View Full Version : Dominus Iesus: The RCC Dictates the Terms for Unity
It has been but a short time since Charles Colson, like some modern day Chamberlain alighting from his aircraft, held aloft the ECT and declared, “Peace in our time.” It has been a mere six years; yet the folly of their deeds, apparent to many before,has now been made apparent to all.
We can only conclude that if the evangelicals who signed that notorious document do not denounce the Vatican, then their act was not one of wishful thinking, but willful betrayal. Rome has dropped her mask; the empty ecumenical charade has ended, and therefore it is time for those who love God’s word to sound the alarm in earnest.
As Roman Catholics live it out, the “salvific mysteryin the church” is a long journey through the Sacrifice of the Mass, sacraments, good works, merit, worship of Mary and the saints, etc. One is required to partake of the “salvific mystery” in order to be good enough to die in “sanctifying grace” and then to be saved, or at least, for the majority, to land for a time in purgatory.
The Roman Catholic Church boldly proclaims, as she did during the Inquisition, On the other hand, the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery, are not Churches in the proper sense.
Dominus Iesus: A Kiss of Death for the Ecumenists (http://www.christian-witness.org/archives/cetf2000/DIRome.html)
Jessie
12-17-2006, 01:30 PM
hummm wonder who signed that thing...?
out of curiousity..
hummm wonder who signed that thing...?
out of curiousity..
Jessie:
Dominus Iesus (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html) was written by Cardinal Ratzinger [B-16] when he was in charge of the Vatican's Ministry of DisInformation and Propaganda.
Here is the text of Evangelicals & Catholics Together: The Christian Mission in the Third Millennium (http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft9405/mission.html) with the list of those who signed it.
I am pretty sure that most of the Christians who signed it now regret it.
Despite all the Catholic finger-wagging about the lack of unity reflected in Protestant denominationalism, there may well be more disharmony within the Roman Catholic Church than there is in the typical Protestant denomination.
Take, for example, Catholic Answers, the apologetics organization headed by Karl Keating. Although Keating and Catholic Answers did not invent the argument that Protestant denominationalism disproves sola fide, they certainly have perfected and popularized it. Staff apologists from Catholic Answers are the chief ones who brought this issue to the forefront of the Catholic-Protestant debate.
Catholic Answers published the tract (http://www.catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp) cited in the first post in this series (http://www.sfpulpit.com/2006/08/06/why-so-many-denominations-intro/). And Keating himself personally trained a number of pro-Catholic debaters to employ this argument in their dialogues with Protestants.
Catholic Answers has hammered this same theme for years (http://www.catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp). According to them, an infallible, magisterial interpretation of Scripture is the only thing that can assure true unity, and the continuing proliferation and fragmentation of Protestant denominations is living proof that there can be no unity under the principle of sola scriptura (http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9710conv.asp).
The Wrong Kind of Unity (http://www.sfpulpit.com/2006/08/20/the-wrong-kind-of-unity/)
CoreIssue
01-25-2007, 11:47 AM
With all of this chaos in the Apostate seventh church, they need a unifying principle and leader to bring them together.
Wonder who they will find? :not:
kay-gee
01-29-2007, 09:44 AM
Was Jesus a protestant? curious. All the Best!.........
Was Jesus a protestant? curious. All the Best!.........
Depends on how you define protestant:
. . . if you define protestant as taking a stand for the truth, yes.
. . . if you define protestant as anyone who isn't Roman Catholic, no.
kay-gee
01-30-2007, 01:21 PM
What about the apostles? Were they Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalian, Presbyterian? Was Paul a Pentecostal or perhaps a Jehovah Witness? If none of these then what? I'd be interested to know. All the best...........
What about the apostles?
Were they Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalian, Presbyterian?
The Apostles were un-hyphenated Christians
Was Paul a Pentecostal or perhaps a Jehovah Witness?
From Paul's Epistles, plainly he wasn't Roman Catholic.
The RCC wan't organized until the 4th century by Constantine and Sylvester.
. . . composed of equal parts of Christianity, Judaism and paganism.
CoreIssue
01-30-2007, 09:01 PM
Yes. They were Christians. Period.
kay-gee
01-31-2007, 04:58 PM
Correct answers all! RCC is only one denomination. All denominations are apostate! I am not required to wear anyones name but Christs. I am not subject to any teaching outside of that laid down for me in Holy scripture. I am not under authority of any man regardless of who they are or how well meaning they be. This includes the Pope, Luther, Calvin Weselly Billy Graham etc..etc... The LORDs own church exsists in the world because HE said it would be. I suggest we all seek out that church and be members of it only. Now on somewhat lighter note Sid do you ever check out the recipe thread Need some help. Thanks All the best.
kay-gee
02-10-2007, 12:19 AM
Explain to me, why do we hate catholics? Never understood all the fuffaraw, curious. all the best.......
Explain to me, why do we hate catholics? Never understood all the fuffaraw, curious. all the best.......
I don't hate Catholics, most of my family still pretend to belong to the RCC.
Trying to witness to the truth of the Word of God to Catholics who believe they are already in possession of the truth is most challenging. What Catholics might see as attack against the RCC, is in reality defending the faith against the confused doctrines of RCism.
Demonstrating that Catholics belong to a church or religion that is living in error is at once frustrating and challenging. The truth is normally considered unkind, unloving and hateful to Catholics who have embraced a confused and deceptive gospel.
Catholics don't easily admit that they have been deceived.
Chrystalwuzhere
02-10-2007, 10:54 AM
Correct answers all! RCC is only one denomination. All denominations are apostate! I am not required to wear anyones name but Christs. I am not subject to any teaching outside of that laid down for me in Holy scripture. I am not under authority of any man regardless of who they are or how well meaning they be. This includes the Pope, Luther, Calvin Weselly Billy Graham etc..etc... The LORDs own church exsists in the world because HE said it would be. I suggest we all seek out that church and be members of it only. Now on somewhat lighter note Sid do you ever check out the recipe thread Need some help. Thanks All the best.
Careful when you call all denominations apostate. It isn't so, and you're ungenerously calling your brothers and sisters in Christ who attend those churches apostates. That is a judgment that you won't be qualified to make until you can read their hearts, and die for their sins.
Some, we know per God's word, are heretical. The RCC, for example...one has only to inspect and examine their doctrine to see that it is full of paganism, and not a Godly, Biblical church. In fact, the Word of God calls it a whore, and tells His people to come out of her or they will suffer the wrath that will be poured out on her.
To be a true apostate church, one has to hold sound, biblical doctrine to begin with, and then forsake it for a different, unbiblical doctrine. The RCC was never a sound church with sound doctrine to begin with.
I read Dominus Iesus a couple of years ago, and could only shake my head in bewilderment that any bible believing Christian could read it and endorse it.
CoreIssue
02-10-2007, 11:42 AM
There is a huge difference between hating error and hating those in error.
A problem with the happy time Christians is they view any rejection of doctrine as rejection of person. And that is flatly false.
If we hated those in error, we would not try to get them out of such error. We love them, not the error.
Hate the sin, not the sinner.
This nonsense of to love one you must accept them as they are is not Biblically. Christ didn't come to accept the world as is. He came to make the world acceptable to God.
PC Christianity is one of the biggest aspects of the Great Apostasy now happening around us. Itching ears looking for self pleasing words.
kay-gee
02-10-2007, 10:39 PM
OOOOOOOOOOOh! selective hating? All the best..............
CoreIssue
02-10-2007, 11:10 PM
OOOOOOOOOOOh! selective hating? All the best..............
What kind of Christian doesn't understand the distinction between hating the sin while trying to save the sinner?
Amazing.
kay-gee
02-11-2007, 11:32 PM
What makes them more apostate than anybody else. They got all the scriptures they need to back up the things they believe. I know cause I've tested them. So do J-W's, the Amish, the 7 days, whatever. Everybody's got scriptures. Sometimes I want to join Pilate in asking: WHAT IS TRUTH? GOD only knows in the end really. If you really believe in something, Go with it. If you wind up lost for eternity, than you were wrong. It's not my problem to worry about you. Lets all just stop the hating!!! OK?......All the best.......
Chrystalwuzhere
02-12-2007, 09:01 AM
What makes them more apostate than anybody else. They got all the scriptures they need to back up the things they believe. I know cause I've tested them. So do J-W's, the Amish, the 7 days, whatever. Everybody's got scriptures. Sometimes I want to join Pilate in asking: WHAT IS TRUTH? GOD only knows in the end really. If you really believe in something, Go with it. If you wind up lost for eternity, than you were wrong. It's not my problem to worry about you. Lets all just stop the hating!!! OK?......All the best.......
If this is the way you truly feel, then you have a lot to learn.
Sound doctrine is extremely important. Just letting someone "go with it" when they are following heresy is playing cavalier with their souls. We aren't told to just go with it. The Word of God talks about unsound doctrine. Look it up.
kay-gee
02-12-2007, 03:06 PM
OKay, Looked it up! Matt13:30. Let the wheat and tares grow together. The LORD will do the separating. Thats HIS job! Vs 29 says be careful, You might uproot the good stuff. So if you draw me away from my supposed errors just to par-take in your errors, Then wind up eternally lost, What have YOU done for Me? I will wish you had of just "buzzed off". The true sheep belong to Christ, not you, He knows who they are! We are merely the sowers. Our responsibility ends there. All the best...................................
It is also clear that once an apostate church is uncovered, fellowship is to cease:
Eph 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
God Demands Separation from Error
Chrystalwuzhere
02-12-2007, 06:54 PM
OKay, Looked it up! Matt13:30. Let the wheat and tares grow together. The LORD will do the separating. Thats HIS job! Vs 29 says be careful, You might uproot the good stuff. So if you draw me away from my supposed errors just to par-take in your errors, Then wind up eternally lost, What have YOU done for Me? I will wish you had of just "buzzed off". The true sheep belong to Christ, not you, He knows who they are! We are merely the sowers. Our responsibility ends there. All the best...................................
Draw you away from your "supposed errors" to partake in my errors? I'm talking about correcting doctrinal error, as you well know. To let it slide and let people believe the way they want is how error enters the church. If you study and rightly divide the Word of God, the WHOLE Word, then you won't be in error, and you won't lead people into error...you'll lead them out of it.
The Word of God tells us to rebuke and reprove people so they will be sound in the faith. Just letting them go and letting them believe what they want shows you are biblically immature and not sound in the faith.
kay-gee
02-13-2007, 12:40 AM
When the apostle wrote that to Timothy there only was ONE church. Yes it is our responsibility to keep sound doctrine in the church. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about hateful slurs against groups that doctrines that are not your doctrines. I strongly believe in people to believe according to the dictates of their own conscience. Whether right or wrong, they have that inherent right. that goes for Islams, Catholics, Pentecostal' whatever. Sometimes trying to reprove is just plain futile. The truth will prevail regardless of all our supposed "sound" doctrine. Contrary to your opinion, I'm very biblcally secure in my faith. I'm maturing daily. learned a lot just coming on this forum, namely, where not to cast my pearls...All the best.......
Chrystalwuzhere
02-13-2007, 08:46 AM
Contrary to your opinion, I'm very biblcally secure in my faith. I'm maturing daily. learned a lot just coming on this forum, namely, where not to cast my pearls...All the best.......
That's the last time you throw a back-handed slur. Likening the folks on this forum who don't agree with you to swine ... well, enough said.
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