Oil and electricity

[InTheWind]

I wonder if all these lefties and anti ever think that if we pull out of Iraq that Iran will move in and control the oil and set up terror groups there.
The price of oil will sky rocket and we will suffer because of all the tree huggers and Dems that won`t let us build refineries or drill for oil.
I`m thinking Iran is going to be the key to a bunch of bad in the near future.
Also anyone hear about a pulse weapon where they launch a satellite over this country and it releases protons and knocks out everything electrical immediately.

[CoreIssue]

That whole Middle East is pivotal to us. And very up in the air.

As for the pulse cannons, that tech has been around for awhile. Just getting better and a lot more refined.

A detonation of a nuke, high in the atomosphere, could knock out most, if not all, of electronic systems in the country.

We are a lot more fragile than many think.

[kay-gee]

Then I'll have to head back to Canada. Nobody picks on us up there. We're just too darn nice!!!!!!! All the best.........

[CoreIssue]

Then I'll have to head back to Canada. Nobody picks on us up there. We're just too darn nice!!!!!!! All the best.........
Really?

Canada is having problems with illegals and such. Don't kid yourself.

The land of PC and censorship.

[Sid]

Also anyone hear about a pulse weapon where they launch a satellite over this country and it releases protons and knocks out everything electrical immediately.


EMP [electromagnetic pulse] is for real.

Here is a thread that might shine some light. (http://p105.ezboard.com/fxcatholicfrm31.showMessage?topicID=86.topic)

[InTheWind]

Kinda scary isn`t it, i`m glad we are somewhat self sufficient.

[kay-gee]

Oil and electricity: Canada is self sufficient in both. You are right though about illegals. But even the illegals have no reason to hate us because we offer them cradle to grave social netting and free health care. Who wants to rock a gravy boat like that. Now concerning PC and sensorship, You are right again but let Me say this. We still have more religious freedom than the USA with your ACLU and the like. We still have crosses in public places and our military chaplains can pray any way they want. In some provinces religious schools are publicly funded. What puzzles me about USA is you're overseas ridding countries of religiously intolerant governments (which I whole heartedly agree) but at the same time allow a taliban-like organization like the ACLU to operate with-in your own borders stripping Americans of their rights to religious beliefs. This I don't unerstand. Please offer some insight on this. Thanks...All the best.........

[CoreIssue]

Oil and electricity: Canada is self sufficient in both.
Not really. Some of Canada's electricity comes from the US.
You are right though about illegals. But even the illegals have no reason to hate us because we offer them cradle to grave social netting and free health care. Who wants to rock a gravy boat like that.
Tell that to the Muslims when they get big enough in any area to want Sharia Law.
Now concerning PC and sensorship, You are right again but let Me say this. We still have more religious freedom than the USA with your ACLU and the like. We still have crosses in public places and our military chaplains can pray any way they want. In some provinces religious schools are publicly funded.
Which schools and religions?

Those that are accepting of homosexuality, equality of religions and such?

We have heard a lot of complaints about Biblical conservatives being silenced up there.

Yep. We have a ton of problems here on the issues. But still have more Biblical 'Christians' than Canada, by far.
What puzzles me about USA is you're overseas ridding countries of religiously intolerant governments (which I whole heartedly agree) but at the same time allow a taliban-like organization like the ACLU to operate with-in your own borders stripping Americans of their rights to religious beliefs.
We are not ridding countries of groups based on religion. We are ridding them of those whose who want to kill us or hurt us.

To hurt us is to hurt Canada. Your national security is based on us being a buffer for you guys.

Your military is, to say the least, small and impotent.

And while we have problems, what allows the ACLU are rights no possessed in Canada.

Like freedom of news stations that don't agree with the government and so on.
This I don't unerstand. Please offer some insight on this. Thanks...All the best.........
Unfortunately, we have too many liberals here. But the Constitution bars them from going to the extents the liberal Canadian government has gone.

And liberals have used gimmics to take some freedoms away that we are trying to win back.

Being the End Times, I don't see it happening. I see the world on a continuous slide.

[kay-gee]

Boy, CORE ISSUE! there is a lot of grist for the discussion mill. I appreciate your comments and thank-you for them. Let me comment briefly on each of these many points. 1) ELECRICITY; We do indeed share power grids with USA but in a crisis we could easily produce all the power needed. The province of Qubec is the largest producer of hydro power in the world and we have 1/10 of your population. 2) SHARIA LAW There was talk once of introducing some form of Sharia law in the province of Ontario but cooler heads prevailed and the motion was defeated WHEW!!! 3)SCHOOLS Both the public and the Catholic school systems are funded the provincial governments. (I'm aware of your hatred for RCism) personally, it may be done that way because it's an ages old arrangement and it helps to appease the French contingent. Students of both systems are free to openly discuss faith and participate in Christmas activities. 4) No one can really be silenced... Just shout louder! Whether folks listen or not is another matter. 5) Of course there are more biblical Christians in USA. You have 10 times the population! Do not underetimate the zeal and dedication of true Canadian Christians. 6) SMALL MILITARY correct again! Our government prefers instead to invest in it's citizens. When we need medical help we are not at the mercy of greedy insurance companies. We have social programs envied the world over fuelling immigration here.7) ACLU we do not have them persay but we do have the NDP. They pose a worse threat because they are a party with members sitting in the house where legislation is actually made. 8) THE CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp) A left leaning bias is there for sure. It's a joke. Few Canadians even watch the CBC for anything but hockey games. 9) GOVERNMENT We are currently led by a Conservative government headed up by Steven Harper. He is trying to make changes. GOD bless him. The problem is, He has a "minority" government meaning that the Liberals and NDP could gang up and take him down. Could I ask you for prayers for him. He is a bastion of hope for all Canadian Christians. 10) The world is in a slide but when has it not been. I doubt it was any better when Atilla the Hun and those cats were roaming the Earth. Be happy and try to enjoy the best you can. There, I hope I have shed some light on a few of these matters. In closing let me make another statement about Canada. We have one of the highest standards of living in the world. We share the worlds longest UNDEFENDED border with you guys and you don"t see hordes of us rushing south to be Americans. That is good ; it allows you to focus on your other borders. We have a saying that those illegals are heading for Canada but USA is in the way. PS Canada specializes in winter and taxes therefore; I'm residing in the BAHAMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!All the Best.............................................. .........................

[CoreIssue]

Just 5 points:
1. when the Muslims get strong enough they want give a hoot what you guys vote.
2. If it wasn't for us your military would not be small. We do enable you to be small.
3. Yep, Catholic schools. Which bear no resemblance to, say, a Baptist one.
4. I didn't mean more Biblical Christians as pure numbers. I meant as a %.
5. No, it is very different from the past. This is the most Apostate time since the Flood. It goes way beyond just not being Godly, but to being anti-God and becoming gods themselves.

Are you an Amillennialist, by any chance? That is the largest group that somehow doesn't see this as the Biblical Great Apostacy time, per prophecy and reality.

Not trying to be growly or negative. Just accurate.

[kay-gee]

AM I A WHAT???? Core, I can't even pronounce the word, much less tell you what it means!!!!!!! I am a Christian Optimist. I have one mandate really: To occupy until HE comes and to rejoice in the LORD always, again I say rejoice! (phil 4:4) All the best.......

[CoreIssue]

:scratch: Christian optimist?

What exactly is that? One who disregards the prophecies coming true all around us to see a brighter 'potential?'

Can you elaborate?

[kay-gee]

All about me I see wars and rumours of wars, not prophesies being fulfilled. This world has always been circling the drain. I'm sure there were folks living in Nazi occupied Europe who were convinced that prophecy was being fulfilled and the world was as bad as it could get. If televangelism was then what it is today, these preachers would of being saying all kinds of stuff stirring up fear, cause thats what they are doing now (and oh how the $$ rolls in!) Here are people like us (meaning you and I) sitting back in our arm-chairs of affluence hollering away about how bad everything is. I doubt that any one of us has ever seen BAD. Turn off the media for a while cause it's making us sour and hateful. Tune out of the junk for a while and start to see how GOD has immeasurably blessed us. All the best.............

[CoreIssue]

As I said elsewhere, you are obviously not a student of prophecy.

You see no prophecies being fulfilled? How about:
1. Vast increase in knowledge.
2. Restoration of Israel. The generation that sees this restoration will see the Second Coming.
3. The reforming of the Roman Empire as the EU (Ten Toes of Daniel and Horns of John).
4. Great apostacy. As seen in the churches abandoning sound doctrine in droves.

That is but a few.

There is no prophecy left unfilled, that has to occur, before Christ can return except for the Rapture and Trib events.

[InTheWind]

I believe what makes now different than any time before is Jesus said when you see all these things happening together know that I am right at the door.
We are seeing all the things that have happened in the past occurring at the same time, plus they are getting more sevear and closer together which is another prophecy.
Don`t worry if we are at the time right before the rapture you`ll know it soon, you`ll either be gone or you will see the AC come and it will get better for a short time, don`t be deceived.

[kay-gee]

Yes knowledge has increased. There are now 5 billion people on the planet. more folks dicovering and inventing stuff. We are living in the information age but so what? If The LORD tarries another 1000 years, there'll be even more knowledge! A national Israel was basically set up by the allies out of sympathy because of the holocaust. It is hardly "restored" fighting tooth and nail for a few square miles, a fraction of the acreage controlled by the Jews at the time of Solomon. ANOTHER SUPPOSITION not bible fact!! THE ROMAN EMPIRE IS NOT REFORMING. Rome never really went anywhere. It just switched from globalization as a state to globalization as a religious organization. If you're talking about the EU, wrong again. the capital is BRUSSELS. Italy (and much less Rome)play a small part in it. I'm sorry to here that folks are leaving sound doctrine in droves from the religious groups of which you are familiar. I am a member of the Church that Jesus built (Matt16:18) and we are doing just fine thanks, appreciate your concern! All The Best...........

[CoreIssue]

Yes knowledge has increased. There are now 5 billion people on the planet. more folks dicovering and inventing stuff. We are living in the information age but so what?
So what? It is a sign of the Rapture and Second Coming to occur soon. In the generation that sees the restoration of Israel.

You keep dismissing that, which means you are dismissing God's own words and promises.
If The LORD tarries another 1000 years, there'll be even more knowledge!
A weak argument.
A national Israel was basically set up by the allies out of sympathy because of the holocaust. It is hardly "restored" fighting tooth and nail for a few square miles, a fraction of the acreage controlled by the Jews at the time of Solomon. ANOTHER SUPPOSITION not bible fact!!
Semantical game playing.

Your qualifiers are not Biblical. And in fact shows more ignorance since it says Israel will be restored EXACTLY under those conditions.

No suppostion at all. Literal words of the Bible.
THE ROMAN EMPIRE IS NOT REFORMING. Rome never really went anywhere. It just switched from globalization as a state to globalization as a religious organization. If you're talking about the EU, wrong again. the capital is BRUSSELS. Italy (and much less Rome)play a small part in it.
So, you are oblivious to what Daniel and John said on these issues. That is your loss.

What the capital is now means squat. It will be Rome during the Trib.

Your spiritualizing the verses is your problem.
I'm sorry to here that folks are leaving sound doctrine in droves from the religious groups of which you are familiar. I am a member of the Church that Jesus built (Matt16:18) and we are doing just fine thanks, appreciate your concern! All The Best...........
I have always been non-denominational. A strictly Bible only person.

No, contrary to what you are trying to say, you are very PC and non literal.

[InTheWind]

I am a member of the Church that Jesus built (Matt16:18) and we are doing just fine thanks, appreciate your concern


Math. 16-18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Forgive my ignorance but what church denomination might that be? :scratch:

[kay-gee]

Did HE or did HE not say in this verse that He would build a church? He did not build a denomination. If Even Hell cannot prevail against it then it still has to be here. Follow? Through out the rest of the new testament it is referred to by the writers as THE church, THE body, THE kingdom, THE faith, THE bride. JESUS established HIS church and HE is its Only authority and head. Any religious group designed some other way is NOT HIS CHURCH PERIOD!!!!!!! That alone eliminates about a gazillion denominations! IF you were to take an apple seed and keep it for a thousand years then plant it you will still get an apple tree.Not a pear tree, not an orange tree, but an apple tree! The church that follows the pattern laid down by Jesus and the apostles is HIS church, regardless of the century we are in. To say other wise is to say that HELL has prevailed against her,making HIM a liar! Don't go there!!!!!! Think about it. All the best.

[CoreIssue]

I know what ITW was getting at.

Does the CHURCH have a recognized name, on this earth, or not?

Simple and valid question.

We have had many come on and say Church, Church, Church, but really only meant one group name, with the others outside of it not Church.

Hope that helps you understand the question as meant.

[InTheWind]

Did HE or did HE not say in this verse that He would build a church? He did not build a denomination. If Even Hell cannot prevail against it then it still has to be here. Follow? Through out the rest of the new testament it is referred to by the writers as THE church, THE body, THE kingdom, THE faith, THE bride. JESUS established HIS church and HE is its Only authority and head. Any religious group designed some other way is NOT HIS CHURCH PERIOD!!!!!!! That alone eliminates about a gazillion denominations! IF you were to take an apple seed and keep it for a thousand years then plant it you will still get an apple tree.Not a pear tree, not an orange tree, but an apple tree! The church that follows the pattern laid down by Jesus and the apostles is HIS church, regardless of the century we are in. To say other wise is to say that HELL has prevailed against her,making HIM a liar! Don't go there!!!!!! Think about it. All the best.

Yep just a simple question, didn`t mean to upset ya. :):

[kay-gee]

OF COURSE THE NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH HAD A NAME!!!!!!! I'm a little surpried that the combined bible scholarism of CTZ needs to be told that. Here they are: The body of Christ (COL1:18,24) (Eph4:12,1:22-23) The House of God (1tim3:15) The Church of God(1cor1:2)chuch of the firstborn(heb12:23) church of the LORD (acts20:28) Household of Faith(gal6:10) Kingdom of GOD (acts28:23,31) Kingdom of GODs dear son(col1:13) Churches of Christ (rom16:16,matt16:18). However folks can take a biblically authorized name, put it out front and still not be following the pattern, but I've answered your question to the best of my ability. Anything I say on this forum is out of love and total respect for you guys. I am not afraid to talk about GODs truth. All the best....................

[kay-gee]

The church is not some trivial after thought in GODs plan. To place so much emphasis on restoration of Israel and these other "bizzare" things and have so little regard for HIS church, frankly astounds me. From the beginning GODs plan was to call a people to himself that would have a spiritual relationship with HIM not a fleshly national one. If so, us Gentiles are screwed!!! The entire old testament is pointing toward the relization of that "people". What organism on earth could possably have fulfilled that prophetic progression but the CHURCH!!!! It began in Jerusalem and flowed to the nations exactly as the prophets said it would. To await some sort of Physical kingdom on this earth is absurd! Thats exactly what the Jewish leaders of Jesus' time were looking for. YOU want to talk about "students of prophesy", these guys knew them forward and backwards. Yet they were so eager to read THEIR desires into the Word that they totally missed the boat! Why do you people in this century INSIST on making the same mistakes. And please do not denegrate or condesend the LORDs church. HE paid for it In HIS BLOOD!!!! All the best.................

[InTheWind]

To await some sort of Physical kingdom on this earth is absurd!


I don`t think anyone was implying there would be a kingdom here on earth now, there will be when Christ returns and sets up His kingdom after the tribulation period.
I`m not sure how to take your view, if your into feel good religion and that everything is great and that it will get better instead of worse you haven`t been watching the news or paying attention to what`s happening or studying prophecy.
I will agree that the church is not a building but all of Gods children gathered together.
Jesus said that we would know that He is at the door by the signs happening in the world and i believe by how the HS lets us feel it in our hearts. To say that there is no need or reason for prophecy is absurd and ignoring part of the Bible.
Best to ya.:):

[CoreIssue]

Sounds like kay-gee let the cat out of the bag.

Of course there is no significance to Israel being restored for those who believe the Church has replaced Israel, with it to never be of importance again.

And of course such doesn't put much merit in the Rapture, Trib, MK and so on. The believe it is here now.

If wrong, it sure isn't because of what has been said. But kay-gee most assuredly sounds like one into either Post-Mill or Amil beliefs.

If wrong, kay-gee, you are going to have to be more plain spoken. But so far you do sound lik one attempting to avoid answering pointedly.

You totally misunderstand covenant bodies.

Israel and Church are two distinctly different covenants.One in force from Moses to the Cross and from the Rapture to the end of time. One in force between the other two.

And very forgetful that before Israel, there was no covenant body.

One does not have to be within a covenant body to be saved. Completely different issue.

The Body of Christ is NOT Church alone. It is Church PLUS Israel. Co-heir(S), not one heir.

Each will exist for eternity. Israel, Wife of God (Father). Church, Bride of Christ (God incarnate, Second Person.)

Rather than demeaning, to understand this, it is beautiful. Shows the provisioning and plan of God in work and progression.

No, understanding prophecy enriches our lives and our abilties to deal with others. It doesn't hinder anything.

One who thinks that does so because they lack know of, and insight into, what it is all about.

[kay-gee]

Dear in the wind. I hope you're having a great day. I assume from your logo that you're a motorcycling man. I'd like to ask you a few questions about that sometime. I basically need to buy a bike for down here and being a novice, I could use some suggestions. Perhaps we can hook up on another thread where the topics are a little lighter. You seem by your tone to be a gentleman, but I have to defend the Bible when I see docrines that aer not correct. Here comes the cruise missle! Are you ready? THE CHURCH AND THE KINGDOM ARE ONE AND THE SAME! I looked out my window just now and by all indications...yes I'm still on earth. You see, I too am a "student of prophesy" but also a student of "fulfilment" and the prophesies are completely filled in CHRIST and HIS KINGDOM which came to earth on the day of pentecost 33 AD and will be here till JUDGMENT DAY,not a moment sooner or later!!! This is no pre-concieved notion of mine. It is plainly what THE BIBLE TEACHES! ON the other note, it only seems worse now simply because of the bombardment of news that we are exposed to in this Hi-tech modern age. Please ITW, don't let newscasts, and Israel and all that stuff complicate SIMPLE SOLID BIBLE DOCRINE! Love ya like a brother. I pray someday we will be! All the best.............

[InTheWind]

but I have to defend the Bible when I see docrines that aer not correct.


I agree with you but remember debate works both way, preaching and ignoring proof of correction is not allowed.
I would hope you understand that and would be glad to talk bikes with you sometime.:):

[kay-gee]

Mr CORE ISSUE. This is twice in one day. I need some help. I want to be able to pull down quotes like you guys do. In your last post you made several points and I would like to respond to them in a systematic fashion with BIBLE verses. If you want to take this to the level of a BIBLE study then I am willing and able. You have made some statesments that are simply erroneous and I feel I have to respond. I am not a post this or pre that or anything, simply one who believes in the simple and clear message of the BIBLE. If IT taught the things that you seem to be claiming, then I am all for it! But It does not and I have to speak up. I know you are well known and respected on this site, no less by me, but I do have to address these issues. Thank-you for your patience with me. All the best.

[CoreIssue]

No. I have not made any false claims.

The Kingdom is NOT Church alone, in example. It includes OT and MK Israel and those that came before Israel, who were neither Church or Israel.

Side menu contains links to online Bibles and the Interlinear for definitions. Wrap them in the quote function and you can post nice and clean.

Such as:
Ephesians 3
6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Not the same heir, but heirs together.
Foundation of the NJ is the Apostles. Gates are Israel. 24 Elders before the Throne of God are Israel. Bride with Christ is Church.

79th Week of Daniel is future. To Israel, not Church.

In Revelation the Woman is Israel, not Church. The 12 Tribes are Israel, not Church. Revelation 3:10 says the Church will be gone. Very next presentation the 7 church lampstands are gone and the two lampstands, the Two Witnesses, are now ON the earth.

Temple of Ezekiel has never existed yet. It is the MK Temple.

Covenant of Abraham says the land will be fulfilled through his physical descendents. Ain't happened yet, but in the OT prophecies, it will happen future.

And on and on.

Yep, sure sounds like you are into Replacement Theology.

[kay-gee]

Mr. CORE ISSUE Quick question - What is "replacement theology"? I need a definition to understand how you are categorizing me. All the best......

[CoreIssue]

Mr. CORE ISSUE Quick question - What is "replacement theology"? I need a definition to understand how you are categorizing me. All the best......
It means that Church has assumed all the promise given to Israel because they failed to keep the 'deal.'

So, whenever one reads a prophetic promise to Israel, you substitute Church.

It means that Israel will never be restored as covenant nation. Church is the one and only covenant, holding everyone every born and saved by God.

All you have said so far points to this position.

Do you believe Israel will ever be restored as God's covenant nation, with the Church removed by the Rapture, as in being a mortal institute ever again?

I don't mean eternal glorified flesh. I mean on this earth in this earthly mortal flesh. Will there be a time when Israel, not Church, is God's operative covenant body on this planet?

And no, it does not mean Gentiles will not be saved. They were most assuredly saved during OT Israel.

[kay-gee]

Did you know that in the entire BIBLE, There is only one promise made to man by GOD that is completely without condition? I challenge you you to tell me what that is. It will provide a good spring board for what I am about to teach you! To get anywhere in these discussions, we need some sort of systematic approach. Lets first off, settle the issue of GODs PROMISES. I pray we can all benefit from these talks.....All the best............

[InTheWind]

Kay-Gee, your starting to preach which is against the rules, Core asked you several questions and you have refused to answer. :(

[CoreIssue]

A pattern is clear here.

No more rhetoric, kay-gee. Start posting Biblical proofs to back you statement or don't post them. And answer questions.

You are violating rules that have been on this board from the beginning.

If you have not read them, I advise you to do so.

[kay-gee]

Don't you ever worry. Got all kinds of verses but what does it matter, cause in the end folks with pre-concieved doctrines have a way of skirting them and twisting them. (they have to in order to cling to their beliefs. One popular one I've found with CORE is the throwing back of a scripture in my face as Semantic, or word playing. That's not 2 way bible discussion. Thats simply warding off threats to a belief system, the way one swaps away mosquitoes! I too am a student of the scriptures. Some peole think that they are the only ones that got it all figured out. All others be damned! Now, that is off my chest, I shall proceed. Silly Me, thinking that one simple question would be an excellant way to kick off an organized and methodical discussion. I will reply as best I can. Church did not assume anything. Church is the fulfillment of Israel(Gen28:14)-(1Pet2:9-10) (heb10:10) blood of christ once for all! Why would GOD revert back to an inferior system of sacrificing animals, as would be part and parcel of a "restored Israel"? To claim this is to say Jesus' blood was not quite good enough ABSURD! A restored Israel would require a temple. What kind of house made by human nands can GOD live in? HE's told us that! He is desiring a temple built of "living stones" (1Pet2:5). Obviously the Church of Jesus Christ. He is it's cornerstone (vs:7) this passage quotes prophesy but shows it's fulfillment as well. If all GOD wanted was earthly Israel (descendants of Abraham) He could make them out of rocks!(Matt3:9) When the LORD comes to take away His church (1thess4:16-18) that will be it! If there is more than This,then we are in are the 2nd to last days not the last days as mentioned(2tim3:1)(2Pet3:3). vs 10 to12 indicate destruction. Judgment DAY! Salvation was NOT open to OT gentiles(Rom2:12). (1Thess5:1-3) saying "peace and safety".The complete opposite of what you guys are proclaiming! "like a thief in the night" At a time unknown! vs 1 appears to indicate Paul didn't want us to get to caught up in prophecy, but to concentrate on what we do know. Our faith is fully revealed and sufficient.(Jude:3) (incidentally written before John revelation from Patmos). These are just a few of the reasons why I have decided in my lifes walk with Christ, to focus on HIM and leave the executing of "The Plan" to GOD. I fully expect a comment on these scriptures as to their meanings. If they are simply hurled back in my face, dismissed as uninspired or "rhetorical" Then this discussion is OVER!........All the best......................

[CoreIssue]

Don't you ever worry. Got all kinds of verses but what does it matter, cause in the end folks with pre-concieved doctrines have a way of skirting them and twisting them. (they have to in order to cling to their beliefs. One popular one I've found with CORE is the throwing back of a scripture in my face as Semantic, or word playing. How can I throw anything back when you haven't posted anything?
That's not 2 way bible discussion. Thats simply warding off threats to a belief system, the way one swaps away mosquitoes! I too am a student of the scriptures. Some peole think that they are the only ones that got it all figured out. All others be damned! Now, that is off my chest, I shall proceed. Silly Me, thinking that one simple question would be an excellant way to kick off an organized and methodical discussion. I will reply as best I can. Church did not assume anything.
That was rhetoric.
Church is the fulfillment of Israel(Gen28:14)
14 Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring.
We are not descendents of Abraham. You just spiritualized the verse.
-(1Pet2:9-10)
9But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
Israel is not a people chose from many nations. Israel is ONE nation.
(heb10:10)
10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
As Israel is made Holy through him.
blood of christ once for all!
Yes. But that has nothing to do with what it means to be covenant body for working on the earth.

Those before Israel are neither Israel or Church. Church is not Israel and Israel is not Church. But all are the Body of Christ.
Ephesians 3:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=56&chapter=3&verse=6&version=31&context=verse)
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
ONE Body containing TWO heirs. Not ONE body with ONE heir. Gentiles are heirs WITH Israel. WITH means distinction working together.
Hebrews 8:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=8&verse=8&version=31&context=verse)
But God found fault with the people and said : "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
You accuse me of not reading the Bible? Try reading for meaning here, not what you want to hear.

Is coming is future tense. Hasn't happened yet. That is a fact.

Gentiles are neither the House of Judah or the House of Israel. House means physical descendents.
Revelation 7

3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 8Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Some of that prophecy you don't like.

This is Israel only. No Gentiles.
Revelation 11
1I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles.

Future temple. Jews and Gentiles again separate groups.

The Temple is described in detail in Ezekiel 40-48.
And here is more on the Temple, Jerusalem and Israel durng the MK

Zechariah 14

The LORD Comes and Reigns

1 A day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided among you.

2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%20Zechariah%2014;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23074a)] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
6 On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. 7 It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime—a day known to the LORD. When evening comes, there will be light.
8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea [b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%20Zechariah%2014;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23077b)] and half to the western sea, [c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%20Zechariah%2014;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23077c)] in summer and in winter.
9 The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.
10 The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up and remain in its place, from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses. 11 It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.
12 This is the plague with which the LORD will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. 13 On that day men will be stricken by the LORD with great panic. Each man will seize the hand of another, and they will attack each other. 14 Judah too will fight at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—great quantities of gold and silver and clothing. 15 A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.
16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain. 18 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The LORD [d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%20Zechariah%2014;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23087d)] will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 20 On that dayHOLY TO THE LORD will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the LORD's house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. 21 Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the LORD Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite [e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%20Zechariah%2014;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23090e)] in the house of the LORD Almighty.

I could keep posting a lot more talking about the MK, Israel, Temple and such. But if you don't see it here, you either refuse to see or don't read literally, since it collides with your doctrines.

But, if you try to make these things figurative, then you have to prove we should not read them literally.
Why would GOD revert back to an inferior system of sacrificing animals, as would be part and parcel of a "restored Israel"?
Ask God. He says it will be so.

The answer is that when the stone temple is restored, with Christ in it, the Holy Spirit will no longer indwell believers before death. Thus Law abides until death.
To claim this is to say Jesus' blood was not quite good enough ABSURD!
The OT saints are bathed in Christ's blood, but they had to wait.

The Trib and MK saints will also have to wait to receive it.

We have to received the blood, while still here, because God cannot dwell in an unclean temple. So our spirits have tobe cleansed before we can be his temples.

Not so in the MK. Christ will physically be on the earth in his temple.
A restored Israel would require a temple.
Yep.

And Israel does not become Church in eternity. Nor Church Israel.

It says there is no temple in the New Jerusalem because the Father is present. But the Father is not present during the MK, so a Temple is needed.
What kind of house made by human nands can GOD live in? HE's told us that! He is desiring a temple built of "living stones" (1Pet2:5). Obviously the Church of Jesus Christ.
Applying Church versus to the MK is invalid.

In eternity all will have the Holy Spirit within them. But not during the MK.

You don't like that? Then you don't like what God said he would do.
He is it's cornerstone (vs:7) this passage quotes prophesy but shows it's fulfillment as well.
Of the Church.

And that has nothing to do with Israel.

There is NO prophecy of the Church in the OT. Church is declared a Mystery not revealed until after Christ.
If all GOD wanted was earthly Israel (descendants of Abraham) He could make them out of rocks!(Matt3:9)
A non-point on these issues. You are abusing the verse.
When the LORD comes to take away His church (1thess4:16-18) that will be it!
Really? It says when the Restrainer is taken, which takes the Church as well, the AC will be revealed. And that is followed by 7 years, per Daniel and Revelation. And that is followed by 1,000 years per Revelation and Isaiah, in example.

You are not a student of prophecy saying such things. You are just espousing a feel good doctrine on the future, based on spiritualizing and spinning verses, while disregarding others, to achieve your goal.

Revelation states Satan is bound for 1,000 years, while Christ reigns. Then he will be released, attack Jerusalem, again, and then this earth is destroyed.
If there is more than This,then we are in are the 2nd to last days not the last days as mentioned(2tim3:1)
There is no second to the last days said in the Bible.

2 Timothy 3

Godlessness in the Last Days

1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
That is today.
(2Pet3:3).
Let us kick in more than just that verse.


3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20peter%203;&version=31;#fen-NIV-30517a)]

This is after the MK. Not at the Rapture and Second Coming.

He ain't coming. Hmmm. You are denying the generation that sees the restoration of Israel will see his coming.
vs 10 to12 indicate destruction. Judgment DAY!
After the MK and Short Time of Satan. The White Throne Judgement of the Second Resurrection, which are the damned.
Salvation was NOT open to OT gentiles(Rom2:12). (1Thess5:1-3)
Garbage!

Enoch was a blessed man taken to heaven alive, BEFORE the distinction of Jew and Gentile existed.

Every human being that has lived or will live can be saved. Not all will, but all have it available.
Romans 2
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Mechelzidek was not a Jew. But was a Priest King of God superior to Abraham and the priesthood of Christ.

God sent Christ to save the whole world, if they would have him, not a portion thereof. And not available by time frames.

Abhorent and unloving to say God would allow people to be born with no hope of salvation.
saying "peace and safety".The complete opposite of what you guys are proclaiming!
Get it right.

It says the world will be saying peace and safety when there is none. It says they will say peace and safety, as in the days of Noah and Lot, then sudden destruction will fall on them.
"like a thief in the night" At a time unknown! vs 1 appears to indicate Paul didn't want us to get to caught up in prophecy, but to concentrate on what we do know.
Garbage. Paul said only the Father knows so be constantly ready and anticipating the Great Hope of his coming.
Our faith is fully revealed and sufficient.(Jude:3) (incidentally written before John revelation from Patmos).
But we are still commanded to study, grow and be ready with an answer for those who ask. And to test all claims and reject what is wrong or unsound doctrine.

Your stuff on Gentiles could not be saved and forget about prophecy is unsound.
These are just a few of the reasons why I have decided in my lifes walk with Christ, to focus on HIM and leave the executing of "The Plan" to GOD.
So much for being ready with an answer, anticipating his coming and studying, then.
I fully expect a comment on these scriptures as to their meanings. If they are simply hurled back in my face, dismissed as uninspired or "rhetorical" Then this discussion is OVER!........All the best......................
I gave you verses to answer, not just comments with a single verse here and there with a lot of commentary following.

You cannot just dismiss the verses I gave that refute you. They clearly are prophecy and clearly are Israel, not Church.

[InTheWind]

Don't you ever worry. Got all kinds of verses but what does it matter, cause in the end folks with pre-concieved doctrines have a way of skirting them and twisting them.


:scratch: OK

[kay-gee]

Are these scriptures open for zooming in on or are they locked in forever. I feel there is no point in continuing to try and change each others beliefs. You are obviously "entrenched" as am I. To do justice to a topic as huge as this, Requires the study of massive amounts of scripture, both OT and NT. Not able to do so in an arena such as this. For one, I lack the computor "savvy" of you pros. Takes me a long time to even get a little info out. I'm willing to put this to bed. I don't believe the LORD is being served by me playing scripture verse football with people over internet. This matter concludes with First Timothy 2 vs 1-8. Please view this as a ceasefire and not as a concession on my part. In conclusion, if my cheerful outlook is viewed as "bad religion" or as a threat to CTZ in some way, then I'm sorry about that too. I've been cruelly attacked since I arrived, but thats OK, This is kag-gee turning a cheek. Goodbye, Good luck........ALL the best............

[kay-gee]

I slipped up. That should be First Timothy 1 vs 4-7 All the best.............................

[CoreIssue]

Being cheerful has nothing to do with it. Being correct is the issue.

All I can say is that if you don't want to answer the verses given, in various places, in repsonse to your claims, you don't have to debate it. But neither can you continue to espouse your positions unless you are willing to answer challenges Biblically.

We simply cannot tolerate preaching here. It is destructive. Too many pile on the board preaching at each other, never listening or answering.

Confusing seekers and young Christians is destructive. You HAVE to be able to back what is said, reply to what is challenged of you, and so on. One who doesn't is an author of confusion, and that is not Biblically acceptable.

So, no, if you don't want to debate, just don't espouse positions as if fact and not open to challenge.

There are plenty of areas of the board, in Chat and Prayer, in example, where debate really isn't welcome. Or preaching. ;)

[kay-gee]

Why don't we just hussle and become less dependant on oil, and find more ways of providing electricity. Maybe the knowledge is here but not the will. Don't know. all the best................

[CoreIssue]

Why don't we just hussle and become less dependant on oil, and find more ways of providing electricity. Maybe the knowledge is here but not the will. Don't know. all the best................
The knowledge isn't there.

On another site, local to where I live, we have discussed this at length. I posted a link showing the pros and cons of each technology, and the cost.

Currently petroleum gasoline just isn't replacable. Even though they have been experimenting for over 30 years now.

Every alternative has a down side, as in hybrids are disasters on the battery and and electricity generation side. It would require 73% of the US fields capacity to produce enough to fuel the country, which leaves food and livestock feed high and dry, hydrogen has major containment issues, natural gas is the main heating fuel and so on.

Yep. We need something. But it isn't there yet.

[kay-gee]

Then maybe we should figure out how to go farther on the fuel we do have. more efficient engines. All the best.............

[CoreIssue]

Then maybe we should figure out how to go farther on the fuel we do have. more efficient engines. All the best.............
Seeing you got banned, I will still reply.

More fuel efficient means smaller, lighter weight with small engines.

That means if you are in any kind of accident, you are toast.

[kay-gee]

I'm already on the cutting edge. I own a Smart Car. Highly efficient a very safe for its size. All the best..........

[CoreIssue]

A glorified golf cart at $35,000.00.

Hmmm.

I can see it would be ok where you are for general running around.

As a regular car, here, never.

[kay-gee]

35,ooo. What? I you seriously telling me thats what they're charging for a Smart car where you live? They are available in USA now I believe. It certainly is not a multi-purpose vehicle but so often I see these humongus SUVs on the hi-way (in Canada) with one person in it anyhow. A ton and a half of machinery moving to get one person to work. No wonder oil is getting to be scarce? The smart car is great for just me and 1 passenger. Easy as pie to manuver and park in the city. I've calculated up to 80 mpg hiway at 65 mph. You're lucky to get that on a small motorcycle. Beautiful car really, and the centre of attention. 3 cyl. Mercedes diesel engine! Got the convertable. Cute! Check the price, That can't be right...........All the best...........

[CoreIssue]

35,ooo. What? I you seriously telling me thats what they're charging for a Smart car where you live? They are available in USA now I believe.[quote]
Not really. 2008.

The stock car is not legal on the US roads. Does not meet polution and other standards.

Will never meet highway standards.
[quote] It certainly is not a multi-purpose vehicle but so often I see these humongus SUVs on the hi-way (in Canada) with one person in it anyhow.
True. I have never quite understood wanting an SUV.

A van has more room, if you need capacity, in example.
A ton and a half of machinery moving to get one person to work.
Safety.

Light weight cars = scrap metal and dead passenger in an highway accident, way to many times.
No wonder oil is getting to be scarce?
Oil isn't scarce. Refineries are.

The libs, in example, have not allowed a new refinery to be build in the US for about 30 years.

So, one goes off line, due to age. Nothing replaces it.
The smart car is great for just me and 1 passenger. Easy as pie to manuver and park in the city.
As long as you are not shopping.

Hmmm. Snow?
I've calculated up to 80 mpg hiway at 65 mph.
Highway? Yea, right.

On a 70MPH 8 lane or greater highway you are going to drive that?

I don't think so!
You're lucky to get that on a small motorcycle. Beautiful car really, and the centre of attention. 3 cyl. Mercedes diesel engine! Got the convertable. Cute! Check the price, That can't be right...........All the best...........
And that engine is not legal in the US. Pollutes.

The price was from the Smart Car USA site.

[kay-gee]

It aint all a liberal problem. Oil barons are generally pretty conservative! They have a lot to gain by reducing supply and keeping prices high. More about the Smart Car later. All the best...

[kay-gee]

Re: the Smart Car. I need to clear up things concerning this amazing car, as well as some general mis-conceptions about small vehicles. First of all, can a motorcycle be driven on a highway, multi lane or other-wise? If so, then why not a vehicle that is just as heavy and on 4 wheels? The smart Car has it's engine in the back over the drive tires, making it exceptional in snow driving. As far as safety goes, It's only a concern because of huge vehicles!!! Du-uh! If even half of the one person commuters were in Smart Cars, accident deaths would be virtually zero. The Smart works on the principle of an egg. notice the end to end strength of an egg. The body is actually an almond shaped steel cage. In tests they've driven it into brick walls at 60 mph. It bounced away like a ping-pong ball, only losing some plastic panels. also 4 airbags. There was a piece on TV about it a while ago. The pollution thing is sheer non-sense. In the great land of liberty, I can't believe that a 40 hp 3 cyl. diesel engine would be considered a polluter! Take a look at a Mack truck or a bus! We're in the age of bio-diesel now too. I mean C'mon, Lets get real. Canada has the most stringent enviro-standards anywhere and it passed there. I think you got a powerful Oil lobby there, that is threatened by anything progressive. Good ole insular USA!!! You sometimes think you are the only place in the Earth. The Smart Car is widely accepted in Europe and they are every bit as urbanized and populated as the USA. Statistics do not bear out any higher safety risk of the Smart than any other car. I quoted you 80 mpg. That was in imperial gallons. In your gallon that would be roughly 70 mpg. Shes gets 55 in town easily. Now about space. If you're shopping for furniture, don't take the Smart! Other than that, No problem. I have fit a whole set of drums in it (minus passenger). On my way to the Bahamas' I drove to Detroit with all my luggage, with my brother and his luggage and a chop saw in its original box in it. A trip of about 6 hours, cost us roughly $24 (US) in fuel. I miss my little Smart Car. It's gonna have to be my Canadian car, cause the import taxes here are just too high to have it shipped down. I'm gonna get a small motorbike for here. So as you can see, I take energy conservation seriously. All the best..............

[CoreIssue]

Re: the Smart Car. I need to clear up things concerning this amazing car, as well as some general mis-conceptions about small vehicles. First of all, can a motorcycle be driven on a highway, multi lane or other-wise? If so, then why not a vehicle that is just as heavy and on 4 wheels?
Because most cannot do minimum legal speed.

And even those that can cannot meet normal traffic speed.

A motorcycle can.
The smart Car has it's engine in the back over the drive tires, making it exceptional in snow driving.
Excuse me?

I was born and raised in snow country. NO small car, Volkswagon, small sports or any of that size rain could drive in snow. They could not push through or rode up on the snow and their tires were off the road.

Don't even try to tell that vehicle could hand a foot snow fall before the plows are able to get to it.

Plus with the weight factor, they will slide too easily.

You don't see bikes out in the snow, do you?
As far as safety goes, It's only a concern because of huge vehicles!!! Du-uh! If even half of the one person commuters were in Smart Cars, accident deaths would be virtually zero.
Can we say pipe dreaming?

Real family car, there. Plenty of room for shopping, bringing home supplies for doing house repair, garden word and so on. :bigdeal:
The Smart works on the principle of an egg. notice the end to end strength of an egg. The body is actually an almond shaped steel cage. In tests they've driven it into brick walls at 60 mph. It bounced away like a ping-pong ball, only losing some plastic panels. also 4 airbags.
And side impacts? Eggs have no side strength.
There was a piece on TV about it a while ago. The pollution thing is sheer non-sense. In the great land of liberty, I can't believe that a 40 hp 3 cyl. diesel engine would be considered a polluter! Take a look at a Mack truck or a bus!
Which have filter and other type systems in them.
We're in the age of bio-diesel now too.
That is an interesting concept fuel.

Where would one buy it, on the road?
I mean C'mon, Lets get real. Canada has the most stringent enviro-standards anywhere and it passed there. I think you got a powerful Oil lobby there, that is threatened by anything progressive. Good ole insular USA!!!
I read debates on that issue. Canadian diesel does not look that clean to me.
You sometimes think you are the only place in the Earth. The Smart Car is widely accepted in Europe and they are every bit as urbanized and populated as the USA.
Well, what I read said it was a flop in Europe.
Statistics do not bear out any higher safety risk of the Smart than any other car. I quoted you 80 mpg. That was in imperial gallons. In your gallon that would be roughly 70 mpg.
And on research the TOP rating I saw was 62 MPG (Imperial), which is less than 50 MPG, which several other small cars, with more seating capacity, matches.

You forget many people do not just drive around town in the US. Especially in farm country, the drive distance to shop and such is much further and over rougher roads.

Forget that little car in those settings.
Shes gets 55 in town easily. Now about space. If you're shopping for furniture, don't take the Smart! Other than that, No problem. I have fit a whole set of drums in it (minus passenger). On my way to the Bahamas' I drove to Detroit with all my luggage, with my brother and his luggage and a chop saw in its original box in it.
Let everyone look at this car and its specs and judge for themselves.

Smart Car Link (http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/a/padgett46/smart.htm)

All I can say, you guys didn't have much luggage.
A trip of about 6 hours, cost us roughly $24 (US) in fuel. I miss my little Smart Car. It's gonna have to be my Canadian car, cause the import taxes here are just too high to have it shipped down. I'm gonna get a small motorbike for here. So as you can see, I take energy conservation seriously. All the best..............
So do I and many others.

But that car just will not serve my needs. No way.

[kay-gee]

Oh well, just thought I'd share that with you. all the best..............

[CoreIssue]

Oh well, just thought I'd share that with you. all the best..............
I do see places and uses for which it is a great car. Don't get me wrong.

But when you talk about becoming the main kind of car for every day usage, there I have to disagree.

Seems it would be great on islands and such, where you don't get that much traffic or have that great of distances to go. Especially with the cost of importing all that is need.

Where I live is the golf cart capital of the US. We have a complete 'roadway' for carts.

Now, talk about minimizing! :D

A lot of folk, especially elderly and young, use them a lot.

[InTheWind]

You don't see bikes out in the snow, do you?



Not entirely true, i`ve been known in my younger years to have done that but i wasn`t under the influence of the Holy Spirit then. :D

[CoreIssue]

You don't see bikes out in the snow, do you?



Not entirely true, i`ve been known in my younger years to have done that but i wasn`t under the influence of the Holy Spirit then. :D
:swoon: As in slain therein?

[InTheWind]

You don't see bikes out in the snow, do you?



Not entirely true, i`ve been known in my younger years to have done that but i wasn`t under the influence of the Holy Spirit then. :D
:swoon: As in slain therein?

Glad i didn`t die in those days, what watches over ya before your saved a guardian angel or luck? :scratch:

[CoreIssue]

God watches over those who will be his. Makes sure they get there.

[Sid]

Glad i didn`t die in those days, what watches over ya before your saved a guardian angel or luck? :scratch:


ITW:


I would look at it as a combination of dumb luck and stupidity.

Probably the two biggest reasons we survived long enough to grow up.

[InTheWind]

Glad i didn`t die in those days, what watches over ya before your saved a guardian angel or luck? :scratch:


ITW:


I would look at it as a combination of dumb luck and stupidity.

Probably the two biggest reasons we survived long enough to grow up.



:roflmbo: :roflmbo: :roflmbo:

I also believe God knows who are His as Core said. :yowza:

[kay-gee]

Core, I almost fell off my chair when you asked me what do I know about snow? I'm from CANADA, the wintery-est place on the planet (except maybe Siberia) This is the first winter I spent outside of Canada. Believe me I know all about the 6ft drifts and the ice and the sound of dead batteries, and numb, purple fingers, toes, and ears etc.. etc..I've done winter in the city. I've done winter in the country. If the snow is that deep, we don't try driving in it with Smart Car, Bike or anything else! Just lay low till the plows pass by. I think, What gets to me the most is the lack of sunlight and color. I used to get into a depression that I could'nt shake. I've really become a more cheerful person since I spent my first winter in the Bahamas. Seeing the sun and the green and flowers and the sound of birds, does a lot for the soul. I believe God knew what I needed and provided an oppurtunty for me to come here. Tell me of your experience with winter in Georgia. All the best.........

[CoreIssue]

I think you might want to do some research.

I came from the tip of Lake Michigan area. Want to talk about snow?

1 centimeters = 0.393700787 inches

Here (http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/maps/environment/climate/snowcover/snowdepth) is a snowfall chart for Canada.

So, .4 X 100cm = 80" of snow.

Now, Northern Indiana averages 76" per year.

So, think about it. While it can snow anywhere from November to April, the bulk of the snow is in January and February. So it gets clobbered.

6' drifts? Common as dirt.

What slams the 5 miles south of the lake, so heavily, is that Artic Wind comes roaring down Lake Michigan and dumps when it hits the land. And I mean dumps!

I know Canada gets hit. No doubt to it.

But the tip of Lake Michigan is unique.

I worked in a steel mill right on the tip. Literally had equipment I was running freeze up while driving it.

A blast furnace runner, in front of me, at 1,200 degrees and the wind in my back at -90.

Don't miss it. No way.

But now way would ANYONE in that area, in example, get into ANY car that size, during the winter.

I literally have headed for work, with no snow on the ground, driving 5 miles, and been in 3' of snow by the time I got there.

No. The Smart Car cannot handle that kind of conditions. No.

[kay-gee]

No, you are right it would not. Under those conditions I would take the day off. No days pay is worth losing ones life or limb for! Lake Michigan is brutal, I know. The east end of Lake Erie is no picnic either. Always felt sorry for Buffalo (NY) They would would take some awful beatings snow wise, While we in Toronto about an hours drive away would get very little to nothing. Seems to have every thing to do with where you are situated on a lake and wind patterns.Its getting late..........all the best..........

[kay-gee]

$2.79 a gallon eh? must be nice. No wonder your fondness for large vehicles. You can still afford to drive one. By the way, the night we drove down I-75 through Michigan Diesel was $4 and change a gal. The 6 hr trip from Sault ste Marie to Detroit would have cost about 17 dollars by Georgia's price........All the best...........

[CoreIssue]

Don't get me wrong. I wish there were alternatives.

But there isn't.

Electric vehiclesd generate tons of problems with issues in generating the electricity and making and disposing of batteries.

Ethanol drives food price through the ceiling, is less efficient than gas and sucks up water in the manufacturing processes.

And on with each other concept being worked on. They ALL have issues and problems.

[kay-gee]

Man, am I astounded by how much fuel a boat uses. I eventually want to get water-born but I'm gonna have to figure out how to that more efficiently. Where does the energy go when you are essentially sliding on water?............all the best

[CoreIssue]

Man, am I astounded by how much fuel a boat uses. I eventually want to get water-born but I'm gonna have to figure out how to that more efficiently. Where does the energy go when you are essentially sliding on water?............all the best
You don't get traction on water. And it is adhesive in nature.

So, you are overcoming 100% of the boats intertia to get it to move. And then fighting the drag and adhesive forces to keep it moving.

[kay-gee]

I suppose from a cost point of view, sailboat is the way to go. The wind is still free and unlimited. Trouble is, theres so much to know about sailing before you can really get going at it well. Its a science of sorts. I was out to the annual Regatta (sailboat races) this afternoon and noticed just how quickly them things can move with skilled sailors operating them.I gotta get water-born. Theres just too much exploring to do around here. All the best............

[CoreIssue]

I suppose from a cost point of view, sailboat is the way to go. The wind is still free and unlimited. Trouble is, theres so much to know about sailing before you can really get going at it well. Its a science of sorts. I was out to the annual Regatta (sailboat races) this afternoon and noticed just how quickly them things can move with skilled sailors operating them.I gotta get water-born. Theres just too much exploring to do around here. All the best............
Get lazy.

Get a pontoon boat with oars. Do a lot of floating.

[kay-gee]

What could a guy make those out of?........All the best!

[CoreIssue]

What could a guy make those out of?........All the best!
Sealed old metal or plastic drum/barrels/tanks made excellent floats.

The built a platform with plywood, thick sheet plastic, boards or about anything flat.

Put a cover on it. A tent, canvas sheet, etc.

Rails can be plumbing pipe, pvc pipe (should be cheap) or such.

Oars can be old poles, plastic, wood or whatever, with flat paddles attached.

You can build them for practically nothing, if you scavage enough.

[InTheWind]

I was always going to mount a windmill on a pontoon, i think it would work, the windmill would turn and face the the wind . I`d put a paddle wheel on the back.

[CoreIssue]

Interesting idea. Wonder how it would work out?

[InTheWind]

Not sure, seems the world is set up so ya can`t get something for nothing, in a strong wind the resistance of the wind hitting the blades might cancel out the power being produced.
I think it would work, if i lived on a lake i would try it.

[InTheWind]

Which bring to mind another thought, is the human body perpetual motion. It pumps blood non stop, what`s the power source?

[CoreIssue]

Which bring to mind another thought, is the human body perpetual motion. It pumps blood non stop, what`s the power source?
Food. Converted to electrical and chemical energy.

[InTheWind]

Yep your right, can`t get something for nothing always needs a energy source

[InTheWind]

Not sure, seems the world is set up so ya can`t get something for nothing, in a strong wind the resistance of the wind hitting the blades might cancel out the power being produced.
I think it would work, if i lived on a lake i would try it.

To clarify i believe it would work good except when going into the wind then it may gain no ground, or should i say water.

[kay-gee]

ITW, Thats absolutely brilliant. I was thinking paddle wheel direct drive from an electric motor powered by portable generator. The wind-mill is a great idea because no fossil fuel is used at all. One thing I've observed (ocean anyways), is that there is always a breeze over water, if sometimes only slight. It dosen't take much to turn a wind turbine. Could have a series of them to keep voltage strong. Hmmmm, Now I'm intrigued. all the best....

[CoreIssue]

I think some of the big liners and such do have wind mill generators on them. I think.

[InTheWind]

I did build a paddle boat that had a paddle wheel and a very old single cylinder motor, it was way cool. The paddle wheel was attached to the same place a outboard would go so you could raise it up or down, in the up position so it was only in the water a few inches took very little power.
A windmill on a eight foot tower would be very interesting, i would have a direct link from windmill to paddle wheel through a transmission.

[kay-gee]

Dependant on torque I suppose........All the best

[kay-gee]

This latest spat of gas price increases are on account of what exactly? Does anyone know. This place floors me. gas is at 4.97 US Gal here today and nobody seems to even notice. No end of Hemi's and SUVs. Saw I brand new HUMMER here today. Can you imagine? A hummer in a place like this? I'm trying to shake my penny-pinching Canadian mind-set, but it's tough. all the best...........

[CoreIssue]

Oil refineries offline is the problem.

Simple as that.

[CTZonEdit]

There is no motivation for them to refine more. That would create a surplus and drive down profits for them.

There is more than enough crude oil for everyone. The problem is refining it into gasoline. There are not enough refineries, the government wont allow for new ones to be built and the oil companies have no real incentive to refine faster.

And even if they started building one this second it would take a decade for it to be up and running at capacity.

In the ten years it would take to get gas prices back down there must be some technology developed to replace or reduce gas all together. I see nothing promising.

But everyone is just twiddling their thumbs as we continue to use more and more gas.
Look out for this economy to hit a major recession in the meantime.

[kay-gee]

Build the refineriies in Mexico and pipe or truck the finished gasoline north! all the best.......

[CoreIssue]

Build the refineriies in Mexico and pipe or truck the finished gasoline north! all the best.......
We need to be taking back our industries from Mexico and Canada.

Trade is one thing. But having foreign goods considered domestic goods is absurd.

For any country.

[kay-gee]

I meant as a way to circumvent the red tape. Mexico has much more lax enviro-policies. No loss to American economy as it takes little to no manpower to operate a refinery once it is built. All automatic. See how clever I am. I missed my calling. Should have been a politician!.....All the best.....

[CoreIssue]

I meant as a way to circumvent the red tape. Mexico has much more lax enviro-policies. No loss to American economy as it takes little to no manpower to operate a refinery once it is built. All automatic. See how clever I am. I missed my calling. Should have been a politician!.....All the best.....
And then there is reality.

Yep. Political speech, not reality.

[kay-gee]

They wanna run a natural gas pipeline to the Bahamas from Florida. The enviro folks say it will cool the water by ten degrees. Would reek havoc on marine life. How silly. Lets have progress man. Besides I think my scheme is completely viable!...all the best....

[CoreIssue]

They wanna run a natural gas pipeline to the Bahamas from Florida. The enviro folks say it will cool the water by ten degrees. Would reek havoc on marine life. How silly. Lets have progress man. Besides I think my scheme is completely viable!...all the best....
:scratch:

[kay-gee]

There is no easy answer. Either reduse consumption or stop complaining about the high cost. I guess that's what it boils down to.....all the best...

[kay-gee]

what are they blaming the price of crude on now? It's like $5.12 us gallon here now. And the people out there with them monster 200+ boat motors. How are they gonna manage that? Oh I forgot, They are the vacationing american oil barons...LOL

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

what are they blaming the price of crude on now? It's like $5.12 us gallon here now. And the people out there with them monster 200+ boat motors. How are they gonna manage that? Oh I forgot, They are the vacationing american oil barons...LOL

all the best...
Actually, KG, what is driving the price up are the commodities speculators. Nothing to do with availablity.

[InTheWind]

I need to come up with a 100 mpg carburetor, but then i`d come up missing. :(

[kay-gee]

yeah ITW...aint that the truth

all the best...

[a.baker]

To add to what everyone said... I wish it would stay at a consistent price. Why the jump of $.20 up and down 3 different times in a 24 hr. day? I remember when gas would stay the same price for a month at times, except for maybe the occasional 1 to 2 cents.

[CoreIssue]

To add to what everyone said... I wish it would stay at a consistent price. Why the jump of $.20 up and down 3 different times in a 24 hr. day? I remember when gas would stay the same price for a month at times, except for maybe the occasional 1 to 2 cents.
The speculators are driving the prices. Every thing that hits the news changes their bids on the Commodities Market.

[a.baker]

:aah:

[kay-gee]

The wild ups and downs in a day are the local retailers fighting for your business. This happens more in large cities where there is more competition. Back in Toronto, you could get some real bargains once you learned to play the game. Figure out what day of the week and also the time of day or night to fill-up.

all the best..

[kay-gee]

I'm enjoying the little bike...it is geared in kilometers but I calculate it to be getting about 80 mpg...My brother says I can get 90 if I keep it inside the "Econo" range. That's kinda of granny speed but hey I'm trying to do my part.

all the best...

[kay-gee]

I'd dearly love to get the Smart Car down here but man the import is high not to mention shipping. Also I fear the other drivers here
. People back into each other all the time. Hardly see a car here without a ding or dent. I couldn't stand to see my baby treated that way. Also getting service and all that could be a problem too....I have seen a couple of Mercedes Benz around. I guess I could ask them what they do when they need work done.

all the best...

[a.baker]

Yeah even simple fixes on cars these days call for special tools that call for you to bring it to a mechanic.

I heard that gas is going to go up again when it gets warmer outside. I saw Bush talking about trying to lower them to help out the economy.

I am so very thankful for gas and electricity!

[kay-gee]

blessings indeed

all the best...

[kay-gee]

Gotta be honest and say, I get tired of American foreign policy sometimes. For instance, how come they can dictate to The Bahamas where oil must be purchased?
Apparently, the former gov't was going to sign a deal with Venezuela. As a result we could be filling up today at a buck and a half a gallon. Why do your enemies have to be our enemies? Just wondering.

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Gotta be honest and say, I get tired of American foreign policy sometimes. For instance, how come they can dictate to The Bahamas where oil must be purchased?
Apparently, the former gov't was going to sign a deal with Venezuela. As a result we could be filling up today at a buck and a half a gallon. Why do your enemies have to be our enemies? Just wondering.

all the best...
Do we need to help countries like the Bahamas who will take our money then side with our enemies?

[kay-gee]

Take your money? explain please

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Take your money? explain please

all the best...

Aid to Bahamas (http://www.ciponline.org/facts/ba.htm)

[kay-gee]

Oh I see. Flick somebody a couple bucks in aid and then that gives the right to over rule their sovereignty.

all the best...

[CoreIssue]

Oh I see. Flick somebody a couple bucks in aid and then that gives the right to over rule their sovereignty.

all the best...
But okay to take the bucks and then thumb your nose at the giver?

Those bucks were given for REASONS that was signed onto. Don't take then forget.

[DON]

Edited by CoreIssue. This is not an advertising board for other sites.