Visions and other spiritual gifts according to WOF

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Let's talk about them. What types of things do I want to discuss?

Does God still give visions like He gave to the prophets of old? Doesn't the Lord speak to His people in visions today? If so, why? If not, does He only speak to people through His Word, and conviction of the heart?

Hopefully, this will be a very edifying discussion. So many people today abuse visions, or say they have them, when really they haven't. Did they really see anything? If not, and they are sincerely convinced they had the vision, where did it come from? Their own psychological compulsion? Satan?

This discussion could cover so many different grounds.

Yee haw! Let's dive into this head first!

[CoreIssue]

A very tricky one to answer, I think.

No, God does not speaks the as he did in the OT with visions in the things the Holy Spirit now deals directly with us about. Yes, God does speak times in special occasions when something needs to be shown to us in a different way.

But nothing like these ones running around claiming almost daily visions on a regular basis. That is nonsense.

A true vision is going to be about a unique issue that does not violate the Bible where just Bible study isn't going to reveal the answer to us. It isn't going to give new revelation beyond the scope of what we can see in the Bible.

[Jessie]

what about people saying muslims are turning to Jesus thru visions?

[CoreIssue]

what about people saying muslims are turning to Jesus thru visions?

Jesus is a figure in Islam, called Isa.

It must be understand he is a prophet of Allah, to them, and the one who will point out who is true Muslim and who is not. Only the true get to live.

[Sid]

In the Olivet Discourses (Mt. 24, Mk.13 and Lk. 21), Our Lord promised that religious deception would be one of the first and surest signs of the end times.

That is where I would sort the apparitions, signs and wonders that we see almost daily. There is no downside in ignoring this stuff wholesale.

Poke around this site, it is a one stop (http://www.livingmiracles.net/index.html)

[eahaddix]

:hmm: The main problem is that the church of Laodicea[1] wants to experience spiritual things, yet this church wants to remain worldly and materialistic. Pursuant to this, many members of this church convince themselves that they see and experience spiritual phenomena on a daily basis. Specifically, they reinterpret many vagaries of their perception as spiritual experiences from spiritual messengers[2]. Moreover, they attempt to invoke subtle occultic techniques for forcing personal revelation and spiritual "power ups." As a result, such individuals provide evil spirits with "open doors" which allow the said evil spirits to influence and mislead them[3].

http://sjc-static8.sjc.youtube.com/vi/VjBwyh6RcRs/2.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjBwyh6RcRs)
"Anointing Or Severe Untreated Neurological Problem?" by lalovision, May 15, 2006 @ YouTube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjBwyh6RcRs)

http://sjc-static5.sjc.youtube.com/vi/IFcN8HniQoM/2.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFcN8HniQoM)
"G12 Shaker Babylonic Pentecostal Charismatic Crazy G-12 NWO," by BuscandoLaVerdad, November 26, 2006 @ YouTube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFcN8HniQoM)

http://sjc-static15.sjc.youtube.com/vi/bkf7DpnnNck/2.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkf7DpnnNck)
"Speaking in Tongues," by mikehager66, October 16, 2006 @ YouTube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkf7DpnnNck)

http://sjc-static13.sjc.youtube.com/vi/0tiJHLyyJ0k/2.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tiJHLyyJ0k)
"Wild, Wild Church Party," by lalovision, May 4, 2006 @ YouTube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tiJHLyyJ0k)

http://sjc-static3.sjc.youtube.com/vi/OsX07K3f1AI/2.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsX07K3f1AI)
"Crazy Ladies," by JaBenny, April 22, 2006 @ YouTube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsX07K3f1AI)

However, the bottom line is that spiritual growth cannot be achieved through worldly and materialistic mindsets[4]. To the contrary, such mindsets resist God the Spirit[5], thereby quenching[6] and silencing God the Spirit. Pursuant to this fact, Biblical Scripture clearly teaches us to cease conforming to the world[7], for there is no middle ground between God and the world[8], especially when we wage war[9].

Footnotes:
[1] Revelation 3:14-21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%203:14-21;&version=31;).
[2] ref. Colossians 2:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%202:18;&version=31;), see also 1 Timothy 6:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%206:20;&version=31;), 2 Timothy 2:16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Timothy%202:16;&version=31;)
[3] ref. 1 Timothy 4:1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%204:1;&version=31;), 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Thessalonians%202:9-10;&version=31;)
[4] Matthew 6:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%206:24;&version=31;), 1 Timothy 6:3-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%206:3-10;&version=31;).
[5] ref. Galatians 5:16-17, 19-23, 25 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%205:16-17,%2019-23,%2025;&version=31;).
[6] ref. 1 Thessalonians 5:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians%205:19;&version=31;).
[7] Romans 12:2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2012:2;&version=31;), ref. Colossians 2:20-23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%202:20-23;&version=31;), 1 Peter 1:14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%201:14;&version=31;), etc.
[8] James 4:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%204:4;&version=31;), 1 John 2:15-17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20John%202:15-17;&version=31;), etc.
[9] 2 Corinthians 10:2-4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%2010:2-4;&version=31;), Ephesians 6:10-18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%206:10-18;&version=31;)

[CoreIssue]

:not:

[Chrystalwuzhere]

That first video clip that you posted Lucky, is very troubling. I noticed she stopped shaking when she slid down the podium and hit the floor. I don't think the girl has a neurological disorder, as the poster said, but is influenced by mental suggestion and unsound doctrine.

Those videos are so discouraging. What's sad is that millions upon millions not only buy into this, but defend it.

People don't want to know the true way of growing in God's word. They would rather skip the part of studying, getting quietly before Him, and leaning on faith with no feeling. They need a physical manifestation, which is a momentarily gratifying thing that targets the flesh. But it's not of God.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

To further add to what Lucky and I were saying above, please note the following:

Kenneth Hagin, and Kenneth and Gloria Copeland in Holy Laughter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjujnAs-6tM). (For my part, I never thought the Holy Spirit was so hilarious that He was to be laughed at. I mean, He is God's Spirit.)

A local news show's expose of Kenneth Copeland's business practices (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIivzLSk02o). (The reason I'm posting this video is because this is the true fruit of their ministry. Not the gospel of the Kingdom. This is what it all boils down to. Nothing more. Fleshly vices...riches, instant gratification.)

These are the people who have the market cornered on spiritual gifts? :eek:

[CoreIssue]

These people make me sick.

Their eyes are hard, hollow and dark. Pits.:ick:

[Chrystalwuzhere]

In their own words (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piHJxXhDTuw).

[Jessie]

what about people saying muslims are turning to Jesus thru visions?

Jesus is a figure in Islam, called Isa.

It must be understand he is a prophet of Allah, to them, and the one who will point out who is true Muslim and who is not. Only the true get to live.

they try to say its our Jesus and the true gospel they are turning to.
so they would be decieving then?

[Jessie]

:hmm: The main problem is that the church of Laodicea[1] wants to experience spiritual things, yet this church wants to remain worldly and materialistic. Pursuant to this, many members of this church convince themselves that they see and experience spiritual phenomena on a daily basis. Specifically, they reinterpret many vagaries of their perception as spiritual experiences from spiritual messengers[2]. Moreover, they attempt to invoke subtle occultic techniques for forcing personal revelation and spiritual "power ups." As a result, such individuals provide evil spirits with "open doors" which allow the said evil spirits to influence and mislead them[3].

http://sjc-static8.sjc.youtube.com/vi/VjBwyh6RcRs/2.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjBwyh6RcRs)
"Anointing Or Severe Untreated Neurological Problem?" by lalovision, May 15, 2006 @ YouTube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjBwyh6RcRs)

http://sjc-static5.sjc.youtube.com/vi/IFcN8HniQoM/2.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFcN8HniQoM)
"G12 Shaker Babylonic Pentecostal Charismatic Crazy G-12 NWO," by BuscandoLaVerdad, November 26, 2006 @ YouTube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFcN8HniQoM)

http://sjc-static15.sjc.youtube.com/vi/bkf7DpnnNck/2.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkf7DpnnNck)
"Speaking in Tongues," by mikehager66, October 16, 2006 @ YouTube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkf7DpnnNck)

http://sjc-static13.sjc.youtube.com/vi/0tiJHLyyJ0k/2.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tiJHLyyJ0k)
"Wild, Wild Church Party," by lalovision, May 4, 2006 @ YouTube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tiJHLyyJ0k)

http://sjc-static3.sjc.youtube.com/vi/OsX07K3f1AI/2.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsX07K3f1AI)
"Crazy Ladies," by JaBenny, April 22, 2006 @ YouTube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsX07K3f1AI)

However, the bottom line is that spiritual growth cannot be achieved through worldly and materialistic mindsets[4]. To the contrary, such mindsets resist God the Spirit[5], thereby quenching[6] and silencing God the Spirit. Pursuant to this fact, Biblical Scripture clearly teaches us to cease conforming to the world[7], for there is no middle ground between God and the world[8], especially when we wage war[9].

Footnotes:
[1] Revelation 3:14-21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%203:14-21;&version=31;).
[2] ref. Colossians 2:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%202:18;&version=31;), see also 1 Timothy 6:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%206:20;&version=31;), 2 Timothy 2:16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Timothy%202:16;&version=31;)
[3] ref. 1 Timothy 4:1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%204:1;&version=31;), 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Thessalonians%202:9-10;&version=31;)
[4] Matthew 6:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%206:24;&version=31;), 1 Timothy 6:3-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%206:3-10;&version=31;).
[5] ref. Galatians 5:16-17, 19-23, 25 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%205:16-17,%2019-23,%2025;&version=31;).
[6] ref. 1 Thessalonians 5:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians%205:19;&version=31;).
[7] Romans 12:2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2012:2;&version=31;), ref. Colossians 2:20-23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%202:20-23;&version=31;), 1 Peter 1:14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%201:14;&version=31;), etc.
[8] James 4:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%204:4;&version=31;), 1 John 2:15-17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20John%202:15-17;&version=31;), etc.
[9] 2 Corinthians 10:2-4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%2010:2-4;&version=31;), Ephesians 6:10-18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%206:10-18;&version=31;)

very accurate description Lucky.

I say one learns to serve satan using Jesus name.

never before have I ever seen such that claimed to be Christian and
do occultic stuff before and out in the open.
and the evil they do, no restraint. spite is a big one too.

Your last paragraph is so true. and yet, to hear them tell it, they are IN THE SPIRIT.
and they have the "proof" to show it.(as far as they are concerned ) but the HS is NOT there,
they have locked Him out. that was one of their big ones, the HS this the HS that,
all the time. I think so much focus on the spirit cause they wanted something all the time.

and they are not givers they are ENORMOUS TAKERS.

[Jessie]

That first video clip that you posted Lucky, is very troubling. I noticed she stopped shaking when she slid down the podium and hit the floor. I don't think the girl has a neurological disorder, as the poster said, but is influenced by mental suggestion and unsound doctrine.

Those videos are so discouraging. What's sad is that millions upon millions not only buy into this, but defend it.

People don't want to know the true way of growing in God's word. They would rather skip the part of studying, getting quietly before Him, and leaning on faith with no feeling. They need a physical manifestation, which is a momentarily gratifying thing that targets the flesh. But it's not of God.

Chrystal my personal belief is that they wont allow a true person in need on that stage.
they are known for putting people up there , actors.
and they've been caught by others doing it.

Joni earikson (sp?) told her story, and others have posted on another board
the same stuff with these flakes. :grr:

and good point for momentarily gratifying the flesh.

[Jessie]

These people make me sick.

Their eyes are hard, hollow and dark. Pits.:ick:


yep, look at copeland he is downright creepy. :ick:

[Jessie]

sometimes I've wondered is my sil and mil possessed?

[eahaddix]

Chrystal my personal belief is that they wont allow a true person in need on that stage.
they are known for putting people up there , actors.
and they've been caught by others doing it.

Have you seen the movie entitled "Leap of Faith"?

http://ia.ec.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/05/21/48m.jpg (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104695/)

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/6302768039.01._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/Leap-Faith-Richard-Pearce/dp/6302768039)

I am not a fan of Steve Martin, but I must say that this film is well done.

Now, let us compare this movie to Benny Hinn's lifestyle:
http://sjl-static6.sjl.youtube.com/vi/AR63GTxTwiI/2.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR63GTxTwiI)
"Benny Hinn and Co." by Drenched06, October 29, 2006 @ YouTube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR63GTxTwiI)

"10 Minutes of Excerpts from Dateline's Benny Hinn Investigation" by Wittenburg Door @ WittenburgDoor.com (http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/godstuff/dateline_hinn.html)

http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/images/bennyhinn04.jpg (http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/godstuff/bennyhinn01.html)
"News 8 Reports on 'Televangelist Testimony'" by Wittenburg Door @ WittenburgDoor.com (http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/godstuff/bennyhinn01.html)

"False Prophet Alert! Matt 24:23-26 Fulfilled in Your Hearing!" by Michael Scheifler @ Aloha.net (http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/tbn.htm)

sometimes I've wondered is my sil and mil possessed?

Why would you speculate that this is the case?

[Jessie]

Chrystal my personal belief is that they wont allow a true person in need on that stage.
they are known for putting people up there , actors.
and they've been caught by others doing it.

Have you seen the movie entitled "Leap of Faith"?

http://ia.ec.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/05/21/48m.jpg (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104695/)

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/6302768039.01._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/Leap-Faith-Richard-Pearce/dp/6302768039)

I am not a fan of Steve Martin, but I must say that this film is well done.

sometimes I've wondered is my sil and mil possessed?

Why would you speculate that this is the case?

yes, we've seen that movie and it was well done.

I will start another thread on sil and mil to not derail this one. ;)

[eahaddix]

:hmm: The main problem is that the church of Laodicea[1] wants to experience spiritual things, yet this church wants to remain worldly and materialistic.[...]

In addition to the examples in the post immediately above, Fresh-Hope.com's "Our Dreams & Visions" Forum (http://fresh-hope.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=15) illustrates other attempts to force spiritual experiences.

For example, consider this post:

8158238

It wasn't a dream, because I was wide awake. It was more like a giant flash card, and then it was gone. Since discovering message boards a few years ago, I've posted those numbers - and some people (who are into gematria) responded the significance of the 8s.

I don't believe in numerology AT ALL. But I do believe that God has given us Biblical numbers to guide us to some extent.
Source: "8158238," by prairiewoman, July 8, 2005 @ Fresh-Hope.com (http://fresh-hope.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=30197)

In this post, prairiewoman is given an unexplained number by an unknown source. However, instead of questioning the source of this number, prairiewoman and other individuals attempt to interpret this unexplained number without credible guidance. And, in doing so, these individuals appeal to sloppy and unBiblical methodology for their interpretation of this number, such as in calling this number on a telephone and Gematria (http://www.bloomington.in.us/~okolicko/definitions4a.html).

As a result, if an evil spirit provided prairiewoman with this number, then the said evil spirit succeeded in deceiving and confusing prairiewoman.