demon possessed?

[a.baker]

I met my boss tonight and I am so very certain there was a demon present in her. This is not a silly worry or freaking out thing this is very serious!!! It is so hard to describe. I felt this darkness surrounding her the moment I saw her from afar and when I look at her eyes they were so deep with this blackness, controlling, empty and vicious look. I am serious it was like she had her claws out ready to grab me and tear me up. It immediately made my stomach sour and I was so scared.

I am so ashamed of being scared and mad at myself but I was.

Whats going on here? I just can't put words to it. But she seemed to be snaring at me and wouldn't make much eye contact but had a nice tone in her voice while she was delivering orders. I am almost done with this job. As soon as they find a replacement for me I am out of there.

I want to look up her address and mail her a bible. You don't think she would throw it away would you?

[a.baker]

Please point me to some scripture in dealing with this... Thank you so much!

[kay-gee]

You must face these fears and over come them. I doubt very much that this person in demonized, except by you. As I have said many times, when you allow yourself to obsess on these things, they will eventually become your reality. Next thing you know, every 2nd or 3rd person will be a demon. Next thing you know, you'll be ducking behind parked cars to hide from them and so on. Then people will think..."That chick is weird!"
Stand up to these internal fears you have, and defeat them. Pop them one by one like bubbles and they will haunt you no longer.
As for the boss lady. In all likelihood, that is just her personality. There many like her all over the place. They have sad unfilled lives, then obtain a bit of percieved power as in being the boss of a work crew or something and they begin to live out their cruel fantasies. You have no idea what kind of life she is living or the challenges she is facing. Perhaps she has been molested in her life and their soured her. Whatever! Who knows, but I wouldnt jump to demon conclusions off the bat.
For every bit of evil she seems to give in her looks, return with love and joy. Jesus wins!!! all the time...every time!!!

all the best...

[DaimyoMateo]

As I have said many times, when you allow yourself to obsess on these things, they will eventually become your reality.

How true that is!

Really nothing to fear with the spirit in you.

Just continue to work as any other day.

Demons all around at all times so big deal one is in your boss.

I had a boss once who was the devil himself!.

[CoreIssue]

KG, there is demon possession and influence in the world. Same as angelic activity. Don't try to sell everything off with psychoanalysis. And no, Jesus does not win every time in this world, but he will win in the end, even if that is after death.

Baker has described how a demon possessed person appears to one who has been given the gift of discernment of spirits. And no, the attempt to explain away that gift is not that it is like being a lie detector. It means you can distinguish what spirit is operating within one.

DaimyoMateo, it is a big deal. Demons don't have to be able to touch you to harm you. They can do it via others and their own earthly power and positions.

Deep cold pit of eyes that seem to want to swallow you, shadowy presence in and around them. Instant negative reaction, overt or not, against anyone with the Holy Spirit.

Yes, the Holy Spirit protects us. As do guardian angels. But no, you are not completely insulated from them. It is called spiritual warfare.

Spiritual warfare is on many levels. Human/human, angel/demon, human/angel and human demon. All are very real.

A.baker, unless a person wants free of a demon there is nothing you can do. As the Bible says, to cast a demon out of someone who does not want it gone is a mistake, it will come back with more and even strong demons with it to combat you later. So, be strong and true to God, do not fear the woman, spiritually and recognize her secular power and be cautious of it. Show the contrast to others and that may sway some to God. Might even prick her humanity and get her to want to be free.

[CTZonEdit]

I agree with Core here. This is not something to be taken lightly and I believe your discernment, baker is right on.

Scoff if you want KG, but you really have no idea what you are talking about or up against if you dismiss her discernment here. This is not some personal issue that she can "self-help" herself thru, its a spiritual battle with forces you apparently don't understand.

[Jessie]

I wonder if its more prevelent than we'd like to realize?

my mom and sis have a darkness over them.
one of my mothers husbands many yrs ago, (as the story was told to me)
told her not to look at him that way, (apperently he was a christian)
because she looked like a vampire to him. now I've never heard them say this man was nuts or anything. but I sense a darkness over them. not in the eyes though.
even growing up there was a feeling to me of something wrong like something was in the house. very unsettling for a kid. a uneasyness. and mom was playing around with tarot and the 3rd eye thing yet going faithfully to church every sunday.
I knew that was wrong even as a young child.
also, my mom has mentioned a couple times over the yrs of living in a house
that was haunted (at least as they say) and that a black hooded figure with red eyes showed up in her room. one of her friends saw it too. and she was maybe in her teens
so I dont know what to think or if thats even the truth. just told that.
gosh why would you tell a young kid that?
and one thing too, I would like to ask, when my mil had surgery a few yrs ago,
and we went to the hopsital well, she was still under anistethia coming out of it,
and she was like a mad bull. this hard cold presense imminating from her.
even my sons girlfriend who was not a christian could sense it.
I wonder if that was that? I've never sensed such a thing before like that.

sorry not trying to hijack your thread a.baker just wondering since it was good you brought this up.

I have seen the dark black eyes in my sil one time. boy that was scary.
anger imminated from those eyes, and too, she only looked square right into my oldest sons eyes. acted like anyone else did'nt exist...
and she was passing him on the way out the door.

[kay-gee]

So, if someone offers reason and rational advice, they are a scoffer. Hmmm OKay!

all the best...

[CTZonEdit]

Messing around with the spiritual realm is not some kinda game.

Tarot and Oujii are portals that demons can use. If they can get you to believe these "silly" games have power then you are more likely to take the next step and the next.

You see demons want you to think they dont exist or its just "fun" or worse that you're crazy or loony.

And Jesse it seems that what you describe is demonic influence.

[CTZonEdit]

So, if someone offers reason and rational advice, they are a scoffer. Hmmm OKay!

all the best...

In this case yes. Your advice was not helpful to what she is describing exactly. And you mocked the relevance of the spirit realm.

What she describes is classic demonic influence.

[kay-gee]

But tarot cards and Ouigi boards arent being discussed here. We are talking about confronting somebody in a work situation with a bad dis-position. Happens thousands of times each and every day. Especially in large cities, where people are stressed out.

all te best...

[Jessie]

But tarot cards and Ouigi boards arent being discussed here. We are talking about confronting somebody in a work situation with a bad dis-position. Happens thousands of times each and every day. Especially in large cities, where people are stressed out.

all te best...


it was my post on the tarot.

seems I've been surrounded by demonic influences all my life..
:faint:

it really got bad when I was baptized at the age of about 9.
my mom started picking me apart, over just stupid stuff.

KG I know that those things can tell people what will happen.
my grandma and mom had a friend named frieda when I was very young,
and she did the tarot, her so called knowledge was not with names but descriptions of what she saw. and they were accurate.
then later when my mom threw me out the door at 16 I ended up at my uncles, his wife had a friend who knew he was going to rape me.
she tried her darndest to get my aunt to send me home, but to no avail.
this woman also, drew a pic free handed of my great grandma,
who was very dear to me, (gave it to me) did it with the "getting the vibes" thing, and it was an exact portrait of how I remember her.
then she decribed me right down to the T. saying there is a long blonde haired woman who stands behind you, very tradiional she protects you.
this woman described who I am internally, and even the clothing that so called woman was wearing. that night I wanted so bad to leave,
to run away, but I was'nt going from the frying pan into the fire, portland streets even then where no place to be.
and she had a huge bible with a huge crystal ball in front of it.
I think she was a caring person, she put her hand on me and prayed over me (all the time I was like God please please protect me!) but
what she was into was NOT good. esp. it was not from the Lord.
also, I have heard that now she lives next to my uncle, and she still claims that a bad spirit is around him. I believe it, it is true.
but still shes not right with the Lord.
and there-in lyes the hook that a lot of people get caught in.


gosh I'd just love to be around Godly Christian people who just did'nt have this horrid influences. but not many around.

also, I have heard others over the yrs, talk that those who have demons can sense those who have the HS, and vise versa.
I believe that is true.

and A.baker, the nice talk you mentioned out of your boss.
sounds like my mom

my kids refer to my mom as the lady in the movie/book called "flowers in the attic".

and too when my oldest and youngest where in that bad car accident a few yrs ago, when I told my grandma, it was like cold most people would be concerned say something like are they ok? what happened or something but it was cold nothing. my mom laughed to my oldest sons face about it. more of a quiet laugh with a smile.
absolutly sickening.

and yet, these folks love to be in church. but their spirit is way off.

ok sorry for hijacking the thread!

[CoreIssue]

So, if someone offers reason and rational advice, they are a scoffer. Hmmm OKay!

all the best...
I agree with CTZ.

Concerns me, KG, how easily you dismiss issues with connection to prophecy, demons, angels, and literalism. Too much situational ethics thinking.

I know there are many 'Christians' into your thinking. Plus those who see the Bible as a philosophy book and not a spiritual book.

On a humanist board there are huge number of issues you would side with them on.

Absolutely not saying you are not born-again. But I am saying your Canadian liberalism has a bigger hold on you than you think.

But with that I will not continue to hijack the thread. Other threads would deal with this much better. :tiphat:

[a.baker]

Oh Kaygee boss or not this is very real. It doesn't matter what I have heard about her or her position has nothing to do with it when I finally met her. This woman has something dark within her and around her and its not a freaking out thing on my behalf like I've said. To help defend my case I have worked in a funeral home around bodies for 2 1/2 years alone at night and it never bothered me, in fact it was quite peaceful. I have had so many bosses and have had known so many controlling mean cold angry people in my life and like I've said; I have NEVER seen this in some one before!!!

People that have known this woman for a few years now say she was never like this before and something weird is going on with her.

This is not something you find from a person with a hurtful or painful life or past. Or someone who has a stressful life. And no, no one thinks I am weird at work and I wouldn't duck behind cars. Others sense some sort of blackness within her too. Without me saying much of anything after I already saw her they just came out and said it too. This woman has a great dis test for me and won't make eye contact with me but will with others. First time I have met her. Everyone talks of how good of a team leader I am so she is not mad at me for doing a bad job or anything. I would tell you more but it would throw the thread off.

So at any rate I am not making something becoming real that is not already there. This is very real and serious like I have said. You know I am known for empathizing with people too but this is not the same subject here.

I had much physical and spiritual reaction just seeing her from afar like I have said and it was draining. Its not an oh the skies falling kinda thing here.

By the way her name is not in the phone book so mailing her a bible is out of question.

Does anyone know of some scripture to direct me too to help me with this for the next time I see or talk to her. I need to arm myself with His Word on this exact topic (and of course pray too).

Speaking of games and such there is Wicans (did I spell that right?) too and they are also promised a great power once they get into it. Thats how it sucks them in.

It's o.k. Jessie this topic is meant for all not just my own personal experience. So go ahead :) :) (I am not in the post reply box but smilies any ways)

I am so glad I am not the only one aware of this and see's this and knows the feeling from this. This is something I have seen talked about and read in scripture but I don't remember where. But this is the first time I see it and quite frankly I don't know how to handle it. Like I said I need some scripture as to see what God says. Thank you so much for your time with this.

[InTheWind]

I think ya should just stay away from her and don`t communicate with her any more than you have too. I think dealing with demons is way above the capabilities of the general Christian and you could get caught up in something dangerous.
I`ve had Pentecostal people tell me it`s our responsibility to take authority over the demons and cast them out but i think you could be treading in dangerous waters if one is not equipped to handle them.
I will continue to pray for you and the situation. :pray:

[Jessie]

I think ya should just stay away from her and don`t communicate with her any more than you have too. I think dealing with demons is way above the capabilities of the general Christian and you could get caught up in something dangerous.
I`ve had Pentecostal people tell me it`s our responsibility to take authority over the demons and cast them out but i think you could be treading in dangerous waters if one is not equipped to handle them.
I will continue to pray for you and the situation. :pray:

I absolutly agree!

[CoreIssue]

The Bible recognizes such are out there. It is not that uncommon.

How to deal with it? Just be confident you cannot be spiritually touched by such while being aware such can work through others around you.

Understand the war here, in the main, is not with her, but how it impacts those around her and you. It is a mistake to focus on her.

I worked around such. I kept an eye on him, was polite and civil to him, tried to reach him as able and did my best to neutralize the effects he had on others.

That is about the sum of what you can do.

We have some in government.

It is a war.

[DaimyoMateo]

Brew some coffee at work but instead of tap water use holy water and give your boss some and see what happens.

[CoreIssue]

Brew some coffee at work but instead of tap water use holy water and give your boss some and see what happens.
Considering holy water comes from a pagan ritual I would not expect it to be any problem for her. :whistlin:

[a.baker]

Mateo are you kidding me... holy water? Sorry but doesn't exist.

I agree I should stay away from her. It is above anything I can do. Not for me.

Some one else tonight really really tried to talk me into staying and I told them no. I have too many conflictions to stay at this job. I need to be a mother first.

[DaimyoMateo]

yes I am kidding you. I mean wear some garlic.

[CoreIssue]

yes I am kidding you. I mean wear some garlic.
:D So she is a vampire? :eek:

[DaimyoMateo]

Garlic sometimes keeps everyone away. :nod:

[CoreIssue]

Garlic sometimes keeps everyone away. :nod:
Ain't that the truth!! :p

[kay-gee]

Whack her on the head with a Bible!

all the best...

[kay-gee]

I just pray that my association with CTZ doesn't cause me to begin having these experiences. I do not want to be walking the aisles at Wal-mart and having to keep an eye open for skulking demons!

all the best...

[Jessie]

I just pray that my association with CTZ doesn't cause me to begin having these experiences. I do not want to be walking the aisles at Wal-mart and having to keep an eye open for skulking demons!

all the best...


LOL,
you know I had a freind at walmat she was apache.
the last time I saw her, she told me she had to come in early before the store opened and guess who she saw? sam walton walking in the back.
I thought oh dear. but shes open to that stuff.

dont fear them nor go looking for them. your fine!

[CoreIssue]

I just pray that my association with CTZ doesn't cause me to begin having these experiences. I do not want to be walking the aisles at Wal-mart and having to keep an eye open for skulking demons!

all the best...
It is called the Gift of Discernment of Spirits. It comes with sanctification, meaning spiritual growth, for some, not all.

Every saint has a gift. The more unique gifts only come to those the Holy Spirit can use in his work.

It has a purpose. Nothing casual about it.

And you are right in the sense that it will change one's perspective on 'reality.' Book knowing and living it are two vastly different realities.

Really, how many know Heaven is there and how many embrace the reality?

[kay-gee]

Thanks Jessie. I needed that reassurance.

Of course I believe in the spiritual realm, but when it comes to demons and ghots etc... what purpose is being served other than scaring people?

all the best...

[roman8]

Thanks Jessie. I needed that reassurance.

Of course I believe in the spiritual realm, but when it comes to demons and ghots etc... what purpose is being served other than scaring people?

all the best...

I dont believe a demon has to be scary, to be powerful, especialy to those with
out the gift of disernment , which I believe I need more of. :pray: It may appear very nice at first . For me personaly I am just now seeing the darkness I allowed in my life.

[CoreIssue]

Thanks Jessie. I needed that reassurance.

Of course I believe in the spiritual realm, but when it comes to demons and ghots etc... what purpose is being served other than scaring people?

all the best...
To work for their own agenda.

If you think they can only say 'boo!' and look scary, think again.

[Archer2394]

People being possesed with devils today is just as real as it was when Jesus walked in the flesh some 2000 years ago.. Being able to discern this spiritual presense is a 'gift'.. I 100 percent agree with that.. My own testimony is one of deliverance from wicked devils that controlled me and kept me locked in darkness and condemnation. I will post that some time in the future. The gift of discerning of spirits is one that was 'given' to me.. I did not work for it or earn it .

I did have a strong desire after He saved me to understand what He saw and what His disciples saw when they cast out devils.. Hollywood would tell you that there was a little red horned creature hanging over their head with a pitchfork... that is so far from the truth.. its not even funny... some in so called Chrisitan churches would tell you that the devil is this hideous and ugly creature with a crink in his back.. that is so far from the truth too..

Jesus said the 'light' of the body is the 'eye'.... He was teaching us something there.. When I became a Christian I didnt understand it but when I was led to understand this gift He was giving me.. He began to show me.... Jesus often referred to the 'body' as a 'house'.. and he referred to wicked spirits as 'strongmen'.. these 'strongmen' abide in houses.. and those houses are human bodies....
He said a 'house' will have light in it... if its the 'right' light then your following Him.. if the house is filled with the 'wrong' light.. and if thats the case.. how 'great' is that wrong light or darkness..

Do a greek word study on the word 'serprent'.. and see what it correlates with as far as 'vision' and 'sight'.. Jesus gave His disciples 'power' to tread upon serpents and scorpions.. yes literal scoprions and snakes.. but also the 'enemy' or your spiritual enemy... The word 'power' in Luke 10 is a word called 'exousia' .. I give unto you 'power'.. He said.. that means liberty and freedom with no 'fear' of them....... to walk in and amongst that spiritual wickedness casting it out when you were called to do so... In reality you have 'to see' it before you can cast it out.. it all centers on the 'eyes' of an individual.. as He said... the 'light' of the body is the EYE...

In reality, those wicked spirits will recognize a child of God... as they did Paul in the book of Acts.. they even recognized Jesus when they came to Him and said.. ' we 'know' who you are... Jesus .. Son of the Most High...thou art the Holy One of Isreal.. torment us not.....' those wicked devils will be the ones who will be most nervous of you.. if you are led by His Spirit and walking in Truth.. Today, the devil knows that Jesus the Christ saved me Feb 3 1994, and I can tell you from experience and without a doubt that 'they' tremble at the name of Jesus.. and they 'know' who Jesus the Christ has redeemed and calls His Children..

I encourage you to read and do a word study on the word 'serpent' and all the words surrounding that word.. You'll begin to see how it ties in with 'vision or sharpness of vision ' and 'sight .. jealous side glance or sight....'... this ties in with the 'light of the body is the eye'... You can discern 'who' is in the house...... the 'eyes, eyebrows and certain characteristics of the forehead 'the brow' are a window to that house and its occupants... you will begin to see those who are possessed with devils.. their eyes give them away...

I have had 'experiences' in the past with casting out devils and driving them away..... This is as real as the five fingers on your hand.. and its not to be taken lightly...

There has always been a saying...

The lights are always on... but whose in the house...

You can discern who is in the 'house'.... My prayer for you is that His Widsom and Understanding may be given to you in greater measure... 'seeing' as He saw and His disciples saw...

[kay-gee]

let me chew on that one for a while.

al the best...

[kay-gee]

Being that very little was known about psychology (the mind), in the first century, any kind of exhibited abnormal behaviour would be associated to demons. It was the only way to understand it.
Some examples: Magdalene with 7 demons...classic schizophrenia
Man in the tombs........Psychopathic insane
Boy foaming at mouth...in today would be known as Hydrophobia (rabes)
Ask yourself this...Do recall even one time, a successful defense in a court of law, where the persons crime can be attributed to having a demon and proven?
Just something to thik about...Only an opinion on my part!

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Being that very little was known about psychology (the mind), in the first century, any kind of exhibited abnormal behaviour would be associated to demons. It was the only way to understand it.
Some examples: Magdalene with 7 demons...classic schizophrenia
Man in the tombs........Psychopathic insane
Boy foaming at mouth...in today would be known as Hydrophobia (rabes)
Ask yourself this...Do recall even one time, a successful defense in a court of law, where the persons crime can be attributed to having a demon and proven?
Just something to thik about...Only an opinion on my part!

all the best...
Let me see, you dismiss prophecy, demons and such as symbolic creations of those who are not enlightened enough to see the truth.

What about the demons entering the pigs and drowning themselves? Flowery lie to give zest the incident? So much for the veracity of the writer.

Hope you realize that you are calling all of us who have seen, experienced or have the gift of discernment of spirits mentally ill.

Yes, mental illness can be misinterpreted as demons and such. But you are saying the Bible is wrong, giving false explanations that now people like you can set right with theorized explanations.

Tell me why you refuse to just read it literally? Do you understand that when you dismiss demons and prophecy with your arguments you MUST also dismiss God and Christ? Else you are appointing yourself the determiner of what is literal and real and what is not?

Tell you what, if you ever experience something seeing a demon and later waking up because something is bumping your bed, you see the covers moving, something grabs our ankle, pulls you out of bed, pulls your leg under the bed and the next day you have a hand print purple bruise on your ankle three times normal size then tell me demons are not real.

Just because you don't have the gift or discernment or have not been attacked, don't dismiss it or those who have.

[kay-gee]

Good point!

all the best...

[Jessie]

I encourage you to read and do a word study on the word 'serpent' and all the words surrounding that word.. You'll begin to see how it ties in with 'vision or sharpness of vision ' and 'sight .. jealous side glance or sight....'... this ties in with the 'light of the body is the eye'... You can discern 'who' is in the house...... the 'eyes, eyebrows and certain characteristics of the forehead 'the brow' are a window to that house and its occupants... you will begin to see those who are possessed with devils.. their eyes give them away...


can you explain????

[a.baker]

See Kaygee my concern with you here is, is that if you dismiss something in scripture than what else do you dismiss? Opinion or not this is your heart speaking. If you don't faithfully believe in Scripture as a whole, nothing but Truth, intertwining within itself, all crafted and created by God, whether you understand all or not, than what is your view of the bible? If one doesn't understand something that is o.k. Through reading scripture and prayer God will give you understanding. He will also work through others to help you better understand. Hey; I nor does anyone know all. God has told us only what we need to know. We are all still learning and gaining understanding as we grow.

[kay-gee]

I do not, nor will I ever dismiss scripture. You have to understand, it was written in such a way so that the people in the events themselves could have understood.

To give you an example that maybe you can see what I'm talking about.

We always talk about sunset and sunrise. We have khnown for some years, that the sun neither goes up or down, but is a stationary star, and everthing else revolves around it. At the time the phrases were coined, it was basically understood that the sun rose and set. We have not changed the literal figure even though we know more about it. Is that any more clear?

The Lord told the disciples...The Father knows the number of the hairs on your head. He could just as easily said The father knows your exact genetic DNA code and every atom and molecule of every cell in your body. What use or sense would that have made to a collection of first century peasants?
I would never suggest the Lord or the Bible is wrong in what it says. I'm am flabbergasted that you would even think that of me.

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

I do not, nor will I ever dismiss scripture. You have to understand, it was written in such a way so that the people in the events themselves could have understood.Prove it for when you dismiss demons, in example.

You cannot. You assume and dismiss literal words. As with the demons entering pigs and drowning themselves.

That is seeing the Bible as a socially relevant document that is permeating the liberal churches.
To give you an example that maybe you can see what I'm talking about.

We always talk about sunset and sunrise. We have khnown for some years, that the sun neither goes up or down, but is a stationary star, and everthing else revolves around it. At the time the phrases were coined, it was basically understood that the sun rose and set. We have not changed the literal figure even though we know more about it. Is that any more clear?
No. It does not let you off the hook. It does not escape such as demons entering the pigs and drowning themselves. It does not let you off the hook where it literally says Israel is restored as covenant nation. It does not let you off the hook on literal descriptions of Israel in the future in Revelation.

You cannot escape such with the explanation you are trying here.

You cannot escape the very real experiences of Christians with demons unless you are calling us nuts.

You cannot escape the literal statement that driving a demon out of someone who didn't want it results in it returning with more that are far worse.
The Lord told the disciples...The Father knows the number of the hairs on your head. He could just as easily said The father knows your exact genetic DNA code and every atom and molecule of every cell in your body. What use or sense would that have made to a collection of first century peasants?
False argument. Even today it carries more impact to refer to something visible to all than something like DNA.
I would never suggest the Lord or the Bible is wrong in what it says. I'm am flabbergasted that you would even think that of me.

all the best...
I am stating your assumptions demand it, as in the example of the demons entering the pigs. You tried to explain the demon in the man as a psychological condition which thus demands the entering the pigs and running into to water to drown was fluff and exaggeration that was not true.

You cannot cut a context into parts and only deal with the parts that suit you.

I notice you have made NO attempt to deal with issues like the pigs or what I told you about MY personal experience.

Did I experience it or was I nuts?

You do NOT understand God gifts those who will use the gifts properly. Not those who will not use it or dismiss it. Or that those gifted with discernment WILL be attacked to try to nullify the purpose the gift because the gift does NOT allow the demons to hide or blend in. We know they are there, even when invisible to all others.

[kay-gee]

I do concede on the story with the pigs. Demons present there for sure!

all the best...

[kay-gee]

I do not dismiss prophecy, but refuse to get caught up in the speculative prophecy, so rampant in the religious world now.

all the best...

[a.baker]

I am sorry Kaygee if I offended you again that was not my intention but that is what I see with what you stated. I better understand what your saying here but I have to agree with Core. That one example of a couple of men that tried to use Jesus' name as some sort of magic word to get a demon to leave someone; now I remember reading that some where in the new testament. That demon was aggravated and turned around and brutally attacked the men. Scripture says they walked away unrecognizable because of the beating they got. Now think of this. If that man just needed some sort of physical healing why would he attack someone who was trying to help him? Why would the name Jesus (used in wrong terms) turned on some sort of switch?

Story of the pigs is a good one to think of too.

Hey do you know that show from t.v. called 20/20? I view that show as pretty factual. To give you a physical example that something physical unexplained of an experience of someone who was demon possessed I will tell you this episode I saw when I was like 10 years old. This man was crazy so he went to an insane asylum (not sure if spelling is right there). They gave him an evaluation. This man claimed to be the devil or something. When they asked him questions about Satan and a variety like the same, they said he would start to get immediate boils on his forehead and the whites of his eyes would get blood red. He would stop talking and kinda just sit there in a tense daze. This baffled doctors that tried to look at him to help evaluate him.

The only point here that I am making is that demons can be aggrivated and they are very real.

Satan has his army too and they will worm their way into someone who wants it for their benefit. So demon possession does exist then and today.

What we have seen is very real. I will say this again. I have never in my life was one to get into superstition, games some teens play with, being gullible, listening to others stories about ghosts and such... This experience I had came at me out of no where, was unexplained to what I saw and felt, and it was like no other I have ever seen to a point where I had to come here and ask and start this thread. So because I know myself best next to Jesus who knows me better, I know for a fact this was not my imagination or nerves by any means. I don't know how to defend my case as an example to you to better understand in any way that I already have not. Like I said this is very serious and not meant for mocking.

Kaygee you don't want to say that this is how they understood in the bible and this is the proof we have today of what really happened; because if you start thinking this way about this, than what are you going to think of with the next scripture you read? So many things you could try to explain away and that would turn the bible into a book and nothing more. I cannot be quiet, but will if need be. But I see the path of this type of thinking of where it can lead and it is not good.

Please no offense to be taken when I have a concern for a brother who could be heading in a wrong direction.

Now a lot of your ways of thinking on stuff like this sounds exactly like a response I get from my husband who does not believe. Please think on that for a minute. He believes there is a god but he denies Jesus is it. You should see the way he scoffs at the HS, demons or other celestial beings. He doesn't understand and would debate til his face is blue on his understanding. My husband is a very smart man and a good husband. See he once believed when he was a teen and because of the actions of his Christian mother he started to resent her (not sure if I should call her a Christian...) . So to set out he started to have these thoughts to prove her wrong in some way. Well these thoughts meant to provoke her (teenagers) became his own thoughts and now he sees the bible the same as any other religious book and no longer as Gods word but just some other belief.

This example is why I have concerns for you Kaygee, not by any means to offend. Sometimes things get to a point where all we can do is pray for each other. And believe me I have asked God that if I am wrong in any way to make it so strong in heart of my error. And you know what? God has made my heart yearn for your understanding even more and He has pointed me to scripture all over the bible of things that relate to this situation.

But now I feel I have said everything I could possibly say and I will leave it to you and God and pray for your understanding on these things. Remember through faith sometimes we just accept because of our faith . We cannot find the deatil to every question but we must have faith to know that no matter the scripture God wouldn't lie to us or need us to translate His Word into something else down the road of time. Scripture was meant for than and now; how it is written.

I hope you understand where I am coming from and my intentions. This is not an attack on you but only love for a brother.

[CoreIssue]

I do concede on the story with the pigs. Demons present there for sure!

all the best...
Thank you!

So, by extrapolation you also must concede since the Bible is God's word when it says demons it means demons. :tiphat:

[CoreIssue]

I do not dismiss prophecy, but refuse to get caught up in the speculative prophecy, so rampant in the religious world now.

all the best...
Agree there is speculative prophecy. I can give you centuries worth of such.

But those who are the worst about doing that are the ones who do not read literally. The literally have no foundation for their reasoning.

But don't try to excuse yourself by claiming to not get caught up in it. You have a position and have tried to tear down the literalists here. So look in a mirror and say speculator because you refuse to read literally, as in the return of Israel and so on.

[kay-gee]

I've tried to tear down the literalists? interesting.

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

I've tried to tear down the literalists? interesting.

all the best...
Yep. We cite versus and personal experiences with demons and you say it is a psychological issue.

We challenge Amills and others spiritualizing verses and you make it sound like we are unable to cope with this world and are seeking escape.

We point out that we are to stand against sin and sinful ways and you tell us we are just way tensed up and should go with the flow. You don't see some issues as all that bad in fact.

Every important issue that hinges on literally reading the Bible you lay a personal deficiency on us as a response, not what the Bible says.

Hey! We love ya guy and enjoy talking to you. But you really don't like literalism and try to shut down literalists personally, not doctrinally.

Too much Canadian liberalism in you. Sure, for Canada you probably are called conservative. But not for Biblical literalists.

This topic alone demonstrates it well. The US have denominations where demons are defined as disease and mental problems, no such thing as actual spirits that are demons.

We have denominations where Christianity is a philosophy of life. They don't buy Hell, repentance, sin or any of that. You are NOT in that group.

We have a lot that believe the Bible is a cultural book written by Man to help them deal with worldly realities and convey their concepts of God. You are partially into that.

Nope. Fully believe you are a born-again brother. You are one of us on CTZ and that I will defend you on. But families do differ and argue. :D