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keny
11-22-2006, 04:45 AM
Wheat and Chaff

A kernel or seed of wheat, as all seeds are, is an evolutionary device that has the finished product already determined within it. The result is pre determined before the process is even started. During the "coming out" or resurrecting in the earth of the wheat to be a plant that has more seeds in it just like the seed if grew from, the weeds and so on need to be kept from preventing the wheat from coming forth. And the wheat that will be, needs certain nourishment along the way to keep it in existence in the earth and to continue growing toward the final result.

This is a picture of how God has dealt with mankind. His fruit as man, evolves or grows over many, many eons. Evolution is the method God uses in the world. It s a preordained evolution toward a known result. Anything that grows and "changes" over time is evolving, no matter what "terminology" someone else, including the church, may like to use. Evolution is "change through growth and time". In “eternity”, LIVING things do not change being, what is called “eternal”.

We want to understand that man includes every one who has ever lived from the very beginning of man until now. We are all of one body and one flesh. Man has been "growing up" and being given knowledge and ability in and over his physical environment, by God, for many, many eons. We are now approaching the time of maturity when the seed that was planted "in the earth" is going to produce MORE SEED of itself. This flower that has seed of itself, appears on the stalk {mankind} that grew out of the first seed.

The first seed is life unto eternal life, which in the creation is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ in maturity in a flesh and blood body is the nature of God in man while still in the creation. We all have to come to this phase of maturity before we go on to Spiritual permanent existence. This is just like the kernels of wheat appear and remain on the stalk they grew on for a time before they separate from the stalk by falling off or by being harvested.

What is really planted is the breath or life of god in man, the dust God “prepares” to bring forth good fruit.

Man plants wheat in the ground from a seed and it grows. If one is not a "gardener" they would see nothing at first, not even knowing something is coming forth as the seed begins and continues to grow out of physical sight under ground.

Then after a while, there comes forth little shoots and eventually a taller leaved stalk. The non, or novice gardener would not know what it is that was coming forth. They would just know there is something peeking out of the ground beginning to become above the ground. They would not know what the end result of the stalk would be, and would not know what the product coming forth would be or be like.

Religious man is like this in regard to “knowing” what Jesus Christ is like, even though they see through a “glass darkly”, but think they see clearly.

This is what Christianity has been like all through history concerning their faith and God. Christians have not known what God was doing, how God was doing it, and what "they" as the product of God would be like when fully "grown”. This happens because while the stalk that will become chaff is all that is appearing to them, they have the mind and knowledge only of that which becomes spiritual chaff after harvest.

As we know, first John says something like this when he says that they do not know what they will be like, but when He, Christ, appears they will see Christ as He is because we will be like HIM. {the seed of God}.

When the likeness of the kernels of wheat that were planted in the first place to bring forth those kernels that now begin to appear on the stalk of wheat in the natural world, a person can only then really begin to be able to name what the product is going to be and call them kernels of wheat.

But the non Gardener, or the gardeners that were not very well steeped in gardening yet, would not be able to tell what the process of the whole new kernels of wheat would be, and they would not know what was INSIDE the outer kernels.

What is just said above, is basically what is said by Jesus in the parable about the wheat and the tares.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

In fact, the kernels of wheat that begin to appear on the stalk of the wheat are exact replicas of that which was planted in the beginning, and they can do everything the first kernel of wheat they came from could do. Ie.. bring forth the whole process again.

We as the mature Christ of God in the world will know all about the process of creation from the beginning to the final result. That work is going to repeat itself over and over again in the creation. Of the “increase” of His Kingdom there will be no end.

When the kernels of wheat appear on the stalk, the “kernels” are what is harvested, and the stalk itself that was necessary to remain in existence until the kernels of wheat appeared ON THE STALK, now becomes chaff and food for "animals". This is the process of wheat that is grown by man. But with God, all is harvested, even the body, being made alive eternally as the body of God as His son.

This is what we are actually finding out spiritually about all the history of man and the words and preaching of man in the past, and the law, and so on. They are becoming as chaff because the kernels of wheat {maturity of Christ in us today} understand all those things more perfectly. We can understand it more perfectly because we are able to understand the whole process of God as God gives it to us today as we become matured wheat. {Unto a “perfect” man bodily, as Ephesians 4 prophecies}

In the natural, the physical wheat needs a real soaking of water to quickly mature it. If it does not receive enough water, it can become dry and stunted. We are receiving the spiritual parallel of this picture of growth to maturity through “much water” today. But unfortunately, much of us as wheat think we are a finished product when we still need more maturing. Unfortunately but truthfully, this is quite natural.

Pretty well every human teenager in the world thinks they are grown up and know everything about sex and the world and so on, long before they really do, don't they?

Thank you for allowing me to share this with you and anyone else who may read it. That which becomes chaff WAS necessary for the kernel to come forth, and that which now becomes chaff or hay in the field in the natural planting of wheat HAD TO BE, come forth, and exist. That which will become chaff was all that was apparent to religions and Christians for a long, long time in the growth or resurrection of the "kernels of wheat" that would come forth through it. A seed planted in the earth “resurrects” itself as many seeds, even in the natural we can understand that today using the word resurrects “ITSELF” instead of the word “produces more of itself”. The planting of a seed in the natural “can” be understood as pre-ordaining a resurrection of the seed in and as a multitude of seeds in it’s maturity. {it’s last days}.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

This is a parallel of the story of Christ and what God is doing and did do from the beginning. Genesis 2. The “seventh” day is the harvest day, actually. That is the day, like today in the world, that God actually SANCTIFIES all his work. It is not sanctified on the sixth day, spiritually speaking.

In the natural when man plants wheat, that which will become chaff was necessary before and so the kernels of much wheat could come forth ON the chaff. So it is with man. As Jesus said about all these ungodly things that come forth, {of the chaff or carnal man}, they MUST BE. But woe to that which the seed comes forth on.

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Mar 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Mar 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

“Elias”, or the spirit of God in the prophets but still under the mind and ways of the chaff {carnal nature and mind}, is part of the process. That spiritual position must pass as well. This is what John the Baptist meant when he finally “saw” the Lamb of God and said, I {his spiritual position in the world} must decrease and Christ MUST INCREASE. Paul tells us in 2Cor. 3 that it is the letter that kills or speaks about physical death and destruction that must be taught no more as being of the spirit of life. He does not say it in the words I used, specifically, but we as wheat need to know that that is what is meant. God never ever afflicts or kills or harms anyone. Those works are of the “chaff” only.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mar 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

This “man” that has had his time in the earth and was in vogue, passing “himself” off even as a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ, is really the carnal nature and mind IN ALL BELIEVERS through history. Those things are going to be swallowed up in victory as the nature and mind of God appear in man to become the only nature and mind in the spirit of man. The Spirit of man must and will become the HOLY SPIRIT and over time God will become all in all as scripture records it will be.

We want to really understand that LIFE destroys death, and when “that man” of sin is being afflicted it is a spiritual battle and the life and ways of God are being established IN those who once were ruled by the “carnal man”, or the first Adam nature and ways and intellect.

For our maturity in the world as the mature sons of God, we need to know all about the “earthy”, and we can not come this way again to relearn it.

Praise God. Thank you and God bless all.
keny

CoreIssue
11-22-2006, 11:06 AM
More of your theories totally void of anything Biblical.

Why even bother pretending you use the Bible at all?

keny
11-22-2006, 04:40 PM
More of your theories totally void of anything Biblical.

Why even bother pretending you use the Bible at all?

Hello Core. Thanks for your thoughts on what I share.

I am a little disappointed though that you think I do not use the bible. I mean, I give scripture verses and paragraphs or mention where they are, all the time. I believe I am talking with people who KNOW the bible, and that is why I "thought" giving reference to WHERE what I am saying can be found in the "bible" was good enough some times, to keep the posts shorter. Most people do not read long posts when they disagree. Natural.

Having said that, I would like to ask you. Is what I say about natural real wheat and plants growing to produce a seed that is like the seed that produced the stalk and then the kernel of wheat on the stalk, LITERALLY true. Is that not the truth of flowers and so on that grow in the world in the natural? I think you will have to say, yes. So I will say more assuming you agree about the "natural" workings of planted seeds in the natural earth.

God is said to have made everything, BEFORE it was planted in the earth and before it grew. Even though we can say that it is God's intent and the knoweldge he had about what He was going to do and bring forth before starting, a seed of something is evidence of the same "processs".

In a seed the finished product is ALREADY determined as to what it will be,before it is planted in the earth and before it comes forth. Of course, in the natural there are things that can prevent it's reaching full maturity, such as drought and so on.

Then of course, what comes forth for a long period of time is something that is not at all indicative of what the "flower" will be like. The stalk and leaves of the stalk do not give any witness or indication of what the END of the seed will produce. Is that not right. Only a gardener who has seen it before or learned about it, will be knowledgeable about what type of finished flower will appear on the stalk.

Scripture tells us in 1 Corinthians 15 that the resurrection is PLANTED in corruption and in weakness {to sin} and in mortality. Is that not right.?

Then, WHERE the resurrection is planted is WHERE the flower {in this case, the flower of God, Jesus Christ the man} will appear. That man, many membered all, will have all the knowledge and ability within THEM, to know what the whole process of the seed {christ} is, and has been. This is the knowledge God is giving us today. Please note, I said US.

But, we, like Israel, are refusing to believe because of what they and now we believe the scriptures say. I have not always given direct verses because you have as much as told me that "my" book is flawed with many errors. {kjv} Of course, that must mean you believe "your book" {version} is not.

I mean no ill will here at all. Do you know how the NIV came into being? You do not need to answer me, but if you do not know, you should find out for yourself.

About seed.

Gen 9:9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;

This seed of Abraham is NOT his physical offspring. It is CHRIST that is being spoken of, but of course, man would naturally think of the natural offspring. As we know, they are not all Israel, that are OF Israel, Romans tells us.

The following scripture clearly tells us that the "first birth" we have is of "corruptible seed", and the living soul man was that from the beginning. As 1 Corinthians 15 also says, the first man, a natural man, where the resurrection is PLANTED in, is earthy, and is NOT {Jesus Christ} the Lord from heaven.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
The seed of Abraham that is meant as the PROMISE that will come to the GENTILES, is Christ. Yes, there is a natural progeny as well, but that is not what the bible is speaking about in reference to the SEED the attainment the fruit of the "good news" will come through.

Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I draw our attention to the fact that Galatians tells us that the PROMISES to Abraham are to come to the GENTILES through "the seed". Yes, Israel did not see this either. No blame to them. God is not willing that ANY should perish, lest his promise be found to be without 100 percent effectiveness.

But, the SEED has to "grow" and that is the rub of all who believe salvation is "say a few words and it is over".


Also, I draw our attention to the scriptures that tell us that both the law, AND THE WHOLE SCRIPTURES, conclude all under sin. They are the schoolmaster ONLY until we come to Christ, supposedly. But man has made the schoolmaster his lord, according to his own understanding. I also realize that all people who do this will swear, honestly and sincerely, up and down, that they have not done so. The letter of the words, they will say, are plain for anyone to read and know the truth. But that is not what the scripture says either.

There is a lot of things and stories and words about what someone said or did, that is NOT God's WORDS. They are histories, many of them. I am still not denigrating the importance the scriptures can have to HELP us be taught by God.

After all, Paul had to have a VISION to convince him, and then he learned of christ when the son of God was revealed to him, from within him. That changed his whole understanding of the scritpures they had up to that time.

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

In that scripture tells us that the wheat and the tares will grow TOGETHER until the harvest, we can know that the tares are also present in every believer so far, and in those that are from Abraham onward too. But the main point I would like us to see, is that it says the tares are not removed because the "wheat" would be removed or damaged in the process. In other words, only gardeners will be able to do it properly in harvest time, because what is wheat and what is chaff will be clearly understood and known by them.

The tares are removed FIRST.

God bless, keny

CoreIssue
11-22-2006, 05:14 PM
keny. using the Bible means to read it literally, with correct word definitions. You post all kinds of statements without any Bible backing. Then post a verse or two and try and then say what they mean, bearing no resemblance to the words or passages.

Like your title. You couldn't even get that right.

Chaff is not tares. Chaff is the husk on a wheat seed. Tares are weeds. No resemblance to each other.

OK. Time to take away your preaching platform.

I am locking your threads, except for one I start, until you answer it satisfactorially. That answer will determine if I lift the locks.