selling idols?

[roman8]

I am struggling with certain areas of our bussiness and my work .

My husband is an antique dealer and now a believer, there are certain items that I dont think we should sell any longer . He sells alot of Masons and Oddfellows stuff , also alot of oriental stuff . Im not sure what we should do with them ? I could use some advice on this.

Also , I am a goldsmith by trade and am required to make certain things for people . I didnt think to much about this before but a woman wants an " order of the universe " pendant made, fortunatly I do not have to make this one , but it really got me thinking . What should I and shouldnt I do?

[a.baker]

There is a story in the bible that matches this situation let me see if I can find it. It was a couple of days ago I remember reading it. let me see...

[a.baker]

It might help you might not...
Acts 19:23-27
Other than that I don't know. This may be a good question for someone else to answer that has more wisdom than I. I hope this helps a little...or maybe it doesn't match your situation.

[roman8]

Thanks , AB,:hmm: that is interesting.

[CoreIssue]

I grew up in the antique trade.

There are Mason and such collectors who see it as a collectible, not an idol or any other such thing. Just a collectible.

Some do take it more seriously.

Also remember Christian researchers and archaeologist collect idols. Not to worship for the scholastics.

There are many reasons to not get upset about it.

Making one for such purposes, though, is a whole other issue. I could not do it.

The idol maker is not comparible to colecting. He made idols deliberately for worship. That was his trade.

So, it does not compare exactly to being a jewler, whose career is not idol making.

It boils down to circumstances and knowing when the purpose is idol worship choosing to do it or not, while not requiring one to give up their career, otherwise.

[roman8]

My husband is more of your mind Core , he feels it is all apart of history , and should not be looked at any other way. On the other hand I was not so sure , felt as though we are contrubiting to idol worship, but you are right , that is not why people are buying them.

As far as my job goes , I think I will have to turn down any work that I think will be for that purpose.

[CoreIssue]

My husband is more of your mind Core , he feels it is all apart of history , and should not be looked at any other way. On the other hand I was not so sure , felt as though we are contrubiting to idol worship, but you are right , that is not why people are buying them.

As far as my job goes , I think I will have to turn down any work that I think will be for that purpose.
Does it hurt or help Bible proofs and study to destroy or preserve them for study and as evidence against those who want to deny Biblical accuracy?

[roman8]

understood, point taken. they need to be preserved.

Thanks for your input, I am seeing things from a different perspective.

[kay-gee]

Gold is inanimate. A substance. You personally know the true Living God. You fully understand that an object made of gold has no power, supernatural or otherwise. There should be no problem really. You are simply an artisan fashioning gold into shapes for the enjoyment of others. Its a lot like the issue of meat in Romans. However, if your conscience has been violated by it then you have to take another look at it.
all the best...

[kay-gee]

Antique selling is a totaling non-threatening, non-immoral business. You are selling mere objects to people who derive pleasure from owning them. Harmless in every respect. I would be speaking much differently to you if you guys were running a bar or something. Selling something that destroys lives, tears families apart etc...
all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Gold is inanimate. A substance. You personally know the true Living God. You fully understand that an object made of gold has no power, supernatural or otherwise. There should be no problem really. You are simply an artisan fashioning gold into shapes for the enjoyment of others. Its a lot like the issue of meat in Romans. However, if your conscience has been violated by it then you have to take another look at it.
all the best...
Making an image as a god violates a Commandment.

If you make an image as a god, for you or someone else, you are knowingly creating an idol, a god.

[kay-gee]

I never would have believed that people in this day and age would actually make worship of idols. I got an education back in Toronto. I worked with some Sri Lankan fellows who took me to their homes and showed me these shrines they set up in the house like linen closets and such. There would be these little figurines in there resembling elephants and multi armed people etc. There was a small dish of liquid oil for burning and matches in there. I left with the awful fear that someday there would be a tragic accident...
all the best...

[kay-gee]

I don't think that little trinkets that people wear as jewellery counts as idols!
all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Think again.

Idols do not have to be big.

Buddha, Mary, Saints, Shinto Shrines and such are all idols.

[John Beckett]

`

Good point, Core. And what about the little trinkets
and such that ppl wear around their necks as so-called
"good-luck charms" ??

BLAH! :ick:

[kay-gee]

But if I understand roman8's trade correctly, she is in the "Bling" business. necklaces. wedding rings, that sort of thing. No harm in that.
all the best...

[CoreIssue]

But if I understand roman8's trade correctly, she is in the "Bling" business. necklaces. wedding rings, that sort of thing. No harm in that.
all the best...
Let her answer on that one.

[CoreIssue]

`

Good point, Core. And what about the little trinkets
and such that ppl wear around their necks as so-called
"good-luck charms" ??

BLAH! :ick:
The original meaning was talismans and charms to ward off evil and bring luck.

But, then again, men's ties began as good talismans, which many people don't know.

[roman8]

But if I understand roman8's trade correctly, she is in the "Bling" business. necklaces. wedding rings, that sort of thing. No harm in that.
all the best...


you are right kay-gee it is, for the most part the above mentioned. My concern is with the other stuff . Like the women who wanted an "order of the universe" pend , each shape means something , not sure what , but I think she thinks they bring some sort of power. I was not required to make that particular item but its what really started me thinking.

There are alot of people who wear the "saints" they honestly belive it will protect them.

Jewellery is a strange thing, I have cut wedding rings off people who had not taken them off in years , and cried, as if it was what was holding there marriage together. Or some mother whos son became a police officer of firefighter and needs a ST Micheal pend for him for protection . there are numerous stories like this .

People will kiss it and hold it and cherish it , like they neeed it , not just an item that brings memories for them of an event or lost friend or relative . I didnt think alot about this before , but it is really sad

[CoreIssue]

Got to make one comment here, on the wedding ring.

It isn't anything sacred or any such thing. But it is the ring my wife gave me to at the very start of our marriage.

I have worn it for 35 years.

You better believe it would bother me to loose or damage it.

We know our rings are symbols. But they are symbols of a union that is beyond words.

She gave it to me. That makes irreplacable.

[a.baker]

I also think of a wedding ring as unity but I look at it as more of a public display to others. Mine is sentimental to me even though is damaged a little and missing diamonds. I don't think I would ever get a new one it just wouldn't be the same. Yes Jewelry can hold a lot of sentimental value and some do use it for good luck charms or in some cases for weird religious things. Maybe thats why God talks of idols and pearls and gold so much. Yes a lot of the scripture goes beyond the simple talking of gold and jewels but it does hold a strong resemblance of many other things. Like don't throw away things to people who will ripped it apart like wolves. Or don't worry about treasures on earth. Or how Heaven will be of gold the true treasure. Ect... I think God also wants us to see how these materials can really turn evil and destroy a person if one lets it. Its like God sees our grip on materials so much to a certain extent he doesn't even want anything at all to be made of an image of Him. He talks of how jealous He is and He has every right to be. He even than says to not worry about our needs because they will be met. Its like He has materials covered all over the place the way it should be so we can focus and concentrate on Him only. Everything about God and His Word is perfect!

[CoreIssue]

But remember, God gives us adornments.

Crowns are rewards. They do adorn.

And God says of Israel, wife of God, he adorns here with jewelry, including nose rings, even.

He created Satan adorned with jewels in his body.

Like guns, it is an issue of how seen and used. In and of itself, jewelry is not evil.

[kay-gee]

As for me, I am a zero jewellery guy. Not even a watch. I told my wife I would buy her a band for our 5th anniversary. Sorry roman8, I would be a poor customer. ha ha
We have a woman in our congregation who also is a goldsmith/jeweller. I should ask her for her take on these things. Bling is huge here, in this culture. It seems to me that Bling and shiny chrome tire rims are a way of saying that you're making it.
all the best...

[a.baker]

I agree Core jewelry or any thing worth money is not evil but it can easily consume people just like many other things. It all depends on how you use it. Some women for example have to have the huge diamond ring; they won't be satisfied with any old wedding band ( an example). If I were a man and I purposed to a woman and she was unsatisfied because of the size of the diamond I would be hurt and I would probably change my mind about marriage with the woman and break the relationship. Some people really get into debt with bling bling and its sad to see how it consumes them. But in general jewelry or money is not a bad thing it depends on the persons intentions. I agree. I also agree with you Kaygee on the rims; same idea its all these materials mostly to impress. My old friend had his grandparents die recently in a house fire and he inherited like $15,000 and spent it all on items like rims and such. I thought how foolish and disrespectful to his grandparents! I would of used it to help pay for school or a down payment on a house or something. He is also one of those guys that primps himself like a girl and always has to stare into the mirror and tell me how God is not real and such and get heated even when His name is mentioned. Now my husband just called me and told me he was in jail for a D.U.I. last night and its fancy ride is impounded and he needed mom and dad to bail him out. I am sorry but again how foolish are peoples ways at times. I hope they throw the book at him for drinking and driving. Sorry guys but that is something that gets to me with alcohol, you hear too many sad sad stories. I also apologize about ranting about my old friend who is the drummer for my husbands band, but I just wanted to paint a picture of materialistic people that have no grip on reality.

[kay-gee]

Terrible news. What is going to happen to the band now? I think jewellery is fine, I just don't wear it myself. Too much electricity in my body or something. I've never had a watch that kept time more than a few weeks. Even a couple of relatively expensive ones. I once had a wedding ring several years ago and almost lost a finger because of it. So I just decided to go metal-less! I think it looks nice on ladies but I really gotta wonder about guys that obsess over it!

all the best...

[a.baker]

People that always look into the mirror are obsessed with themselves and love them selves and are usually very selfish self involved people. With the band I am sure they will just practice without him. Nothing ever seems to give with them guys. I also don't know if anyone will learn a lesson from this only time will tell. I am glad that my husband is much different than the rest of the band when it comes to thinking about consequences for actions, well for the most part. He is a very good father and husband. I used to not wear jewelry at all but I wanted to and it took some time to get used to it. At first when I wore my watch all I heard was the ticking! But eventually I didn't notice it any more. But I have to remember its a watch that can't get wet. But now I have a hard time not knowing what time it is. About the only thing I constantly wear is my earrings. I just got them repierced about a month and a half ago and so I have to keep them in so they don't reclose.

[kay-gee]

I bet the other fellows are single. That makes a huge difference in the way a guy handles himself. A spouse and child bring responsibilities in that are foreign to singles. It has been a huge adjustment for me just having a wife. I'm not selfish or anything but if you've done things on your own and for yourself for a lot of years you develop habits.
all te best...

[CoreIssue]

Well, we are not into jewelry either.

My wife inherited some significant pieces and does not wear them. She wears her more simple earrings, wedding ring and watch, an old nice looking one.

I wear my watch, probably 25 years old now and my ring of 35 years. That is it.

[kay-gee]

It's a real pain going around not knowing the time. Before I left Canada, I bought a small travel alarm clock. The kind that folds like a little make-up case. Been carrying it in my pants pocket. Seems to still be running. Didn't miss any planes any way. ha ha.
all the best...

[a.baker]

Yup I don't know why not knowing the time before never bothered me until I started wearing a watch and than forget it one day. Core I just like to be simple too I suppose. Its less time consuming and than I worry less. Maybe thats why I only spend five minutes on my hair. Ha Ha Ha. Kaygee only one of those guys is single out of the 5 guys. The one that primps is one of those guys that has the same girlfriend on and off for awhile now and he always looks at those sexual magazines and things on T.V. in that nature. He always has to make comments too. He is a real jerk too. You owe him 14 cents you better pay him back the 14 cents and I am not exaggerating. His girlfriend is all about her looks and materials too. I guess he is so worried about girls and impressing them and than falls in love with himself. I have noticed the more expensive jewelry and clothes and time a person spends time on themselves the more they turn cold and selfish and kinda bratty in a way. Good example if you mess up their food order that act appalled. They think people need to kiss the ground they walk on. I am not saying that all who wear nice things are like this I am just saying many I have personally met and are like this act out like this.

[a.baker]

One more thing what is up with dwarf statues in peoples yard. I think thats what they are called. Some people look at those as warding off evil or something.

[roman8]

Got to make one comment here, on the wedding ring.

It isn't anything sacred or any such thing. But it is the ring my wife gave me to at the very start of our marriage.

I have worn it for 35 years.

You better believe it would bother me to loose or damage it.

We know our rings are symbols. But they are symbols of a union that is beyond words.

She gave it to me. That makes irreplacable.


I am aware of how sentimental certain pieces may be , I have some passed to me from my Grandmother they mean a great deal to me.

But certain folks , and Im not sure if it is a religous thing or what but , in order to size a ring properly it must be cut and a piece added , now wedding bands (Plain) are generaly made seamless casted as one piece ( it is a selling feature for some ) they do not want it cut for any reason, considered bad luck . That to me is putting some kind of supernatural power in the wedding band as far as holding the marriage together.

there are certain pieces I own that I like, I enjoy wearing, or may hold some memories for me , but that is as far as it goes with me , maybe its because I have been in the bussiness for going on 20 years .

[a.baker]

Roman8 I agree with you on the cut wedding band thing.

[a.baker]

I do apologize they aren't dwarfs they are garden gnomes I had to ask someone. I very much do apologize. I knew what I said wasn't right I just didn't know what else they were called; I should of waited to post.

[kay-gee]

Strictly decorative a.baker. Just out of curiosity, what are you gonna do for Halloween. Are you going to participate in that with your daughter?
all the best...

[roman8]

Strictly decorative a.baker. Just out of curiosity, what are you gonna do for Halloween. Are you going to participate in that with your daughter?
all the best...

I have a freind who gives out candy canes at Halloween, she ties to them a history of the candy cane.

the shape is to represent Jesus or a shepards staff, the candy is hard like a "Rock", the 3 small stripes represent the stripes Jesus recieved and the wide stripe is for the blood of Christ, the white is the purity of Jesus .

It varies a little , but its said that a candy maker from Indiana started it .

I for one think its a great way to particapate in halloween, and the kids come back every year to get one.

[a.baker]

ITW thats neat! And Kaygee yes I will take her trick or treating. This year she want to be a butterfly. Lats year she was a handyman. I always put her costumes together for her. Two years before that she was a mummy. The thing I have a big problem with is Santa Clause. Everyone is against me on that one and I think Santa is a big dumb silly lie and nothing more. Every single Christian around me also says I am mean for telling my daughter its just a guy in a costume. How is that mean its the truth and what does she not get out of Christmas that other kids get? I never believed in Santa and I turned out fine and didn't miss out on anything. Why are Christians so accepting of the Santa story and character? I think its very wrong! Take the letter n and put it at the end and it spells Satan.

[kay-gee]

Now that's interesting. You think someone putting cement gnomes in their yard is following some paganistic ritual but it is fine to participate in a holiday with its roots in occultic worship and black magic? Santa seems harmless by comparison. Did you know that the popular image of Santa Claus was actually invented by the Coca-Cola company in the 1920's? Some food for thought.
all the best...

[Jessie]

I think for most folks the gnomes are nothing more than decoration.

now if they thought they had some kindof mystical power then it would be wrong.

[Jessie]

we are given liberty....

there is nothing we can do about so called roots.

some have liberty some dont.

[kay-gee]

Jessie, Aren't we to avoid even the appearance of evil?
all the best...

[cbressler1976]

I take my boys trick or treating....Austin loves it!! and I loved it too when I was a kid...I just don't have the heart to tell him that he can't go......fall festivals are great!! they have them at a lot of churces...

[kay-gee]

I'm not that much of a stickler about it. I don't see the harm in tick or treating and those things. I am trying to point out though, how funny it is that we can justify one thing and vilify something else that has the same principle. It is an area where all Christians need to be more careful. I vilify the thing you do that that you're OK with and I justify the thing I do that you question. The principle is no different for the Masons etc... and Halloween. There may have been some sinister origins, but have evolved over the centuries to be harmless fun. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander as the saying goes!
allthe best...

[kay-gee]

Speaking of that...roman8...You are a true artist. a skilled tradesmans in what you do and you have done it a long time. I don't think you have feel awkward about what you do for a living. There are many more things that I could question about what people do, than being a goldsmith! (We have one in our little congregation here too) We have people that deal cards at the casino for a living!, for crying out loud.
all the best...

[a.baker]

Kaygee I don't mind Halloween I don't see anything wrong with it. Its just a holiday to get dressed up and get candy so I agree with you on that. Halloween is not religious in any way or evil. For Christmas I just can't imagine that God would appreciate it if I had my daughter focus on Santa and gifts at Christmas instead of Jesus. I would assume that would make Him cry. I see nothing wrong with Christmas lights or a tree or stockings or gifts but I do with Santa because children are so easily consumed with the idea of a fairy tale and receiving presents. One thing with children is they have a hard time focusing, especially if presents are always talked about. Nothing wrong with presents but I feel that should not be the focus and thats all Santa brings and focuses on is presents nothing more. Many think I am a scrooge for that but I just imagine God crying if I get my daughter excited about Santa. It takes His glory away I feel. I could be wrong but it feels so right. Nothing about my opinion about Santa feels wrong. My daughter still receives gifts and still has a blast but she can focus more on Jesus than Santa. Same with the Easter bunny. She finds eggs and eats them on Easter and gets candy but I tell her about Jesus not the Easter commercialized bunny. I feel again it takes away the focus. Its just my first and fore most important job of being a mother is teaching her about Jesus. I want God to be pleased with the responsibilities He gives me. I want to make sure I do my very best job that I can. I always fall short because I am full of sin but I try.

[Jessie]

with gnomes? I dont know how thats evil.....
with christmas, I dont like lying to kids. its fun to have imagination,
but better to be honest. dont know Christmas would be an apperence of evil either...

yep we are to avoid the apperence of evil...

[cbressler1976]

a.baker....halloween's origions come from the druids...pagans...so at first it was a pagan holiday....

About 2,000 years ago in the area of the world that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom, and northern France, lived a group of people called the Celts. The Celts' lives revolved around growing their food, and considered the end of the year to be the end of the harvest season. So, they celebrated new year's eve each year on October 31st with a festival called "Samhain," named after their Lord of the Dead (also known as the Lord of Darkness). Samhain (pronounced 'sow-in') was presided over by Celtic priests called Druids.

[BereanGal]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't do anything on Halloween, my kids are young and they don't participate but they're too young to realize anything yet. I don't celebrate Christmas or Easter either.

If anyone here has heard of Jeremiah Films, they do a good presentation, with scripture, as to the history of Christmas and Halloween, and what scripture has to say about it.

I think the Christmas one is called "The Unwrapping of Christmas" and I can't remember what the Halloween one was. But they have a website if anyone is interested.

www.jeremiahfilms.com (http://www.jeremiahfilms.com)

[CoreIssue]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't do anything on Halloween, my kids are young and they don't participate but they're too young to realize anything yet. I don't celebrate Christmas or Easter either.

If anyone here has heard of Jeremiah Films, they do a good presentation, with scripture, as to the history of Christmas and Halloween, and what scripture has to say about it.

I think the Christmas one is called "The Unwrapping of Christmas" and I can't remember what the Halloween one was. But they have a website if anyone is interested.

www.jeremiahfilms.com (http://www.jeremiahfilms.com)
We don't celebrate Halloween.

We don't celebrate Easter and Christmas as Christian holidays. Both are pagan celebrations the RCC brought into Christianity.

But I don't fault those who do.

[cbressler1976]

You know...I never thought Christmas and Easter as being pagan....I always thought it as Christ's birth and his resurrection...that's odd....I guess I will look into that....we even celebrated it at a baptist church....

[kay-gee]

In a way, the essence of the Easter event is to be celebrated every Lords day in the partaking of the fruit of the vine and the bread. The Lords supper is the only Christian celebration taught in NT. Everything else has come down to us through paganism.
all the best...

[a.baker]

Very interesting guys. Now I am confused on what God would want to see. Every Church I know of celebrates these things except Halloween. I suppose I am confused on what to do for these days. I have a hard enough time defending my idea of Santa to Christians when it comes to my daughter. I can't imagine trying to explain or defend anything more. No question of a doubt I would do what God would want me to do in a heart beat but also how does that work with everyone surrounding you including the father of your child who is a nonbeliever which makes it even rougher. What are we to do as Christians? How do we defend the idea of this to other Christians when they hurl comments at us who feel a certain way about these so called holidays? So many would say I am wrong. Why would a Christian care or get offended in a way if I chose to not let my daughter celebrate Halloween or sit on Santa's lap and lie to her about Christmas? What are we to do at Christmas with family expecting gifts. What are we to do with family that has children who freak out about gifts or Christians who freak out about gifts. Personally I don't want any it's insignificant. All you hear at Christmas is What did you get for so and so or how much did you spend. This burns me with anger. Everyone I know of is so worried about it. I had my nieces before see I brought no presents one year because I was super strapped on cash and it made them upset that they were not getting presents from me. Its all turned into a greedy selfish commercialized holiday. And most Christians seem to buy into it. Back to Halloween if I chose to not participate boy would that burn my husband who is all about our daughter and a nonbeliever. How would you deal with it if your child goes to a public school and they want to celebrate Halloween at school or talk about Santa. I would hate at the same time making my child feel like an outcast towards her friends or what to her would seem like all the other kids. Its all over on t.v. for at least a month before and in the stores, you can't avoid it. What do you do as a mother? I think she would be very sad. Now Santa she knows thats a guy in a costume and the stories are not real. Also if you have different ideas on this than your spouse than that can bring lingering problems for a very very long time.

[kay-gee]

a.baker! We are not suggesting that you not do Christmas or Halloween. To drop out would deprive your child of the happiness associated with these events. Just be conscious of the facts and firmly decide where you are going to draw the line. Halloween is basically a holiday in Satan's honour. Have you ever seen kids dressed up like little devils with red suit and plastic pitch fork? Look at all the witches and monsters etc...It's Satan's way of saying that this is all unreal and kinda funny. He doesnt want people to think He is real and working to lead souls to eternal damnation. After all it's cute, right? It's all about the kids! Doesn't it seem funny that in the public schools, it is practically illegal to say Jesus name or have any celebration of the Christian tradition, yet Halloween is still celebrated. Think about it. Dress the girl up as a butterfly and walk around the block collecting candy, but explain to her the best you can, what the real deal is with Halloween. Have your husband accompany you.
Now Christmas is a tough one. There is not one bit of instruction in the NT testament (or example) for us to celebrate the birth of Christ. Jesus himself instituted the Lords Supper, which is a commemoration of his death and resurrection. He said "Do this in remembrance of me". Never once Does He say to give Him a birthday party. No mention of the apostles honouring any day special. In fact the Bible doesnt even give a day, time of year, or anything really. The word CHRISTMAS itself is a RCC invention. It comes from CHRIST MASS meaning mass of Christ. December 25 was already a pagan holiday. As Christianity became a little more fashionable under the Roman system they just attached the supposed birth of Christ. RCC is big on holidays. Celebrations for everything! Down through the ages all kinds of traditions of pagan origins have been added, to make it palatable to all cultures. Much folklore too. (where does the Bible say there was "3" wise men?) Any way it has come all the way down to us today as the Heathen celebration of Heathen celebrations. The materialism, the greed, the drunkenness, so on and so on. Notice how some of the biggest Christmas partakers are folks that couldn't give God or Jesus the time of day any other time! I personally believe Christmas breaks The Lords heart. In a very real way it is the using of His name in vain. Attaching Jesus name to what is nothing more than a huge commercial celebration for merchants. What did Jesus do in the temple with the merchants and money changers?
Now having said all that, celebrate Christmas at home if you wish. Celebrate it for what it is though. A man made festival. A time for sharing and for joy and family fellowship. It is one of the only times people drop their grudges and get together. In that sense, it is good. The world needs more of that. As believers, we can have joy every day!!! Our church does not have any Christmas celebrations at all. We have no authority from the NT to do so, however as individuals we can do whatever we wish on Dec. 25. I realize this is long winded post, but I wanted to help you see what is what. Don't let this issue eat you up.
all the best...

[CoreIssue]

We always dealt with Halloween, Easter and Christmas as secular holidays.

I see no harm in that.

[Jessie]

what do you mean?

I see nothing wrong with christmas and easter we realize where it had its beginnings, do we worship the christmas tree? nope, it we did thats where it would be wrong. and connecting easter egg hunting to christianity is'nt wise either.
but I dont think its a big deal for kids to enjoy.

I always enjoyed halloween as a kid. things were different then though.
and its not good to be dressed as a witch. (or whatnot) its the seeds that get planted from it.
kids that dress up as a butterfly are not interested in the true halloween.

christmas is hard when you have no money and people do get miffed when they give you something and you cant give back. when people freak out about gifts tell them the truth. I dont like how people have gotten so thoughtless to one another in this.
some can give not all can.
my grandma would never send a christmas card to someone who did'nt send her one.
to me thats just plain thoughtless. there can be many reasons they dont send ya one. sometimes one should stop but hey, look at the other side.

I'd try to explain to your dh that halloween is all about dead stuff.
and really if you think about it thats the stuff of horror movies.
and playing in it plants seeds. and you dont want her innocence to be comprimised!
we adults play games with it, but for children their take is different.
a bit like grooming a person for that kindof life.

[kay-gee]

Is Thanksgiving still allowed in American schools? It has pretty deep religious connotations. Have they turned the turkey into an object of worship?
all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Is Thanksgiving still allowed in American schools? It has pretty deep religious connotations. Have they turned the turkey into an object of worship?
all the best...
I believe it is more of rewriting history to change the facts behind it. Not disallowing it.

Plus, don't get the idea there is one monolithic school system. There isn't.

Each county runs its own with some legal input from the state and some from the Feds.

[a.baker]

Thank x everyone for your input. Its a big responsibility having a child placed in my hands to help protect and guide. I just don't want to do anything God would be very sad or mad about. She is so young now and vulnerable. I need God to teach and show me so I can teach and show her. I know I cannot be perfect; its impossible; but I don't want to make any serious mistake with God either. This is really His child not mine.

[BereanGal]

The only reason why my husband and I don't celebrate the pagan holidays is because we believe it's a form of syncretism, which is basically taking pagan traditions and using them in the worship and celebration of the one true God. For example, when the Israelites made the golden calf, they didn't say "oh we worship you golden calf." They actually worshipped it as if it was really the true God YHWH.

But an even more obvious case of syncretism is in 2 Kings 17:33 which reads:

They worshiped the LORD, but they also served their own gods in accordance with the customs of the nations from which they had been brought.

This is one verse that speaks to me personally about Christmas and Easter. My kids are only 1 1/2 and 2 1/2, so they don't really have understanding about such things yet.

[BereanGal]

I posted here so I can subscribe to the thread, I didn't know any other way to do it other than posting this here.

[a.baker]

Why is that ever since I was a little kid all Christians I have ever known have celebrated these holidays as religious? I only knew two that didn't and they were into a very weird doctrine to where they didn't cut their hair and girls always had to wear dresses. They also wouldn't celebrate their own birthdays. Where in the bible does it say we can't celebrate our birthdays? Is that pagan too?

[CoreIssue]

Look under Thread Tools in the link bar at the top.

[BereanGal]

Why is that ever since I was a little kid all Christians I have ever known have celebrated these holidays as religious? I only knew two that didn't and they were into a very weird doctrine to where they didn't cut their hair and girls always had to wear dresses. They also wouldn't celebrate their own birthdays. Where in the bible does it say we can't celebrate our birthdays? Is that pagan too?

If you go back in history to the first days of America the christians never celebrated Easter and Christmas. It all started with the poem created by a pastor "Twas the night before christmas..." He did it anonymously so he wouldn't lose his pastor position, because no one celebrated christmas at that time. But when it became popular he spoke up so he could cash in on his little poem/story. That's when christmas began in this country.

The bible doesn't say anything about birthdays, but we know from history that the pagans celebrate their birthdays, along with gentile kings and such. I don't think the Israelites celebrated them.

[kay-gee]

King Herod had a birthday party. It led to sensuality. The sensuality led to murder!
all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Most Christians do not know Christ was probably born around the beginning of September.

Easter came from the Ishtar celebration (fertility and thus the eggs) and Christmas from Saturnelia (the lit trees in example, plus birth from death).

The RCC incorporated them to merge their believers into the RCC. As with Mary coming from the Babylonian goddess Semiramis.

They also adopted holy water, prayer beeds and such from other relgions.

Protestants didn't escape nearly as much of the RCC as many think. Just look at those still locked into liturgies, rituals and such.

[kay-gee]

Amen to that!
all the best...

[a.baker]

Thank x Core for all the info. And I didn't know when Jesus was born. I only know these kinds of stories because of what all the Christians in my life have told me. How do we know the month Jesus was born? With all respect why do all Churches celebrate Christmas? The programs ,plays ,musical performances ,gift giving trees ,Christmas trees and decor ect. Why all the Christmas songs? What are those for or about, example silent night or away in a manger? Why was I always told to say Christmas and not xmas? Why do we capitalize the holidays? From what I am learning saying xmas would be correct and saying Christmas would be wrong. So what I originally planned to do with my nieces and nephew on Christmas with celebrating Jesus would be wrong? I originally planned on music and stories about Jesus and what it was actually about. I was even planning on some craft ideas and maybe cooking something special like a certain bread to pass from bible times (I don't know much on that, was planning on researching many things). I cannot give to them this year, so that was going to be my gift to them. They are all 11yrs. or younger and they will be upset if I don't bring something. I thought that would be the best gift to them compared to all the other materials. Now I think it would be extra wrong to do that. I thought God would be so happy and now I think that would make Him sad. That makes me sad. I was so excited about giving this to them and now I feel I can't. Again I am confused and hurt. Thank you everyone for answering my questions. This topic is really really bugging me.

[kay-gee]

a.baker you remain a free moral agent in Christ. You have the liberty! Don't get all bent out of shape over it!
all the best...

[Jessie]

are you feeling guilty that you cant celebrate because of pagan roots?

dont.

I think your idea of making bread like in those days as you can is a wonderful idea!
you are so full of ideas that are going to make a big impression on someone.
its gets one to thinking!

Its ok to celebrate christmas. its all in the "right spirit" thats the important thing.
santa does not exist nor the tooth fairy. its about Jesus.

you have liberty to celebrate that day to the Lord as any other!
dont let anyone or thing take that away from you!

its not the devils day to run hide from. God created the days....not the ole devil.
if you worshipped your christamas tree you bet throw it out the door but I'm pretty sure you dont!



hum theres a scripture pertaining to us not letting others judge us in what days we do things! have to find it for you.


if we listened to all these reports and give up our libertys then we
would be sitting doing nothing because its all the devils day in a sense.

well, phooy on that! serve your Lord!
you are a gift dont let anyone take that away from you!

God is not sad, he would be so and is so happy you care for others and want to get the word out! thats what Jesus was all about!

[kay-gee]

Well put Jessie...well put. Those were the words I wanted but I could not find them!
all the best...

[a.baker]

Oh Thank you so much Jessie! Your words really really helped me this morning! The bible doesn't say we are to celebrate those things, but it also doesn't say we are not to celebrate those things (Easter and Christmas). That sure did lift me today. I was starting to get sad thinking I couldn't celebrate Jesus any more. Every year I always think of Jesus and what it means on these days but this year was going to be different. I was going to share about Him and rejoice in Him and praise Him more than I ever did before. That fills me with instant joy! I can do that every day but theres something extra special when it comes to doing these things with children. Brings tears of happiness to ones eyes to hear children singing about Jesus and asking questions! Now thats pure joy. I am so excited to show them Jesus and get their minds off of the world for a minute. They know of Jesus but I am not sure where they are on that. Their parents are all super busy all the time I am not sure if they talk about God and Jesus much or not or what they are exactly exposed of. I don't see them much other than for holidays.