Help!!! Need advice today!!!

[a.baker]

Here is the situation. I have met this person once like a year ago. This person is going to school (college) and will be done pretty soon. I have never seen this mans wife or children but I have heard from 3 different people this info. including my husband. They live in an hotel and have 2 boys and a baby. They have one of those rooms that has 2 double beds and a mini microwave and a bathroom. They use the bathroom as their kitchen sink and the place is a total trashy mess with all kinds of bacteria and viruses from the living trashy conditions. The boys share a bed and the baby sleeps in bed with the mom and dad. The children are obese from constantly eating fast food and only watching t.v. since they live in a hotel. The mother is so lazy that she won't even pick up her husband from school. He doesn't work and neither does she. They live off of assistance. As far as I know the parents are not into drugs. Everyone says they want to call protective services but the man is their friend and so they can't. ( for reasons beyond me. if they were his friend they would call). I guess as soon as the man is done with school he plans on getting a job and taking his baby with him since the 2 boys are not his children. I have ask my husband where they live and the mans last name. My husband asked why and I told him because I wanted to call protective services and that made him mad and now he won't give me the info. I don't even know these peoples last name but God is talking so loud that I cant ignore Him to do something about it. But what? I don't know the info. This situation makes me sick to my stomach! What can I do? I feel without the info. its beyond me! They have been living like this for at least 2 yrs.

[a.baker]

One more thing remember my husband knows that there is a God but has not found Him yet and does not plan on it any time soon.

[CTZonEdit]

So he is leaving his wife after he graduates and taking the child they had together with him?

[a.baker]

Yes thats what he is doing. But will that happen... I don't know. And what about the other 2 boys? Will he just leave them behind in that situation? I don't know. They are all living in a single hotel room with 2 beds and everything is covered in filth! The children's basic needs are not being met. And that mother is not living her duty as being a mother or wife. Maybe its not my business but from what I here, I am having trouble ignoring it.

[Jessie]

thats a hard one. protective services can send a child from the frying pan into the fire.

more going on than meets the eye in that situation. could it be apathy from being poor?
things like that. and no its not ok. he should be supporting the family or trying to.

[CTZonEdit]

If they are living in a hotel then how come the room service is not taking care of the room or reporting the conditions to the manager?

Well I would inform the manager of the hotel of the situation. Inform him he can be held liable for the conditions of his business. The he can then force them to move, fix it or call services himself.

That is the first step I would take.

[Jessie]

it sounds like one of those places that you can rent for a week or more at a time.
but most of those have little kitchenettes in them or at least they used too.

I'd bet drugs are involved too.

[a.baker]

I will talk to my husband on that one about calling the hotel and we'll see where that goes. No I don't think it is conditions from being poor. Its a result of laziness and not caring for oneself as in love. If you can't love yourself then how can you love another? Me and my husband have been so poor for months at a time in the past to where there was literally 2 cans of food in our cupboard, car repossessed and so on and we never lived in those conditions. And we didn't even have children to care for. Children from my own experience make you care more and try harder. good example of this is: the mother won't pick her husband up from college or sometimes even drop him off. The husband gives others money to cart him here or there so its not a lack of gas money and their car is better then ours and runs fine. Its just a matter of laziness and not caring. At least the husband is trying to better in some way. Also if they never call maintenance and tell them they don't need house keeping because they live there then that is why no one ever sees the place that works there. I also know the system these kids would be taken to since we had also been through that within the last 2yrs. with my husbands cousins. 3 kids that were put through a lot of abuse and drugs. Is there abuse in this situation? That I do not know and wouldn't doubt.

[a.baker]

I just wanted to add something. Me and my family have been on assistance for about 5 yrs. now and trust me they don't come and investigate your home or you much except for the paper info. you give them.

[a.baker]

There are a lot of leaking vessels in our system. I see it first hand because I am in the system.

[a.baker]

Sorry one more reply to Jessies reply on the kitchen. No it has only a microwave no refrigerator. They use the bathroom sink for their kitchen sink and there is dirty dishes all over the place with mold growing on them from sitting for weeks.

[Jessie]

I still think drugs are involved.

[a.baker]

Well I am sure at least one drug is since every person that has personally seen this also does this one drug. And they all said they would call but this man is there friend. So what is better for the children? Stay in this situation because they are with mom and dad or be put in a place where other bad things happen like sexual abuse and such. Maybe they should stay with their mom and dad now thinking about the sexual abuse. I don't know. I see this type of thing a lot in various ways. I feel like our world is falling apart. I wish I was rich and had a special house for these type of children. Its a lose lose thing I guess. but its not my job to save the world ( I am glad on that one. what a job!)

[a.baker]

I got the advice to call the services from a Catholic. But I will talk to my husband about just calling the hotel management or C.E.O.? Hopefully my husband will give me the info.

[a.baker]

o.k. I called my husband at work and told him about the manager situation and he said he will think about it and we will talk more when he gets home.

[a.baker]

Interesting dreams I have had. I have 2 of these dreams and I like to interpret dreams since that is one way God does get in contact with us. My dreams are of rats biting my hands. Rats symbolize filth and poverty. They also symbolize the sick. The only thing I found on rat bites was biting of the feet which symbolizes a rat chase. But because the rats are biting my hands I think that it symbolizes something else. They are very painful and unexpected bites and I can't ever pry them off and I never want to seem to hurt the rats. Might have something to do with this situation. Any input?

[a.baker]

One more thing it may be more mental illness then drugs since the mother is bi-polar.

[CoreIssue]

Dream interpretation is dangerous, if one sees it coming from God.

We have had discussions on that, so search dream and read what was said. I believe it is on server, still.

Sounds more like your own mind dumping tensions and emotions. Since you have said what rats represent, that is a pre-set imagery that your mind used to say problems that are not easy to get rid of, probably.

[a.baker]

Well I must still share my interpretation of my 2 dreams. One was a week ago when I wasn't even thinking of the man. The other was this afternoon and my husband went to go and pick up the man from school last night made me think of him.

My interpretation is because both dreams are of rats biting my hands. The rats are the family living in filth ,sickness, and poverty. My hand represents that it is in my hands to do something because no one else will. As I try to pick up the rat gently and pull it off it won't loosen its grip its bites harder. So it means that I don't want to pull the rat off my hand, that is in tormenting pain, because it will break the family but the pain will stop. But there will be wounds afterwards. So maybe thats God telling me to act on it or not act on it. I don't know. God still speaks in dreams often. It has never led me astray and it always seemed right afterward. But I always have a hard time getting the final answer from them. So then I pray.

[a.baker]

Coreissue,

I do understand what you mean when you talk about reading into dreams. But remember that, that is a big way God communicates and the proof is in the bible in many stories. God very much speaks to us we just have to listen. Were not talking which craft and such here. Just talking about a couple of dreams.

[CoreIssue]

First, God would be clearer than that.

Second, he would not use rats to tell you to act or not.

And finally, as God gave increasing written revelation, dreams from God decreased. There are zero referenced in the NT.

There is no Gift of Dreams.

Visions are given. But they are not dreams. Very different.

[a.baker]

So how does He specifically communicate to you besides through people then? And why does that make sense? The thought popped into my head of what my dreams met and so I thought about it for like a few minutes. Its not like I pondered over it to make it mean something. I also don't read in all of my dreams. In fact maybe 1 or 2 a year. And to me to have God speak in a dream a couple times a year is often but when you think about what our time is thats not very often. God comes to us to speak to us at times in different ways because we are all different. I didn't get some crazy answer from my dream either. And yes God does use metaphors from time to time. Thats is partly where wisdom can come from. Gods sheep know their Shepherds voice.I have faith and trust in God to let me know when its not His voice. And I do know. I prayed about it and still feel strongly about it so why wouldn't God make me more eased from it? I've tried to think about the final answer to it and got this. He wants me to talk to this man in a friend to friend way and then bring up His name. He wants me to try to talk to them about the bible and what I know is truth. These people as far as I know have no other person to come to them to talk about Jesus. I think he wants me to talk to the man not the woman since she is mentally sick. But these things must be handled very carefully on how I approach the situation.
And I do appologize for my attitude its uncalled for. Something I must think on before I act on. I am working on that.

[a.baker]

Coreissue, I have researched and you are right that He would be more clear then that. But I researched on the internet and did find some about dreams and most were of Joseph right before virgin Mary was pregnant and after Jesus was born. I also found Acts 2:16 and 2:17 that speaks of visions and dreams as well. So maybe I am wrong but why else does it make sense? Also then if God does not speak to us in dreams and such then why did he use dreams before in the old testament and not now? Also why do we not act on the old testament but yet we acknowledge it by reading it. If the old testament is wrong and thrown out because of Jesus then why didn't God destroy the old testament? Is it to confuse us? What use is the old testament then? Why in Churches of Christ do we then proceed to teach our children of stories from the old testament? I will research it later when I have time. One was a boy that woke up to a dream or someone saying his name. He went to ask I think it was his father. His father then told him to go back asleep. This happened a couple more times and his father said it was God talking to him and to go back and pray. A story I was told often when I was a kid from some series of books for kids that were bible stories. I will research it later have to go to work now.

[a.baker]

One more thing on the old testament. If we are supposed to acknowledge it but not take it in, then that leads to nothing but confusion.If the old testament is so wrong then would that leave satan a place for confusion? I am an all or nothing type of person. Anything but, just doesn't make sense to me.Gods word is Gods word. So how are we supposed to take it in? And when we do we find all kinds of contradicting messages in the new testament as well. Why couldn't God be more clear? The only thing he was super clear on was Jesus the Messiah. Satan already confuses us so why also must the bible? Don't take that the wrong way. I believe in the bible, but what to come of it? When I pray how will God answer that? Maybe through people but how to know if thats Gods word or their own interpretation? Confusing!!! Confusion leads us to search but when we do its more complexed confusion.

[CoreIssue]

So how does He specifically communicate to you besides through people then? And why does that make sense?
The Holy Spirit dwells in our spirits. He communicates directly with our spirits.

Then the Bible. There is not much we need to know that isn't in it.

Those who need greater revelation receive the gifts of discernment, prophecy and such.

In discernment, you 'see.' When you are wide awake. It is something hard to discribe. Kinda like hearing and seeing but not with the ears or eyes.

With prophecy, the knowledge comes to one, again, by visions or siimly in understanding. But not via dreams. It is just there.

Same with the other gifts.

But not via dreams.
The thought popped into my head of what my dreams met and so I thought about it for like a few minutes. Its not like I pondered over it to make it mean something. I also don't read in all of my dreams. In fact maybe 1 or 2 a year. And to me to have God speak in a dream a couple times a year is often but when you think about what our time is thats not very often.
OK. Now look at those who hold to this thinking. Pentecostals, WoF, Charismatics, Pagans, Mystics and such. Everyone falls into a range of non-Biblical, experience based doctrines and beliefs. Everyone of them has a range of false beliefs, ranging from false doctrine to outright cultism and non-Christian.

My point being no solidly based Christian, who has one of the more unique gifts of the Spirit, do the dream thing.
God comes to us to speak to us at times in different ways because we are all different.
But not in just any different way. There are limits.

Demons and ones own mind also communicate with us. Dreams are one of the easiests avenues to do so.
I didn't get some crazy answer from my dream either. And yes God does use metaphors from time to time. Thats is partly where wisdom can come from. Gods sheep know their Shepherds voice.I have faith and trust in God to let me know when its not His voice. And I do know.
Really? Exactly what Pentecostals and such say. Exactly.

But the Bible says to test it. Don't assume.

Dreams fail the test. Demons can speak to us.

Just assuming from God is dangerous.
I prayed about it and still feel strongly about it so why wouldn't God make me more eased from it?
Because of personal responsibility.

God tells us we have a responsibility to study and know.

Pentecostals and such believe God will protect them from everything. They just have to have faith.

Bible does not say that. Says quite the opposite.

So, when you just wait for God to do it, but the Bible says you are suppose to learn and know, what does that tell you?

It tells you that God has already spoken to you, but you are not listening. So, all the faith in the world he will not allow error in here is a personal desire, not a Biblical reality.

God would not use rats to tell you to hold back. And he would not leave it vague as to meaning stop or stand firm and go forward.
I've tried to think about the final answer to it and got this. He wants me to talk to this man in a friend to friend way and then bring up His name. He wants me to try to talk to them about the bible and what I know is truth.
Which proves my point.

The meaning was not clear. You had to decide what it means.

God would have made the meaning abundantly clear.

These people as far as I know have no other person to come to them to talk about Jesus. I think he wants me to talk to the man not the woman since she is mentally sick. But these things must be handled very carefully on how I approach the situation.

Which is Biblical. Absolutely does not require a dream to tell you to do it.
And I do appologize for my attitude its uncalled for. Something I must think on before I act on. I am working on that.
Don't worry about it. We are talking, thinking and, hopefully, progressing, with our walk with God.

[a.baker]

Yes I know you don't understand. A mistake I did in resulting to the internet for fellowship.Made me think about God more then ever but yet made me more lost then ever. I prayed and found support from others and God eased my concerns with fellowship here and I am going to just go away for now and be with God. Occasionally I will reply if someone gives me a reply that needs to be noticed.Thank-x for debating all.

[CoreIssue]

Well, cults, false doctrine and many others 'think' about God. Great sounding line.

The problem comes when they equate what they 'think' as being from God.

So many claiming they got it right, from their own minds and perspective. Total disregard of what the Bible actually says.

Some totally reject the Bible. But they tell you they are listening to God and their thoughts say they are right.

Some claim to accept the Bible, in full, but don't have a clue what it actually says. They think that is enough to get God to simply 'download' truth straight into their brains and spirits. Then they can test it with their own logic.


So many doing all of this, and some many versions of the truth coming from it.

So many wanting hugs and kisses feel goodisms, while they are going straight to Hell. Bahai and many 'Chrisitan' cults are solidly in this category.

But what will tick them all off in a heartbeat? Quote the Bible at them that says they are wrong. BOOOOOM! Instant anger.

Not saying you are not saved.

But I am saying you are in the middle of the itching ears crowd the Bible warns us about.

As I told you, we care. But we are not going to abandon truth to make you feel good. You need truth to truly feel good.

And maybe God sent you here to open your eyes. That being the answer to your prayers you didn't expect or want.

But, your choice. In all things it is our choice. God deals with what we pick in his way, not ours.

[a.baker]

O.k. go ahead and have your judgment on my Christian walk. I will admit when I am wrong according to the bible at times as you can see I have no problem with that.I have no problem with change that is how we will learn and grow in our Christian walk. What I do have a problem with is the word cult being used too often when referring to my relationship with God. I know you have to be "right" and win all victory. But going about it that way will only make you miss out on something. Like I said the bible is Gods manual for our life to refer to. The bible is not meant to be ripped apart chewed up and spit into peoples faces. How are you to tell me what my relationship with Him consists of? That is between me and Him. Sorry if thats unacceptable to you. I will pray for you to have a different attitude on relationships. Thank-x again for any input but I have found Him and you can't deny me that.

[Jessie]

Core is trying to WARN YOU of what people do.

the bible is meant to be taught. Gods word is a two edged sword.... the bible says so.

which is more important to you the "feeling" of love and everything easy going, or
Gods truth? because they are worlds apart.

[a.baker]

Again you guys are not listening!!!! I hold the bible most high and I pray to get the answers. Those go hand in hand period.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

What we're trying to get you to see is that the Word of God and the direct way He has communicated with us is not a dream or a feeling. His Word is literal, powerful, and as Jessie said, a two-edged sword. It is that we follow, not emotionalism or vague images caused by dreams.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

O.k. go ahead and have your judgment on my Christian walk. I will admit when I am wrong according to the bible at times as you can see I have no problem with that.I have no problem with change that is how we will learn and grow in our Christian walk. What I do have a problem with is the word cult being used too often when referring to my relationship with God. I know you have to be "right" and win all victory. But going about it that way will only make you miss out on something. Like I said the bible is Gods manual for our life to refer to. The bible is not meant to be ripped apart chewed up and spit into peoples faces. How are you to tell me what my relationship with Him consists of? That is between me and Him. Sorry if thats unacceptable to you. I will pray for you to have a different attitude on relationships. Thank-x again for any input but I have found Him and you can't deny me that.

Stop being so defensive. People like that are unteachable.

You want love and fellowship, but I have heard very little coming from your posts as of late. Even if we perceived ourselves to be wronged, are we not to still be patient and kind? That is the way of our Father.

[a.baker]

O.k. I have been reading the bible and I have thought the best way to start would be Ecclesiastes and Revelations. I have learned much and now see much more then I did before. Yes I was being foolish but I did see things before that the bible is now only highlighting for me. Here is what I have found. In the Revelations it talks about how not one of the seven Churches are pleasing to God. He only talks of one Church that He will not let suffer in the end of times. His main focus with the other Churches seems to be ones repentance. I have also found much in wisdom from Ecclesiastes; seems to be all its about. I have been told by God that the only way to go about the bible is to first gain His wisdom which is well taught in the bible.From there when we use the wisdom as we travel through the bible our interpretations will be right and no false teachings will follow.That makes it so on my Christian walk I won't be fooled again as I was in the past from whispers of satan. I now understand why too many words are not wise. I also understand we must not look to the past or future for He cares about what we do today. It has also made me reconsider school. I don't think He wants me to go to school. He will give me everything I need to know for whats important to Him. Everything is meaningless and He is all that matters and I now realize that. It has re freshened and strengthened my faith. No words any man speaks of can take faith away. I have also read in the bible to not to listen too much to mans word for there is false teaching in that. He talks in Revelations of the one Church Sardis that has a reputation for being alive and knowing much but they are dead and do not see or hear. They need to wake up from their sleep. No wonder God does not want me to go to Church for it will soil what He is now trying to teach me. No wonder I can't possibly see complete truth in any denomination. They all have false teachings. No wonder he wants me to read the bible and not have someone else tells me what it means. He will tell me. No wonder the bible does not talk much of fellowship for when you really see and hear Him you will be attacked by satan in every way and feel lonely and sad. We can only find love and comfort in Him. The bible also speaks of sadness being of being pure at heart. He wants me see and hear but not study. Yes He wants me to read the bible every day but not to turn it into curricular study. If one man speaks of years of study and that makes it so they think they know more and a new Christian can't possibly know more of any one thing, then there lies false teachings within what he preaches. For God gives His wisdom and teachings to ones that turn to Him for answers, not ones who only rely study. He works through the Holy Spirit and that is where the truth comes from. When we are His sheep that will let us know how to handle Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. So far that is what our Father has shown me and I wanted to share it with everyone! One more thing patience is key. I may not always show it, but I have found it and the Holy Spirit in time will mold my heart into such.

[CoreIssue]

Here is where wisdom enters this issue, since you are talking about me.

I will be silent and let the 'younger folk' answer you. ;)

[Jessie]

I'm only just a bit younger ;)

quote:
He wants me see and hear but not study. Yes He wants me to read the bible every day but not to turn it into curricular study. If one man speaks of years of study and that makes it so they think they know more and a new Christian can't possibly know more of any one thing, then there lies false teachings within what he preaches. For God gives His wisdom and teachings to ones that turn to Him for answers, not ones who only rely study. He works through the Holy Spirit and that is where the truth comes from. When we are His sheep that will let us know how to handle Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. So far that is what our Father has shown me and I wanted to share it with everyone! One more thing patience is key. I may not always show it, but I have found it and the Holy Spirit in time will mold my heart into such.

I'd like to go over this part. why do you think God does not want you to study?
its not a either or thing of seeing and hearing or just curriculim (study)

you actually read and learned some things. a bit of study there!:nod:

many things like concerning daniel and revelation one has to study those things
and I tell you its very hard for me, I get some of it, some is very difficult.

We can learn from those who have learned more. dont push them out because they are older those here have never lead me wrong!

getting wisdom comes from Gods word, not asking then a feeling.

ecclesiastes 3 yes a time for all things.

the bible is chock full of wisdom

and with wisdom its a growing process.

I like the proverbs.

and beware we can all fall into satans traps.

for me and going to church, too much false weird garbage in them anymore.
one really cant find a god fearing, biblical teaching church.
they if they exist are few and far between.

please keep reading your bible. love to hear more of what you've found:tiphat:

[Jessie]

2 TI 2:15

study to shew theyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be
ashamed , rightly dividing the word of God.

so right there in the bible it tells us to study!:nod:

[a.baker]

You must not understand what I mean by study. There are different types. The one I was acknowledging and throwing out is the kind you would find in a classroom. The kind I am taking in and God wants me to proceed with is the kind that comes from growing and changing into His image. Label it with any word its really irrelevant. The meaning of it is what matters. Choose to use the word study if you want but I like to use the words seeking and searching. Please don't get lost in my words of choice for the main point and idea will be thrown out. I am just sharing some truth God has showed me. Revelations? Still in the middle of it. So far I can completely understand it but I am sure confusion of it will soon to follow since we aren't to know it completely. We as children of God need to know just enough to keep us out of the darkness and tricks of satan.

[a.baker]

Question about the Jewish religion (is it called Juda?). I know they don't except Jesus as the messiah but do they accept Revelations? If so, I have thought of this to maybe prove this to them that Jesus was the Messiah. The New Testament says Jesus was the Messiah and if you can't except Jesus then you reject God. If you reject God then you are of sin. When Revelations talks about the seven Churches it mentions they don't please Him most commonly because of the lack of repentance. No where does He say a Church is not pleasing to Him because they don't except His Son. So if the Jews except the revelations and not Jesus then it should put up a flag that if they don't except Jesus then they are automatically thrown out of even being considered a church or following His word. They would then be nothing more but sinners. Just a question of thought.I am past that point in Revelations and still understand but have some questions to research. I am going to look into the bible for the answers.

[a.baker]

Or is their religion called Islam?

[CoreIssue]

Question about the Jewish religion (is it called Juda?).
Judaism.
I know they don't except Jesus as the messiah but do they accept Revelations?
You mean the Book of Revelation?

No. They do not accept any NT book.
If so, I have thought of this to maybe prove this to them that Jesus was the Messiah. The New Testament says Jesus was the Messiah and if you can't except Jesus then you reject God. If you reject God then you are of sin.
Yep.
When Revelations talks about the seven Churches it mentions they don't please Him most commonly because of the lack of repentance.
Let me tweak this one a little.

They need to repent because of false doctrine or failure to abide by sound doctrine. Even to the point of not being Christian, in some cases. Meaning not saved.
No where does He say a Church is not pleasing to Him because they don't except His Son.
Yep.
So if the Jews except the revelations and not Jesus then it should put up a flag that if they don't except Jesus then they are automatically thrown out of even being considered a church or following His word.
First, they are not Church and do not use the term church to refer to themselves in any way.

Second, the reject the NT, completely.
They would then be nothing more but sinners.
Messianic Jews are Christians, and saved. Judaism followers are not Christian and are not saved.
Just a question of thought.I am past that point in Revelations and still understand but have some questions to research. I am going to look into the bible for the answers.
Not sure why you are into Revelation, already. It is better to get the rest of the NT down first.

But, with that said, you will see that there are several group divisions in Revelation. Those being:
1. Saved Gentiles, called Trib Saints. Many die at the hands of the AC.
2. Unsaved Gentiles, not taking the Mark of the Beast. A very small group by the end of the Trib, if any survive.
3. Unsaved Gentiles, taking the Mark. All die by the Second Coming.
4. Saved Jews, called the Woman, saved before Mid Trib, including the 144,000. They are protected from Mid to Second Coming. Probably in Petra.
5. Jews saved after Mid. Many of them will die at the hands of the AC. Many will hide in other countries.
6. Unsaved Jews, not taking the Mark. Many who survive the Trib will be saved at the Second Coming.
7. Unsaved Jews, taking the Mark. All die by Second Coming.

Hope that helps a little.

[CoreIssue]

Or is their religion called Islam?
No. Islam was founded by Mohammed.

It is a religion founded on blending Persian Mysticism and African Catholicism, of the time.

Allah was one of many Persian deities. The Islamic Cresent was his symbol.

He had wives and daughters, in the ancient beliefs. And still did for Mohammed.

But, with time, it evolved into the monotheistic form of today.

Its holy book is the Qu'ran/Koran.

[Jessie]

You must not understand what I mean by study. There are different types. The one I was acknowledging and throwing out is the kind you would find in a classroom. The kind I am taking in and God wants me to proceed with is the kind that comes from growing and changing into His image. Label it with any word its really irrelevant. The meaning of it is what matters. Choose to use the word study if you want but I like to use the words seeking and searching. Please don't get lost in my words of choice for the main point and idea will be thrown out. I am just sharing some truth God has showed me. Revelations? Still in the middle of it. So far I can completely understand it but I am sure confusion of it will soon to follow since we aren't to know it completely. We as children of God need to know just enough to keep us out of the darkness and tricks of satan.


I got it. the whole idea is relationship with God. and we cant do that without knowing who He is by knowing His word.

classroom study, well, thats study with no relationship I think is what you're saying.

nope Iwould'nt want that either.

[a.baker]

Good wording on the study thing Jessie that is what I mean and something I can now see that many fall into i.e. my mother in law. I am discovering many things now that I was blind to before. Coreissue the reason I chose Revelations is because I feel like that is where God was pointing me to start. I know it does seem odd since it is the hardest to understand. But as I am reading other things in the bible they seem to be explained instead of me questioning so much. For example I always wondered what it meant by oils. The answer is in Revelations and same as white clothes which I also found the answer to in Revelations. I found you can't just stick to one book of the bible you have to go back and forth. All the answers to questions seem to be in the bible even questions about Revelations. Their are some questions in revelations that I may not find an answer for and maybe thats because we aren't meant to know all the answers to questions. For example the eyes on creatures. What do those stand for? Maybe I will find the answer but probably not. But the basic concept is something I am getting.

[CoreIssue]

Good wording on the study thing Jessie that is what I mean and something I can now see that many fall into i.e. my mother in law. I am discovering many things now that I was blind to before.
Good. It is showing.
Coreissue the reason I chose Revelations is because I feel like that is where God was pointing me to start. I know it does seem odd since it is the hardest to understand.
OK.
But as I am reading other things in the bible they seem to be explained instead of me questioning so much.
That is how it works. ;)
For example I always wondered what it meant by oils. The answer is in Revelations and same as white clothes which I also found the answer to in Revelations.
Not sure what you found on oils, but let me point out three uses, which you may already have seen.
1. Medical treatment. Different kings of oils were heavily used then.
2. Powering lamps.
3. Annointing people. A sign or mark. The Holy Spirit is called the oil of the covenant lamps, so a shadow type of him, in a way, of the indwelling he would later do. He was found in the oil resevoir of the OT Israel Lampstand (KJV got it really wrong saying candle stand). And in the mission of the 7 lamps, the special angels you find in the OT and in Revelation.
I found you can't just stick to one book of the bible you have to go back and forth.
That is what I a was talking about concerning building the bigger picture.

But remember, do it grammatically correct and literally. Not this figurative error many make, as in putting an OT and NT passage together and trying to read them as one passage. That guarantees error.
All the answers to questions seem to be in the bible even questions about Revelations.
They are there.

But what you quickly learn is there is such a tremendous amount of information, it takes years to even realize what all is there.

Indeed, the Bible is multi-layer.

Not the error of 'spiritually' discerned that so many fall into, wanting quick answers so biting into that.

Multi-layer in that you one day discover there is a literal subcontext that had meaning that was always there, but you just didn't see it.
Their are some questions in revelations that I may not find an answer for and maybe thats because we aren't meant to know all the answers to questions.
In a few cases, yes. But in the main it is simply you have not learned enough yet.

And like it or not, that is where talking to those who have years more study than you can help. You can get there faster.

But it still takes a long time.

Go to the site Main Page and click into the End Times Charts. Look them over and read.

THAT is where all your study is heading to, in direction. So, no way you are going to get all of that down pat in a couple of read throughs.

And such is helpful in giving you a perspective to think about. Challenges your way of looking at things.
For example the eyes on creatures. What do those stand for? Maybe I will find the answer but probably not. But the basic concept is something I am getting.
And it should make you ask what the creatures are.

They are not angels, as a hint. They are flesh and blood, a knowledge that comes from using an Interlinear to look at the word meanings in Greek, from Revelation, and Hebrew, from Ezekiel.

It is a good question, though.

My thought, which I will not say is abolutely true, is that since they are the first around the throne, carry they throne, and such, it says they are either the eyes of the throne, or represent the eyes of the throne, meaning the all seeing God.

You never see them away from the throne.

Might be, but never said.

And are there more of them? If so, what does that mean?

That links into a totally different area. But gives an idea of questions that arise with further studies.

[a.baker]

Its kinda funny how my husband says I am getting super religious (a complaint of his). But the Revelations talks about the one Church thats luke warm and He wishes they would pick one or the other. I agree its an all or nothing type of thing. I just wanna talk to him about what I am reading especially since he has read it all before and I think he is getting sick of me talking about it. But I can't stop.

Anyways I am at the part where the seventh seal was opened and the 7 angels prepare to sound their trumpets. The star Wormwood seems to be something specific; do you know what the name means? It then proceeds to talk about (after the 4th angel blows the trumpet) of the eagle flying in the sky and calls out to warn of the last 3 angels and their trumpets. Is the eagle one of the four creatures? Also to me it seems that with the four creatures, each creatures form must symbolize something. I think I got the symbolizing of the creatures correct.Also with the seals being open and the horses I am pretty sure I got the basic part figured out. (sorry I am jumping around a bit)
1st horse was white and the rider was given a crown. I take that as the white horse resembles white clothes and the crown must be the crown of life and the riders mission must be to bring the word of God to the earth people.

2nd horse is a firey red horse that has power to take peace from earth and make man slay each other. Rider was given a sword. I take that as some kinda war. Now what I can't figure out is it a war of Gods word verses sin?

With the 3rd seal and the black horse and the rider having a pair of scales seems to be the rider has scales to weigh something. It then continues to talk of measurements for a days wages. Then proceeds to talk about not damaging the oil and wine. I take that as talking about the earthly men that are from the one Church (people of Thyatira Church) have been given permission to have authority over nations to start but they can't damage in the process which means its not time yet to use the iron scepter?

And then the 4th seal has the pale horse with the rider named death and Hades was following close behind. Who is Hades? Says that he was given the power to kill by sword famine and plague. Is that referring to killing people of poor and sick? Or is it referring to killing off poverty and sickness? And what are the wild beasts referring to? It can't be the creatures because it says the beasts are beasts of earth. Would the wild beasts be killing of some of the demons?

Don't want to make this reply too long. I will ask about the other seals later. Lots of info. and questions here.

[CoreIssue]

Its kinda funny how my husband says I am getting super religious (a complaint of his). But the Revelations talks about the one Church thats luke warm and He wishes they would pick one or the other. I agree its an all or nothing type of thing. I just wanna talk to him about what I am reading especially since he has read it all before and I think he is getting sick of me talking about it. But I can't stop.
There is a hunger attached to it.

The growth and change are things one does not want to cease.
Anyways I am at the part where the seventh seal was opened and the 7 angels prepare to sound their trumpets. The star Wormwood seems to be something specific; do you know what the name means?
Bitter.
It then proceeds to talk about (after the 4th angel blows the trumpet) of the eagle flying in the sky and calls out to warn of the last 3 angels and their trumpets. Is the eagle one of the four creatures?
No. The eagle is an angel.
Also to me it seems that with the four creatures, each creatures form must symbolize something. I think I got the symbolizing of the creatures correct.
In study you will see that each creatures features represent various way God is symbolized in the Bible.

Christ is a man. Christ is the Lion of Judah, meaning king. OX is strength and patience. And so on.

Not saying it is strictly limited to just this. But those are in there.

Also with the seals being open and the horses I am pretty sure I got the basic part figured out. (sorry I am jumping around a bit)
1st horse was white and the rider was given a crown. I take that as the white horse resembles white clothes and the crown must be the crown of life and the riders mission must be to bring the word of God to the earth people.

Sorry. Way off there.

It is the AC bringing the Peace Treaty talked about in the opening of the 70th Week of Daniel.

Charts will help you here.

And he is the one who was, is not and will be. At least the demon in him is.

You just stepped into a very complex one where you will NOT get the full information and meaning from Revelation. Much is spelled out in Daniel.

The king who was is the demon who was with Alexander the Great, the 3rd Beast and belly of the statue.

He rode a white horse, conquered more with treaties than with war (bow without arrows of the 1st Rider), was slick, fast, homsexual and more. Fits the AC line for line.

You are getting in deep here, much deeper than you realize, yet.

2nd horse is a firey red horse that has power to take peace from earth and make man slay each other. Rider was given a sword. I take that as some kinda war. Now what I can't figure out is it a war of Gods word verses sin?

No. Don't spiritualize it.

It is the war the AC brings to the earth. Again, you are not ready to assign meaning yet. Tons of information on these issues in Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Zechariah and other books.

Don't get ahead of yourself here.

You will see 1/3 of the earth dies in the seals.

With the 3rd seal and the black horse and the rider having a pair of scales seems to be the rider has scales to weigh something. It then continues to talk of measurements for a days wages. Then proceeds to talk about not damaging the oil and wine. I take that as talking about the earthly men that are from the one Church (people of Thyatira Church) have been given permission to have authority over nations to start but they can't damage in the process which means its not time yet to use the iron scepter?

NO! Complete off target.

It is the famine from the wars and droughts of the seals.

Weighing is refering to exacting measures of what one gets for their money. It shows every grain of food is charged for.

Measure of pages says it will take whole days of wages to pay for even a loaf of bread.

Not damaging the oil and wine is refering to their costs will be phenomenal. Beyond the scope of most. They will be rare and expensive commodities.

And there is NO Church in the Trib. It is gone in the Pre-Trib Rapture, per Rev 3:10, the removal of the Church Lampstands and such.

The 7th church is not the Church. There was nothing good about it. It is spit out into the Trib.

These are lost folk.

The AC has authority during the Trib. He slaughters true Saints.

They don't have authority, they are running for their lives.
And then the 4th seal has the pale horse with the rider named death and Hades was following close behind. Who is Hades?
Hell.
Says that he was given the power to kill by sword famine and plague. Is that referring to killing people of poor and sick? Or is it referring to killing off poverty and sickness?
No. It is referring to people dieing in the millions due to war, famine, drought and disease.

2/3 of the earth's population die during the Trib.

And what are the wild beasts referring to? It can't be the creatures because it says the beasts are beasts of earth. Would the wild beasts be killing of some of the demons?

No. It is starving and other wild animals attacking and killing people.

You cannot kill demons.
Don't want to make this reply too long. I will ask about the other seals later. Lots of info. and questions here.
OK. But I have to say you are trying to put the wrong take on the Trib.

It is the most vile and evil time that will ever exist on this earth. Death and sin will reign supreme.

Sorry, but you are only beginning. You are no where even faintly near being able to put meaning to it all. You have tons more study to do, first, in many books of the Bible.

[Jessie]

is the famine world wide?

[CoreIssue]

is the famine world wide?
It does not specify.

But when you read all the issues, it would seem to be the reality.

2/3 of all the earth's population dies. So, at a mimimum, the sum of all the issues are killing off people.

[a.baker]

I have researched more on the first horse the white horse and its rider. It will conquer but to conquer what seems to be unknown. The breaking of seals means God allows evil but He is not the author of it. The white horse rider could be the imitator of Christ and the deceives to let the beast fulfill its destiny. The white horse is part of the deception. Interesting. Something you see right now with people in wide numbers seem to say they are Christians but their words and actions show different once you open up the bible and start reading. ( my problem before).

[CoreIssue]

I have researched more on the first horse the white horse and its rider. It will conquer but to conquer what seems to be unknown. The breaking of seals means God allows evil but He is not the author of it. The white horse rider could be the imitator of Christ and the deceives to let the beast fulfill its destiny. The white horse is part of the deception. Interesting. Something you see right now with people in wide numbers seem to say they are Christians but their words and actions show different once you open up the bible and start reading. ( my problem before).
Not unknown.

Spelled out in Revelation and Daniel, heavily. Some other info in other books, as well.

His goal remains what it has always been. To kill off all believers in God and purge the Jews from the earth, so that the Abrahamic Covenant cannot be fulfilled.

The idea being that if God's plan is unable to complete, he wins and the earth is his.

And yes, many AC's have already been, many are and there will be more.

But there is on one The AC.

But don't fall into the idea that the AC will be Apostate Christianity. He will not.

His religion is a restored Roman Paganism, tweaked to the modern day, of course.

[a.baker]

I have done more research on the first seal. The bow could symbolize war and the crown could symbolize to rule. Because the crown was given it shows it was given authority but did not originate to have authority.The authority had to be given. But what the rider conquers seems to be unknown. Seals broken means that God allows evil but He is not the author of it. The white horse rider could be the imitator of Christ and the world deceiver and so the beast fulfills its destiny. The white horse is part of the Deception. Interesting. It seems their are many who claim to be Christians today but when you open up the bible and start reading; the bible outlines the falsehood of these people. (reminds me of the way I was starting to travel. proves God is answering my prayers).

[a.baker]

Oops. I posted basically the same thing twice. I went back to a different page and thought I forgot to submit my reply and I couldn't find my reply so I typed it again and submitted a new one.

[CoreIssue]

I have done more research on the first seal. The bow could symbolize war
Without the arrow it means conquering by peace. Daniel tells is it is via a major 7 year peace treaty.
and the crown could symbolize to rule. Because the crown was given it shows it was given authority but did not originate to have authority.The authority had to be given. But what the rider conquers seems to be unknown.
It does symbolize rule.

And the authority is given by Satan to the AC, who gained it by tricking Adam and Eve into giving it up to him.

God, by withdrawing the Restrainer, the Holy Spirit, who is of God, enables the AC to go full tilt.

You find that in Thessalonians, where it says the AC is revealed with the Restrainer is removed.

[a.baker]

I see that hades and the word death are together often in the revelations. Does that just mean death will be bitter? Also in the forth seal It says it will have control of 1/4 of the earth. So with that in mind I found some one else's interpretation of what the 1/4 stands for. It could be geographically or demographically. Its based on 2 Daniel and Ezekiel 38 that the beasts empire will consist of people from modern day Iraq, Iran, Syria, Ethiopia, Libya, Ukraine, Turkey, Russia, and Germany. These nations together combined are only 1/10 of the total population of the earth. But geographically the nations equal to 1/4 of the earths total landmass. I found that interesting.

The interpretation of this person goes on to talking about the wild beast Ezkiel 14:21. In the Greek addition wild beast is called tharion which only means beast Titus 1:12 or Acts 11:16. So the beast could be a false prophet.

The mans interpretation went into talking about seals 5,6,and 7 is the wrath of God. 5th seal asks for it, seal 6 announces it and seal 7 depicts it . I didn't read much more of this mans interpretation since that is where I have left off in the bible. I must continue in the bible first before I try to find any meaning.

[CoreIssue]

I see that hades and the word death are together often in the revelations. Does that just mean death will be bitter?
Death leads to Hell.

But Wormwood is another issue. It is physical strike on the earth.

There is a star named Wormwood.

Probably talking about an asteroid turning the water bitter, killing of the life within.
Also in the forth seal It says it will have control of 1/4 of the earth. So with that in mind I found some one else's interpretation of what the 1/4 stands for. It could be geographically or demographically.
Geographical. War, famine, pestilence and disease.

You will notice there there is repeated hits on segments of the earth. So, all the earth gets hit with something.
Its based on 2 Daniel and Ezekiel 38 that the beasts empire will consist of people from modern day Iraq, Iran, Syria, Ethiopia, Libya, Ukraine, Turkey, Russia, and Germany. These nations together combined are only 1/10 of the total population of the earth. But geographically the nations equal to 1/4 of the earths total landmass. I found that interesting.
And it is wrong.

The AC Empire is quite well defined in the Statue and Beasts.

The Roman Empire collapsed into Ten Nations, the Toes.

The AC rises out of the Toes, Greece specifically, and the Toes recombine into his empire.

It is the EU. Overlay a map of the EU with the Ten Rome collapsed into, and you have a match.

The AC alive and working there now. But we don't know who he is.

The interpretation of this person goes on to talking about the wild beast Ezkiel 14:21. In the Greek addition wild beast is called tharion which only means beast Titus 1:12 or Acts 11:16. So the beast could be a false prophet.

Stay away from this source.

I can already see they are into nameing the First Beast and the Second Beast groups of people.

They are not. The AC First Beast is one man. The FP Second Beast is one man.

The parallel can be found in Pagan Roman religion. The Emporer, a godking, had a High Priest, the Pontificus Maximus.
The mans interpretation went into talking about seals 5,6,and 7 is the wrath of God.
All of the Trib is the wrath of God. All of it.
5th seal asks for it, seal 6 announces it and seal 7 depicts it .
Totally none literal.

Each seal has its own events. The events do not cease as another seal is opened. They build on each other.

Linear. Seals in order followed by Trumpets followed by Bowls.

Go to the Chart link. It will help you.
I didn't read much more of this mans interpretation since that is where I have left off in the bible. I must continue in the bible first before I try to find any meaning.
Yep.

[a.baker]

Oh how sad and discouraging when people don't want to listen and see. You want to share and it angers and annoys them. You have found the truth in the bible and they tell you to quiet.

[Jessie]

will the wormwood make all the worlds waters bad or just a portion?

Abaker :scratch:

[a.baker]

I hope no one took my last reply personally. I was talking about my husband and his friend when they see me on this site they roll their eyes and I was talking about this other site I saw when I was reading what these people were posting. I could tell if I ever replied to this other site I would be attacked and tested. I definitely feel weaker as I read more of the bible.

[a.baker]

I found this ...
the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter...
I take that as only a third of the waters turn bitter from the falling star. Something interesting to me is how it talks about some portions in fractions and other portions are worded out. Must make the fractions it speaks of different it some way.

[a.baker]

Psalm 3 will help me with this. Also what is interesting is that other site I was looking at and reading posts looked a lot like this site. Same set up and colors and so on. My husband thought I was at CTZ when I was looking at that other site.

[kay-gee]

Hi a.baker. Don't worry. My wife does the same sometimes. She IS a believer! She just thinks I could be doing more constructive things sometimes, for instance house maintenance etc..., instead of
going on a computer site that heats up my emotions, and causes me to lose sleep. Sometimes, I spend inordinate amounts of time fretting over Core Issue and The things I want to say. I fear that is the "cultish-ness" of CTZ. I must admit though that I am hooked! Hang in there a.baker. It gets better!.......all the best...

[CoreIssue]

will the wormwood make all the worlds waters bad or just a portion?

Abaker :scratch:
I cannot remember, off hand, if it s 1/3 or 1/4.

But not the whole.

[CoreIssue]

Hi a.baker. Don't worry. My wife does the same sometimes. She IS a believer! She just thinks I could be doing more constructive things sometimes, for instance house maintenance etc..., instead of
going on a computer site that heats up my emotions, and causes me to lose sleep. Sometimes, I spend inordinate amounts of time fretting over Core Issue and The things I want to say. I fear that is the "cultish-ness" of CTZ. I must admit though that I am hooked! Hang in there a.baker. It gets better!.......all the best...
Cultish?

OK, KG, start another thread and spell out that accusation, backed with proofs.

Do not try to derail this topic.

Go to the Amos 9 thread and deal with it. That is a good place to take a shot at showing how cultish CTZ is.

Glad you hear I bug you. Maybe you are seeing that your emotions don't add up to facts.

Beliefs and Declarations do not facts make. Many times that will not be realized until you have to actually PROVE something. ;)

:news: Go do some study and then post your proofs. (You won't find them.)

[a.baker]

Its says a third but it is spelled out instead of a mathematical fraction. I think there is something significant with that. What is it? I don't know and maybe we are not to know. It says somewhere in the bible that too much study will tire you because there is no end when it comes to the bible. The end is in the revelations which much of that is unknown to us. A lot of times when I have a question that makes me lose sleep I can find the answer in the bible. That will settle my mind and I can then sleep. I also am losing sleep and an appetite for food. I am completely obsessed with Gods word in the bible and that is what I hunger for. It has taken over me and I am starting to think so much where I can feel a craziness arising in me. Thank you for the encouragement Kaygee to keep me going. I need that sometimes!

[CoreIssue]

Psalm 3 will help me with this. Also what is interesting is that other site I was looking at and reading posts looked a lot like this site. Same set up and colors and so on. My husband thought I was at CTZ when I was looking at that other site.
We didn't do much customizing beyond changing the logo and its spacing.

Added a number of mods, as well.

But, the overall color scheme and style is out of the box.

It is a lot or work to re-customize after every upgrade. And makes the upgrades a lot harder.

As for Psalm 3, it does show God will help us through hardships, even when it appears he is not.
I found this ...
the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter...
I take that as only a third of the waters turn bitter from the falling star. Something interesting to me is how it talks about some portions in fractions and other portions are worded out. Must make the fractions it speaks of different it some way.
Right. 1/3.

Nah! Just different terms for the same thing.

Like 3 1/2 months, 42 months and half a week all means the same thing, as in 3.5 Hebrew years of 360 days each.
I hope no one took my last reply personally. I was talking about my husband and his friend when they see me on this site they roll their eyes and I was talking about this other site I saw when I was reading what these people were posting. I could tell if I ever replied to this other site I would be attacked and tested. I definitely feel weaker as I read more of the bible.
There is a difference between being attacked and tested.

The old phrase for tested is Constructive Criticism. You don't hear that said much, anymore, in the PC age.
Oh how sad and discouraging when people don't want to listen and see. You want to share and it angers and annoys them. You have found the truth in the bible and they tell you to quiet.
We all have to be careful on this.

Some get mad because they are challenged. Some get mad because the challenge shows them wrong. And some see others get mad because their challenge proves in error.

Being human is a definite burder here.

[CoreIssue]

I forgot.

No, it would not be in fractions and such.

That system wasn't invented until much later. As was the numberic system we use today.

[kay-gee]

Testy, testy! I was not referring to CtZ as a cult in the dictionary sense of the word. If I was using it in the context of "Rocky Horror Picture Show" or the "Grateful Dead" you would know exactly what I meant. C'mon Core, your ability to interpret human speech is better than that! CTZ has a following. No denying that!

all the best...

[kay-gee]

Basically I love CTZ because... Those of us that live in our lovey dovey PC world, need some where we can go to put our dukes up! It stimulates me on a different level. Even though I've been dragged down kicked and spit upon sometimes, I can't get enough. I guess i need to see and experience the other side of Christianity.

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Testy, testy! I was not referring to CtZ as a cult in the dictionary sense of the word. If I was using it in the context of "Rocky Horror Picture Show" or the "Grateful Dead" you would know exactly what I meant. C'mon Core, your ability to interpret human speech is better than that! CTZ has a following. No denying that!

all the best...
Well, on a theology site cult has an assumed meaning. You should realize that.

Hmmm. Well, if a following is a cult than churches with loyal memberships are cults. ;)

[kay-gee]

a.baker sometimes we have to accept the fact that there is nothing we can do. (talking about the people living in the motel room). We are to show hospitality, but especially to the household of faith. If these people are your bro and sis in the faith, then by all means do what you can to help them. I apolgize if I de-railed your thread.

all the best...

[kay-gee]

Yeah, there is some truth in what you say. I have been accused of being a member of a cult. I prefer to think of it as more of a "sect".

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Basically I love CTZ because... Those of us that live in our lovey dovey PC world, need some where we can go to put our dukes up! It stimulates me on a different level. Even though I've been dragged down kicked and spit upon sometimes, I can't get enough. I guess i need to see and experience the other side of Christianity.

all the best...
Spit upon?

My, my. :eek:

Well, if disagreeing while not accepting rhetoric as answers qualify, then I stand quilty. :nod:

[CoreIssue]

Hey, a.baker. You are not forgotten.

How goes it?

[a.baker]

No hijacking thread here kaygee. I love to see the back and forth differences because that is how we get to know each other as people.It reminds us that we are human. I love to see how different things can be taken. The English language does have too many words to describe one thing and that can bring up confusion especially on the internet because we can't see or hear the body language and that also speaks high volumes when communicating..
I was originally just talking about how I see similarities on how I feel and how Jesus felt when it comes to people telling you to quiet when you talk about what wonderful truth you know (for me its the bible. Jesus was His Son and so He just knew).I can't be quiet about the bible for example when I am around my husband and he really wishes I would and just have my religious beliefs become a side hobby quote "man you are becoming super religious". Its an all or nothing thing with Him. My husband also for example doesn't like things he sees changing in me but I have to listen to Him and no other. The change is good. I can finally repent in my many bad ways I couldn't before. I just want to share and people are ready to tell me to quiet. No one here though and that is partly why I keep coming back. This walk is a challenge like no other. Me and my mother are going to start having bible time together soon. :hug:

[Chrystalwuzhere]

a.baker,

It is so refreshing to me to see you digging in the Word, and asking questions about it, as well as discussing it.

Your husband isn't saved, so he can't understand the joy within you. Your life will be an example of the Word of God, so as your light shines before him, he'll see Jesus in your life. And that will be one way of witnessing to him.

I pray that your faith and knowledge increases. The things you are learning now are exciting. There's nothing like learning God's Word. It's so wonderful!

Praying for you.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

One more thing...

As for the situation in your original post....

If it were me, (and I'm only speaking about what I would do)....if I knew for sure that those children were being abused, and were in danger, I'd call CPS in a second!

God bless!

[a.baker]

Thank-x much Chrystalwuzhere, but the info. is being with held from me on that situation.

The only thing when it comes to having bible time with my mother is that she is one to say "you just need to believe in God and Jesus and that is it". Which is true but it can be a tough one when you want to dig into the bible and find much more. My mother has patience and nothing but. But my father has anger and pride and nothing but and he might try to get in on the bible time too. I am looking forward to it. Will be interesting.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Question about the Jewish religion (is it called Juda?).

Judaism.
I know they don't except Jesus as the messiah but do they accept Revelations?

You mean the Book of Revelation?

No. They do not accept any NT book.

They won't read Daniel either. They won't talk about it, and stay away from it. Sad, really. It told them exactly when Messiah would come. That's why they shy away from it. They can't explain what's written therein except for to either not talk about it, or to say it was written AFTER the fact.

[a.baker]

So way later down the road in Revelations when the (1 or 2 I forget) 2 men come with all those special powers they are probably gonna say "Theres the Messiah" . When in fact Jesus also talks about that and says "It won't be me. Don't follow them" Matthew 24: 15-26. And than all the lost people that wouldn't listen to us will listen to them and follow them and everyone will listen to their false religion. Thats where it looks like it will go. Really they won't read Daniel? Isn't that in the old testament? How frustrating. But I guess thats the path some choose to go. You can't do much with someone that doesn't want to listen. Do they claim to have the Holy Spirit resting inside their souls too? Do they feel joy and peace? Do they go to Church on Saturdays? Just some questions. I don't know anyone who is Jewish.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

No, those two men are sent by God to minister and witness during the tribulation period. They are ordained by God, given power by God, and speaking of God's behalf.

It will be Enoch and Elijah. They never died, but were translated to Heaven by God without ever seeing death. They'll be sent here during the tribulation period to do God's work. Those are the two the book of Revelation speaks of.

[a.baker]

Now I see.

[a.baker]

Without teachers, elders, or counselors of God we would be lost. I would be lost. Thank-x. Without the bible we would all be lost. Many questions to ask and many answers to seek. But do you think the Jews will look at the AC as the Messiah?

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Without teachers, elders, or counselors of God we would be lost. I would be lost. Thank-x. Without the bible we would all be lost. Many questions to ask and many answers to seek. But do you think the Jews will look at the AC as the Messiah?

For a while, until he desecrates the temple. Then they'll know they made a horrible, horrible mistake.



Also, don't ever be afraid to ask questions. It's how we learn. It always prompts me to get deeper in the Word...so it's really good on both sides...for the one asking, and the one answering. It requires study, which is always a good thing. :nod:

[Jessie]

when will they ever get it? any carnal man cant be trusted....

[a.baker]

Another question; the commandment considering the Sabbath. When it says you shouldn't ask anyone to work either where do you draw the line? If people are already working Sundays and say you go grocery shopping (which is enjoyable to you) and you conduct business when you checkout; is that asking someone to work? They are already working whether you go shopping or not.

[a.baker]

I usually go through the self checkouts because I like to bag my own groceries any way.

[CoreIssue]

OK, you need to stop using the OT Sabbath as the model. The fullness of then was a different purpose than now.

They did actually do work on the Sabbath, in the early Church, as in around the house, inn the meetings, journeying further than the distance restriction and so on.

The idea is not to shut down complete, but to set time apart where you are not tied up in the daily world.

[Jessie]

we are in the NT, we are at liberty to choose when we do this.

we are under grace not the law.

[a.baker]

It's really hard to know where would God draw the line on extremes. Thats where different interpretations can get confusing. It's hard to know the details. Some things are to be extreme and some aren't. Thats where we can get mixed up in the original message. We are able to choose when the day of rest is for us personally. But the whole world seems to shut down on Sundays. So if you can't beat em join em. Can't go to Church service any day but Sunday. Most people have work off (family time and such). Most businesses close; for example banks. And thats when most people aren't too busy to sit down and have fellowship. Does the new testament say anything about the commandments besides to obey them?