"Come only to the Father through Me"

[sparkchaser]

I am confused, this passage means to me that you must know Christ, be saved to have eternal life.
In Titus it speaks of the fact that God is shown to all men.

The God I know is a just and loving God who wants only the best for us who love him and wishes for everyone to be in heaven with him.

There have been billions of people who have lived and died on this earth, who had no possible way of knowing that Christ lived on this earth. There are people even today that have on way of knowing the plan of salvation.

How are these souls going to haven?

[CTZonEdit]

Regardless they still are under the Law and know the Law.

They know God because He has instilled the Law upon the hearts of all men. All mankind past present and future.

One is not saved until they realize that the Law condemns them to death and they need a Savior from that death. The Law reveals the truth that a man cannot save himself.

Now that man may not know Christ specifically, but they know they need God to save them. So by genuinely crying out in faith that God in his mercy and grace will save them somehow from doing the things they know are wrong and that they should not be doing the Holy Sprit enters that man.

And one who is saved will know Christ, not because they have biblical or literal knowledge of Him, but because they have the Holy Spirit within them.

And they have that Spirit because they became aware (thru the Law), repented in faith to God and were saved by grace.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

There have been billions of people who have lived and died on this earth, who had no possible way of knowing that Christ lived on this earth. There are people even today that have on way of knowing the plan of salvation.

How are these souls going to haven?

CTZ covered it pretty good above. In order to be held responsible for sin, and rejecting Christ, these people must have come to the knowledge of who Christ was, and what sin is. They did not. They are not accountable for what they did not know. Therefore, sin is not imputed to them.

Here's scriptural proof:

Romans 5:11-13:

11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

13 for until the Law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

[CoreIssue]

I will expand on what CTZ and Chrystal said.


Romans 2
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Those who do not have the Mosaic Law still have the Law of Conscience. As CTZ said, this law is in everyone's heart. Plus angels and the Holy Spirit have always worked to draw people to God.

Abram didn't have the Mosaic Law. He only had Conscience.

Romans 4
13It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Adam didn't have Conscience, at first, only one command.

Those who have the Mosaic Law have a greater knowledge of sin, thus a greater ability to do sins they are accountable for.

The NT, even more.

The point being is don't use NT texts, talking about what those with access to knowledge of Christ, to judge the salvation of those who didn't have it.

Adam had his one Command. Those after had Conscience added. Moses added more Law to those who had access to it. NT adds even more. But no one is judged on a level higher than they can access.

[CoreIssue]

13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

This reads a little easier than the KJV.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

That wasn't KJV...it was NASB. :tease:

[CoreIssue]

:wow:

[Chrystalwuzhere]

So, although some did not have law, they had the law of conscience. They know not to do things like murder, etc.

Here's a question. What if those who had no mosaic law violated the law of conscience?

[CoreIssue]

So, although some did not have law, they had the law of conscience. They know not to do things like murder, etc.

Here's a question. What if those who had no mosaic law violated the law of conscience?

Then they violated the law and were held accountable for the sin.

Many have the totally false notion God's Law = Mosaic Law. That is false. It is only part of the law.