hilary's universal health care and so on.

But the NEVER tell you how they will actually pay for it or make it work.

When it does come out it is restrict Dr. and such income. Bankrupt them. Or tell companies they can only charge so much for medicine.

What not go with a true bulk buying program instead of the farces proposed by both parties? That would be a great start.

[kay-gee]

I'm kinda glad I am not citizen. I wouldnt know who to vote for at this point.

all the best...

[InTheWind]

I'm kinda glad I am not citizen. I wouldnt know who to vote for at this point.

all the best...

Sure ya would, McCain picked a woman as a running mate.

[kay-gee]

Yee-haw! Now that is progressive! It may give McCain a push too!

all the best...

[InTheWind]

The woman has all good qualities, NRA member, hunter, bike rider, pro life, what more could ya want. :):

[Jessie]

Yee-haw! Now that is progressive! It may give McCain a push too!

all the best...

got a question for ya!

how does one be a good leader with no morals?

[kay-gee]

Wont know till it's all over and the fat lady sings, I guess!

all the best...

[Jessie]

yep waiting and seeing what the turn out will be...

Lord help us all.

[CTZonEdit]

The woman has all good qualities, NRA member, hunter, bike rider, pro life, what more could ya want. :):

The only problem is that biblically she is not allowed to lead.

[kay-gee]

Not allowed to lead what?

all the best...

[InTheWind]

That`s a new one on me too, pastor yes but VP????:scratch:

[CoreIssue]

That`s a new one on me too, pastor yes but VP????:scratch:
VP has executive authority and can become president.

God has never authorized a female ruler.

[kay-gee]

good grief!

all the best...

[CTZonEdit]

Good grief?

I take it you disagree with the established order of things as God set them then?

[kay-gee]

God set an established pattern for The Church. Not for offices of secular government. You are really stretching things in your zeal. You're going beyond mere conservatism into dark age Draconian-ism. Wow!

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

God set an established pattern for The Church. Not for offices of secular government. You are really stretching things in your zeal. You're going beyond mere conservatism into dark age Draconian-ism. Wow!

all the best...
Try reading the Bible, KG.

And literally for once, not as a social progressive interpretation document.

[CTZonEdit]

If you disagree with God then show us the difference biblically.

Show us where God ordainded any female leadership government or otherwise.

[kay-gee]

Show me where God gives a hoot about secular government. I need somewhere to start looking. The prohibition of female leadership is mentioned 3 times in NT, and the context is clearly speaking about church.

all the best...

[InTheWind]

I think we`re walking a thin line with this, where did God say a woman couldn`t be a leader of something outside of the church.
I`m voting for her and McCain, we need something now not four years from now.

[CoreIssue]

I think we`re walking a thin line with this, where did God say a woman couldn`t be a leader of something outside of the church.
I`m voting for her and McCain, we need something now not four years from now.
By the pattern set in OT Israel and Adam and Eve, just to begin.

Don't fall into the negative proof demand. That is what liberal try to argue in their doctrines.

[CTZonEdit]

Show me where God gives a hoot about secular government. I need somewhere to start looking.

Start in Genesis. Show me the order of creation and the role that God created a woman to have.

Then show me anywhere in the bible a successful Godly female ruler.

[InTheWind]

I think we`re walking a thin line with this, where did God say a woman couldn`t be a leader of something outside of the church.
I`m voting for her and McCain, we need something now not four years from now.
By the pattern set in OT Israel and Adam and Eve, just to begin.

Don't fall into the negative proof demand. That is what liberal try to argue in their doctrines.


I thought we are living under a new covenant with the NT. Ten commandments yes but law no.
You show me in the New Testament where a woman wanted to lead something outside of church and God said no. I`m not trying to say your wrong just want to see it in the NT.

[kay-gee]

Try Queen Candice of Ehiopia mentioned in Acts.

Try all the Queens of all history wo ruled over sucessful empires. Namely the British and Spainish, who enjoyed wildly sucessful reigns.

Sorry guys...all due respects...no leg to stand on, on this one!

You scare me sometimes. Please dont make the jump from "fundamentally conservative" to all out "fundamental Wack-o!" It would be a great dis-service to a great board such as CTZ.

all the best...

[kay-gee]

I'm with you on this one ITW!

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

The NT did not cancel the OT. It fulfilled part, the Mosaic Covenant was canceled and the rest remains very much in effect.

The Bible did not start over at the cross.

KG, appealing to history does not equal a Biblical argument. And defining Queens as successful shows you are using a secular standard, not a Godly one.

The British and Spanish monarchies being called successful is amazing. As a student of history there was nothing admirable back then. Tons of conquest, oppression, killing of one's own family for power, insanity due to inbreeding and senses of superiority.

And here is your claimed justification from Acts.
27So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts%208&version=31#fen-NIV-27193d)]eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians.
She wasn't even the topic of the statement, just a reference for the Eunuch.

No backing for your claim there.

You are getting desperate or sarcastic in your efforts. And most assuredly showing your liberal personal opinions outrank the Bible to you personally. Sad.

[InTheWind]

May be but it won`t stop me from voting for them. :nod:

[CoreIssue]

May be but it won`t stop me from voting for them. :nod:
That is a whole other issue.

One either votes for a main party, a third party in protest or does not vote.

We are going to get stuck with one of them and whatever one decides to do has implications and impacts. The old lesser of the evils, which is a terrible way to have to vote.

[InTheWind]

Well it kind of is a issue if your a Christian and take scripture as seriously as you do. By your way of thinking you can`t vote for a woman VP and have a clear conscience.
Not trying to be nit-picky but if your going to be that literal about a woman being a leader outside the church then voting for her would be wrong.

[CoreIssue]

Well it kind of is a issue if your a Christian and take scripture as seriously as you do. By your way of thinking you can`t vote for a woman VP and have a clear conscience.
Not trying to be nit-picky but if your going to be that literal about a woman being a leader outside the church then voting for her would be wrong.
I won't be voting for her. I am voting for Barr. ;)

I cannot in good conscience vote for Obama or McCain.

[InTheWind]

That`s a easy way out of answering my question, would because the VP is a woman biblically stop you from voting for her.

[CoreIssue]

That`s a easy way out of answering my question, would because the VP is a woman biblically stop you from voting for her.
Well, you don't vote for the VP. If you do that is a terrible way to vote.

You vote for the Presidential candidate since the VP becoming President rarely happens.

I do not like either McCain or Obama.

Would I vote for a Presidential candidate who chooses a woman? If a reasonable choice I would but not because it is a woman as VP.

Would I vote for a female President? No.

[InTheWind]

I know how too vote and that ya vote for the prez, just wanted to know if you think it`s against the bible for a woman to be VP or president.
If qualified and would serve the country well I believe I could vote for a female candidate for President.

[CoreIssue]

I know how too vote and that ya vote for the prez, just wanted to know if you think it`s against the bible for a woman to be VP or president.
If qualified and would serve the country well I believe I could vote for a female candidate for President.
I think it is.

Let me turn the question around. Have you ever seen a woman politician you liked and supported AFTER serving in office?

[InTheWind]

Doesn`t have any bearing on if i would vote for a woman for president, I may think she is very qualified for the job. There are a bunch of male presidents I didn`t like.

[InTheWind]

Wasn`t trying to get in an arguement about it bro, it just seems the argument against female leadership is a little week too me. :tiphat:

[a.baker]

O.k. me and my hubby were talking last night about McCain and Obama , now I don't want to vote again. :swoon: :D

[a.baker]

o.k. he told me associated Press and BBC were the most reliable for factual info. because they are not for either party.

I don't listen to the news because I can't trust who is saying what so I get my info. from other places. And everyones speeches are so vague you can't get much info. from them. Than they all lie and so on. Than I see so much high school mentality leaking out here and there its ridiculous.

[CoreIssue]

Not arguing, ITW. Just discussing.

You have to also look at the person as a person and the roles God establishes. And therein lies the problem.

Just for a factual basis Palin has lied numerous times in her presentations. She has accepted earmarks, she did support the bridge to nowhere, it does not take a genius to take advantage of a cash surplus she did not create, she was a member of a separatist group, even if for only 2 years and so on.

Yea, she has said some good, conservative things but where does her family fit? Do you want Dad's to take on Mom's role? Or Mom's to take on Dad's role?

I have know a lot of career people and I will tell you those who have kids can have incredibly successful professional roles but be disasters in their families.

In government you are always subject to personal schedule interruption. Sometimes it requires taking a phone call, getting dressed, and heading out the door immediately.

I am saying that there has been far too much jumping to support rather than thinking it through first.

[InTheWind]

Could be but it`s a no brainer with obama:( My vote goes to McCain because any time under obama would be to long.

[CoreIssue]

Could be but it`s a no brainer with obama:( My vote goes to McCain because any time under obama would be to long.
No argument at all. None.

But 4 years under McCain, who I do think will win, is going to set up some liberal to win. Maybe even a 3rd party if enough of the more conservative folk scream enough.

I don't think Hilary can get as far as she did this time. Just the campaigning refreshed to many Clinton memories in too many people. Their era is done, I think.

[InTheWind]

McCain seemed truly loyal and sincere about his country in his acceptance speech, there is a long military history in his family. My first thought was that by being in the middle so to speak he may be able to get something done if he doesn`t cave to the far left .
And i`m worried about the second admendment and gun laws if anyone else gets in and that`s where Palin should stand firm for our gun rights.

[CoreIssue]

No getting around he is pro illegal and a Free Trade extremist. And that is enough to reject him. Those things are killing the country.

There won't be any Country left to defend gun rights for if we don't stop those issues.

[kay-gee]

Capitalism thrives on free trade.

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Capitalism thrives on free trade.

all the best...
Learn the difference between Free Trade, which really isn't free, and Fair Trade, which actually is.

[InTheWind]

No getting around he is pro illegal and a Free Trade extremist. And that is enough to reject him. Those things are killing the country.

There won't be any Country left to defend gun rights for if we don't stop those issues.


I agree there, we`ve sold off a lot of our country already to other countries.
And KayGee knock off the short meaningless replies. If ya don`t know something about what free trade has done to our country then don`t comment at all.

[kay-gee]

My apologies. When I posted that, I thought it was a pretty self explanitory statement. For your benefit, I shall elaborate.
Capitalism is the wonderful economic system that was chosen as the model for the USA from it's beginning. It was for the first times in history, fully unleashed into a totally free market enviroment to thrive and prosper. It caters to free enterprise and rugged individualism. (cornerstones of the sacred American dream) It has done very well in 2 centuries. The USA has prospered greatly. Much wealth has been generated, with the idea that prosperity trickles down to the average citizens through jobs etc...while the rich get and stay rich. That is a fair trade off I say! Secondly, the government has huge resources to draw on as it taxes that created wealth. In this way, it is able to provide the wonderful things we all enjoy daily. Things such as schools, hi-ways, and state of the art weaponry.
Unabashed, unrestrained Capitalism has done well for you. It is what separates you from your (supposedly) socialistic loser neibours like Canada.
However, the down side...Capitalism looks after Capitalism!
Free trade or what ever you call it works for Capitalism, at this point in history. If I can make a pair of sneakers in Asia for 10 cents and still sell them here for 75 bucks, why should I give you a job just because you are an American.
I am not saying I like it. I am just trying to give a synopsis of how it operates.

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

My apologies. When I posted that, I thought it was a pretty self explanitory statement. For your benefit, I shall elaborate.
Capitalism is the wonderful economic system that was chose as the model for the USA from it's beginning.
It was one of the first times in history, it was fully unleashed into a totally free market enviroment to thrive and prosper.[/QUOTE]
It was founded as a free market within the States. But Internationally there were a full set of tariffs, fees and other costs attached to balance unfair trade practices done by foreign countries.
It caters to free enterprise and rugged individualism. (Cornerstones of the Sacred American dream) It has done very well in 2 centuries. The USA has prospered greatly. Much wealth has been generated, with the idea that prosperity trickles down to the average citizens through jobs etc...while the rich get and stay rich. Fair trade off I say!
Agree.
Secondly, the government has huge resources to draw on as it taxes that created wealth. In this way, it is able to provide the wonderful things we a enjoy dail. Things such as schools, Hi-ways, and state of the art weaponry.
The school system was originally built and and run by churches with aid from the government.

Weapons are developed by private industry who sell the systems to the government.
unabashed, unrestrained Capitalism has done well for you.
Not totally unrestrained. We do have laws governing absuse, false advertising, safety, etc.
It is what separates you from your (supposedly) socialistic loser neibours like Canada.
Yes. Government getting involved has always proven detrimental to progress.
However, the down side...Capitalism looks after Capitalism!
Only when biased toward capitalism. The majority of employment in this country are by small business owners, not big corporations.
Free trade or what ever you call it works for Capitalism, at this point in history. If I can make a pair of sneakers in Asia for 10 cents and still sell them here for 75 bucks, why should I give you a job just because you are an American.
I am not saying I like it. I am just trying to give a synopsis of how it operates.
And that reality is a recent change which failing miserably in the reprocussions. Government stuck there fingers in like Canada and others have, to a lesser degree, which has resulted in us getting hurt. Instead of Fair they have gone to an agenda of one world market system which will kill our way of life. And is killing the Canadian and European standards of living as well.

We need to back up to more of the model of the 60s and prior.

[kay-gee]

Two things I wish to add!

A couple years ago, when The US $ was worth almost 2 Cdn, I didn't hear any complaining when Americans were coming north and practically buying the country out from under our feet.

Also, I find it ironic that back when the first FTA was being negotiated between Can and US, that it was the "liberals" that were resisting it tooth and nail. It was 2 very Conservative governments. (Brian Mulroney and Ronald Reagan) that ratified it in.
It is also a fact, that it is the left wingers that show up at the WTO meetings and raise "H". Liberals resist free trade and globalization more than anyone'

I'm beginning to see some chinks in your armour now. LOL!

all the best...

[InTheWind]

I'm beginning to see some chinks in your armour now. LOL!

I don`t think anyone here thinks there are not troubles with both parties, thanks for elaborating a bit on your thoughts, though wrong. :p

[CoreIssue]

Two things I wish to add!

A couple years ago, when The US $ was worth almost 2 Cdn, I didn't hear any complaining when Americans were coming north and practically buying the country out from under our feet.
I complain about Canadian subsidized trade that hurt the US unfairly and am totally displeased with Americans who sell out America by taking jobs up there hurting us.

They live here and rip us off via other nations.

By the way, China is ripping Cananda apart right now, not the US.
Also, I find it ironic that back when the first FTA was being negotiated between Can and US, that it was the "liberals" that were resisting it tooth and nail. It was 2 very Conservative governments. (Brian Mulroney and Ronald Reagan) that ratified it in.
Sorry, won't fly. The Democrats ratified that agreement. They controlled all of Congress. The President cannot do that on his own.

But both parties are responsible for these kinds of trade agreements. No clean hands on either side.
It is also a fact, that it is the left wingers that show up at the WTO meetings and raise "H". Liberals resist free trade and globalization more than anyone'

Yea, right. Snore.

They decry the unfairness and vote for it. The biggest owners of trade companies, sitting in Congress, who trade with China and backed selling our ports were Dems. The conservatives, who are few in numbers, in Congress were the only ones who opposed it at the time.
I'm beginning to see some chinks in your armour now. LOL!

Just a little truth for your facts there.

[CoreIssue]

I'm beginning to see some chinks in your armour now. LOL!I don`t think anyone here thinks there are not troubles with both parties, thanks for elaborating a bit on your thoughts, though wrong. :p
:nod: