How Did Prophets Preach By Lee Martone [Archive]

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Lee Martone

11-26-2007, 01:52 AM

I would like for you all to check out my new letter called

How Did Prophets Preach

I was reading my Bible and this Scripture really jumped out at me. Luke 3:7 living Bible version--{Here is a sample of John's preaching to the crowds that came for baptism: ``You brood of snakes! You are trying to escape hell without truly turning to God! That is why you want to be baptized!} I wonder what the world would say about John the Baptist’s preaching in our day and time. They probably would say that he was self righteous, and hypocritical. Compare that with what Jesus had to say about him. He said in Matthew 11:11 { "Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; } and then John the Baptist doubted that Jesus was the Christ and that is why the scripture goes on to say this, {but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.} When John was preaching the good news to the people in the harsh way he was preaching, Jesus called him great in the kingdom of God. What kind of preaching do we get today, it goes something like this –If you’ll just do good and try to do your best, God will bless you. I am your pastor and I am here to tell you how you can be a better person. Jesus wants you rich not poor, He doesn’t want you to go through anything bad. End quote. Now I ask you, does this kind of message sound familiar to you. What the preacher should be telling them is how to be a totally new born again person, not a better person. And God knows if money will corrupt you or not, so if you will be corrupted by money God will probably not allow you to be rich. The People who love the message of prosperity would most likely hate the message of Jesus and John the Baptist if they were here today. What was the first words out of Jesus’ and John’s mouth when they began their earthly ministry, They both said Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is near. They did not tell them that they were fine as they were. They were not concerned with what the people thought about Them, They did not worry about loosing members, in fact the Bible records in many cases that the crowds were so great that the People who wanted to see Jesus could not because of the immense crowd of people around Him. They flocked around Him because the Bible says that He taught as one who had authority and not as their teachers of the Law. He preached the Words of Our Heavenly Father, with all the authority of Heaven, for He was God in the flesh, of course, I’m sure the sinful people of His day hated Him and all He stood for. He was the Light of the world and the darkness of men’s hearts fled form that light. Only God can change the thoughts and attitudes of the human heart. The preachers of today need to quit telling the people to just do better, All they really need is to find Jesus and to have a personal relationship with Him and obey Him. Jesus said Himself -{Who is it that loves me, it is he who keeps my commandments, he is the one who loves Me. John {14:21} That is all they will ever need. To be free is to have God’s spirit of freedom and power over sin, but to be right with God in keeping with being free from sin, you must remember that you are nothing without God’s power to keep you walking the path of righteousness. You have absolutely no power to overcome sin on your own. You must rely totally on the Lord Jesus to conquer the strongholds of the devil. There are many new religions out there that the devil has concocted for the soul purpose of driving people away from Jesus. These new religions have the appearance of Godliness. These religions have a gradual way of slipping into the Church so many people do not recognize the deception of these false teachings. These religions sound a lot like God but they have removed one very important thing. {Jesus Christ}, these new religions will tell you not to commit sin, but they took away the only power that you have to overcome sin. The devil knows that without Jesus the world doesn’t stand a chance against Him. The devil’s idea is {No Jesus, No Power}. The Devil doesn’t care if you try to do good or if you go to church or any other religious act you can do to try to overcome sin, as long as Jesus Christ is removed, you are still headed for Hell. Going to Church every time the doors are opened will not save you, taking the Lords Supper will not save you. Only having an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ and obeying Him will save you. I love the way Jesus puts it in John 15: 4-6 { Take care to live in me, and let me live in you. For a branch can't produce fruit when severed from the vine. Nor can you be fruitful apart from me. Yes, I am the Vine; you are the branches. Whoever lives in me and I in him shall produce a large crop of fruit. For apart from me you can't do a thing. If anyone separates from me, he is thrown away like a useless branch, withers, and is gathered into a pile with all the others and burned.} This scripture is clearly talking about a saved person that was once a servant and now has backslidden and has become useless to God’s kingdom, you can clearly see what happens to him if he doesn’t return to the Lord before He dies. He is gathered into a pile with all the others and burned.} This would indicate Hell Fire. The Lord is not willing that any perish, but would turn to Him before it is too late. The Lord will always receive anyone back who repents, but what if you are killed in some way while you are in a backslidden state. You will not make it to Heaven, so there is only one other Choice left and it is not pretty. Please repent from all of your sins and turn to God for forgiveness today. He is always waiting for you, just call to Him and He will come. To know His presence is total peace. May the Lord Jesus Christ be with your Spirit, Amen. Lee at www.Yeshuastruth.com or www.jesussalvation.org

CoreIssue

11-26-2007, 03:25 PM

A lot good but some error in what you said.

Remember a fact, the greatests of lies are build on a grain of truth.

First, not just Jesus, but the true Jesus. Many false Jesus' have entered the world. We find them in such as the LDS, JW's, Mysticism and more.

Second, you said:

This scripture is clearly talking about a saved person that was once a servant and now has backslidden and has become useless to God’s kingdom, you can clearly see what happens to him if he doesn’t return to the Lord before He dies. He is gathered into a pile with all the others and burned.} This would indicate Hell Fire. The Lord is not willing that any perish, but would turn to Him before it is too late. The Lord will always receive anyone back who repents, but what if you are killed in some way while you are in a backslidden state. You will not make it to Heaven, so there is only one other Choice left and it is not pretty. Please repent from all of your sins and turn to God for forgiveness today.

To be condemned to Hell requires being under the Law. Born-again are not under the Law, but grace.

Yes, there are backslidden. No, they are not condemned to Hell for it.

One's spirit, not their flesh or minds are born-again. And flesh can keep on chained to more sin than they should. But reality is none of us cease to sin in the flesh, so what degree of sin in one's life condemns them?

You keep citing things said under Mosaic Law. Where are the verses dealing with these things under Church, not Israel?

Also, you miss the statement in what was said. Born-again keep the Law not out of requirement, but Love of Christ. You do not seem to understand the distinction.

Many verses speak of those who have shared in the Holy Spirit. That does not mean they are born-again, but it means by being in association with those who are they have shared in their blessings of the Holy Spirit.

None of these folk are ever called brother, saints, Church, Body or any phrase remotely hinting they are born-again.

Romans 8 says our salvation is in God's hands, not ours. It says nothing in all of creation can take us from God once his.

That, my friend, is Eternal Security.

Those you speak of were never born-again. They are of the camp who stand before Christ speaking their works for Christ for salvation while they personally never belonged to Christ.

Assocation does not make one a saint. Being washed in the blood of Christ does. In, not around, Christ and the Holy Spirit are two very distiinctly different realities.

Jesus on the tongue but not in the heart is never saved.

Lee Martone

11-26-2007, 10:06 PM

CoreIssue, do you believe in once saved always saved. Lee

CoreIssue

11-27-2007, 12:02 AM

CoreIssue, do you believe in once saved always saved. Lee
Yep.
Romans 8
28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%208&version=31#fen-NIV-28130j)] who[k (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%208&version=31#fen-NIV-28130k)] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
31What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."[l (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%208&version=31#fen-NIV-28138l)] 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[m (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%208&version=31#fen-NIV-28140m)] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Show me any allowance in this passage for one to loose salvation. The terms are non conditional and absolutes.

Secure Arminianism - one comes to God in freewill and then is Eternally Secure by predestination.

Dead to the Law, thus the no way to loose salvation because that requires Law. Free to sin but by duty does not sin.

Our flesh and minds will not be pure while in the earthly flesh. Our flesh will not be pure until glorification.

A lot of fake Christians out there, as you well know. So, our failure to recognize some as fake does not justify saying they lost what they never had.

Really, if you study the issue through the Bible is quite firm there will be no rebellions in Eternity. No further angelic rebellions before Eternity.

One comes to an eternal decision that they will never change from. That is why no allowance for rebellion in eternity in the New Jerusalem and such. And no room for repenting and every leaving the Lake of Fire. Both are eternal.

Lee Martone

11-28-2007, 02:54 AM

God gave me the ability to have my own web site for this purpose, to teach against the Doctrine of demons. More People have backslidden into sin because of this lie from Satan. Here is the thoughts on the matter backed up by scripture. And I pray that after you read this letter that your eyes will be opened to the truth from God’s Word.
Once Saved Not Always Saved
I will prove from the scriptures that this { once saved always saved idea is from Satan himself. And then I will untwist the scriptures that these misguided preachers twist to suit their doctrine of heresy. They say that there is nothing you can do that will make you loose your salvation, that when you got saved all your past, present, and future sins are all covered. This is against the word of God, and a stench in God’s nostrils. First we look at the strongest of the scriptures that proves my point. In { Ezekiel 18: verse 24 and verse 26 it says But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die. verse 26 If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it, because of the sin he has committed he will die. And in the Amplified Bible it says die in your sins which would be more accurate because any time the Bible says die in your sins, it means you go to hell. Some will say that is the old testament, that It doesn’t apply to today. Look at the Gospel of {Luke 9:62} in the Amplified Bible Jesus said to him no one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back to the things behind is fit for the kingdom of God. notice that Jesus said the same thing that Ezekiel said only said a little different way. Are you starting to get the picture now. Lets move on. This scripture is talking about a saved person. I will explain after the Scripture. 2 peter 2:20-21 NIV Bible, If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. After you come to a full knowledge of Christ and escape the pollutions of the world Through the gospel you are a saved person. But if you turn your back on the Word of God and fall back into sin and do not repent it is worse for you in the end than it was for you in the beginning when you were lost because you now have no excuse. You knew God and knowing God you still turned your back on him. Now we will look at Hebrews 10:26-32 This scripture is also talking about a saved person. If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that {sanctified} him, and who has insulted the Spirit of Grace? Any one who has been sanctified has been purified, and set apart for the plans and purposes of God. That means the person has been saved. If the saved person turns back to sin, he disgraces himself and God and insulted the Holy Spirit. If a once saved person does not repent and continues in their sin God will Put into effect Revelation 2:5 Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lamp stand from its place. In this particular scripture the lamp stand represents the Holy Spirit. Jesus says that if you do not repent he will take your Holy Spirit away from you, and you will walk in darkness, without the light. God will not tolerate sin. Without Holiness no one sees the Lord. {Hebrews 12:14} {Matthew 7:21} Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers! Do backsliders do the will of the Father in Heaven? No they do not. Revelation 21:27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life. Are backsliders impure do backsliders do shameful and deceitful things? Yes they do. In Matthew 10:22 says he who stands firm to the end will be saved. do backsliders stand firm in the faith? No they do not. Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. A true Christian does not do evil. A true Christian may sin unknowingly, but they do not practice evil. Backsliders do all sorts of evil. They do not respond to the pricking of the Holy Spirit, they ignore the still small voice that says don’t do that, for the penalty of sin is death. Stop, what will Jesus think. The Backslider doesn’t care about what Jesus thinks. They just want their sin. They chose sin over the love of God. {John 10:28:29}I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I believe this scripture. No one can snatch you out of God’s hand but you can walk out of his hand. If you stay in his hand and follow him no one will be able to snatch you out of his hand but if you go back to sinning, you chose to walk out of his hand, out of his will, out of his presence, and out of his protection . You sure can loose your salvation by persisting in sin and not repenting. You can’t work your way into Heaven, rather good works prove that you are saved. Your good works are generated by the Holy Spirit, proving the presence of God in your heart. Lets look at 1 John 3:9-10 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him, he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are. Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God, so is anyone who does not love his brother.1 Corinthians 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too. You cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons. you can’t have your cake and eat it to, you can’t live like the devil and still go to Heaven. Look at what Isaiah 7:9 says If you do not stand firm in your faith, you will not stand at all. Backsliders are very much into the world, they are a friend of the world. Lets look at James 4:4 for a moment. You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God. Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. And 1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the father is not in him. Titus 1:16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. and 2 Timothy 2:19 everyone who confesses the name of the lord {must} turn away from wickedness. 1 John 5:4 For everyone born of God overcomes the world. Hebrews 10:39 But our way is not that of those who draw back to eternal misery {Perdition} and are utterly destroyed. Perdition is hell, as in the son of Perdition. Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to eternal life, and only a few find it. Listen to what Jude verse 4 has to say about these eternal security preachers. For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. and in Colossians 2:8 Paul also talks about them. See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. 1 Timothy 4:1-2 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teaching comes through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. Romans 16:17-18 I urge you brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own {appetites}. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of {naïve people}. These eternal security teachings is very appealing to the backslider because it allows for sin to reign in their lives. God will not tolerate sin. This teaching also says it is OK for you to go on sinning because you are saved forever. This teaching removes the responsibly of living a Holy life. Since when did God excuse sin. Since when did God say that sin was OK. God is a Holy God, so Holy that he cannot look upon sin. {Habakkuk 1:13.} any body who Loves sin will also love eternal security preachers, and hate the other kind that teach that you have to live Holy as the Bible really teaches. Look at what Jesus said in John 15:18 If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is , you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. the sinful world will hate the teaching of Jesus because Jesus taught perfection. Jesus’ words - Matthew 5:48 Be perfect therefore as your heavenly Father is perfect. Luke 6:46 Why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not do what I say. John 14:15 If you love me you will obey what I command. Backsliders hate this verse! John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. by this verse we know who loves Jesus and who doesn’t, who belongs to him and who doesn’t. this next verse is equally distasteful to backsliders. John 15:6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers, such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. backsliders do not remain with him, they choose sin over him and that is a hell sentence. It is possible to live a Holy life because Jesus’ power to conquer sin is there for the asking, but some people do not want his power, they want sin instead. Look at what Jesus says in John 14:23 If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him and we will come to him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. Do backsliders obey his teaching, no, they do not. Luke 13:24 Make every effort to enter through the narrow door because many I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, Sir, open the door for us. But he will answer, I don’t know you or where you come from. Then you will say we ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets. But he will reply, I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers! There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. in Revelation all the letters to the Churches that Jesus gave all said to him who overcomes why would he ask you to be an over comer if you couldn’t, wouldn’t that be mean of God to tell you to do something you could not do. Be open minded, God never tried to confuse us. I Could go on and on but I think by now you get the picture. With this much light shed on this subject, you would have to read this letter with your eyes closed to still believe in { once saved always saved.} It is not true and it never will be true no matter how much sinful people try to twist the scriptures so they can sin and get away with it. I pray that this letter will change your mind because remember if you disagree with this letter you disagree with the word of God. God be with you.
Lee Martone 8-26-06

CoreIssue

11-28-2007, 12:45 PM

OK. You just did the classical cult answer. You dodged.

You don't answer challenges, you just pump out new preaching. And stated to disagree with your opinions is to disagree with God.

So, please walk through this passage, which you dodged, and tell me what it means, by itself and of itself. No jumping away, trying to define it by posting other verses or any such thing. Tell me what this passage says.
Romans 8
28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%208&version=31#fen-NIV-28130j)] who[k (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%208&version=31#fen-NIV-28130k)] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
31What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."[l (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%208&version=31#fen-NIV-28138l)] 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[m (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%208&version=31#fen-NIV-28140m)] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

A rule of CTZ is to answer challenges. I answered you on more than one thread and you have yet to answer a challenge. Not allowed and time to end it.

So, instead of trying to overwhelm opposition with tons of words, let us take it simple, starting with this passage.

Lee Martone

11-29-2007, 02:11 AM

kay-gee

11-29-2007, 09:58 AM

Lee, I appreciate your teaching on this subject. I for one, have never been able to embrace the doctrine of once saved always saved.

all the best...

CoreIssue

11-29-2007, 11:55 AM

Lee, I appreciate your teaching on this subject. I for one, have never been able to embrace the doctrine of once saved always saved.

all the best...
More intuition, KG. Forget studying.

CoreIssue

11-29-2007, 12:00 PM

Romans 8:28--And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him: Those who love Him is the key works in this verse. Backsliders do not love Him so this verse in not for the backsliders. Jesus said who is it that loves me, it is he who keeps my commandments, he is the one who loves me.

Then, as I said, they were never saved to begin with, thus Conditional Salvation is wrong.

No one is saved by works. Love is not a work. One keeps commandments out of love, not legal demand to be saved.

Now, cover the rest of the passage, it tells you your proposition is wrong and thus why you didn't go over it. What a backslidder is means something entirely different from one never saved who is a fraud from the beginning.

Jessie

11-29-2007, 12:07 PM

so little corrupt man is going to save himself by his works in front of a holy God?

I dont think so. either Jesus blood on that cross was enough or nothing is.

Lee Martone

11-29-2007, 12:28 PM

Lee Martone

11-29-2007, 12:31 PM

InTheWind

11-29-2007, 12:41 PM

Thank you Kaygee, don’t listen to CoreIssue. To much pride has clouded his judgment, He walks around in darkness, and has no light in himself. John 7:17{ anyone who is prepared to do his will,
will know whether my teaching is from God or whether I speak on my own account.}
Kaygee is one of Jesus’ true sheep, that is why Katgee can see the truth in what I am saying, because the Spirit is truly living in Katgee.
The beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord and a Backslider has no fear of the Lord sense they think they are going to go to heaven anyway. Jesus said to pick up you cross daily and follow Him. The Backslider has no Cross to bare. If CoreIssue wants to know what Jesus had to say about the Church he needs to read all the letters to the Churches in revelatios. Jesus message was to repent and overcome, Backsliders do not repent and they do not overcome. You are not saved by works, rather The Spirit inside you produces good works proving that the Spirit is living inside you. Lee

That is a lie and rude, i won`t tolerate you talking about anyone like that so consider it a warning.
Five years after i was born again i back slid into drinking again, i still loved God and thought that i was doing right by preaching the word in the bars.
The Holy Spirit convicted me of my errors and after a period of time took drinking out of my life permanently.
If i would of died during the time i was backslid i have no doubt that i would of went to heaven.
The thing your missing is once saved even if you backslide the HS convicts you and you repent and eventually change. A person that may act like a Christian and appears to be born again will sin, which appears as backsliding while in reality was never saved to begin with.
Big difference.

CoreIssue

11-29-2007, 12:57 PM

Thank you Kaygee, don’t listen to CoreIssue. To much pride has clouded his judgment, He walks around in darkness, and has no light in himself. John 7:17{ anyone who is prepared to do his will,
will know whether my teaching is from God or whether I speak on my own account.}
Kaygee is one of Jesus’ true sheep, that is why Katgee can see the truth in what I am saying, because the Spirit is truly living in Katgee.
The beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord and a Backslider has no fear of the Lord sense they think they are going to go to heaven anyway. Jesus said to pick up you cross daily and follow Him. The Backslider has no Cross to bare. If CoreIssue wants to know what Jesus had to say about the Church he needs to read all the letters to the Churches in revelatios. Jesus message was to repent and overcome, Backsliders do not repent and they do not overcome. Lee
So, you are encouraging a guy who does not believe in studying the Bible to continue in his ways because he agrees with you. Hmmmmm.

You don't realize how you are doing the cult thing. Self praise of being chosen by God to get the truth out to the vast majority who is loosing it.

So, does this mean you are not going to complete the passage? It does refute you, meaning the Bible refutes you, not my personal opinion.

CoreIssue

11-29-2007, 12:58 PM

Lee Martone

11-29-2007, 01:47 PM

InTheWind

11-29-2007, 02:20 PM

As with most false preaching those that do it are rude and never answer questions, they just preach until they`er banned then they feel they have somehow won the debate. :(
Number two.

CoreIssue

11-29-2007, 02:32 PM

CoreIssue, People who talk like you do not want to let go of their sin, they will defended there once saved always saved Theory so they can continue in their sin. I was right about you when I said you would not listen to the truth. Lee
ITW is right. Pay attention.

If you have the truth and I don't, they you should be able to finish dealing with the passage.

Understand, your opinion and declarations are not the Truth. They are your opinion.

I am dealing with the what the Bible says, in full. So, first deal with the whole passage of Romans 8 cited and then we can add to it. Knock of the taking out of context and putting your spin on it.

Finish the passage, it is from God. Deal with it, if you can. But you cannot, so you evade, dodge and accuse. Classic cultism.

Prove me wrong and deal with the passage showing your claim is in it. You cannot disregard grammar, word meaning and semantics, which you are trying to do.

Jessie

11-29-2007, 06:35 PM

CoreIssue, People who talk like you do not want to let go of their sin, they will defended there once saved always saved Theory so they can continue in their sin. I was right about you when I said you would not listen to the truth. Lee

wow, that was extremely rude.

you are the one who does'nt answer questions.
all you do is talk and expect everyone to listen to YOU.

there is a huge difference between talking to people and talking at them.
you talk at people not to them.

a.baker

11-29-2007, 07:42 PM

I have to admit there was some confusion setting in me for a minute but you cleared it up for me ITW with your example of your past drinking problem and the rest of what you said! Thank you so much :hug: :tiphat: . I pray to God all the time to give me His wisdom so I will not be deceived. Sometimes His wisdom comes through others. Satan is very sneaky. O.K. every back on with the conversation... :):

CoreIssue

11-29-2007, 08:24 PM

Remember the aspects of this the Conditional Salvation don't like to get into:
1. If Christ died for all our sins, past, present and future, then there are no sins that can but us in Hell. Which is what is meant by dead to the Law. Not some Law, but all Law.
2. If Christ died for only present and past sin, then every sin condemns us again, and if we die before repenting, we go to Hell, which means no one goes to Heaven because we all sin tons every day. Not to mention Christ dies for us over and over, which the Bible calls putting him back on the Cross for this kind of thinking.
3. This belief begs the question of how much sin does it take for one to loose their salvation? Does not the Bible say the least of sins is enough to condemn one? So, by what measure of sin does on cross the line back into a non-saved state? The Bible is silent on this issue because it is a false concept.
4. Romans 8 says those who love him are predestined all the way to glorification, no expections to the point that nothing can take us from God. Predestined means not in our hands, but God's.
5. There is no repentence from Hell or loss from Heaven in the Bible. If one can lose salvation, one surely must be able to do so at any time in Eternity, as well. Which demands one can repent and escape the Lake. But the Bible says neither is true.

They take examples of unsaved people living like, or around, saints, and declare them saved who loose their salvation. But those people are never called saints, brothers, Body or any other term which demands being saved. Never.

The Bible must be in harmony with itself. Romans 8 is an unconditional set of statements. It is, not might be.

InTheWind

11-29-2007, 08:34 PM

Your welcome a.baker, check out my new signature i made today.

a.baker

11-30-2007, 02:56 AM

ITW I do like it. It makes one stop and think for a minute.

a.baker

11-30-2007, 02:59 AM

Thank you Core Issue also for clearing things up for me :D :hug: ! Your time is much appreciated!

eahaddix

11-30-2007, 03:28 AM

CoreIssue, People who talk like you do not want to let go of their sin, they will defended there once saved always saved Theory so they can continue in their sin. I was right about you when I said you would not listen to the truth. Lee

wow, that was extremely rude.

you are the one who does'nt answer questions.
all you do is talk and expect everyone to listen to YOU.

there is a huge difference between talking to people and talking at them.
you talk at people not to them.

http://www.spurgeon.org/images/pyromaniac/TeamPyro/dialog.jpg

CoreIssue

11-30-2007, 11:55 AM

:roflmbo:

Lee Martone

11-30-2007, 12:33 PM

Hi to CoreIssue and all the people who believe in once save always saved, when a backslider goes back, he or she is like the dog who returns to it's own vomit. You see in the scriptures what God said about sinning all over the place. Yet when you come across them you ignore them, or try to justified them in your hearts, so that you can live like the devil and still think you will make it to heaven. Wrong! The Bible does not contradict itself, you do that. God tells you to be Holy or at least be struggling with sin so you can make it to heaven. Humble yourselves before the mighty hand of Yahweh and He will exalt you. You see it written everywhere from the Old Testament to the New. Yet you say in your hearts I am saved, you think that just because you are saved, that gives you a license to sin so! I live like a queen and feel so secure in this lie, which cames out from the pit of Hell. You think you do not need to carry a cross. My husband went easy on all of you, and don’t give me that other lie, that than you were never saved at all. You are really pleasing Satan, by telling him that he has more power than God does. You who make the word of God powerless. You give us a few verses about how there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, but you leave out who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. Also no one shall pluck you out of my hand. As long as you stay with Him remember you have a free will you can serve Him for a while like Judas did and than turn your back on Him and loose your own soul. Now, I know we are under grace but God has a point of no return as with Judas. Always we see In the History of His Word where He will not tolerate you anymore. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of Yahweh. He said work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. So your not so hot now are you. WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION,-- AGAIN WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION. Are you a puppet? I’m not, I have the will to serve Him or not to serve Him, I am not a vegetable! Jesus said after the Holy Ghost comes upon you, you shall receive Power from on high. In My Name, you shall cast out devils. Satan who is a snake with all his cohorts that tell the naïve people already laden with sins, that you are eternally secure. God’s word has won this battle, not one of you eternally secure preachers will ever enter into His rest. You will forever be learning but never come to the understanding of Yahweh’s word. Also! I am not under the Law but the under grace, the Almighty reveals to me when I have sin by His Spirit and By His word, so that I must repent all the time and make a effort not to sin. God please open the eyes of these precious people, who are being deceived, and close the eyes of the ones who do see but will not recognized their sin because it means tolerance, to keep on sinning, that would mean more flocks in their churches and more money in their pockets. May they fall on their faces and plead for your forgiveness. I know you are going to kick me out of your forum, but I have stated our case, with plenty of proof. Do you believe God has you as a puppet on a string. Now it is up to the wise to open their eyes or at least ask Yahweh—God, to open them for you. After all this proof we have given you, it is up to you, the wise ones to live by the words, Be Holy For I am Holy, or live defeated the rest of your lives. The road is a hard road but it is God’s road! Just fallow the Holy Spirit, and the Word. I know I am under a warning and I don’t care about me but I do care for all the Christians and non-Christians who are joined in this web site. I will not refrain from the truth. We must be victorious if we are to inter into God’s Kingdom. { Nothing evil will be permitted in it--no one immoral or dishonest--but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.} Revelation 21:27 Jesus says the gate to eternal life is narrow and few will inter it, I know there are very few scriptures that would appear to be seen as you say, but God is not two ways, He is only one way. He would not ask us to be Holy if it were not possible. So you need to strive to be Holy. And get out of your comfort Zone. God has no tolerance for sin. If you kick me out for this, that is because you do not want for the people to know the truth bout God’s Word. I will not give up on telling the truth. Words to live by-- To whom truth is given if they do not want to accept them, than no truth will suffice them! God’s word wins, you loose? Anastasia Martone

CoreIssue

11-30-2007, 12:49 PM

Again you refuse to deal with the passage that refutes you and again attack our salvation.

Well, you are cult. Paul condemned the Jews that tried to bring Christians back under the Mosaic Law.

You disregard that the Church does not do the festivals and such, but you pursue moons, festivals and such as shown on your source site references. You deny the Trinity and invent word definitions that do not exist. You deny grace and demand works for salvation.

All of that could be discussed, but you do not choose to do so. You preach at us as if you are annointed prophets with the power to damn people to Hell.

Believe as you will, but not here with those attitudes.

ITW gave you warnings 1 and 2. But you in your superiority chose to disregard them.

I gave you a passage refuting your claims, but you would not deal with it because you could not spin it into your doctrine, which was why I always use that passage against Conditional Salvation, meaning you guys cannot deal with it.

You come on a board that is not yours and willingly violate the rules. You come on where people are willing to discuss and debate with you but all you can do is preach at us and command us to obey you.

Well, it does not work that way.

:bye: You are banned. Both of you from that same IP address.

CoreIssue

11-30-2007, 12:59 PM

I will add, you don't pay attention.

I stated we come to God in freewill and he predestines us to glorification. That is not Calvinism.

Also, I stated that there is something in the nature of the Eternal Choice we all arrive at, in total freewill, that will never change. Not because God won't let it change, but because like God's nature never changes neither will ours once we commit to that decision.

One does not remain at one static point or turn around once we cross the line of final decision. We either get more evil or more into God. We move forward, never turning back.

If you cannot understand that reality, then it is your problem, not mine.

Jessie

11-30-2007, 03:28 PM

hear the hate and arrogence in her post? pride and arrogence.

loads of assuming that we just love to sin, well got news for you,
not true. that is so very NOT true.

in their minds it is though.
yet they have never even met us to know.
yet proclaim harshly and loudly.

they are so insensed that they can not even see what ITW said.
did'nt even take it into consideration.

a hard hard people.

also, we are told to deal with others gently. sure did'nt see any of that here.

InTheWind

11-30-2007, 04:56 PM

Same pattern as all the rest, rudeness and preaching.
Ya beat me to it bro. :D

CoreIssue

11-30-2007, 05:00 PM

Same pattern as all the rest, rudeness and preaching.
Ya beat me to it bro. :D
I know. Just was there and made sure nothing else was posted.

InTheWind

11-30-2007, 05:07 PM

I just got home, was out showing off some of my creations. :):

CoreIssue

11-30-2007, 05:09 PM

That took some time, there are so many! :p

a.baker

11-30-2007, 09:23 PM

To Lee and mostly Lee's wife,
I never really had the chance to comment but I want to for the reason of our Christian family. One thing I want to point out is self evaluation. We all must do that daily and I suggest that you do that today. Your anger was way off the wall and God talks much of anger too and as well as how to love your brother. There is also humbling oneself and patience. You wanting to see others suffer (from what I gather in your angry response) is not Christian at all. There is a difference between wanting one to suffer and wanting justice. Something that really struck at me was the whole attitude you have in general. With it, you offend the missing and make them dislike Christians today even more so. You give the Christian family a bad stereo type. Now before you get more angry with my post I want to say again a self evaluation is needed.

Now another point I wanted to state out is how we are to grow together and have unity and peace with one another in the family and you did not show that. God asks us to do that in the family because it keeps it strong see. Bickering and not listening is childish and makes weak parts and therefore lets Satan find ways where he can intercede ( I also saw other parts of this thread go bad as well with others).

Now if you would of read Romans 8 , that Core pointed out, you would of seen why what you were arguing was not holding up. But there is much other scripture that talks of sin and the law as well we could of went on with if things didn't come to a stop as they did.

With the sinning, no we don't proceed to ignore our sins, and we are not selfish people (those who do not repent and know God are selfish). I see some people of this world you may be referring to, but because you failed to listen, you judged us too quickly, and didn't give us a minute to discuss and wrote us off without getting to know us first. We love so much because of Jesus and we repent because of our loving relationship not because of law. Yes it is written to repent and we have threads on that; you can look upon them sometime when given the chance. In fact repenting is how I realized I did not know God (before in my past). I believed but I didn't know Him. The people here at CTZ showed me I needed to read my bible and also talked of repentance. Guess what, through their love for Jesus they helped me find Him and stuck it out with me when I was difficult. I repented and continue to do so when needed because I love Him so much.

So with this I would like to ask you a personal question "How many have been brought to Jesus because of the testimony you hold and the way you present it to the missing"? A hard question to face but must ask yourself. We must be careful with the way we represent to the missing because those are the ones He longs for. There are onlookers... also the way interaction is done throughout our daily lives. In the bible it states "Above all these, the greatest is love" , "In love there is no anger" . Please, not one of us are perfect. God also has written:

1John 1:8-10 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.