today

[a.baker]

It was sure nice to go to church today but I was a little disappointed in the service today. First they were doing some shout abouts for people who had done good deeds and than our pastor was gone, so a woman did the sermon today. I just couldn't focus on what she was saying and her message was nothing new or insightful. For the first time I was getting really tired and bored with God's message.

So after service I went to Sunday school class and that was really nice. Our subject today was about raising generous children. We talked a lot about worldly things and materialistic views and peer pressure on kids. I am getting ready for a class called breadline which is something I have been looking forward to.

At times it seems the church I go to is so right and other times (not very often) it seems to get off course and that just really bothers me. But overall it is a good church.

So that was my day :):

Anyone else?

[CoreIssue]

Is the church changing positions?

[kay-gee]

A woman preaching?!

all the best...

[a.baker]

No their not changing positions; I guess she was just a substitute for the day. The pastor was traveling back from a conference I guess. Me and my husband had a big discussion on it today.

I went to the class called Breadline tonight and that was so great. I think we left with more questions than what the original question from scripture was focussed on; but it is good stuff to think about. Basically God reveals so much to us and we know Him well but yet He is still very mysterious. We got into all sorts with that.
In the end it is nice to gather in a group and talk about Him and scripture; something I have talked about wanting since this summer.

[Willy]

Some thirty odd years ago, within a few months of being saved, I happened to be in Vancouver, British Columbia, with two friends who also had been recently saved. We were in the downtown east side attending an auction and when we came out at the end of the auction, I noticed the sign. …”Carrol Street Mission”, and the verse “The blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.” I convinced my two cohorts to come inside with me.
Well, it was not as rough on skid row then, as it is now, but the majority of the people there had certainly seen better days.

Since I had been attending a local Gospel Hall, I was a little surprised when a woman of about fifty years of age stood up, and opening her bible, read in a very clear and distinct voice,
“Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for [that] which had not been told them shall they see; and [that] which they had not heard shall they consider.” (Isaiah 52:12-15) KJV.

The NIV renders it,” See, my servant will act wisely; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted. Just as there were many who were appalled at him -- his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness—so will he sprinkle many nations, and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand.”

I remember one of my friends elbowing me in the side and with eyes wide, whispering, “Is that really in the Scripture?” I nodded yes, although it was the first time I had heard it expounded.
The power and passion with which that dear sister preached God’s Word that evening, I will never forget.

[kay-gee]

The point is not really whether a woman has the ability to preach or not (I'm sure many are very gifted in both knowledge and oratorical skills) The point is that Gods word forbids it. Period! You choose to follow His word in all things pertaining to faith and Worship or you don't. To me, a church that has woman preaching has dis-regarded the Word. Please don't mis-understand me. I am not a woman hater or anything. In fact I admire women and the achievements they have made in all areas of life, but one thing remains. Gods word is Gods Word.

all the best...

[roman8]

I am a little confused. God Gave women the gift of prophecy. Miriam and others . Is prophecy not the speaking of the word of God?

I think there is a difference between sharing Gods word and Teaching Gods word.

I dont understand why the Lord would lift women up , like Debra for example a judge and now he has changed, he doesnt want us to speak his word, something doesnt jive with me.:scratch:

[CoreIssue]

KG is correct. Women preaching or teaching to men is strictly forbidden, OT and NT. Period. But note I said to men, not children or women.

God established a 'chain of command.' Men are heads of the churches and households, not equal or ever inferior to women.

Now, what being head means is a whole other issue, which parts company with those who try to make the claim this makes women less intelligent, not wise, to not value their opinions or any other such thing. It simply means men are leaders, women are not, when it comes to issues of authority.

As for women prophets and such, yes there are such. But they are always under the authority of a man, a fact often missed or neglected.

Hope that helps.

[a.baker]

Yes there is nothing wrong according to scripture to let a woman have a voice, work or to vote. But like Core and Kaygee said, we as women are not to teach men the Word. There is so much scripture pointing to this area of who can do what and so on. We as women can most definitely talk and share the Word but we cannot for example be a pastor or reverend to a congregation full of men. There is even scripture some where in the NT saying that deacons are also only to be men. I see so many women now a days on the board of deacons.

[roman8]

What about a wife sharing the word of God with her husband?
For example , my Husband would ask me alot of questions when he first believed and I would answer . we now encourage one another.

Dont get me wrong I have read what the bible says , and I dont dispute it . I am trying to understand the difference between , Preaching,teaching and sharing the word.

there is a woman on T.V (she is at a local station) that I quite enjoy listening to . She has a wonderful way of sharing the word , so is she preaching , teaching or sharing ?

She will read scripture and then talk about it usually relating it to some personal experience, I do find that I connect with her maybe because she is woman , funny enough Hubby doesnt care for her .

[Jessie]

I might be wrong but men do not naturally accept a woman in "authority" iits not natural.

I'd say she is preaching if shes on tv teaching the word.

we are helpmates not to take the lead, but to help.

[roman8]

I might be wrong but men do not naturally accept a woman in "authority" iits not natural.

I'd say she is preaching if shes on tv teaching the word.

we are helpmates not to take the lead, but to help.

So if she is preaching I should not be watching her? I really like her :( She is like a grandma type person , very soft and comforting ( not that my grandma was like that , British , so she was tough) maybe thats why I like her, shes like the grandma I never had:shrug:

i understand that men do not like women in authority, nor do I for that matter it doesnt feel right . Its kind of funny I had a female manager I could not stand the way she pushed people around, it really erked me, I think a large part of it is because she is female , because when one of the guys tells me what to do it doesnt really bug me. It could also be my pride issues , have a bit of problem with it . Some thing I could use a little ( alot ) of prayer for .

[Jessie]

there are some wemon I liked to listen to. but as I've realized that Gods word just does'nt permit
them being pastors ect. I stopped. I dont like to give them the idea that what they are doing is ok.

many send them money to keep them on the air, ect.
and too many errors too.

hope I made sense!

[a.baker]

:pray: Praying for you tonight Roman8. When I went into church on Sunday and saw that it was a woman preaching I was instantly but yet silently angry. That is probably why I couldn't pay attention to anything she was saying. I found myself ignoring her and reading my bible in places where it speaks of women and men.

I did; I felt the church went against Gods word there that day and I didn't have a warm fuzzy feeling with many people at church; the ones who seemed to prefer a woman preaching that is. I have a lot of struggles and things to work on myself. We can always pray for each other :nod: :hug:

[Jessie]

I think core pretty well listed it out, wemon teach other wemon and children but not the men.

I wonder is this wemon teaching other men caused men to be weak which we see so much of today?

I think if a dh is asking questions of his wife she can answer too, but its not preaching.

[a.baker]

It is funny you mention being weak Jessie, because yesterday when me and my husband were talking about women I said to him "Haven't you ever noticed when a woman has some sort of authority everything beneath her is weak and things don't get along well"? I than told him that women are weak and men are more strong. Thats the way God made us for specific reasons and roles. One reason why for example we should not have a woman president; than my husband tells me I sound like a bigot. But I tell him that thats what the world wants you to think but it is not true. Sigh; people and fleshy desires.

[Jessie]

It is funny you mention being weak Jessie, because yesterday when me and my husband were talking about women I said to him "Haven't you ever noticed when a woman has some sort of authority everything beneath her is weak and things don't get along well"? I than told him that women are weak and men are more strong. Thats the way God made us for specific reasons and roles. One reason why for example we should not have a woman president; than my husband tells me I sound like a bigot. But I tell him that thats what the world wants you to think but it is not true. Sigh; people and fleshy desires.

agreed!

hes bought that we are equal in all things hook line and sinker...:swoon:

[Willy]

The point is not really whether a woman has the ability to preach or not (I'm sure many are very gifted in both knowledge and oratorical skills) The point is that Gods word forbids it. Period! You choose to follow His word in all things pertaining to faith and Worship or you don't. To me, a church that has woman preaching has dis-regarded the Word. Please don't mis-understand me. I am not a woman hater or anything. In fact I admire women and the achievements they have made in all areas of life, but one thing remains. Gods word is Gods Word.

all the best...

I certainly agree with your principal of following God's Word with respect to faith and Worship. As I said in my post, I was surprised to see a woman stand up and preach. She did an admirable job and for that I will always remember what she did. The reason I posted was to draw this issue out as I feel there is much value in pursuing "why" our sisters in the Lord are to remain silent and also wear a covering when the Church is gathered. I also believe it is enough to just obey God's Word on the issue, but it is always better that if a principal or reason is given then we should explore that principal.
Now, the issue is definitely headship, but in what context? Just men and women in a Church, or maybe a testimony of a greater restoration of headship?
Remember , God's Word lasts forever and long after we are at home with the Lord, the principals in the Word will be there for all to study with little regard for the atrocities done to it in this present evil age. :rapture:

Willy

[kay-gee]

A couple of miles up the road from us is a small village. I have recently learned of Thursday night Bible studies they hold there and have expressed and interest in attending. It is held in a quaint Anglican (Episcopal) church building. I learned that This denomination has appointed woman so-called "priests", and there may be one officiating at this study. I am in a dilemma because now I have to try to make excuses why I am no showing up, after expressing much enthusiasm. I do not feel, I could in good concsience, participate in this, as it violates scripture. Whatever is not of faith is sin...Paul says. I do not feel God owes anyone an explanation for why he demands certain things. He requires our obedience. Jesus said "if you Love Me you will keep my commandments".

all the best...

[a.baker]

That is a hard one Kaygee because while so many claim to follow His Word if you show them scripture where they may be going against it they don't want to hear it and it only angers them. I understand your dilemma.

[kay-gee]

Yeah...it is easy to get targeted as narrow minded or bigoted. I guess sometimes, one has to take a stand. I do not act according to human opinion, but by Gods Word. These denominations that just do their own thing, regardless of the word, always floor me! The question I constantly ask is where does innocent ignorance end and willful dis-obedience begin?

all the best...

[InTheWind]

We can`t be responsible for the stupidity of others. :(

[Willy]

Yeah...it is easy to get targeted as narrow minded or bigoted. I guess sometimes, one has to take a stand. I do not act according to human opinion, but by Gods Word. These denominations that just do their own thing, regardless of the word, always floor me! The question I constantly ask is where does innocent ignorance end and willful dis-obedience begin?

all the best...

Kay-gee, God bless you for taking a stand.


In my town …


In June 2002 the decision-making synod of the Anglican Church in greater Vancouver voted to ask the bishop to allow clergy to bless long-term same sex, covented relationships. The Right Reverend Bishop consented to the request, and in May 2003 he issued a rite of blessing. The first blessing took place a few days later.
The synod had voted not once but three times to bless permanent, faithful same sex relationships. The desire was to ensure that homosexuals who seek to be included in the Anglican Communion feel safe and respected.
The majority of Anglicans in the Greater Vancouver area acknowledged their belief that homosexuality is a normative variation of human nature, morally neutral in and of itself, and that what is wrong is homophobia and religiously based prejudice.

A short while after these blessings started, a delegation of Anglican Bishops from Africa came to visit Right Reverend Bishop. They presented the case that in their country the Aids virus was decimating whole towns and villages. They went on to say that many people were leaving Christian Churches and converting to Islam because of the liberal stance some Anglican churches were taking on this issue.


The issue is not about a particular sin … homosexuality. We are all sinners and deserve only God’s wrath. The issue is about a particular group claiming to be a Christian Church misleading these people into believing that their lifestyle is not a sin.

I think we all have to be concerned about this.


So, ... I find myself trying to define more correctly, principles of Christian Gathering, headship, who should be a Pastor, etc.



Lots of prayer on this one please …


Willy