I am confused Is Jesus God

[riz]

I am confused that is Jesus GOD. As a christian we have to follow the bible word by word. But know where in the bible Jesus claims to be God or say worship me. Is that people made up afterwards or is it some thing that has no proof.

[kay-gee]

Perhaps a little closer examination of the scriptures is needed in this case.

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Well, to begin with riz is a Muslim, not a Christian.

Now, with that said, Jesus lived on the earth as a human to fulfill the work of the cross. He set aside his divinity during that time, so of course he would not say worship him.

Now, as to claiming to be God, he most assurdly did:
John 3
13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%203:13&version=31#fen-NIV-26124a)]
John 8
23But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
John 10

30I and the Father are one."
31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Luke 22
30so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
John 17
5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
John 20

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" 29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
And while dealing with cults, the following links contained show Jesus accepted worship.

Some of the most significant statements Jesus made regarding His deity actually involve an argument from silence - what Jesus did not say. In no less than 12 instances, Jesus was worshipped by various people - the wise men,55 (http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html#n55) the disciples,56 (http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html#n56) a leper,57 (http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html#n57) a synagogue official,58 (http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html#n58) a woman of Canaan,59 (http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html#n59) Mother of Zebedee's children,60 (http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html#n60) a blind man,61 (http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html#n61) angels,62 (http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html#n62) and everybody in heaven.63 (http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html#n63) The Bible clearly indicates that God alone is to be worshipped.64 (http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html#n64) Even Jesus proclaimed this to Satan, when he tempted Him and demanded that He worship him.65 (http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html#n65) Some members of cults claim that the people who worshipped Jesus did so improperly. There are a number of examples where people attempted to worship the disciples66 (http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html#n66) or angels67 (http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html#n67) and were warned not to do so by the parties being worshipped. Jehovah's Witnesses claim that Jesus is the archangel Michael. However, the Bible clearly indicates that angels are not to be worshipped.68 (http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html#n68) The problem arises that Jesus never told anyone to stop worshipping Him. If Jesus were not God, to say nothing in the face of worship would be a huge sin. So, if Jesus is not God, then He sinned in allowing others to worship Him. If He sinned, then Jesus could not even be the Savior, since the Savior must be without spot or blemish. By claiming that Jesus is not God, the cults turn Him into a liar and impostor.


And more. Plus the Apostles said he was God.
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%201;&version=31;#fen-NIV-26040a)] it.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%201;&version=31;#fen-NIV-26049d)] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

And OT prophecy said he was God. God said unto God you will be my son and the Lord of Righteousness would be king.

Pretty solidly stated Jesus is God incarnate.

[riz]

Well if we take the first verse.
John 3
13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%203:13&version=31#fen-NIV-26124a)]

The Bible contadicts itself when it is also said Adam and Eve were in heavens before they committed the sin.

These videos below can be very helpful to clarify your minds. Please see them in order.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ3po7AtQ-o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ixZPgCZIM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W862GyOuiWY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWzSC4ERZM4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqVIaUnTnTE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19y4oWNEcJI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZvc65MWHME&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F66JScrIBgA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLkG_OK5d6M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZrDjb2HZT8&feature=related

[kay-gee]

When did the bible say Adam and eve were in heaven before they sinned. Please get it straight before we can have any meaningful discussion
all the best...

[riz]

What about these verses of the bible.
John 4: 34
34"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

John 5:30
30.By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
John 7:16
16.Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me.
John 7:28
28Then Jesus, still teaching in the temple courts, cried out, "Yes, you know me, and you know where I am from. I am not here on my own, but he who sent me is true. You do not know him,
John 14:24
24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

After reading these verses one can imagine Jesus is reffering to some God in the heavens no to himself. All he is saying is the same what muslims believe.

Matthew 19:17, Jesus responded to one who addressed him as “O good master”, saying: “Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God.” If he rejected being called “good”,[1] (http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/#_ftn1)[2] and stated that only God is truly good, he clearly implies that he is not God.

[1] (http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/#_ftnref1)[2] Jesus here rejects being called ‘perfectly good’, because perfection belongs only to God. He was ‘good’, but, being the “Son of man”(Mat. 19:29)—as he liked to call himself—he was capable of error.

In John 14:28, Jesus was saying: “The Father is greater than I.” By stating that the “Father” is greater than himself, Jesus distinguishes himself from God. Also in John 20:17, Jesus told Mary Magdalene to tell his followers: “I ascend unto my Father and your Father; and to my God and your God.” Jesus’ reference to God as “my Father and your Father” further emphasizes the distinction between himself and God. Furthermore, by referring to God as “his God”, he left no room for anyone to intelligently claim that he was God.

Let see what the Quran says about the virgin birth of Jesus.
Chapter 3 verse 45 ,46, 47

Behold! the angels said "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. (45) "He shall speak to the people in childhood And in maturity and he shall be (of the company) of the righteous." (46) She said: "O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth; when He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it `Be', and it is!

[CoreIssue]

Riz, a rule of CTZ is to answer challenges. Now please answer KG's question because he is right. What you claimed in false about Adam and Eve.

[CoreIssue]

What about these verses of the bible.
John 4: 34
34"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

John 5:30
30.By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
John 7:16
16.Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me.
John 7:28
28Then Jesus, still teaching in the temple courts, cried out, "Yes, you know me, and you know where I am from. I am not here on my own, but he who sent me is true. You do not know him,
John 14:24
24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

After reading these verses one can imagine Jesus is reffering to some God in the heavens no to himself. All he is saying is the same what muslims believe.

This is what I call Shopping Cart Theology. Meaning disregard all else said on the subject.

John 1 tells us Jesus is the Word, who was God with God, who became flesh.

So Jesus is directly called God. And I posted verses in another thread showing Jesus as God, called himself God and accepted worship.

You are doing the classical Muslim style arguments, which are based on dividing all the facts into little bitty pieces and trying to put claims on them separately to defend your positions.

Your claim here is false assumption because when you add in all the facts you see there is completely harmony with the Second Person of the Trinity becoming the Son, laying aside his deity, and functioning as a human man.

So, of course, he would be working for God the Father, not himself, as a man.

Matthew 19:17, Jesus responded to one who addressed him as “O good master”, saying: “Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God.” If he rejected being called “good”, and stated that only God is truly good, he clearly implies that he is not God.

Your assumption, taking the issue out of context.

In referring to his humanity, of course he is not God.

Again, a disregard of the rest of the Bible and this disregards the norms on language demanded by rules of grammar, semantics and analysis.
[2] Jesus here rejects being called ‘perfectly good’, because perfection belongs only to God. He was ‘good’, but, being the “Son of man”(Mat. 19:29)—as he liked to call himself—he was capable of error.
Capable and commiting error are two different issues.

God is capable of doing evil, but he does not because it is alien to his nature.

Again, a false argument.

In John 14:28, Jesus was saying: “The Father is greater than I.” By stating that the “Father” is greater than himself, Jesus distinguishes himself from God. Also in John 20:17, Jesus told Mary Magdalene to tell his followers: “I ascend unto my Father and your Father; and to my God and your God.” Jesus’ reference to God as “my Father and your Father” further emphasizes the distinction between himself and God. Furthermore, by referring to God as “his God”, he left no room for anyone to intelligently claim that he was God.
No, he is saying God is greater than his humanity, which has nothing to do with his divinity.

And a total disregard of what I posted in the the other thread where he is identified as God incarnate.

Shopping Cart Theology, a classic tool of false relgion and doctrine.


Let see what the Quran says about the virgin birth of Jesus.
Chapter 3 verse 45 ,46, 47

Behold! the angels said "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. (45) "He shall speak to the people in childhood And in maturity and he shall be (of the company) of the righteous." (46) She said: "O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth; when He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it `Be', and it is!

Pointless. Written as a prophecy 600 years after Christ lived on the earth. Proves nothing.

And this is but one version of the Quran, the one that was not destroyed by the ruler who picked from the versions written about 200 years after Mohammed died.

To listen to the Quran the Quran must be provable. It isn't. It violated the Prophets and the test of a false Prophet.

Please first answer KG's question. Just preaching is not allowed, and to be honest, that is what every Muslim who has been on historically has wanted to do, just preach. Please be different.

And yes, some of tried to discuss on an Islamic Board, but got shut down the second we questioned anything. Told we were not allowed to question Mohammed.

Some discussion. They could preach at us but we could not post historical proofs against the Quaran, Islam or Mohammed. Instead of discussing and debating to find the truth, we were told to shut up.

Here, we do allow open discussion. But it has to be two way, as in you made a claim about Adam and Eve, were challenged it is not in the Bible, so it is your obligation to post the verses, to which we will have an obligation to accept or prove otherwise.

[CTZonEdit]

And yes, some of tried to discuss on an Islamic Board, but got shut down the second we questioned anything. Told we were not allowed to question Mohammed.

Some discussion. They could preach at us but we could not post historical proofs against the Quaran, Islam or Mohammed. Instead of discussing and debating to find the truth, we were told to shut up.

I can attest to this.

As soon as we began questioning Mohammed and the Quran no one had answers. Only rehtoric, insults, lies and backstabbing from members and admins on one of the largest Islamic run boards.

They were invited here to discuss and would not. Actions speak volumes.

[InTheWind]

Actions speak volumes.
Always does. :nod: