State of Mchigan

[a.baker]

Here's what is happening in our state.
The Grand Rapids Press Sept. 29, 2007
If Gov. Granholm and lawmakers don't reach an agreement and pass an emergency budget by 12 a.m. Monday, many state funded things will be ordered to shut down. Granholm Friday ordered some 35,000 state workers to stay home on Oct. 1 start of the new fiscal year and detailed for the first time how government operations would be affected by a partial shutdown.
Criticizing lawmakers in both parties for their lack of action, Granholm said in a statement that the Legislatures "failure to act has brought us to this day. They need to act with urgency on a balanced budget and send the bills to my desk."
If that doesn't happen this weekend, most state functions will cease, with few exceptions. Those exceptions include prison operations, psychiatric hospital staffing, state veteran's homes in Marquette and Grand Rapids, drinking water monitoring, critical health laboratory work and minimal Michigan State Police patrols.
Most Department of Human Services offices will remain open with limited staff for child and adult protective services, and to process emergency food, rent and utility payments.
What Granholm said WOULD CEASE until budget agreement is reached :

- Department of Agriculture inspection of food, gas pump accuracy and livestock.
- Michigan Supreme Court and Court of Appeals operations. (except for emergencies)
- All operations by the Michigan Department of Education.( they can wait until Oct.22 for money)
- In- person transactions at local Secretary of State branches and unemployment offices. (can still do it on line or over the phone)
- All Department of Natural Resources operations.
- All road construction and routine maintenance by the Michigan Department of Transportation. Six lift bridges will remain in the up position.

Granholm was immediately criticized for deciding to keep only 237 of the 1,554 Michigan State Police troopers and sergeants.



Something I must add, is our state pays our senators the most out of any state in our country. They have been arguing about this and sitting on it for months now. It still remains in the house.

[kay-gee]

This Granholm...a woman right? I've heard mention of her from time to time.

[CoreIssue]

Michigan is yet another state that is becoming more and more liberal.

Looks good a first, then the pay.

[a.baker]

Yup Jennifer Granholm. Most here don't like her work. But now this thats going on right now is ridiculous and effects everyone here. Its pretty serious. For example our teachers and staff in all public schools may not receive pay for the month of Oct. Our police dept. being cut by 3/4 when it was already not big enough to begin with. Hunting season will open but there will be no one to check the meet for viruses that commonly run in deer; an epidemic kinda. If a human consumes the infected meat even with it being thoroughly cooked they will contract the disease and die. Gas stations could start messing with the pumps and you might be paying for something that you don't get. All of our state parks will close and shut down and campers will have to apply for refunds. Alcohol may stop being sold to the stores and bars, which I am not necessarily upset with that one, but many other people will be outraged from it and it will effect us all. Construction will stop completely which is not a good thing. All asphalt has to be laid by a certain time of year Rebeca's of temperature drops. Not to mention the inconvenience of all these major projects already in progress. The food won't be inspected even food that comes in from some where else won't be inspected. Livestock not being inspected which is a big one too. Huge unbelievable stalls on simple things like trying to renew your plates. And with the courts, what happens with all the criminals? Do they get to sit around and wait? Thats not right especially if they did something really wrong and need to be in prison now. Many state workers which is in the 1,000's will be home with no pay of any. I could go on really. This is just not good and we will know if they pass something or are still arguing by Monday. Thats what the big hold up is, is that they are arguing about where our money goes. Who gets paid and who doesn't. They are arguing about where the cuts will be. In the mean time that is going to put everything on hold with severe consequences. Michigan also has the highest unemployment rate. Detroit has the highest crime rate. I don't know about everyone else's public schools but ours have one teacher for about 30- 35 students. You can imagine how that makes the learning more difficult not to mention they have to share desks and school books. And with things already happening I could go on with that too. Taxes are also looking like they will go up for consumer and state.

[kay-gee]

Boy oh Boy! How can something like that happen in a place that is so rich? It is beyond my belief. Give me the Utopia any day!
all the best...

[CoreIssue]

No such thing as Utopia on earth. That is a fairly tale.

Even the best places are sliding. Each in their own ways.

[kay-gee]

What ever one chooses to call it. We would never live in system that basically allows to government to go broke. Maybe an across the board tax hike is needed.
all the best...

[CoreIssue]

What ever one chooses to call it. We would never live in system that basically allows to government to go broke. Maybe an across the board tax hike is needed.
all the best...
Get over it.

Canada is playing games with its money declarations as well.

Canadian Debt Clock (http://www.ndir.com/SI/education/debt.shtml)

Our biggest problem is illegals and shipping our work out overseas.

Canada has one of the tightest immigrations laws in the West and is protectionist.

We need tighter laws and import protections as well.

Michigan isn't the US as a whole. Other states are running surpluses and are far less liberal. Others are not.

Canada has a more intrusive government than the US.

As I said, there is no Utopia. We could trade comparisons all day.

Some move to islands, South America and such for cheaper living.

Yep, they get it because they brought the money with them. But the natives don't fair as well.

Just look at those retiring to Mexico, Costa Rica and such in example.

And tax increases only strip people of standards of living.

Tax cuts plus spending cuts gives the best economies. But liberals do not get it.

Protecting society also matters, as with Michigan being so hands off on the Muslim issues up there.

No easy answers, KG. And no Utopias.

[Jessie]

What ever one chooses to call it. We would never live in system that basically allows to government to go broke. Maybe an across the board tax hike is needed.
all the best...


we are taxed to death, if they do not manage what they have then how can more help?
it would'nt.

we have more theives in gov than I care to admit.

everything is being re-routed.

[kay-gee]

It ain't cheap living in the Bahamas. That is a fact. How the locals here manage, I have no idea! No income taxes is nice. But the government doesn't do any thing either! Our illegals come from Haiti.
all the best...

[CoreIssue]

It ain't cheap living in the Bahamas. That is a fact. How the locals here manage, I have no idea! No income taxes is nice. But the government doesn't do any thing either! Our illegals come from Haiti.
all the best...
How much crime?

[a.baker]

O.k. an update. As of 9:20 a.m. this morning was that they still did not come to an agreement. We will find out tomorrow. So far nothing has changed since this morning.

[kay-gee]

Crime wise, on this little island we are fortunate. Not much. Everybody practically knows everybody else. Some break-ins now and then. Up in Nassau different story. Lot's of shootings etc... Almost epidemic up there. Drugs as usual.
all the best...

[kay-gee]

That business in Michigan is absolutely tragic. I gotta call my cousin there and ask him what's going on.
all te best...

[a.baker]

Yeah any extra info. your cousin has let me know. I am still waiting to hear what the final word was. As of right now it's said and done I am just waiting to find a report on it some where. One thing about our country in general, many people are unaware of whats going on until something happens or doesn't happen. Sad really more people aren't involved. This is front page stuff. What makes me sick was the other front page story?... all about dresses. Open it up to page two and you see other much more important stories that should of been on the front page as well. For example those tapes found in Nevada. I guess they found the guy and the 2 little girls. Just sick really. People are losing their conscience all over the place. Once I find out whats going to happen with our state I will let you know. My guess is that they will pass emergency money for the month of October and after October we are back to square one. The big controversy too is that if they pass anything they will also have to pass a tax increase which will bring an uproar. So not only are they arguing about how our negative money amount gets spent but they are arguing about a tax increase and how much. Now a consumer tax increase was only suggested but a state increase will happen. The question is, how much? Plus you know all these people are also worried about when it comes time around to vote again on their actions now with a tax increase. So, are they looking at it as to what will the people of the state benefit from, or, what they themselves in the future will benefit from. So many games.

[a.baker]

Here is the update. As of 4:18 a.m. this morning they decided to pass an emergency budget for the month of October. So we are o.k. for October and back to square one at the end of October unless they can vote before than. There will be a 6% sales tax on some services now ,that had no taxes on them before. Our state tax is going to raise I believe 4.35% ( I knows its 4.something for sure). So our state was shut down for about 4hrs. But is back up and running again. I hope they just finish the voting so we know whats going on and can go from there. I don't like this month to month scare of our state shutting down.

[CoreIssue]

That business in Michigan is absolutely tragic. I gotta call my cousin there and ask him what's going on.
all te best...
MIchigan took a major hit due to the auto industry.

Everything moving out of country is bad.

[kay-gee]

Auto industry I know! I used to visit my cousin a lot in Flint Mi. back in 60's and 70's and the place was going great guns. Now like a deserted ghost town. A mere shadow of its former glory. I guess we have to face it...the Japs build better cars and are more market compliant. GM is a lot like Goliath. Not as invincible as first thought! Ford is struggling big time too. Daimler wants to unload Chrysler. Maybe they have. These outfits are nooses around the necks of the good car makers. Same in Canada. The same big three have operations there too. Particularly across the river from Detroit. Downsizing plants left right and centre! I know you hate to hear it, but the 21st century belongs to the Orientals!!!
all the best...

[kay-gee]

a.baker...People have to realize governments need money to provide things! The money only comes through taxation! (also by sale of savings bonds) Folks have to face the inevitability of tax hikes. USA seems to make the mistake of letting population vote on money issues. Of course no will vote for tax increases. Then they wind up with situations like Michigan. In Canada, the politicians who control the parliament make tax decisions for the people. That is why we elect them. Sure there is grumbling and complaining, but we don't go broke! Does Michigan have a state lottery? If so, it needs to use that money. If not, it needs to start one! We turn peoples weakness for gambling into new hospitals and schools. Seems to work!
all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Auto industry I know! I used to visit my cousin a lot in Flint Mi. back in 60's and 70's and the place was going great guns. Now like a deserted ghost town. A mere shadow of its former glory. I guess we have to face it...the Japs build better cars and are more market compliant. GM is a lot like Goliath. Not as invincible as first thought! Ford is struggling big time too. Daimler wants to unload Chrysler. Maybe they have. These outfits are nooses around the necks of the good car makers. Same in Canada. The same big three have operations there too. Particularly across the river from Detroit. Downsizing plants left right and centre! I know you hate to hear it, but the 21st century belongs to the Orientals!!!
all the best...
Chrysler is now US owned again.

'Good car makers?' And that would be exactly who?

I have driven Chrysler/Dodge for years. And they have been great vehicles.

You better take a look at the recall sites. BIG Toyota recall going on right now, in example, which they are trying to weasle out of.

In reality, when you check out the performance reports, most manufacturers rate about the same. There is, in the main, no big differences in reliability anymore.

That is why we go Chrysler. Better performance vehicles for highways. And sure have some models that look better.

[CoreIssue]

a.baker...People have to realize governments need money to provide things! The money only comes through taxation! (also by sale of savings bonds) Folks have to face the inevitability of tax hikes. USA seems to make the mistake of letting population vote on money issues. Of course no will vote for tax increases. Then they wind up with situations like Michigan. In Canada, the politicians who control the parliament make tax decisions for the people. That is why we elect them. Sure there is grumbling and complaining, but we don't go broke! Does Michigan have a state lottery? If so, it needs to use that money. If not, it needs to start one! We turn peoples weakness for gambling into new hospitals and schools. Seems to work!
all the best...
Exactly what USA are you talking about? Congress controls spending. We don't get to vote on spending referendums or taxes.

Yea, hurray Canada. They control your radio, TV, healthcare and a lot of freedoms.

I guess you didn't look at your national debt clock I posted. You are DEEP in debt.

Yea, there are lottos all over the US.

I think we should start dropping the illegals over your border. Then maybe when you guys have to actually start doing your own police work, and paying for it, the smirks and smiles will come off of your faces.

I wish you had a border with Mexico.

By the way, how much foreign aid does Canada give? We give too much and it is killing us.

[kay-gee]

How about Mercedes Benz? BMW, Volvo? Toyota is number 1 all round. American cars have had their share of recalls to and for dangerous stuff. How about Ford Explorers that spontaneous combust and burn? Enjoy the Dodge, their days are numbered!
all the best...

[kay-gee]

Yeah sure we got debt. Who dosent? But we operate balanced budgets and even surpluses now. We have CRTC radio and TV Commission. Are you telling me you don't have an oganization like that in USA? Any body just broadcast what they want? We got free health care, yeah most folks are okay with that! No less Freedoms than you have. So we don't walk around packing heat. So what! We don't need to. We are civilized beyond that. What else? We been good to your people when the draft was on too. Provided safety. Yeah real free. I know you guys vote on money issues. I've seen the TV ads! I am not out of the loop Core. I visit with americans every day here. I know what the word is on the streets.
all the best...

[CoreIssue]

How about Mercedes Benz? BMW, Volvo? Toyota is number 1 all round. American cars have had their share of recalls to and for dangerous stuff. How about Ford Explorers that spontaneous combust and burn? Enjoy the Dodge, their days are numbered!
all the best...
You didn't pay attention. I said they are all just about equal in reliabiltiy ratings. There isn't much gap between them, in the main.

My point is NONE are problem free.

Performance is a whole other issue. Toyota isn't even in the top 10 on performance.

So no, Toyota isn't number 1 all the way around.

It depends on what you are looking for.

Toyota gains its gas mileage at the cost of less tight construction, lighter parts and underpowered engines.

To get the better in those areas you have to go to the Lexus versions of the cars.

Every rating I have every seen says Toyota and Lexus is over priced for what you get. Even with it being a good car, which it is.

If I am were in an accident, I sure would rather be in my Dodge than in a Toyota.

When I had to get a new car we looked at the Camry, Avalon, Lexus and Dodge Charger and 300.

No comparison on ride, features and looks. The Chrysler won hands down and cost less for what we got.

Before you start with prices on the Dodges, we got a deal, for a reason I won't go into that made it cheaper than your Smart Car costs now. :D

[CoreIssue]

Yeah sure we got debt. Who dosent? But we operate balanced budgets and even surpluses now. We have CRTC radio and TV Commission. Are you telling me you don't have an oganization like that in USA? Any body just broadcast what they want? We got free health care, yeah most folks are okay with that! No less Freedoms than you have. So we don't walk around packing heat. So what! We don't need to. We are civilized beyond that. What else? We been good to your people when the draft was on too. Provided safety. Yeah real free. I know you guys vote on money issues. I've seen the TV ads! I am not out of the loop Core. I visit with americans every day here. I know what the word is on the streets.
all the best...
No you don't.

Canada conveniently doesn't include the cost of things like pensions and such when computing the final balance, so it shows a surplus when their isn't one.

Your clock is ticking up, not down.

Like them computing employment in the US.

The conveniently don't include those who work even an hour in a week or have run out of unemployment benefits.

Called fudging the numbers.

Get off the gun issue. Totally different.

And you were NOT our friends by taking in draft dodgers. Don't even start with me on that one. I am a Nam Era Vet and I dispise what Cananda did then.

You aided and abetted criminals. Plain and simple.

And no, we don't have public airways controls that ban views that do not agree with the government from the airway. We allow liberals, conservatives, government opposition, all kinds of religions and such on the air. Cananda does not.

Health care we have already covered. Most folks are not liking the long waits, the unavailable services and such. Stats show people are dying due to your great system because they have appointments too distant future to get any help in time. Many cross the borders to get it in the US.

As I said, we already went rounds on this one. No point in doing it again.

And the arrogant Canadian attitude they are more civilized. Bunk!

And you have not seen any ads about us voting on tax or other money issues on a federal level. You may have seen opinion poll voting, but not actually voting on the measures. The Senate controls most of the money spending. The House controls some as well.

[InTheWind]

You aided and abetted criminals. Plain and simple.



Yep i agree there, round them up and put them in front of a firing squad, that`s what they are cowardly deserters. :(

[a.baker]

Nope no grumbling here for tax raise. Yup the big problem we have is all these companies not just car but many many others too going across seas or just in general leaving MI. Heres the scoop. Plants closing here and relocating some where else. More than just a down size. Try 1000's of people losing their jobs completely. So there go those taxes. O.k. so the people out of work now sell their homes and move out of state. Bye to those state taxes and consumer taxes. Many companies are leaving or closing due to the economy. So more tax dollars gone. Jobs are far and few between. More people than job openings which also makes others leave our state and poverty set in. So many foreigners come here and get jobs and many state funded programs. More people in poverty equals more people using state programs. So it's a big mix of many things. It is crumbling no doubt. It's happening every where I think but MI. is being hit extra hard because of what we used to rely on to support us is gone and now our state needs to support more people in poverty. It's hard for people to understand the unemployment in MI. unless you are here looking for work. Nothing to argue over it's all plain and laid out. Its like one big thing goes down it eventually all trickles down. And yes we have a negative balance in our state. More bills than money that is a fact.

[kay-gee]

Oh my gosh ITW I hope and pray that I don't understand Correctly what you said in that last post! Concerned friend!
all the best...

[Jessie]

Oh my gosh ITW I hope and pray that I don't understand Correctly what you said in that last post! Concerned friend!
all the best...


why do you say that? have you ever contemplated what these men went thru while the cowards ran to canada?

you understand clearly.

[InTheWind]

Oh my gosh ITW I hope and pray that I don't understand Correctly what you said in that last post! Concerned friend!
all the best...

I seen a beer add on another forum made in San Fran where there were naked gay men sitting at a table representing the last supper.
I replied to that post saying---- But my belief is hate the sin love the sinner, i will be praying they see the sinful way they are acting and repent and ask for forgiveness just before they slide in the ocean.

[kay-gee]

But ITW, I hold you in high regards as a thoughtful man and a gentle spirit. To suggest what you did concerning the conscientious objectors of Vietnam, is down right frightening! The epitome of evil in its implication. I am completely shocked! I have known of one of "those" who came to Canada and became a very successful entrepreneur, a pioneer in the natural food industry and huge asset to our society. As for the guys in LA, sometimes I think those thoughts too, but yongue in cheekly!
all the best...

[InTheWind]

Nope, i`m not a feel goody Christian and either is God IMO.
Draft dodgers are cowards that deserted and if they were in combat would of deserted there comrades and maybe got someone killed.
If they would of not punished deserters in the wars then more would of done it.
Nope no sympathy from me, i pray they realize their mistake and repent and turn themselves in and take their punishment.

[InTheWind]

Let me put it another way.
Love God and country, and be prepared too die for either. :nod:

[Jessie]

Let me put it another way.
Love God and country, and be prepared too die for either. :nod:


KG this is the kindof man that has intergrity, compassion and genuine love.

not the other.

maybe the other guy did do well in business, but I highly doubt unless he has repented and accepted Jesus, that he is a honest upright man today.

[CoreIssue]

KG, you and your thinking never understood that individual refusing to serve hurts everyone in the country.

Do you actually think you saved someone from having to go? Someone else went in their place.

If that someone else died the one who deserted was responsible. Cowards allow others to assume the risk in their place.

There is nothing unbiblical about this. Nothing.

Service was required in OT Israel, not requested, in example.

Did God sin when he commanded Israel to fight? To Kill?

Let us see how you feel about it if it ever required Canada to fight. Would you support those who ran away and caused someone else to go in their place, and then, when over, wanted to come home as if nothing happened?

They were cowards and traitors. They could have served in non-combat roles, as Quakers did.

No. They ran because THEY might get hurt. No other reason.

[Jessie]

you answered another question I had...

was wondering about the folks who just dont have the nerves for war and would be a liability on the field because of it.

[kay-gee]

They are called conscientious objectors!

[kay-gee]

We had conscription in the great wars! In those days men lied about their age just to get in. Those were wars with world wide consequences for civilation as we know it. What was Vietnam all about?
all the best...

[InTheWind]

Doesn`t matter what the war was about, if everyone decided they won`t fight because they don`t agree it would be a useless army.
I hope you never find yourself in a life threatening situation where the person beside you was your only hope and he runs.:(

[CoreIssue]

They are called conscientious objectors!
I note you dodged my points.

Cowards who put others in their place.

Quakers were objectors. The still served but without guns.

So easy for these cowards to act so high and might in a country that protects them. Hiding behind others.

[kay-gee]

Before dumping on my country, your own president (Ford) extended amnesty.
all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Before dumping on my country, your own president (Ford) extended amnesty.
all the best...
And he caught a ton of flack for it.

Sorry, but you said Canada was being nice to us by taking care of our traitors. I was addressing that.

Also, technically the US deficit is going down as well. So our government can play the numbers games as well.

Yeesh! You shoveled first. Don't get mad if the wind throws some back at you. ;)

[kay-gee]

I aint mad
all the best...

[Jessie]

can someone help me find that verse I think it was paul talking about our liberty in the days we worship and not to be judged by others respecting that!

[CoreIssue]

can someone help me find that verse I think it was paul talking about our liberty in the days we worship and not to be judged by others respecting that!

Col 2
13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature,[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=col%202&version=31#fen-NIV-29492b)] God made you[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=col%202&version=31#fen-NIV-29492c)] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=col%202&version=31#fen-NIV-29494d)]
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

All Holy Days are complete in Christ.

[Jessie]

can someone help me find that verse I think it was paul talking about our liberty in the days we worship and not to be judged by others respecting that!

Col 2
13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature,[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=col%202&version=31#fen-NIV-29492b)] God made you[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=col%202&version=31#fen-NIV-29492c)] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=col%202&version=31#fen-NIV-29494d)]
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

All Holy Days are complete in Christ.


thats the one thank you!! I could'nt find it.

[kay-gee]

What is so liberal about the State of Michigan? Many deer hunting rednecks!
all the best...

[CoreIssue]

What is so liberal about the State of Michigan? Many deer hunting rednecks!
all the best...
Well, if you don't know, already, then you are qualified to be making comments about them or us, are you?

[kay-gee]

Surely you cant be that humourless. No one can.
all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Surely you cant be that humourless. No one can.
all the best...
Well, I don't think you will find any long termers here that say I don't have a prankster side.

But I don't do it as part of serious subjects where supposed humorous comments come across as serious.

But then again, Canadian humor is strange at times. Not like there are a lot of Red Green's around Canada. The man appreciated Duct Tape. :nod:

[kay-gee]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha Gotcha!!!!

[CoreIssue]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha Gotcha!!!!
:scratch: :catfight: