Evolution

[keny]

So are you saying that we sin only because of our sin nature and that there are no outside influences such as demons whispering in your ear

I will say it, in the wind. It is the truth.

As to "sin nature" the scripture says that there is a law in our members that causes us to be "tempted" to do something outside of the Lord's intent for that law. Romans 7.
James tells us that EVERY person {eve in Genesis, included}, is tempted by "their own" lusts. And when LUST has conceived {with one}, IT, the lust, brings forth sin.

But, I also would like us to understand at the same time, that we would do well to understand "sin" as a condition of immaturity when compared to God's maturity.

Romans 3 tells us that all have sinned {by} and come SHORT of the Glory of God. In other words, we "sin" or are not doing everything like God does it all the time, because we are NOT GOD. This is the truth. God does not accuse anyone, and understands us just as we understand a human baby or five year old by who does something against his parents wishes but thinks he is doing something that is either all right, or, will be "hidden" from the parents. That is, if they think about it at all.

A baby is a baby, and is Un-adult by it's very condition. So is Adam, and thus all mankind, until Jesus Christ is the actual real active obeyed Lord in the creation, in His body of many peoples.

After all, if God is really God, there is never any resistance where God rules.

God is the GOD of all, we read. Well, when there is rebellion present, God is not the "god" or Ruler of the rebellion or rebelliousness, is He. So in the immature and unfinished creation God is not YET the active full Lord in it. Yes, God has the ability to be such, but does not take that ability the way man as a Caesar type, would. Love does not "rape".

We are to be love. It is God's love, the love of God, IN US, that will melt all the mountains of our pride and greed and so on. We are in process of coming to that realization very close, now.

Men, as a natural ordered being, thinks love is sissy and does not want to hear this at all. They think love can not do it. The secrete is, the love must be IN THE PERSON it subdues, as their own love in them that can not be "dethroned" any more.

There is no resistance to God anywhere BUT, in the unfinished parts of the creation, thus we are now entering the "fullness of times", or the completion of OUR creation as a body for God to inhabit {Eph. 2:22 etc}, as His son, in the physical creation.

This will be the time when the scriptures in revelation that say the Tabernacle of God is with men, and the gates of the city are opened all the time, no curse and no night being in those who make up that city, will be in active existence manifested outwardly.

After all, as we mature in Christ, we are given ALL wisdom, as the scripture says. This includes the "knowledge" of just what the resistance to God really is.


Thank you and God bless,
keny

[CoreIssue]

Keny, you are changing sin and salvation issues here.

But how about addressing the topic, being demons.

What are the odds you don't believe in literal demons? But that demons are emotions, immaturity and so on? :tiphat:

[keny]

Hello CoreIssue.

thanks for the reply. To a large degree, yes, but not entirely. The purpose of the creation is to form a body for God to live in as His son. Ephesians 2:22 says something to this effect, as I know you know. We are built together into a dwelling place for God.

I also know you will know the scripture that says, every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

The scripture, as you know, also says that ALL "angels" are ministering Spirits "for" the heirs of salvation.

They are and do TEACH us something we need to understand and know as sons of God if we are to be the body of Christ. But when we are not aware of this or do not have this attitude and acceptance in our faith yet, but are returned to the spirit of fear about such things, we can not see because of our misplacing of the truth of these things.

We know today, for instance, that when one is sick, it is usually something like a virus, an earthy bodied living being that we can not see with the unaided eye, that is making us sick. We also understand that the virus is simply doing what it needs to do to save it's own life alive in the world. It is being fruitful, multiplying, and subduing OUR earth and trying to make our body an acceptable place for it to live in and increase.

This is the same thing the settlers to America did when they came west. They were simply cultivating the land and making it able to produce food and so on for their ability to prosper and increase. The things that used to live on the land before they came had to move or perish.

When we are sick, the virus or whatever organism that is causing it, is simply "eating" us for it's own sustenance. IT is doing what comes "naturally" for it. It is "our own ways" upon us.

As you know, the scripture says that there is nothing that comes to us that is not common to all mankind.

I would like to know if you think that certain conditions that the medical field calls schizophrenia and bipolar are "demon possession". Coreissue, I do not think you do, but I have to ask because some people that I have come across time to time, still do think that way.

We "can" understand today that these bodily conditions that cause mental confusion and hallucinations are the result of bodily imperfections and sometimes because of reactions to things that have been ingested into the body.

The body does not always work properly in being formed in the womb, and causes birth defects at times, and the like. This is a result of imperfect workings in the programming of the bodies building structure, and is through ADAM. {the physical body}.

You know that the scripture tells us that when the Lord comes, he will send "his angels" to TAKE OUT of HIS kingdom, ALL things that offend. This begins by the tares being bound FIRST. {Mat. 13, etc.}

Tares include doctrines and faithful beliefs we as Christians can have, that are not correctly understood as the SON who knows God would understand them. Only the son knows the father.

Years ago, a few centuries, schizophrenia and such diseases, and leprosy and plagues and such, were attributed to some god, or to God, and often were said to be done by "devils" or a curse from someone, and so on, when man did not know what the real causes of these things were.

When God began to form man, man was not finished. The natural minded belief that man was already finished and perfect, which can not be proven by scripture in fact, because it is not a fact of scripture, hides everything beyond that from those of us who believe that.

When God began to form man of the dust of the ground, and blew into man the breath of life, man not being mature or a completed project yet, had both unfinished and finished parts to him. They are... the spirit of life and the spirit of death, represented in man by the good and the evil that any honest person who is not afraid to look at themselves knows is a capability in them.

The carnal nature and mind is the nature of the dust that is dead that man is being formed out of, and the divine nature of God is the good in man. They BOTH minister to us but we are not to use the example of unfinished man as if it represents what God is like.

WE are to eat of the tree of life only, for an understanding and witness of what God is like.

The life in the flesh represents the first covenant that has to pass away, but that does not mean the creature passes away. It is the "vanity" the creature is subject to that must pass away. As Jesus said, if we do not deny "ourselves" and pick up our spiritual cross and follow Him, {his teachings to disciples}, we can not be HIS disciple. {student}. We can not be taught by Christ if we continue to skip his "class" {teachings} much of the time.

In Romans 9 when it speaks about the vessels of wrath and the vessels of mercy, it is speaking about the same vessel, but a change of contents. It is only as we become the vessel of mercy that we begin to see further and further into God's truth for us all.

The idea that the veil is removed just because we verbalize a few words about belief in Christ, is misleading for most.
I am sure that you understand that the veil or seeing and understanding many many things does not happen over night.

Every creature of god is good, and nothing to be refused, "if", means that we have to look for the good in the events that come upon us in the world.

As you know, the tares are bound BEFORE the wheat is removed.

Thank you and God bless,
keny

[CoreIssue]

The Bible makes it very clear there are diseases, including one of the mind and brain.

Those are not to be confused with demon possession and evils created by ones own spirits.

You need to step back and see what you are doing.

You are practicing Shopping Cart Spiritualized Theology. Meaning you cherry pick the verses that you will spiritualize and spin into meaning something entirely different.

If you read the threads on Angels and such, you will see that demons and angels are literal beings. Not states of mind, diseseases, attitudes and so forth. But you disregard those and try to get around them secularist pleadings.

The demons that came out of the man in the graveyard spoke to Jesus. Viruses do not speak.

We are told we will judge angels after the Resurrection. So we are going to be judging and condemning diseases?

Satan is a literal being. The war in Heaven was not diseases fighting God. They were Fallen spirit beings.

The Trinity is 3 spirit beings. One took on human flesh. Is God now also a mental concept or principal.

Are those who have have seen angels and demons, both in the Bible, in history and today suffering from a mental disorder? Were they hallucinating?

You have turned the Bible into your own personal revelation. Our are literal meanings, out are literal passage subjects, our is everything literal and in is what Keny want to believe.

Show me a reason, in the Bible, to back your thinking. All I hear is a person trying to spin God's word into a social and cultural based general outline whose meaning changes with society. Society and culture become the judges of the Bible instead of the Bible being the judges of society and culture.

Speculations with proof are meaningless, Keny. Totally meaningless.

If the Bible is not true and literal, then why bother? It is without value of any real kind.

And yet, I find what those of your thinking used to call spiritualized history has proven to be true history. I see the literal prophecies of the Bible about the End Times coming true.

I have every reason to read the Bible literally based on testing it literally. You have nothing to offer to back your position.

Concerning this time it says the world will not be able to tolerate sound teachings. They will have itching ears and follow false teachers.

You are demonstrating that right now. As in having no tolerance for the fact the Bible says we are all sinners who fall short of what God demands from us. That we are all sinners who cannot save ourselves.

Yes, it says salvation requires recognition you cannot save yourself. That the basic you of your spirit cannot see Heaven as is. That you must be cleansed of that basic nature and can only do so by recognizing you must ask for Christ to change you via his resurrection.

You cannot grow an become mature as you are. As you are is going to Hell.

Christ much change you. And you must recogize you and throw yourself on his mercy to change you.

Before you say it, the spirit being born-again does not change the flesh. And it does not fully change the mind.

The spirit will be at war with the flesh in the mind. Before that the spirit, mind and body were all in harmony.

Your self concept that you are not really bad, just a baby or youngster that needs to grow up and mature in Christ. And that Man is continuing to evolve and grow up in God is self elevation.

And in that mix of reality, demons are very real and very much active in the world.

By the way, tares and wheat are not about within each of us, with the tares removed leaving the wheat. Tare are people and wheat are saints. The tare people will go to Hell.

[keny]

hello To anyone interested.

I see there is some other posters here and do not know if some of them are directed to what I said or not.

As has been said, Lucifer means morning star. In a picture, the morning star in this hemisphere of the earth is Venus, or commonly called or understood by astronomers and others, to be Venus. Why.

At early dawn, while it is still dark in this hemisphere and Venus is high in OUR sky, and the dark side of the earth is still not enlightened by the approaching daylight of the sun, Venus receives the light from the sun BEFORE the rest of the earth that is in darkness does. It then appears on the dark side of the earth, to be bright because the light of the sun that is not yet apparent to the dark side, is reflected off Venus and we see that as a bright light or, morning star.

In that sense, Venus can also be understood as being an example of receiving the EARLY light of the coming sunlight that will eventrually appear and shine to and upon the rest of the earth and thus to all who are on it.

The scripture tells us that we will or can be given the morning star.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

In regard to the word rule, above, it actually means to feed or to shepherd. That is in keeping with what Jesus said, that he did and does not come to be served, but to serve.

As to being given the morning star, it means that we can have the EARLY light of Christ before the rest of the world sees it, if we agree with the conditions of being given it.

If one sees Lucifer as that morning star that we are to be given, then, the knowledge and understanding of what Lucifer is, and the ability to "be over it" is GIVEN to us at that time.

WHo goes to warfare at any time without sitting down and understanding the cost or {battle}.

This is in keeping with the idea that the church has, but understands incorrectly, that Christ will "come" and not be seen by "others".
The word Satan simply means, adversary. The word is even used for the "angel" that resisted Baalam when he was on his ASS. The word adversary in the scripture verse below is interpreted as Satan in Strongs. This is in keeping with some other scriptures in regard to "satan" as well.7854 - Hebrew7854 satan saw-tawn'
from 7853; an opponent; especially (with the article prefixed) Satan, the arch-enemy of good:--adversary, Satan, withstand.

Num 22:22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.

Secondly, when Jesus said that he saw "satan" as lightning fall from heaven, it simply means that something that can give us "light"or understanding about adversity and so on became DARKNESS to us and did not ENLIGHTEN us as it was meant to do.

It is the "knowledge" of evil, which man made into a course of action instead of refusing it, like Jesus did. The knowledge of evil in a spiritually understood manner, as God knows it, because a physical reality and deed. Ie.. the knowledge of evil fell from spiritual wisdom to become our carnal {earthy} manifestation.

I hope this is helpful. God bless,
keny

[keny]

Yep. He stirred up the rebellion.

As for Satan's real name, I don't have a clue.

hello Core.
Perhaps you have found some scripture for the evidence of what you say about "satan" founding the rebellion and much of the other things you offer.

OF course there is something about the world PRE man in it, but nothing about "other men" before Man the living soul. Yes, there are animals and so on mentioned, if one looks.

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

As we see, the things were made BEFORE they GREW. But it also says that it had not rained upon the earth, meaning the earth exists. And it also says, there was not YET a man on it.

You see, Core, you have to relate what you understand to the scripture that says that Jesus Christ is the beginning of the creation of God.

God bless, and thank you again.
keny

[CoreIssue]

keny, Satan was the Covering Angel of the Throne of God before he fell. Nothing figurative about references to his rebellion and fall in Gen 1:2.

Again, you make a lot of statement of 'fact' based on nothing but your opinion.

We need some literal evidence from the Bible to back all you are claiming. And that is all they are at this point in time, claims. Foundationless claims.

Give one verse that literally says anything theistic evolution. Literal with properly defined words.

[keny]

keny, Satan was the Covering Angel of the Throne of God before he fell. Nothing figurative about references to his rebellion and fall in Gen 1:2.

Again, you make a lot of statement of 'fact' based on nothing but your opion.

We need some literal evidence from the Bible to back all you are claiming. And that is all they are at this point in time, claims. Foundationless claims.

Give one verse that literally says anything theistic evolution. Literal with properly defined words.

Well, Core, I am sorry but I think that anything I say out of "my" bible is going to be found to be a bad translation by you, if it agrees with what I share. I have given much evidence, and your preadamic theory may have to move out of the way before you can see it.

How about you try to give "your" explanation of what the word evolution means, and I do not mean the theory of it, but the actual literal meaning of evolve.

Please consider. Every human being on the planet today, had their own personal body GROW and CHANGE from one form to another through a method of PRE ordained or pre determined result. {DNA etc.}

The body of every one of us "evolved" in the womb of our natural mothers. This is pretty common knowledge today, but in times past it was a mystery as to the formation of the baby. In fact, the process of the growth and change {evolving} of one human being's body is a microcosm of the history of all mankind in the earth. It is an evolution, but it is also a PRE designed or ordained process. I understand that you believe in Divine Design. I am not really saying anything different, except I am breakingit down more deeply.

Thank you, keny

[CoreIssue]

keny, before you challenge Pre-Adamic, have the courtesy to read the thread and reply there.

You will find you are making accusations that are never even said in that thread.

[CoreIssue]

keny, organic evolution means one species changing to the point the become another species.

It does not mean just change of any kind.

Now, with that said, please allow this thread to return to it subject, being what demons are. Hijacking a thread isn't nice.

There are threads on evolution, Pre-Adamic and so on. Please post your challenges on them.

[keny]

Hello Core.

Let me ask you, in passing. Does the change in a human body from an ova in a woman that becomes the body of a human being, not denote CHANGE and change from one form to another?

Secondly, sticking to devils in this thread .. where do you literally find that SATAN was the cherub that covered. I would say that you have naturally made that transferrence, but it is not stated as Satan at all. It is supposition on the part of those who think so. It is also a very common misconception, according to my knowledge.

God bless, keny

[CoreIssue]

Hello Core.

Let me ask you, in passing. Does the change in a human body from an ova in a woman that becomes the body of a human being, not denote CHANGE and change from one form to another?
You really need to learn what evolution means before you start throwing it out there as Biblical.

I stated quite clearly change from one species to another. Not one form to another.

All life goes through developmental stages. But they remain the same species.

From fertilization of the egg to death, a human is a human. Totally human and no embryologist will argue that.

Plus, as said of John the Baptist. He reacted to Christ while still in the womb.

Secondly, sticking to devils in this thread .. where do you literally find that SATAN was the cherub that covered. I would say that you have naturally made that transferrence, but it is not stated as Satan at all. It is supposition on the part of those who think so. It is also a very common misconception, according to my knowledge.

Ezekiel 28.

The king of Tyre was not a created being. He was not perfect until sin found him. He was not in Eden. He was never in the Mount of God. He was never the guardian angel of the Throne of God. And much more.

But Satan was. There is no other candidate that fits all these points and the rest stated.

It is the Hebrew and Biblical principal of duel meaning. One aimed at the King of Tyre and placed in comparison against Satan to show the nature of the King of Tyre juxtaposioned against what Satan did.

And it talks about him dealing with nations and falling.

It is Satan in a historical context. He fell before Adam was created.

[keny]

Hello Core.

As I said, the Neanderthal and present day humans have 98 percent the same genetic signature, or something like that. There is a history of human developement able to be seen and understood in the womb. If you disagree, that is your right.

But the fetus goes through many different "forms" to reach the form it does. What you are saying is that the FLESH that changes remains flesh, but it does not mean it is the same as it was 100 million years ago or more. Take it up with the geneticists if you are still contrary, it is really a red herring subject in comparison to obedience to christ.

Bless, keny

[CoreIssue]

keny, Neanderthals are classified as just as human as we are today. You are way out of date.

Say form all you want. That is not what evolution means.