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Sid
04-23-2007, 04:18 PM
Other than the worship of the Virgin Mary, the doctrine we most associate with the Roman Catholic church and her abuses is probably her doctrine of purgatory.

First of all, it is invention without a shred of biblical support. Rome's primary biblical support is in one of the Apocryphal books, of all things, II Maccabees 12. But even this is a doubtful reference. Another so-called proof is I Corinthians 3:12-15 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=KJV&passage=I+Corinthians+3:12-15), which speaks of one's works being tested by fire. But this is a testing of one's works, not a burning of one's soul; and it refers to what will take place on the judgment day, not in some intermediate state. Every other passage used is as forced and misused as the one in I Corinthians.

Further, Rome's doctrine would deprive believers of the blessed Word of God that gives them (us!) that sweet assurance of glory directly upon the experience of death, passages such as John 5:24 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=KJV&passage=John+5:24): "He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life." Notice - "… and cometh not into judgment." As Paul declares, for the believer to be "absent from the body" is to be "at home with the Lord" (II Cor. 5:8 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=KJV&passage=II+Cor+5:8)).

But centrally, as with all of Rome's major doctrinal errors, her teaching of purgatory is a direct assault upon the gospel of Christ crucified, and the power, value, and full sufficiency of His atoning sacrifice for sin. The "once for all" character of Christ's death and suffering is mutilated and slandered (cf. Heb. 9:12, 26-28 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=KJV&passage=Heb+9:12,26-28) and 10:14, 18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2010:14,%2018&version=9)). As the apostle John declares, "The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin" (I John 1:7 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=KJV&passage=I+John+1:7)). Christ Jesus died exactly so that we would not be as those characterized by a "… certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation" (Heb. 10:27 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=KJV&passage=Heb+10:27)).

In the name of the gospel, and the full sufficiency of Christ's atonement for everyone who believeth, the dreadful fiction of purgatory must be denounced and dismissed. Rome ought to pay special heed to the scathing words of her first pope, the apostle Peter, to Simon the magician who also thought spiritual things could be purchased with money. "Thy money perish with thee…" (Acts 8:20 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=KJV&passage=Acts+8:20)).



Rome's Dreadful Doctrine of Purgatory (http://rsglh.org/romes.dreadful.doctrine.of.purgatory.htm)

Abi
04-23-2008, 07:20 PM
Where do all the lost souls go? Those who did not or have not known the teachings of Jesus. Those who lived a life serving others, and were judged by others of being of a sound mind and of good character, but were not followers of the teaching of Jesus?

CoreIssue
04-23-2008, 09:51 PM
Where do all the lost souls go? Those who did not or have not known the teachings of Jesus. Those who lived a life serving others, and were judged by others of being of a sound mind and of good character, but were not followers of the teaching of Jesus?
God gave every human who has ever lived the Law of Conscience.

Those who do not hear of Jesus are judged by that Law. As Paul says they know a level of truth and how the comply to that truth is what God looks at.

All sin. But accountability is for those who know sin is sin.

The lost go to Hell. They do not cease to exist or go into eternal sleep as some believe.

Abi
04-24-2008, 01:42 AM
Thanks for your answer.

My next question is one that I have found difficult to answer and it goes like this.

I live a good decent life and when I die, then what ever awaits me so be it, I have found no need to be religious or spiritually minded.
The person is an agnostic.

Another person has lived a righteous Christian life.

Are they judged the same?

CoreIssue
04-24-2008, 09:18 AM
Thanks for your answer.

My next question is one that I have found difficult to answer and it goes like this.

I live a good decent life and when I die, then what ever awaits me so be it, I have found no need to be religious or spiritually minded.
The person is an agnostic.

Another person has lived a righteous Christian life.

Are they judged the same?
Both these persons know of Christ and can know more. They have a duty to learn.

So both, as regards salvation, are judged by have they repented by faith through grace.

The Agnostic is going to Hell. They have not turned to Christ as savior and lean on them self.

If the one claiming the righteous life has repented by grace, they go to Heaven. If their perception of righteous is keeping law, works or such, then they are leaning on them self, not Christ, and see their own lives as worthy of salvation and thus go to Hell because they are their own god and savior.

The Bible is very clear, good works come from repentance and salvation, they do not provide salvation. Those who work for salvation are working for themselves. Those who work due to salvation are working for Christ and others.



If the one who has lived the claimed righteous life has, they go to Heaven

Abi
04-24-2008, 12:48 PM
Your reply and comment is most appreciated.

Leaning on oneself can lead to being a God unto yourself, which is wrong.

GOD helps those who help themselves, always give praise to GOD and not to the ego of self.

I believe I have got the message now.

Peace be with you.

Abi

CoreIssue
04-24-2008, 01:55 PM
Your reply and comment is most appreciated.

Leaning on oneself can lead to being a God unto yourself, which is wrong.

GOD helps those who help themselves, always give praise to GOD and not to the ego of self.

I believe I have got the message now.

Peace be with you.

Abi
Excellent! :tiphat:

a.baker
04-25-2008, 05:19 AM
I am sorry if my questions are derailing the thread in anyway and if they are feel free to move them. The whole Catholic religion is really really bothering me. Why do they pray to Mary? What is Mass? Whats up with all the rituals and standing up and sitting down and the robes? And why do they not see the statues as idols? Why do they need a rossery or little cross they carry around in their pocket? Why do they make a hand movement of a cross on their chest before they pray? Why don't they read the bible? And why do they feel they cannot confess their sins to God themselves in private?!! Whats up with the Pope and his staff? Why is he visiting places lately? So many more questions I have and if you are a Catholic and read this it would be great to help me better understand why one does these things. But please anyone with answers to these specific questions please help me understand why they do these things.

CoreIssue
04-25-2008, 01:49 PM
If Sid thinks it does any harm, it can be split.

Sid or one of the other ex-Catholics can answer your RCC questions better than I can.

a.baker
04-26-2008, 03:15 AM
This is it right here; don't question, just do and follow and be a good person. That way they can have the control. But those things still bother me even though we know thats what it boils down too. I guess I want to better understand a Catholics perspective of these details so next time I talk to someone who is Catholic maybe I can help them want to start questioning what they are following.

This one lady from work said that her aunt has these Catholic statues in her yard and one time her aunt was watching her kids. She came to pick them up and found out that her aunt made her kids kneel to a statue and pray to it; I think it was one of Mary she said. She said that freaked her and her husband out so they stopped going to church or Mass (from what I understand). But she denies a form is a statue/idol , she thinks it's only a statue/idol if you pray to it. I think God speaks very clearly in the OT on these things. But they still believe in the Catholic religion, think as long as they are good people and thats how they were raised... they have no want to read the bible. They think it's unnecessary.

Chrystalwuzhere
04-26-2008, 02:20 PM
The RCC is steeped in mysticism and idolatry. They have to have their rituals, icons, apparitions, relics, etc. I read an article this past week that said that they dug up Padre Pio (a catholic mystic), so that catholics could view the body, and pray at it.

For more information, do research on the beginning of the RCC. It will explain a lot.

Church@therock
08-01-2008, 11:37 PM
i agree with some of ur ideas i would like to kno more about wat u have 2 say about this topic.