Embracing His Presence

[dontuknowit]

I think that they might be on to something at this conference http://www.worshipinstitute.com/. We really need to get outside of seeking to be entertained during worship and truly seek God's presence.

[a.baker]

I didn't look at the link... I don't have a lot of time but I wanted to comment. I agree with you on the whole entertainment thing at church. Everyone is more worried about the congregation being the audience rather than God being the audience. This comes back to baptizing and other things (I was turned down for a baptism at my old church because it wasn't going to be done during the service, I had to leave and it was my last day there and God told me the night before to be baptized. The pastor held tradition higher than the bible that day). Everyone is so worried about others being entertained to where it comes down to the littlest things... we have to watch others sing about and praise God instead of us all doing it together. Don't get me wrong a choir is nice but everyone should join. Church is a place to worship together not to put on a show.

I am coming to find that Gods church just does not exist here in the world and it makes me home sick.

[CoreIssue]

I think that they might be on to something at this conference http://www.worshipinstitute.com/. We really need to get outside of seeking to be entertained during worship and truly seek God's presence.
Hmmm. His presence?

Looking at the site I see music, singing and emotionalism. Where are the lessons, teaching and such from the Bible?

Seeking 'presence' is a loaded phrase in churches today. Normally means being charged up like a battery.

God's presence comes in being born-again and grows by sanctification, meaning learning, change and wisdom.

[dontuknowit]

God's presence comes in being born-again and grows by sanctification, meaning learning, change and wisdom.

So are you saying that you don't experience his presence when you participate in corporate worship?

[CoreIssue]

God's presence comes in being born-again and grows by sanctification, meaning learning, change and wisdom.So are you saying that you don't experience his presence when you participate in corporate worship?
I experience his presence in my everyday walk of life. It is not a special thing only for when your hands are up in the air, singing or such.

As a born-again believer it is an every moment thing. It gets stronger via sanctification, which include just pondering upon his word.

[a.baker]

:hug: That is the way it is Core! :D

[a.baker]

I read in the bible today in NT that God won't forgive one who gives blasphemy against the Spirit. We see so many that do this today.

[dontuknowit]

I experience his presence in my everyday walk of life. It is not a special thing only for when your hands are up in the air, singing or such.

As a born-again believer it is an every moment thing. It gets stronger via sanctification, which include just pondering upon his word.

I don't deny that through sanctification there comes a greater connection to God, but don't you also see the benefit from worshipping corporately?

[CoreIssue]

I experience his presence in my everyday walk of life. It is not a special thing only for when your hands are up in the air, singing or such.

As a born-again believer it is an every moment thing. It gets stronger via sanctification, which include just pondering upon his word.I don't deny that through sanctification there comes a greater connection to God, but don't you also see the benefit from worshipping corporately?
I hope I am not misunderstanding you, so if I am please correct me.

If you mean coming together to study, fellowship and even sing, sure I do.

But if you mean it in the Pentecostal like perspective of shouting, jumping, waving hands all over and such, no, I don't. It isn't Biblical, it is emotional.

Paul tells us to conduct ourselves in a way that does not make the unsaved see us as nut cases, overtly emotional and such.

The jumping and all of that, even Biblically in the OT, was done by pagans into mysticism, occult and other such practices. It hinges on emotions, not real spirituality.

Many do not realize that such activities produce hormones and such in the brain and body that bring on a euphoria and is addictive. They interpret it as the Holy Spirit when it is them.

[dontuknowit]

So what's your take about David's dancing?
2 Sam 6:14 David, wearing a linen ephod, danced before the LORD with all his might.....
2 Sam 6:22 I will become even more undignified than this, and I will be humiliated in my own eyes. But by these slave girls you spoke of, I will be held in honor."

[CoreIssue]

So what's your take about David's dancing?
2 Sam 6:14 David, wearing a linen ephod, danced before the LORD with all his might.....
2 Sam 6:22 I will become even more undignified than this, and I will be humiliated in my own eyes. But by these slave girls you spoke of, I will be held in honor."
It wasn't worship, but a celebration leading the Ark on the road, not in the Temple. Big difference. They never danced in the Temple and there is no example in the NT early churches of such either.

[a.baker]

dontuknowit it is so good to worship together and share the joy we find in our Lord but I agree with Core; we don't want to scare anyone away who is not a follower of Him yet. Others are watching us so it is good to show this peace, love and strength God gives us but no we don't want to come off as weird. And yes like Core said; we don't want to mix emotion with the HS. People in the NT spoke of God and Jesus with such a confidence and wisdom that they received from God and thats what makes it such a strong proof (among many other things of course). Those people lived it out every day no matter what stones were being thrown at them. Now thats proof.

[dontuknowit]

Do you really think that there is some kind of limit or parameter that God has for worship? That some how as you are moving your body (arms raised, feet stomping, body spinning) with a heart towards him that He doesn't commune with you? Could you be open to the possibility of santification as you are commanding your body in dance going against your flesh's desire not to worship God?

I think that perhaps the thoughts of what others will think or feel have less to do with their response and more to do with the boundaries that you have placed upon your relationship with God.

[CoreIssue]

Do you really think that there is some kind of limit or parameter that God has for worship? That some how as you are moving your body (arms raised, feet stomping, body spinning) with a heart towards him that He doesn't commune with you? Could you be open to the possibility of santification as you are commanding your body in dance going against your flesh's desire not to worship God?

I think that perhaps the thoughts of what others will think or feel have less to do with their response and more to do with the boundaries that you have placed upon your relationship with God.
Show me in the Bible, OT or NT where such worship was done or promoted.

How we conduct ourselves is a message to others. I will go with Paul on this.

What you are promoting is what came with the Charismatic and Pentecostal Movements. Both these movements are very new historically and both, if you do the research, have attachments to mystical, occult and New Age founders. Those practices are historical norms in those religions.

That is like holy water, Mary and such Catholicism imported from pagan religions over the centuries.

I am saying it is physical stimuli that appeals to the flesh that doers of such are interpreting as spiritually being in touch with the Holy Spirit.

Again, the OT and NT talks about his worship covering millennia. What you are speaking of is in the OT but in pagan religions. It is also mentioned in general by Paul telling a church not to do it.