Esoteric - The End

[Esoteric]

:D One of the signs of the Rapture being near is when the masses stop looking for it.

1948, Israel restored. The generation that sees that will see the Rapture.

All the required prophecies are fulfilled. It says when it all comes together the time is here, as ITW pointed out.

Being worse as in Black Plague and such is not a requirement. It says the world will be living normal and going about normal life, there will be a falling away from sound doctrine world wide, the Gospel will be known world wide and an extensive list of other requirements. All true now.

So, if a Biblical Generation is 50 years, aren't we a little off?

Mike

[Esoteric]

Please understand me. I too have the blessed hope. I believe in my eternity with Christ whether He should come today for me or I shall die and go to Him. And I also believe the Bible. Every word of it. It tells me not to speculate on times and epohs as those are Gods decisions. So I do not. I try to live each day as if it were my last. It just could be either way. Folks sometimes use the events of the day to stir up some sort of spiriual fervour. It is the blessed hope that fires me up, not the wild speculations on the events of the day!
all the best...

Exactly, we should take our hope from the Bible and not from the headlines...

Mike

[Jessie]

:D One of the signs of the Rapture being near is when the masses stop looking for it.

1948, Israel restored. The generation that sees that will see the Rapture.

All the required prophecies are fulfilled. It says when it all comes together the time is here, as ITW pointed out.

Being worse as in Black Plague and such is not a requirement. It says the world will be living normal and going about normal life, there will be a falling away from sound doctrine world wide, the Gospel will be known world wide and an extensive list of other requirements. All true now.

So, if a Biblical Generation is 50 years, aren't we a little off?



Mike


how about 120 years

[CoreIssue]

:D One of the signs of the Rapture being near is when the masses stop looking for it.

1948, Israel restored. The generation that sees that will see the Rapture.

All the required prophecies are fulfilled. It says when it all comes together the time is here, as ITW pointed out.

Being worse as in Black Plague and such is not a requirement. It says the world will be living normal and going about normal life, there will be a falling away from sound doctrine world wide, the Gospel will be known world wide and an extensive list of other requirements. All true now.

So, if a Biblical Generation is 50 years, aren't we a little off?

Mike
And where did I say 50 years?

[CoreIssue]

Please understand me. I too have the blessed hope. I believe in my eternity with Christ whether He should come today for me or I shall die and go to Him. And I also believe the Bible. Every word of it. It tells me not to speculate on times and epohs as those are Gods decisions. So I do not. I try to live each day as if it were my last. It just could be either way. Folks sometimes use the events of the day to stir up some sort of spiriual fervour. It is the blessed hope that fires me up, not the wild speculations on the events of the day!
all the best...

Exactly, we should take our hope from the Bible and not from the headlines...

Mike
And most of your beliefs are Post-Millennialist. Which is non-literal.

[Esoteric]

:D One of the signs of the Rapture being near is when the masses stop looking for it.

1948, Israel restored. The generation that sees that will see the Rapture.

All the required prophecies are fulfilled. It says when it all comes together the time is here, as ITW pointed out.

Being worse as in Black Plague and such is not a requirement. It says the world will be living normal and going about normal life, there will be a falling away from sound doctrine world wide, the Gospel will be known world wide and an extensive list of other requirements. All true now.

So, if a Biblical Generation is 50 years, aren't we a little off?

Mike
And where did I say 50 years?

That is the common Biblical understanding of a Generation... What is your understanding of a generation? Which all this is mute of course, since Christ was talking to the generation alive at that time...

Mike

[CoreIssue]

:D One of the signs of the Rapture being near is when the masses stop looking for it.

1948, Israel restored. The generation that sees that will see the Rapture.

All the required prophecies are fulfilled. It says when it all comes together the time is here, as ITW pointed out.

Being worse as in Black Plague and such is not a requirement. It says the world will be living normal and going about normal life, there will be a falling away from sound doctrine world wide, the Gospel will be known world wide and an extensive list of other requirements. All true now.

So, if a Biblical Generation is 50 years, aren't we a little off?

Mike
And where did I say 50 years?

That is the common Biblical understanding of a Generation... What is your understanding of a generation? Which all this is mute of course, since Christ was talking to the generation alive at that time...

Mike
Post your proof.

Never been the understanding of anyone I have studied with in my 47 years of study.

Generation means all who live within a time frame, regardless of how long they live.

[kay-gee]

What if generation refers to the totality of the human race, not a time frame?

all the best...

[Esoteric]

I dont think so Kay Gee... Biblical scholars have always believed in a 40 year generation... Even Lahyes hero Lindsay originally used this number until it became inconvenient... Many Dispensationalists have moved the date now to 1967 (the date of the 6 days war) so that they have until at least 2067... Now he even claims that "It may however mean those that were alive in 1967 or those alive during some future war in which Israel reclaims the holy land." How is that for keeping your options open?

Mike

[CoreIssue]

I dont think so Kay Gee... Biblical scholars have always believed in a 40 year generation... Even Lahyes hero Lindsay originally used this number until it became inconvenient... Many Dispensationalists have moved the date now to 1967 (the date of the 6 days war) so that they have until at least 2067... Now he even claims that "It may however mean those that were alive in 1967 or those alive during some future war in which Israel reclaims the holy land." How is that for keeping your options open?

Mike
That is false, esoteric.

I began studying these things 47 years ago and generation has always had multiple meanings with the dominate one for a human generation being those within that time frame, not specific time period.

And Lindsey has said those alive in 1948 for as long as I can remember.

So please, don't make profound declarations that are not true.

[CoreIssue]

What if generation refers to the totality of the human race, not a time frame?

all the best...
No. The word always means a specific segment over a specific time.

[Esoteric]

I dont think so Kay Gee... Biblical scholars have always believed in a 40 year generation... Even Lahyes hero Lindsay originally used this number until it became inconvenient... Many Dispensationalists have moved the date now to 1967 (the date of the 6 days war) so that they have until at least 2067... Now he even claims that "It may however mean those that were alive in 1967 or those alive during some future war in which Israel reclaims the holy land." How is that for keeping your options open?

Mike
That is false, esoteric.

I began studying these things 47 years ago and generation has always had multiple meanings with the dominate one for a human generation being those within that time frame, not specific time period.

And Lindsey has said those alive in 1948 for as long as I can remember.

So please, don't make profound declarations that are not true.

Sorry you are correct, even after the 88 reasons the world will end in 1988 debacle Lindsay has stuck to his guns... The he I spoke of with the changing dates is Lahaye... I can see how you could confuse that...

Why do you keep bringing up your age? Havent you ever read Timothy? *smiles*

Mike

[CoreIssue]

Sorry you are correct, even after the 88 reasons the world will end in 1988 debacle Lindsay has stuck to his guns... The he I spoke of with the changing dates is Lahaye... I can see how you could confuse that...
I didn't confuse anything. You stated an error.

More semantical game playing.

Why do you keep bringing up your age? Havent you ever read Timothy? *smiles*
Because you are making time and age relevant statements that I know are false because I lived those times and in decades of study know several of your blanket claims are false.

Such as Arminianism being always rejected.

Any student of Bible history knows better. Such as the Catholic Church has always believed you can loose salvation. No, I am not pro Catholic, just pointing out an obvious historical refutation to one more of your false claims.

I know your posting technique you are using here. It will not work.

Come on, flood with declarations and sound profound and knowledgable.

Let us discuss Calvinism first, before you launch into the rest. Most of us are Secure Arminianist, here. We reject Calvinism.

Since that is a foundational belief in your theology, it is good to discuss first. Since you delcared us unsaved.

[Esoteric]

Sorry you are correct, even after the 88 reasons the world will end in 1988 debacle Lindsay has stuck to his guns... The he I spoke of with the changing dates is Lahaye... I can see how you could confuse that...I didn't confuse anything. You stated an error.

More semantical game playing.

Why do you keep bringing up your age? Havent you ever read Timothy? *smiles*Because you are making time and age relevant statements that I know are false because I lived those times and in decades of study know several of your blanket claims are false.

Such as Arminianism being always rejected.

Any student of Bible history knows better. Such as the Catholic Church has always believed you can loose salvation. No, I am not pro Catholic, just pointing out an obvious historical refutation to one more of your false claims.

I know your posting technique you are using here. It will not work.

Come on, flood with declarations and sound profound and knowledgable.

Let us discuss Calvinism first, before you launch into the rest. Most of us are Secure Arminianist, here. We reject Calvinism.

Since that is a foundational belief in your theology, it is good to discuss first. Since you delcared us unsaved.

Wow, a guy cant even clarify without being attacked... To be exact if you read, I said... Now he even claims that "It may however mean those that were alive in 1967 or those alive during some future war in which Israel reclaims the holy land." How is that for keeping your options open? Now you might have misunderstood who "he" was... But "he" in this case is Lahaye not Lindsey...

But I even admitted that and you still just want to attack me...

I see how you work as well, attempting to use your age and status on this board to bully people... But that doesnt work on me... You also cant sidetrack me... The point of this discussion is not Calvinism, but how long a Biblical Generation is... Where do you get that it is a set of people alive at a certain time from Scripture... I know where the 40 years comes from... If you have truly been studying Scripture as long as you say, it should just out at you too!!

All the best

Mike

[CoreIssue]

Hmmm. You came on attacking us.

Okay, generation.
Strong's Number: 1074 Browse Lexicon (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/browse.cgi?number=1074&version=kjv) Original WordWord Origingeneavfrom (a presumed derivative of) (1085 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1085&version=kjv))Transliterated WordTDNT (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1074&version=kjv#Legend) EntryGenea1:662,114Phonetic SpellingParts of Speechghen-eh-ah' http://bible.crosswalk.com/images/audio.gif (http://bible.crosswalk.com/cgi-bin/lexicon.pl?id=1074g) Noun Feminine Definition
fathered, birth, nativity
that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation
the whole multitude of men living at the same time
an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years
Definition 3 is the only one that applies.

[Esoteric]

Hmmm. You came on attacking us.

Okay, generation.
Strong's Number: 1074 Browse Lexicon (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/browse.cgi?number=1074&version=kjv)Original WordWord Origingeneavfrom (a presumed derivative of) (1085 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1085&version=kjv))Transliterated WordTDNT (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1074&version=kjv#Legend) EntryGenea1:662,114Phonetic SpellingParts of Speechghen-eh-ah' http://bible.crosswalk.com/images/audio.gif (http://bible.crosswalk.com/cgi-bin/lexicon.pl?id=1074g) Noun Feminine Definition
fathered, birth, nativity
that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation
the whole multitude of men living at the same time
an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 yearsDefinition 3 is the only one that applies.

Why?

Mike

[Jessie]

I dont think so Kay Gee... Biblical scholars have always believed in a 40 year generation... Even Lahyes hero Lindsay originally used this number until it became inconvenient... Many Dispensationalists have moved the date now to 1967 (the date of the 6 days war) so that they have until at least 2067... Now he even claims that "It may however mean those that were alive in 1967 or those alive during some future war in which Israel reclaims the holy land." How is that for keeping your options open?

Mike
That is false, esoteric.

I began studying these things 47 years ago and generation has always had multiple meanings with the dominate one for a human generation being those within that time frame, not specific time period.

And Lindsey has said those alive in 1948 for as long as I can remember.

So please, don't make profound declarations that are not true.

Sorry you are correct, even after the 88 reasons the world will end in 1988 debacle Lindsay has stuck to his guns... The he I spoke of with the changing dates is Lahaye... I can see how you could confuse that...

Why do you keep bringing up your age? Havent you ever read Timothy? *smiles*

Mike



quote:
Why do you keep bringing up your age? Havent you ever read Timothy? *smiles*



frankly I dont find you amusing. timothy would'nt act like you have here.

[CoreIssue]

Hmmm. You came on attacking us.

Okay, generation.
Strong's Number: 1074 Browse Lexicon (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/browse.cgi?number=1074&version=kjv)Original WordWord Origingeneavfrom (a presumed derivative of) (1085 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1085&version=kjv))Transliterated WordTDNT (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1074&version=kjv#Legend) EntryGenea1:662,114Phonetic SpellingParts of Speechghen-eh-ah' http://bible.crosswalk.com/images/audio.gif (http://bible.crosswalk.com/cgi-bin/lexicon.pl?id=1074g) Noun Feminine Definition

fathered, birth, nativity
that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation

the whole multitude of men living at the same time
an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 yearsDefinition 3 is the only one that applies.

Why?

Mike
You tell me why any other could possibly apply to the passage context.

[Esoteric]

Hmmm. You came on attacking us.

Okay, generation.
Strong's Number: 1074 Browse Lexicon (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/browse.cgi?number=1074&version=kjv)Original WordWord Origingeneavfrom (a presumed derivative of) (1085 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1085&version=kjv))Transliterated WordTDNT (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1074&version=kjv#Legend) EntryGenea1:662,114Phonetic SpellingParts of Speechghen-eh-ah' http://bible.crosswalk.com/images/audio.gif (http://bible.crosswalk.com/cgi-bin/lexicon.pl?id=1074g) Noun Feminine Definition

fathered, birth, nativity
that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation

the whole multitude of men living at the same time
an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 yearsDefinition 3 is the only one that applies.

Why?

Mike
You tell me why any other could possibly apply to the passage context.

#4 certainly could... :-) Revelations was written in the midsixties and the things it foretells happen in 70AD... That fits the timeline... Christ tells the Jews and the Disciples living at the time of his ministry that they would happen within their generation... Which saw his ascension and rise as judge of apostate Israel (him coming on a cloud), and that clearly happened within 30 years of his prophesy... The only reason you dont like #4 is that it destroys your Eschetology...

Mike

[CoreIssue]

#4 certainly could... :-) Revelations was written in the midsixties and the things it foretells happen in 70AD... That fits the timeline... Christ tells the Jews and the Disciples living at the time of his ministry that they would happen within their generation... Which saw his ascension and rise as judge of apostate Israel (him coming on a cloud), and that clearly happened within 30 years of his prophesy... The only reason you dont like #4 is that it destroys your Eschetology...

Yea, another example of your 'literal' reading.

The verse is about the restoration of Israel, not its destruction.