And Obama Wept

[lighthouse]

:grr:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/and-obama-wept.html

And Obama Wept

Describing various encounters with Obama supporters, she writes, "Excuse me, but this sounds more like a cult than a political campaign. The language used here is the language of evangelical Christianity – the Obama volunteers speak of 'coming to Obama' in the same way born-again Christians talk about 'coming to Jesus.'...So I say, we should all get a grip, stop all this unseemly mooning over Barack, see him and the political landscape he is a part of in a cooler, clearer, and more realistic light, and get to work."


"We are the ones we've been waiting for," Obama said. "This time can be different because this campaign for the presidency of the United States of America is different. It's different not because of me. It's different because of you."



Then there's MSNBC's Chris Matthews who tells Felix Gillette in the New York Observer, “I’ve been following politics since I was about 5. I’ve never seen anything like this. This is bigger than Kennedy. [Obama] comes along, and he seems to have the answers. This is the New Testament."

And behold, Obama met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.


very creepy
if true

[InTheWind]

I expect anything is possible and nothing would surprise me, i think the AC is just around the corner. :(

[lighthouse]

that is exactly what I was thinking

[CoreIssue]

Many ac's will come before the AC.

Remember when Michael Jackson was the JW coming?

[InTheWind]

I wasn`t implying Obama was the AC, i just think all this is leading to the AC coming soon.
What`s with all the shootings all of a sudden, seems they get worse before elections. hmmmmmm

[CoreIssue]

I wasn`t implying Obama was the AC, i just think all this is leading to the AC coming soon.
What`s with all the shootings all of a sudden, seems they get worse before elections. hmmmmmm
Understood and agree.

[lighthouse]

one never knows
the crowda worship this man
kool aid any one
and if he does get shot and returns to life...
hmmm
he would be indeed americas man on horseback

time is short
so very short

look up for our redemption draws nigh
indeed it is even at hand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[seraphim79]

hmm. I never had thought of that. Has anyone seen this video yet? It is a little long but worth watching I think.

http://www.eyeblast.tv/Public/Video.aspx?rsrcID=2036

[CoreIssue]

hmm. I never had thought of that. Has anyone seen this video yet? It is a little long but worth watching I think.

http://www.eyeblast.tv/Public/Video.aspx?rsrcID=2036
I am one who follows elections closely.

Obama is the most dangerous, and to me, anti-Christian candidate out there. His 'Gospel' is a social agenda. Liberation Theology is not about Christ, but a socialist movement.

[lighthouse]

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai...112.guest.html

THINGS YOU CAN'T SAY ABOUT OBAMA:

RUSH: With Obama we started out, we couldn't talk about his big ears 'cause that made him nervous. We've gone from that to this: Not only can we not mention his ears...

We can't talk about his mother.

We can't talk about his father.

We can't talk about his grandmother unless he does, brings her up as a "typical white person."

We can't talk about his wife, can't talk about his preacher, can't talk about his terrorist friends, can't talk about his voting record, can't talk about his religion.

We can't talk about appeasement.

We can't talk about color; we can't talk about lack of color.

We can't talk about race. We can't talk about bombers and mobsters who are his friends. We can't talk about schooling. We can't talk about his name, "Hussein."

We can't talk about his lack of experience. Can't talk about his income. Can't talk about his flag pin.

This started out we can't call him a liberal.

It started out we just couldn't talk about his ears.

Now we can't say anything about him.


Obama's arrogance knows no bounds. Oh wait He's a liberal!!

Hey, Obama: You're running for President, Not Dictator of the United States!!

[Jessie]

scary stuff...

all these want to led the people to "worship"
but worship what!

his quote,
we are the ones we've been waiting for"

what is that supposed to mean?

[CoreIssue]

He thinks he is a social messiah or something. Has all the answers.

But some of his supposed answers are total disasters.

[seraphim79]

hmm. I never had thought of that. Has anyone seen this video yet? It is a little long but worth watching I think.

http://www.eyeblast.tv/Public/Video.aspx?rsrcID=2036
I am one who follows elections closely.

Obama is the most dangerous, and to me, anti-Christian candidate out there. His 'Gospel' is a social agenda. Liberation Theology is not about Christ, but a socialist movement.


I totally agree with you. I have to admit that I have not been following the elections very closely, and I had no idea why everyone was "against" Obama until I saw that video. It really scares me to think that he might become president.

[kay-gee]

You could have got behind Hillary. She needed your support. I cant tell what is going to happen now.
all the best...

[Chrystalwuzhere]

It's very telling that Chris Matthews and other secular political analysts are seeing and feeling what we are seeing about Obama.

It's as if he is bewitching the masses. Definitely a charisma there that is more than meets the eye.

[InTheWind]

You could have got behind Hillary. She needed your support. I cant tell what is going to happen now.
all the best...

Hopefully in the end McCain will become prez. There`s something fishy about Obama alright. :(

[kay-gee]

Dont think the Republicans are gonna make this time. The Dems are dragging this thing out on purpose. They are advertising.

all the best...

[InTheWind]

Dont think the Republicans are gonna make this time. The Dems are dragging this thing out on purpose. They are advertising.

all the best...

They`er deceiving everyone, Obama hasn`t said a thing about how he would fix the problems. He is a smooth talker and imo has a evil plan in the background, very scary. :(

[Chrystalwuzhere]

If Obama wins the nomination, and he will, we're looking at our next President. I could be wrong, mind you, but I don't think so.

The nation has republican-burn, and they're wanting to change things up. McCain, imho, isn't a strong enough candidate to defeat Obama.

Buckle up, buckaroos, it's gonna be an interesting ride.

[InTheWind]

I sure hope your wrong Chrystal :( My hope is that there`s enough sane people left to get MaCain in.
All we`ve seen so far is the race between Hitlery and Obama, the media plays things up.

[kay-gee]

I believe you are correct Chrystal. Hillary would have been great. She would have brought a womans sensitivity to the Whitehouse which could have been a good thing all round!. Oh well...Live with Obama for 4 years. Maybe by then the public will be ready for Republican again. (Especially if the next while, here is a full scale economic down turn)

all the best...

[InTheWind]

Tell me why you think Hillery would be great, the Clinton's have a track record of corruption that goes back years. Because of Bills tear down of intelligence and the service we got 911.
Why would anyone vote for someone just because they are a woman?

[CoreIssue]

Hard one to call. The dynamics are amazing in this one!

I know a number of people who are going to vote Barr. They cannot vote for McCain and will not vote for either Dem. Want to send a message to try to wake up the Republicans.

If McCain wins strong, no incentive to change. A strong 3rd party vote is a vote for the future... maybe.

[lighthouse]

yes but if you go 3rd part obama will win
and based on what i have seen and read
he will be this countrys first
dictator
yes it can happen

[lighthouse]

Things you can not say about Obama...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With Obama we started out, we couldn't talk about his big ears 'cause that made him nervous. We've gone from that to this: Not only can we not mention his ears...
We can't talk about his mother.
We can't talk about his father.
We can't talk about his grandmother unless he does, and brings her up as a "typical white person."
We can't talk about his wife,
can't talk about his preacher,
can't talk about his terrorist friends, c
an't talk about his voting record,
can't talk about his religion.
We can't talk about appeasement.
We can't talk about color; we can't talk about lack of color.
We can't talk about race.
We can't talk about bombers and mobsters who are his friends.
We can't talk about schooling.
We can't talk about his name, "Hussein."
We can't talk about his lack of experience.
Can't talk about his income.
Can't talk about his flag pin.
This started out we can't call him a liberal.
It started out we just couldn't talk about his ears.
Now we can't say anything about him.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_051608/content/01125112.guest.html

[lighthouse]

Obama's Anger
By Ed Kaitz



"The anger is real. It is powerful, and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races."
- Barack Obama


Back in the late 1980s I was on a plane flying out of New Orleans and sitting next to me was a rather interesting and, according to Barack Obama, unusual black man. Friendly, gregarious, and wise beyond his years, we immediately hit it off. I had been working on Vietnamese commercial fishing boats for a few years based in southern Louisiana. The boats were owned by the recent wave of Vietnamese refugees who flooded into the familiar tropical environment after the war. Floating in calm seas out in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico, I would hear tearful songs and tales from ex-paratroopers about losing brothers, sisters, parents, children, lovers, and beautiful Vietnam itself to the communists.


In Bayou country I lived on boats and in doublewide trailers, and like the rest of the Vietnamese refugees, I shopped at Wal-Mart and ate a lot of rice. When they arrived in Louisiana the refugees had no money (the money that they had was used to bribe their way out of Vietnam and into refugee camps in Thailand), few friends, and a mostly unfriendly and suspicious local population.

They did however have strong families, a strong work ethic, and the "Audacity of Hope." Within a generation, with little or no knowledge of English, the Vietnamese had achieved dominance in the fishing industry there and their children were already achieving the top SAT scores in the state.

While I had been fishing my new black friend had been working as a prison psychologist in Missouri, and he was pursuing a higher degree in psychology. He was interested in my story, and after about an hour getting to know each other I asked him point blank why these Vietnamese refugees, with no money, friends, or knowledge of the language could be, within a generation, so successful. I also asked him why it was so difficult to convince young black men to abandon the streets and take advantage of the same kinds of opportunities that the Vietnamese had recently embraced.

His answer, only a few words, not only floored me but became sort of a razor that has allowed me ever since to slice through all of the rhetoric regarding race relations that Democrats shovel our way during election season:


"We're owed and they aren't."


In short, he concluded, "they're hungry and we think we're owed. It's crushing us, and as long as we think we're owed we're going nowhere."

A good test case for this theory is Katrina. Obama, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and assorted white apologists continue to express anger and outrage over the federal response to the Katrina disaster. But where were the Vietnamese "leaders" expressing their "anger?" The Vietnamese comprise a substantial part of the New Orleans population, and yet are absent was any report claiming that the Vietnamese were "owed" anything. This is not to say that the federal response was an adequate one, but we need to take this as a sign that maybe the problem has very little to do with racism and a lot to with a mindset.


The mindset that one is "owed" something in life has not only affected black mobility in business but black mobility in education as well. Remember Ward Churchill? About fifteen years ago he was my boss. After leaving the fishing boats, I attended graduate school at the University of Colorado at Boulder. I managed to get a job on campus teaching expository writing to minority students who had been accepted provisionally into the university on an affirmative action program. And although I never met him, Ward Churchill, in addition to teaching in the ethnic studies department, helped to develop and organize the minority writing program.


The job paid most of my bills, but what I witnessed there was absolutely horrifying. The students were encouraged to write essays attacking the white establishment from every conceivable angle and in addition to defend affirmative action and other government programs. Of the hundreds of papers that I read, there was not one original contribution to the problem of black mobility that strayed from the party line.


The irony of it all however is that the "white establishment" managed to get them into the college and pay their entire tuition. Instead of being encouraged to study international affairs, classical or modern languages, philosophy or art, most of these students became ethnic studies or sociology majors because it allowed them to remain in disciplines whose orientation justified their existence at the university. In short, it became a vicious cycle.


There was a student there I'll never forget. He was plucked out of the projects in Denver and given a free ride to the university. One day in my office he told me that his mother had said the following to him: "M.J., they owe you this. White people at that university owe you this." M.J.'s experience at the university was a glorious fulfillment of his mother's angst.


There were black student organizations and other clubs that "facilitated" the minority student's experience on the majority white and "racist" campus, in addition to a plethora of faculty members, both white and black, who encouraged the same animus toward the white establishment. While adding to their own bona fides as part of the trendy Left, these "facilitators" supplied M.J. with everything he needed to quench his and his mother's anger, but nothing in the way of advice about how to succeed in college. No one, in short, had told M.J. that he needed to study. But since he was "owed" everything, why put out any effort on his own?


In a fit of despair after failing most of his classes, M.J. wandered into my office one Friday afternoon in the middle of the semester and asked if I could help him out. I asked M.J. about his plans that evening, and he told me that he usually attended parties on Friday and Saturday nights. I told him that if he agreed to meet me in front of the university library at 6:00pm I would buy him dinner. At 6pm M.J. showed up, and for the next twenty minutes we wandered silently through the stacks, lounges, and study areas of the library. When we arrived back at the entrance I asked M.J. if he noticed anything interesting. As we headed up the hill to a popular burger joint, M.J. turned to me and said:


"They were all Asian. Everyone in there was Asian, and it was Friday night."


Nothing I could do, say, or show him, however, could match the fire power of his support system favoring anger. I was sad to hear of M.J. dropping out of school the following semester.

During my time teaching in the writing program, I watched Asians get transformed via leftist doublespeak from "minorities" to "model minorities" to "they're not minorities" in precise rhythm to their fortunes in business and education. Asians were "minorities" when they were struggling in this country, but they became "model minorities" when they achieved success. Keep in mind "model minority" did not mean what most of us think it means, i.e., something to emulate. "Model minority" meant that Asians had certain cultural advantages, such as a strong family tradition and a culture of scholarship that the black community lacked.

To suggest that intact families and a philosophy of self-reliance could be the ticket to success would have undermined the entire angst establishment. Because of this it was improper to use Asian success as a model. The contortions the left exercised in order to defend this ridiculous thesis helped to pave the way for the elimination of Asians altogether from the status of "minority."


This whole process took only a few years.


Eric Hoffer said:

"...you do not win the weak by sharing your wealth with them; it will but infect them with greed and resentment. You can win the weak only by sharing your pride, hope or hatred with them."


We now know that Barack Obama really has no interest in the "audacity of hope." With his race speech, Obama became a peddler of angst, resentment and despair. Too bad he doesn't direct that angst at the liberal establishment that has sold black people a bill of goods since the 1960s. What Obama seems angry about is America itself and what it stands for; the same America that has provided fabulous opportunities for what my black friend called "hungry" minorities. Strong families, self-reliance, and a spirit of entrepreneurship should be held up as ideals for all races to emulate.


In the end, we should be very suspicious about Obama's anger and the recent frothings of his close friend Reverend Wright. Says Eric Hoffer:

The fact seems to be that we are least open to precise knowledge concerning the things we are most vehement about. Vehemence is the expression of a blind effort to support and uphold something that can never stand on its own.


http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/obamas_anger.html

[lighthouse]

This guy wants to be our President and control our government. Pay close attention to the last comment!! Below are a few lines from Obama's books ' his words:

From Dreams of My Father: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'

From Dr eams of My Father: 'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'

From Dreams of My Father: ; 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa, that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, Dubois and Mandela.'

From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'

[lighthouse]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...Zk5xnYygW1W67w

Quote:
"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK," Obama said.

I do not look for permission from other countries to run my AC or drive my truck.
America is sovereign, Mr Obama. We don't need permission from you or anyone for whatever we choose to do.
I am free. I am not subject to elites in Belgium. Freedom means I can run my AC at 72 if I want.

[lighthouse]

one more thing i am a student of history
and we humans never learn
never
i cry as i write this

my landlady is german
now an american
been here for over 50 years now
her first husband was a nazi

we discussed obama
she said she is very afraid of him
she said
it is hitler come back to life

her mind is sharp as a tack and she loves the Lord

take heed folks
obama is the sign yes the sign
of the END of our great nation
be careful with what you decide this year

[lighthouse]

Broaching That Other Off-Limits Obama Topic
By Marc Sheppard
When it comes to Barack Obama, only one subject infuriates the swooning mainstream media more than his father's race -- and that's his father and stepfather's religion. Why, the very mention of Barack's early Islamic training -- or even his Muslim middle name -- has become more sacrosanct a PC no-no than disclosing the race of a non-white crime suspect.


You may recall the furor in January over a pre-Nevada primary "robocall" [mp3] that dropped the full name of Barack Hussein Obama four times. Or the outcries the following month when Cincinnati radio personality Bill Cunningham spoke those same three words repeatedly at a local McCain town-hall meeting. And who can possibly forget the widespread media rush to assure the public of their hero's baptism when a photo of him clad in traditional Muslim garb surfaced on the web that same month?


Not surprisingly then, shortly following the media and blogosphere-pressured condemnations by both Hillary and McCain, mention of Obama's middle name or Muslim heritage became de facto taboo amongst politically correct company. Although not -- it would seem -- for everybody.


A Nuanced Admission from a Pandering Apostate?


In a weekend interview published Monday, the candidate himself mentioned both unmentionables in attempting to mitigate the political damage -- particularly with Jewish voters -- done by Hamas leader Ahmed Yousef's endorsing words "We like Mr. Obama and we hope that he will win the election." The defensive senator told the Atlantic: [emphasis added]


"It's conceivable that there are those in the Arab world who say to themselves, ‘This is a guy who spent some time in the Muslim world, has a middle name of Hussein, and appears more worldly and has called for talks with people, and so he's not going to be engaging in the same sort of cowboy diplomacy as George Bush,' and that's something they're hopeful about. I think that's a perfectly legitimate perception as long as they're not confused about my unyielding support for Israel's security."


So then, it would appear okay to discuss his middle name and childhood exposure to Islam when it helps explain his high regard among terrorists. And that they're now positive points -- particularly when they can be drawn upon to level a cheap shot at the president while pandering to Jewish voters.


Yet, that very same day, an op-ed in the NY Times, of all places, also chose to break taboo by suggesting that, as an apostate of Islam, a President Obama might invite assassination at the hands of jihadists. In stark contrast to the notion that Obama's Indonesian childhood might somehow have an affirmative effect on Palestinians and other Muslims around the world, Edward N. Luttwak's column reminds us of the decidedly negative impact his presidency could have. President Apostate, the writer suggests, would actually compromise Muslim nations' ability to cooperate in our war on terror, as well as "American efforts to export democracy and human rights abroad."


In truth, the apostate angle was hardly a new one. In March of 2006 -- almost a full year before he officially announced his candidacy -- Canadian Free Press founding Editor Judi McLeod asked whether there was "a Muslim apostate headed for the White House?" By then it was well known that Obama's biological father had been Muslim, which, by Islamic law, passes that distinction on to the son. But, as McLeod pointed out -- at the time:


"little [was] known about who Obama's step father was. But some say that he was an Indonesian national and a Muslim. Still, Obama must have attended school in Indonesia. Is it possible that as a young Muslim boy he went to a Saudi madrassa? Yes, that's a possibility."


Indeed, it would be almost a year later, in February of ‘07, that rumors of Obama's early Muslim schooling were confirmed when an AP piece revealed that:


"he attended a Muslim school in Indonesia from age 6 to 10. Obama, who was born in Hawaii, lived in Indonesia with his mother and stepfather from 1967 to 1971 and subsequently returned to Hawaii to live with his maternal grandparents."


The same article quoted Obama's attempt to assuage voters' anxieties over his now exposed early Koran lessons by professing both his middle name and his conversion to Christianity:


"If your name is Barack Hussein Obama, you can expect it, some of that. I think the majority of voters know that I'm a member of the United Church of Christ, and that I take my faith seriously."


In essence then, it was the Associated Press that tacitly outed Obama as a Muslim apostate over a year ago. And in doing so, arguably opened the floodgates.


The Audacity of Denied Apostasy


The following month, Paul Watson of the Los Angeles Times reported that Obama communications director Robert Gibbs' January statement that "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim" and "was not raised a Muslim" had been revised. The reworked phrasing stated instead that "Obama has never been a practicing Muslim" (my emphasis). And while an interesting distinction, what followed in Watson's report told another story still.


This article delved deeper into young Obama's time in Indonesia, "the world's most populous Islamic-majority country," with Lolo Soetoro, his Muslim step-father. Childhood friends were quoted recalling Obama attending "Friday prayers at the local mosque." More disturbingly:


"His former Roman Catholic and Muslim teachers, along with two people who were identified by Obama's grade-school teacher as childhood friends, say Obama was registered by his family as a Muslim at both of the schools he attended. That registration meant that during the third and fourth grades, Obama learned about Islam for two hours each week in religion class."


Leaving no doubt that, at least as a child and Gibbs' assurances notwithstanding, Obama had indeed been a practicing Muslim. And, while earlier denial has now given way to dismissal of consequence, the point remains a critical one. As Daniel Pipes wrote in January:


"All this matters, for if Obama once was a Muslim, he is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion who must be executed. Were he elected president of the United States, this status, clearly, would have large potential implications for his relationship with the Muslim world."


It would, indeed. As pointed out Monday by Luttwak, while it's unlikely that even the most radically adherent states would allow prosecution of a US president, Shari'a also "prohibits punishment for any Muslim who kills any apostate, and effectively prohibits interference with such a killing." This, itself:


"would complicate the security planning of state visits by President Obama to Muslim countries, because the very act of protecting him would be sinful for Islamic security guards."


Interestingly enough, questions of whether the Illinois senator might actually be eligible for a Shari'a decreed death sentence were raised over a year ago by Jihad Watcher extraordinaire Robert Spencer:


"Probably not -- particularly if he left Islam while still a child. This is a crucial point, for according to Islamic law an apostate male is not to be put to death if he has not reached puberty (cf. ‘Umdat al-Salik o8.2; Hidayah vol. II p. 246). Some, however, hold that he should be imprisoned until he is of age and then "invited" to accept Islam, but officially the death penalty for youthful apostates is ruled out."


Be that as it may, such technicalities - if applicable -- may or may not influence mainstream Muslim opinion and are certainly unlikely to dissuade jihadists.


We are, After all, at War With Islamic Extremists


All things considered, there are certainly enough "implications" to a wartime president, in his own words, having spent "some time in the Muslim world" to remove the subject from the hands-off list. In fact, now that he himself has opened the door to extol the virtues of his Koranic studies, and his acolytes at the Times have widened that entry in expressing concerns for his safety, the topic must be considered fair-game.


And that means warts and all - no sacred cows.


In McLeod's 2006 piece, she raised an interesting, albeit provocative, point:


"What if Obama is engaged in pious fraud? This is a Muslim practice of pretending not to be Muslim to further the cause of Islam or to ‘defend the faith.' He becomes President and then says, ‘Gee...I think I want to be Muslim again' after he finds the ‘football' in his hands that carries the launch codes for the USA nuke forces."


Of course, this admittedly extreme scenario was immediately torpedoed from every angle, despite Obama having played intentionally coy with his Islamic heritage. Indeed, the left is quick to point out that Barack is not a Muslim. Yet they are loath to admit that he once was. And their reasoning for declaring unfair any questions about the potential lingering biases of a man aspiring to be commander-in-chief is equally fraudulent.


Having placed his heritage and middle name on the table as advantages in dealing with the Muslim world, the question of the downsides of his possible apostasy in the eyes of our Saudi allies, the Iranians, the Pakistanis and other Muslims needs addressing.


Accordingly -- while it's unclear at exactly what point in life Obama forsook the tenets of Islam, are questions pressing the presumptive nominee's positions on such topics as Shari'a in America or Palestinian right of return any less justifiable?


The stakes just don't allow such sophistry.


http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/05/broaching_that_other_offlimits.html

[lighthouse]

Broaching That Other Off-Limits Obama Topic
By Marc Sheppard
When it comes to Barack Obama, only one subject infuriates the swooning mainstream media more than his father's race -- and that's his father and stepfather's religion. Why, the very mention of Barack's early Islamic training -- or even his Muslim middle name -- has become more sacrosanct a PC no-no than disclosing the race of a non-white crime suspect.


You may recall the furor in January over a pre-Nevada primary "robocall" [mp3] that dropped the full name of Barack Hussein Obama four times. Or the outcries the following month when Cincinnati radio personality Bill Cunningham spoke those same three words repeatedly at a local McCain town-hall meeting. And who can possibly forget the widespread media rush to assure the public of their hero's baptism when a photo of him clad in traditional Muslim garb surfaced on the web that same month?


Not surprisingly then, shortly following the media and blogosphere-pressured condemnations by both Hillary and McCain, mention of Obama's middle name or Muslim heritage became de facto taboo amongst politically correct company. Although not -- it would seem -- for everybody.


A Nuanced Admission from a Pandering Apostate?


In a weekend interview published Monday, the candidate himself mentioned both unmentionables in attempting to mitigate the political damage -- particularly with Jewish voters -- done by Hamas leader Ahmed Yousef's endorsing words "We like Mr. Obama and we hope that he will win the election." The defensive senator told the Atlantic: [emphasis added]


"It's conceivable that there are those in the Arab world who say to themselves, ‘This is a guy who spent some time in the Muslim world, has a middle name of Hussein, and appears more worldly and has called for talks with people, and so he's not going to be engaging in the same sort of cowboy diplomacy as George Bush,' and that's something they're hopeful about. I think that's a perfectly legitimate perception as long as they're not confused about my unyielding support for Israel's security."


So then, it would appear okay to discuss his middle name and childhood exposure to Islam when it helps explain his high regard among terrorists. And that they're now positive points -- particularly when they can be drawn upon to level a cheap shot at the president while pandering to Jewish voters.


Yet, that very same day, an op-ed in the NY Times, of all places, also chose to break taboo by suggesting that, as an apostate of Islam, a President Obama might invite assassination at the hands of jihadists. In stark contrast to the notion that Obama's Indonesian childhood might somehow have an affirmative effect on Palestinians and other Muslims around the world, Edward N. Luttwak's column reminds us of the decidedly negative impact his presidency could have. President Apostate, the writer suggests, would actually compromise Muslim nations' ability to cooperate in our war on terror, as well as "American efforts to export democracy and human rights abroad."


In truth, the apostate angle was hardly a new one. In March of 2006 -- almost a full year before he officially announced his candidacy -- Canadian Free Press founding Editor Judi McLeod asked whether there was "a Muslim apostate headed for the White House?" By then it was well known that Obama's biological father had been Muslim, which, by Islamic law, passes that distinction on to the son. But, as McLeod pointed out -- at the time:


"little [was] known about who Obama's step father was. But some say that he was an Indonesian national and a Muslim. Still, Obama must have attended school in Indonesia. Is it possible that as a young Muslim boy he went to a Saudi madrassa? Yes, that's a possibility."


Indeed, it would be almost a year later, in February of ‘07, that rumors of Obama's early Muslim schooling were confirmed when an AP piece revealed that:


"he attended a Muslim school in Indonesia from age 6 to 10. Obama, who was born in Hawaii, lived in Indonesia with his mother and stepfather from 1967 to 1971 and subsequently returned to Hawaii to live with his maternal grandparents."


The same article quoted Obama's attempt to assuage voters' anxieties over his now exposed early Koran lessons by professing both his middle name and his conversion to Christianity:


"If your name is Barack Hussein Obama, you can expect it, some of that. I think the majority of voters know that I'm a member of the United Church of Christ, and that I take my faith seriously."


In essence then, it was the Associated Press that tacitly outed Obama as a Muslim apostate over a year ago. And in doing so, arguably opened the floodgates.


The Audacity of Denied Apostasy


The following month, Paul Watson of the Los Angeles Times reported that Obama communications director Robert Gibbs' January statement that "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim" and "was not raised a Muslim" had been revised. The reworked phrasing stated instead that "Obama has never been a practicing Muslim" (my emphasis). And while an interesting distinction, what followed in Watson's report told another story still.


This article delved deeper into young Obama's time in Indonesia, "the world's most populous Islamic-majority country," with Lolo Soetoro, his Muslim step-father. Childhood friends were quoted recalling Obama attending "Friday prayers at the local mosque." More disturbingly:


"His former Roman Catholic and Muslim teachers, along with two people who were identified by Obama's grade-school teacher as childhood friends, say Obama was registered by his family as a Muslim at both of the schools he attended. That registration meant that during the third and fourth grades, Obama learned about Islam for two hours each week in religion class."


Leaving no doubt that, at least as a child and Gibbs' assurances notwithstanding, Obama had indeed been a practicing Muslim. And, while earlier denial has now given way to dismissal of consequence, the point remains a critical one. As Daniel Pipes wrote in January:


"All this matters, for if Obama once was a Muslim, he is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion who must be executed. Were he elected president of the United States, this status, clearly, would have large potential implications for his relationship with the Muslim world."


It would, indeed. As pointed out Monday by Luttwak, while it's unlikely that even the most radically adherent states would allow prosecution of a US president, Shari'a also "prohibits punishment for any Muslim who kills any apostate, and effectively prohibits interference with such a killing." This, itself:


"would complicate the security planning of state visits by President Obama to Muslim countries, because the very act of protecting him would be sinful for Islamic security guards."


Interestingly enough, questions of whether the Illinois senator might actually be eligible for a Shari'a decreed death sentence were raised over a year ago by Jihad Watcher extraordinaire Robert Spencer:


"Probably not -- particularly if he left Islam while still a child. This is a crucial point, for according to Islamic law an apostate male is not to be put to death if he has not reached puberty (cf. ‘Umdat al-Salik o8.2; Hidayah vol. II p. 246). Some, however, hold that he should be imprisoned until he is of age and then "invited" to accept Islam, but officially the death penalty for youthful apostates is ruled out."


Be that as it may, such technicalities - if applicable -- may or may not influence mainstream Muslim opinion and are certainly unlikely to dissuade jihadists.


We are, After all, at War With Islamic Extremists


All things considered, there are certainly enough "implications" to a wartime president, in his own words, having spent "some time in the Muslim world" to remove the subject from the hands-off list. In fact, now that he himself has opened the door to extol the virtues of his Koranic studies, and his acolytes at the Times have widened that entry in expressing concerns for his safety, the topic must be considered fair-game.


And that means warts and all - no sacred cows.


In McLeod's 2006 piece, she raised an interesting, albeit provocative, point:


"What if Obama is engaged in pious fraud? This is a Muslim practice of pretending not to be Muslim to further the cause of Islam or to ‘defend the faith.' He becomes President and then says, ‘Gee...I think I want to be Muslim again' after he finds the ‘football' in his hands that carries the launch codes for the USA nuke forces."


Of course, this admittedly extreme scenario was immediately torpedoed from every angle, despite Obama having played intentionally coy with his Islamic heritage. Indeed, the left is quick to point out that Barack is not a Muslim. Yet they are loath to admit that he once was. And their reasoning for declaring unfair any questions about the potential lingering biases of a man aspiring to be commander-in-chief is equally fraudulent.


Having placed his heritage and middle name on the table as advantages in dealing with the Muslim world, the question of the downsides of his possible apostasy in the eyes of our Saudi allies, the Iranians, the Pakistanis and other Muslims needs addressing.


Accordingly -- while it's unclear at exactly what point in life Obama forsook the tenets of Islam, are questions pressing the presumptive nominee's positions on such topics as Shari'a in America or Palestinian right of return any less justifiable?


The stakes just don't allow such sophistry.


http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/05/broaching_that_other_offlimits.html

[CoreIssue]

yes but if you go 3rd part obama will win
and based on what i have seen and read
he will be this countrys first
dictator
yes it can happen
I don't know that will happen, or won't. McCain is absolutely no better. We have now been drug down by Bush-Clinton-Bush. Our jobs are gone overseas, we are being bought up by foreigners, they keep talking about a recovery that is never coming because the good paying jobs are gone.

Example, Georgia is getting a Kia manufacturing plant that will hire many. BUT, it ISN'T a manufacturing plant, it is an assembly plant. Much is robots. The good paying engine and other parts manufacturing is done in Korea.

Same with a Sany and other plants. China.

Even the profit is leaving the country.

Then some wonder why auto and other sales are down. Because we don't have the consumer base anymore. It isn't coming back and the consumption will not come back.

The Middle Class is vanishing. There is a growth in the millionaire class by those who make money via stock, commodities and overseas investment.

Our county is dying and McCain's promises do nothing but promote the decline.

He is not an answer. We don't have an answer in any of them.

And no, Obama will not be a dictator. He will hurt us, as McCain will hurt us, but in different ways. Many Dems in Congress will not back him because they know better.

We do not win here at all. But we are in the End Times and know that is coming. The US voters are more like Obama than you or I.

We are the minority now.

[seraphim79]

You are right, because these people care more about making a dollar than taking care of their country. They are supporting the economies of foreign countries by sending all of the jobs there but in the process our own economy is suffering. I just have to say watch out because when people start to suffer you just can not predict how they will react.

[InTheWind]

You are right, because these people care more about making a dollar than taking care of their country. They are supporting the economies of foreign countries by sending all of the jobs there but in the process our own economy is suffering. I just have to say watch out because when people start to suffer you just can not predict how they will react.

I tend to agree, we`re already seeing an increase in road rage and violence. Just wait till things really get bad, i`m glad we live in the country and have gotten somewhat prepared.

[Jessie]

You are right, because these people care more about making a dollar than taking care of their country. They are supporting the economies of foreign countries by sending all of the jobs there but in the process our own economy is suffering. I just have to say watch out because when people start to suffer you just can not predict how they will react.


thats it right there, care more for a dollar than taking care of their country.

I think you are right, about hte suffering, who knows how they will react?

I think anarcy and chaos is coming...

[kay-gee]

Remember the words of the great Sir Winston Churchill...

"We have nothing to fear but fear itsef"

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Remember the words of the great Sir Winston Churchill...

"We have nothing to fear but fear itsef"

all the best...
But don't hide your head in the sand like Neville Chamberlain did. :p

[kay-gee]

He wont be the first or the last lousy president. Put up with him for 4 years, and then turf him. Perhaps by then, more presidential material people will have come forward. How much damage can he do in the time allotted? I mean really!

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

He wont be the first or the last lousy president. Put up with him for 4 years, and then turf him. Perhaps by then, more presidential material people will have come forward. How much damage can he do in the time allotted? I mean really!

all the best...
KG, honestly, are you that clueless or do you just enjoy stirring the pot?

[kay-gee]

Just an experienced political observer!

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Just an experienced political observer!

all the best...
Comments made do not justify that statement! ;)

[Jessie]

He wont be the first or the last lousy president. Put up with him for 4 years, and then turf him. Perhaps by then, more presidential material people will have come forward. How much damage can he do in the time allotted? I mean really!

all the best...


certainly you dont mean that?

4 yrs can destroy us and there are NO hopes of "more presidential" material people out there.

aint gonna happen.

[lighthouse]

I fear the loss of free speech. I am concerned talk radio and independent news sources will be regulated to the point that they are effectively silenced. I fear more cases like that of Crystal Dixon, Associate Vice President for Human Resources at Toledo University, who was recently fired for writing a column as a private citizen, making the case as an African American that homosexuality cannot be equated to race in a civil rights debate. Barack Obama has been heralded by award-winning gay journalist, Andrew Sullivan, because he embraces expanded homosexual rights through ENDA and the punishment of those who would be “intolerant” to this lifestyle through hate crimes legislation. I fear those who oppose the homosexual moral and political agenda will be further punished. I fear his embrace of homosexual marriage and the consequences to children and society.

I fear the influence of radicals like William Ayres, formerly of the Weather Underground. I fear that, in addition to his desire to violently overthrow the United States Government, his endorsement of “Queering Elementary Education” will become more prevalent in public schools. I fear children will become further prey to the sex education agenda that exposes our kids too early and too often to materials at odds with the convictions of a great majority of Americans.

I fear racial vengeance. I don’t believe Barack Obama has sat at the feet of the hate-filled black racial bigot Jeremiah Wright without having sympathy for his poisonous diatribes. He may agree that white America deserves some sort of payback.

I fear economic collapse from a talented orator but inexperienced politician who does not love the free market, but socialism, who seeks justice and “fairness” that, translated, means taking from some and giving it to those he perceives deserve it more. I am concerned that the poor will be poorer and that “equality” will mean all will be poorer—regardless of effort or merit.

I fear the loss of our national identity thru the flood of more illegal immigration already championed by Obama, draining resources and creating further burden on the educational and healthcare systems.

I fear the distortion of the true meaning of following Christ. I fear soaring rhetoric that elevates man and promises a “kingdom right here on earth,” and, rather than acknowledging our depravity, seeks to accommodate it.

What is it I am afraid of if Barack Obama becomes President All of this and more. Maybe the chickens really will soon come home to roost. But if they do under a President Obama, we won’t be able to say that we haven’t invited it upon ourselves.

http://www.culturecampaign.com/

[lighthouse]

“What are you so afraid of?” a caller to my Chicago radio show asked. “Green” is a veteran with two sons serving in Iraq. He is adamantly against the war and adamantly for Barack Obama. Though we don’t agree on much, Green is the consummate gentlemen and his question is a good one. So I must respond.

If Barack Obama is elected President of the United States, I fear our enemies will smell the blood of weakness and rise in retaliation here and abroad. While Obama makes sweeping promises to end the war in Iraq, he never projects the consequences. Radical Islam is waging a holy war against us—and they have no intent on ending their war against the West. Withdrawal will be perceived as surrender and the election of a president sympathetic to their cause will embolden them like nothing else. Iraq will recede into bloody, sectarian retaliatory violence. Iran will take advantage and wield new power in the region. Our military families will have the sacrifice of their loved ones rendered meaninglessness. And our enemies will come here.

Israel will find itself alone. Europe and the British Isles, already too overrun with Islamists, will provide little defense. A future President Obama, championed by members of Hamas in Gaza, endorsed by one of their leaders—a dear friend to PLO sympathizer and Yasser Arafat apologist—Rashid Kalidi, will, I fear, not lift a finger to defend them. It is, after all, this same future president who has sat for 20 years (until recently without objection), listening to Dr. Jeremiah Wright praise Hamas and the famous Israel despiser, Louis Farrakhan.

I fear Iran will continue to develop nuclear weapons and breathlessly rush to the annihilation of Israel which will bring war to the Middle East. Iran will gladly make these weapons available to terrorist groups who will use them in the same way they currently show their contempt for life in smaller ways with suicide bombs. President Barack Obama will be powerless to stop this. He is a man full of words, but lacking in resolve … except on the following:

• He boasts a 100 percent voting record in opposing pre-born human life. The enthusiastic endorsement of NARAL’s Pro-Choice America gives a glimpse at his certainty. Barack Obama has given us little reason to believe that he has opposed abortion, at any time, for any reason.

• He was appalled that the Supreme Court in Carhardt vs. Gonzales upheld a ban on partial birth abortion (that last trimester method that pulls a baby from the womb, feet first, inserts scissors in the head, sucks out the brains and crushes the skull before removing its murdered body). He was outraged that a woman’s “right to choose” had been impeded.

• He is against parental consent and notification laws and favors what can only be called infanticide—continually opposing legislation that would require medical treatment and food for children born alive with disabilities after a failed abortion. I fear more brutality on the unborn and more erosion of the value of human life.

I fear universal healthcare, a system that will run like Cook County Hospital in Chicago where patients wait for hours, get lousy care and—if and when they are seen—they have little recourse for the way they are treated. Government healthcare puts you at the mercy of government: no alternative if medicines or procedures are denied and no recourse if doctors botch a surgery. I fear “equality” in a system like that—we will all get equally marginal care. Managed care and HMOs will look like heaven compared to this.



http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/SandyRios/2008/05/22/why_im_afraid_of_a_president_barack_obama

[lighthouse]

OnTheIssues.org has excerpts of the book...

My stepfather Lolo said, "Guilt is a luxury only foreigners can afford. Like saying whatever pops into your head." Mother didn't know what it was like to lose everything, to wake up and feel her belly eating itself. She didn't know how crowded and treacherous the path to security could be. He was right, of course. She was a foreigner, middle-class and white and protected by her heredity whether she wanted protection or not. She could always leave if things got too messy. That possibility negated anything she might say to Lolo; it was the unreachable barrier between them.

Source: Dreams from My Father, by Barack Obama, p. 42 Aug 1, 1996


If Malcolm X's discovery toward the end of his life, that some whites might live beside him as brothers in Islam, seemed to offer some hope of eventual reconciliation, that hope appeared in a distant future, in a far-off land. In the meantime, I looked to see where the people would come from who were willing to work toward this future and populate this new world.

Source: Dreams from My Father, by Barack Obama, p. 80 Aug 1, 1996

[lighthouse]

Friday, May 23, 2008 8:19 AM
By: Newsmax Staff


Presidential candidate Barack Obama used a Florida fundraiser to attack conservative media personalities Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh for their militant stand on immigration policy.

Appearing Thursday at the Westin Diplomat near Fort Lauderdale, Obama lashed out at critics of illegal immigrants and migrant workers.

During his speech, Obama said, "A certain segment has basically been feeding a kind of xenophobia. There’s a reason why hate crimes against Hispanic people doubled last year.”

Who is behind the rise in hate crimes?

Obama left no doubt who he believes to be the culprits. “If you have people like Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh ginning things up, it’s not surprising that would happen,” he told the crowd.

According to press reports, Obama collected more than $500,000 from some 800 donors at the event.

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/Obama_Limbaugh_Dobbs/2008/05/23/98418.html?s=al&promo_code=62F1-1

[CoreIssue]

Excellent points, lighthouse.

This is a huge move toward an EU style government goal. It is a disaster for Christians.

Many who have not lived overseas do not understand the subtle ways your freedoms are lost or were never there compared to the US.

[InTheWind]

I got this in a email.



It's an amazing time to be alive in America . We're in a year of firsts in this presidential election: the first viable woman candidate; the first viable African-American candidate; and, a candidate who is the first front-running freedom fighter over 70. The next president of America will be a first.


We won't truly be in an election of firsts, however, until we judge every candidate by where they stand. We won't arrive where we should be until we no longer talk about skin color or gender. Now that Barack Obama steps to the front of the Democratic field, we need to stop talking about his race, and start talking about his policies and his politics.


The reality is this: Though the Democrats will not have a nominee until August, unless Hillary Clinton drops out, Mr. Obama is now the frontrunner, and its time America takes a closer and deeper look at him. Some pundits are calling him the next John F. Kennedy. He's not. He's the next George McGovern. And it's time people learned the facts.


Because the truth is that Mr. Obama is the single most liberal senator in the entire U.S. Senate. He is more liberal than Ted Kennedy, Bernie Sanders, or Mrs. Clinton. Never in my life have I seen a presidential frontrunner whose rhetoric is so far removed from his record. Walter Mondale promised to raise our taxes, and he lost. George McGovern promised military weakness, and he lost. Michael Dukakis promised a liberal domestic agenda, and he lost.
Yet Mr. Obama is promising all those things, and he's not behind in the polls. Why? Because the press has dealt with him as if he were in a beauty pageant.. Mr. Obama talks about getting past party, getting past red and blue, to lead the United States of America . But let's look at the more defined strokes of who he is underneath this superficial 'beauty.'


Start with national security, sin ce the president's most important duties are as commander-in-chief. Over the summer, Mr. Obama talked about invading Pakistan, a nation armed with nuclear weapons; meeting without preconditions with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who vows to destroy Israel and create another Holocaust; and Kim Jong II, who is murdering and starving his people, but emphasized that the nuclear option was off the table against terrorists - something no president has ever taken off the table since we created nuclear weapons in the 1940s. Even Democrats who have worked in national security condemned all of those remarks. Mr. Obama is a foreign-policy novice who would put our national security at risk.


Next, consider economic policy. For all its faults, our health care system is the strongest in the world. And free trade agreements, created by Bill Clinton as well as President Bush, have made more goods more affordable so that even people of modest means can live a life that no one imagined a generation ago. Yet Mr. Obama promises to raise taxes on 'the rich.' How to fix Social Security? Raise taxes. How to fix Medicare? Raise taxes. Prescription drugs? Raise taxes. Free college? Raise taxes. Socialize medicine? Raise taxes. His solution to everything is to have government take it over. Big Brother on steroids, funded by your paycheck.


Finally, look at the social issues. Mr. Obama had the audacity to open a stadium rally by saying, 'All praise and glory to God!' but says that Christian leaders speaking for life and marriage have 'hijacked' - hijacked - Christianity. He is pro-partial birth abortion, and promises to appoint Supreme Court justices who will rule any restriction on it unconstitutional. He espouses the abortion views of Margaret Sanger, one of the early advocates of racial cleansing. His spirit ual leaders endorse homosexual marriage, and he is moving in that direction. In Illinois , he refused to vote against a statewide ban - ban - on all handguns in the state. These are radical left, Hollywood , and San Francis co values, not Middle America values.


The real Mr. Obama is an easy target for the general election. Mrs. Clinton is a far tougher opponent. But Mr. Obama could win if people don't start looking behind his veneer and flowery speeches. His vision of 'bringing America together' means saying that those who disagree with his agenda for America are hijackers or warmongers. Uniting the country means adopting his liberal agenda and abandoning any conflicting beliefs.


But right now everyone is talking about how eloquent of a speaker he is and - yes - they're talking about his race. Tho se should never be the factors on which we base our choice for president. Mr. Obama's radical agenda sets him far outside the American mainstream, to the left of Mrs. Clinton.


It's time to talk about the real Barack Obama. In an election of firsts, let's first make sure we elect the person who is qualified to be our president in a nuclear age during a global civilizational war.

Subject: Kind of scary, wouldn't you think Remember--'God is good, and is in time, on time,every time.'


According to The Book of Revelations the anti-christ is:


The anti-christ will be a man, in his 40s, of MUSLIM descent, who will deceive the nations with persuasive language, and have a MASSIVE Christ-like appeal....t he prophecy says that people will flock to him and he will promise false hope and world peace, and when he is in power, will destroy everything. Is this anti-christ,.......... OBAMA??


I STRONGLY URGE each one of you to repost with this email as many times as you can! Each opportunity that you have to send it to a friend or media outlet...do it! If you think I am crazy,. I'm sorry but I refuse to take a chance on the 'unknown' candidate.

[CoreIssue]

While I agree with much said this is totally false.
The anti-christ will be a man, in his 40s, of MUSLIM descent...

[InTheWind]

Like i said it was emailed to me, even so as i said before what a person to be in office when the AC is in power.

[CoreIssue]

Like i said it was emailed to me, even so as i said before what a person to be in office when the AC is in power.
Understand and fully agree I can see Obama on board with the AC.

[InTheWind]

This says a lot about Obama.

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?RsrcID=2036

[lighthouse]

right on itw

[lighthouse]

this is also why this time i will not vote third party
instead i wil vote for the one person who could beat him
a third party vote will ensure an obama win

and usher in our first dictator and the fall of our nation

so choose wisely

and i am aware if this is the end of this age
obama will win
because it is time

[lighthouse]

this is also why this time i will not vote third party
instead i wil vote for the one person who could beat him
a third party vote will ensure an obama win

and usher in our first dictator and the fall of our nation

so choose wisely

and i am aware if this is the end of this age
obama will win
because it is time

[CoreIssue]

Lighthouse, I can respect your opinion but it is also a reality the Republican Party candidates, all levels of government, are becoming more liberal all the time.

To me voting for McCain is like voting for s 60s Democrat. They gave us the Great Society and set us on a course still reeking havoc today.

I think this is the perfect time to vote 3rd Party because I believe Barr can pull a % that will put the other Parties on notice while McCain will still win because there are a lot of Dems who will not vote for him. Plus, if the Independents are willing to vote for him, he is going to win anyway, 3rd Party or not.

We did your point with Bush and he turned out worse than expected. McCain will do that as well.

Independents are now the largest voting block out there. Libertarians are growing in number. Time to face the reality the Major Parities are not Major any longer.

[lighthouse]

then you will elect obama

[kay-gee]

You are correct Lighhouse. I wish I could impress upon these people, the danger of vote splitting. To take away votes, that otherwise would have gone to the Republicans, You are actually handing the presidency to Obama on a silver platter. These so-called third parties are still too far out there on the fringes, to be considered serious contenders in a race such as this.

all the best...

[InTheWind]

I have to agree also, to vote third party will take votes away from the others, it will only give you a clear conscience in this case.

[CoreIssue]

And you will have a good conscience voting for McCain? Really?

His policies on NAFTA, GATT, so-called Free Trade, illegals, water boarding, compromising with liberals and such are good? Really? He works closely with the likes of Ted Kennedy in Congress.

I do not think Obama will get elected. Going by what the Democratic Primaries reflect is a big mistake.

If the Dems gain a bunch of seats in Congress they are going to force what they want, anyway. If they do not, and not all back Obama's thinking to start with, he won't be able to get what he wants enacted.

If the majority of voters back Obama type thinking we are already done for as a country, without a vote being taken.

Why are you not seeing that? The fact that we have these three as our final choices speaks volumes.

McCain wants to keep the policies that allow the flood of illegals to take away and downgrade jobs here and to ship the rest overseas. The economy is NOT coming back because of this thinking. There will be NO recovery for any but a handful. The rest are spiraling down and it won't end.

A nation that builds nothing is doomed. And we assemble, we don't build. No cars or electronics are build here any more, except for Bose. All the skilled and higher paying parts manufacturing is done overseas, thus when assembled here by foreign owned companies the profits go back overseas.

McCain says he will not change any of that.

[kay-gee]

McCain CAN'T change that. That is economies of scale. At least (if he said that) he is just being honest!

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

McCain CAN'T change that. That is economies of scale. At least (if he said that) he is just being honest!

all the best...
Wrong! The government can remove the incentives and protections that enabled companies to ship their facilities overseas and more.

Just as if Canada removed its subsidies from many exports it would almost instantly loose large market shares in other countries. But then again, Canada has gotten itself into the same quandary we have and is loosing thousands of jobs to China.

In example, Husky International was just bought out. It is closing all but some marketing facilities in the US and moving its manufacturing out of Canada to China.

[InTheWind]

Do ya really think Bar can win, if not then arn`t ya just taking votes away from MaCain. Unless ya would rather see Hitlery or Obama get in. :scratch:

[CoreIssue]

Do ya really think Bar can win, if not then arn`t ya just taking votes away from MaCain. Unless ya would rather see Hitlery or Obama get in. :scratch:
Nope. He cannot win. Not talking about winning, but delivering a message the Republican Party has gone too liberal, so change or loose. We loose no matter which of the people get elected, McCain included.

We do not have any real choice in this election.

The ranks of the Independents are growing constantly. Really jumped this time. So the two 'majors' cannot be allowed to keep controlling who gets nominated because they are not the majority parties any longer. But they control the political money.

The best candidates I know are former Republicans who went Independent because the Republicans have become so messageless.

If Barr could pull 20% that would totally shock the political world and force them to pay attention. Especially adding in the loss of party membership.

My county is extremely conservative. But I bet it is 75% independents now.

But even with that I do not think Obama can win. The Independents are going to go in droves for McCain or Barr. Even a lot of Democrats will cross over and vote for McCain.

But we cannot stay on the political course we are on in this country. Either the Republican Party becomes far more conservative or it will die, just as other major parties have died in the past when they became irrelevant.

You should find this (http://www.mury.k12.ut.us/MHS/apus/handouts/politicalparties.htm) an interesting read.

[InTheWind]

Heck i don`t understand all that jerbish, all i know is i can`t vote for Hitlery or Obama so it will either be Bar or MaCain. I also know if i voted Bar and one of the two commies win i`d never forgive myself.

[CoreIssue]

Heck i don`t understand all that jerbish, all i know is i can`t vote for Hitlery or Obama so it will either be Bar or MaCain. I also know if i voted Bar and one of the two commies win i`d never forgive myself.
I understand. But please understand you are NOT going to be happy with McCain.

More of Bush on Iraq, illegals, international trade and all that garbage.

At least with Barr you are telling the Republicans to change or disappear.

[CoreIssue]

I forgot, McCain is fully into Global Warming and supported the old Kyoto Treaty.

And he backs ethanol plus other Gore issues.

[kay-gee]

An interesting read on the political party history.

ITW, is Hitlery a typo?

all the best...

[InTheWind]

An interesting read on the political party history.

ITW, is Hitlery a typo?

all the best...


Why certainly :p

[CoreIssue]

An interesting read on the political party history.

ITW, is Hitlery a typo?

all the best...


Why certainly :p
:roflmbo: