View Full Version : The Marian Apparitions: Divine Intervention or Delusion?
From an Eastern Orthodox source:
Why is it that these apparitions are accepted so readily by the visionaries themselves and by countless pilgrims? There are many examples in the Lives of the Saints where monastics and ascetics, many of whom went on to achieve genuine holiness, fell into delusion, entertaining demons in the form of angels, and even "Christ" Himself, receiving "revelations," seeing "light" in their cells and hearing "the Lord" speaking to them.
Sometimes "Christ" granted them gifts of "prophecy' and astonishing powers. St Diadochus of Photiki warned against accepting the deceit of the evil one under the form of light or some fiery form, and St Symeon the New Theologian warned of evil spirits who cause many and various deceptions in the air.
It is not the experiences that are in doubt, but the origin of the experiences, as visions may be caused by various psychological factors, natural psychic and mediumistic ability or demonic delusion. The demons do not hesitate to make full of our fallen intellects, false assumptions, spiritual pride, and psychologically based delusions, which is why the Church warns us, through the ascetics and great spiritual fathers, to be spiritually sober and constantly aware, lest self-deception turns into demonic deception.
My initial reaction on reading the messages from the shrines was one of intense disappointment. They hardly seemed to justify a heavenly visitation.
The messages from Medjugorje particularly seemed bland, banal, and boringly monotonous. And there were far too many of them.
If God really was trying to speak, it would be almost impossible to hear Him for the Lady's incessant chattering.
The Marian Apparitions: Divine Intervention or Delusion? (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/marian_apparitions.aspx)
I used to live next to a couple of Marian Catholics and they went to Medugorije about 20 years ago. They came back with the medals, rosaries and the trinkets and some of them had turned color, I wasn't impressed with any miraculous alchemy.
They related that the Bosnia Government was most helpful: they landed at a military facility and the military was present everywhere. . . my only thought was that they were cooperating with the tourists leaving money in their cash-starved country.
. . . after listening to the whole pitch, they admitted that Medugorije was a religious theme park.
Medjugorje has been condemned by the local bishop as a fraud, but pew Catholics can't get enough of their Apparition Mary. . . .
Incredible claims of daily apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary since June 24, 1981 have caused millions of Catholics to travel to Medjugorje, a village in the diocese of Mostar in Bosnia (formerly a part of Yugoslavia.
More millions of Catholics, including almost all Catholics involved in the charismatic movements, have had some knowledge of Medjugorje goings-on through Medjugorje, Marian, Peace, or "Mir" (which means "peace" in Croatian) conferences, meetings or retreats, and speakers; or through newspaper and magazine articles, books, pamphlets, tabloids, CDs, and video and audio cassette tapes promoting the Medjugorje apparitions.
The impression is given that belief in and promotion of the apparitions at Medjugorje is acceptable, though the bishop of Mostar and his successor have investigated the apparitions, found lies, manipulations, and clerical disobedience and immoral behavior associated with them, and stated that the apparitions are not authentic.
Franciscan clergy associated with the apparitions have had their faculties to administer the sacraments and to function as pastors of St. James parish in Mostar removed by their bishop, and they have been disciplined by their Franciscan superiors.
These facts have been either kept from "pilgrims" or ignored by those who promote "pilgrimages" to Medjugorje, thereby placing money in the hands of the Franciscan priests who are in disobedience to the bishop of Mostar and to their Franciscan superiors, and are using the wealth they have acquired from the pilgrims to build unauthorized churches and other facilities in the Mostar diocese.
Two of the Franciscan priests associated with Medjugorje have conceived a child with a nun: Father Tomislav Vlasic with a Sister Rufina and Father Ivica Vego with a Sister Leopolda. And the most prominent Medjugorje priest, Father Jozo Zovko was suspended by the superior general of the Franciscan order after accusations of sexually assaulting women pilgrims.
Marketing Medjugorje (http://www.sffaith.com/ed/articles/2000/1000os.htm)
The author, once a Marian devotee himself, exposes the apparitions of Mary for what they are: Deceivers. Chapters discuss the contradictions of the messages given by the apparitions with both Catholic doctrine and Scrip-ture. The author rightly states that if the apparitions draw people to Mary rather than to Christ, they contradict Scrip-ture and cannot be from God.
He interestingly notes that NO ONE has used the biblical test for spirits found in 1 John 4:1-3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=1%20john%204:1-3&version1=49), where we are charged to ask if the spirit confesses that Christ has come in the flesh. The only time a question even close to this was posed, the apparition changed the subject and then quickly disappeared!
One apparition said that if a devotee was wearing a Scapular (a cloth item worn under the clothing) at the time of death, they would be released from purgatory on the Saturday after they died. Apparitions are in large part responsible for the popularity of the Rosary as a prayer in the Catholic church.
Even though many Catholics do not follow after these supernatural visitors, it is clear that the Catholic church is being influenced by their messages.
Quite Contrary: A Biblical Reconsideration of the Apparitions of Mary (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/096371418X/newlight/102-6014462-1776105)
Unapproved Apparitions (http://www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/unapprov/unapprov.html)
Apparitions of the Virgin Mary:A Protestant Look at a Catholic Phenomenon (http://www.inplainsite.org/html/apparitions_of_the_virgin_mary.html)
Information About Marian Apparitions... (http://members.aol.com/bjw1106/marian.htm)
Our Lady Of Guadalupe (http://www.sancta.org/)
The deeper I dig into the Catholic Apparition Mary obsession, the more I find instances of spirit guides and other demonic manifestations.
. . . I believe that Catholics are being innoculated and prepared for total deception with the RCC obsession with dead people and demonic manifestations pretending to be Mary.
That the Vatican hasn't shut down Medjugorje is proof positive that it is full of false shepherds and hirelings.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 (New American Standard Bible) (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%202%20Thessalonians%202:3-12;&version=49;)
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
eahaddix
12-19-2006, 03:29 PM
Sid, did Anneliese Michel (a.k.a. "Emily Rose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exorcism_of_Emily_Rose)") see a vision of "Mary" when she was possessed by demon (http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1142)s?
As a side note: On another forum, someone posted "before [possession]" and "after [possession]" pictures (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=64450#) of Anneliese Michel. Likewise, Google displays another selection of such pictures (http://images.google.com/images?q=Anneliese+Michel&hl=en&lr=&sa=X&oi=images&ct=title). But, I warn you strongly against looking at these pictures, unless you are properly prepared.
Sid, did Anneliese Michel (a.k.a. "Emily Rose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exorcism_of_Emily_Rose)") see a vision of "Mary" when she was possessed by demon (http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1142)s?
As a side note: On another forum, someone posted "before [possession]" and "after [possession]" pictures (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=64450#) of Anneliese Michel. Likewise, Google displays another selection of such pictures (http://images.google.com/images?q=Anneliese+Michel&hl=en&lr=&sa=X&oi=images&ct=title). But, I warn you strongly against looking at these pictures, unless you are properly prepared.
Lucky:
Thanks for the input, I haven't seen Emily Rose but demon possession is real.
. . . mainstream psychology/psychiatry can't accept that.
Have you ever read People of the Lie (http://www.amazon.com/People-Lie-M-Scott-Peck/dp/0684848597/sr=1-1/qid=1166567814/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-5453300-3544449?ie=UTF8&s=books) by M. Scott Peck?
Of all the bad stuff that came out of Peck, he is a believer in demonic possession.
BereanGal
09-10-2007, 05:42 PM
1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
The messages spoken from the apparitions of "Mary" are contrary to scripture -- that is how I believe we can test the "Mary" spirit.
If you look over some messages from her, which are Vatican approved, she calls herself "mediatrix" "co-redemptrix" and "Queen of Heaven." She even demands statues to be made of her. This is all contrary to scripture, so IMO the Mary apparitions seen worldwide are not the Mary of the bible, but a false sign from Satan, the deciever of the whole world.
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