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Sid
11-08-2006, 04:07 PM
Jesus was Mary's first born, but was He an only child?


The Scriptures have this to say:


Psalm 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.
9 For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.


Mat 13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this [man] this wisdom, and [these] mighty works?
55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this [man] all these things?


Mark 3:31 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!


Luk 8:19 Then came to him [his] mother and his brethren, and could not come at him for the press.
20 And it was told him which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.
21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.


[B]John 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.
2 Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand.
3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.
4 For [there is] no man [that] doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world.
5 For neither did his brethren believe in him.


Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.



When did the Bible matter when the Catholic Church has an agenda to push?


The RC doctrine stating that Mary, the mother of Jesus, retained her virginity after Christ’s birth and for the rest of her life is only important to RCism, it is not an essential of Christianity.



The RC teaching of Mary's perpetual virginity is a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit because it in effect accuses the Word of God of lying to us.

CoreIssue
11-08-2006, 05:35 PM
Agree.

They try to explain it away by spiritualizing all are family in Christ. Or they are cousins or something. Anything but literal brothers and sisters.

The idea that Joseph married her and then never had sex was absurd. That violates the very God given reason for marriage.

Sid
11-08-2006, 07:51 PM
They try to explain it away by spiritualizing all are family in Christ. Or they are cousins or something. Anything but literal brothers and sisters.

The idea that Joseph married her and then never had sex was absurd. That violates the very God given reason for marriage.


CI:


I have seen Catholic apologists go to such extremes as citing pious legends about Joseph being a widower and therefore being able to explain away Jesus' brothers and sisters.

. . . or redefining obstetrics / gynecology to argue that Mary's hymen was miraculously preserved intact by a Holy Spirit-induced caesarean section so that she would feel no pain since she was sinless. . .




That Jesus was an eldest brother completely satisfies the requirements of the Virgin Birth.

That Jesus was an only child is purely a RC invention and based only on legends and their man-made traditions.



Catholic Theology knows no bounds when it comes to making Scriptures, History, Science and common sense fit into their agenda.

CoreIssue
11-08-2006, 09:32 PM
Absolute agreement, Sid.

I have found discussions with RC astounding. The arrogance is amazing.

Sid
11-09-2006, 02:26 PM
I have found discussions with RC astounding. The arrogance is amazing.



In RCism, presumption has replaced faith and the RCC believes that it has everything to teach and nothing to learn.

. . . this attitude colors everything that the RCC comes out with.

Nowhere's more evident than their teaching of the perpetual virginity of Mary:




Luke is careful to tell us that she gave birth to her firstborn son, prototokon, firstborn. He does not use monogenes, only son.

The Roman Catholic Church would have you believe she had only one child and she was a perpetual virgin till her death. That is not true. She had many sons and daughters. It says, I read you a little bit ago in Matthew 1:24 and 25 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%201:24-25&version=49) that he kept her a virgin until Jesus was born.

After that Joseph and Mary had normal relationships as any other husband and wife would and they had boys and they had girls. In Matthew's gospel chapter 12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2012;&version=49;) we are introduced to Jesus' brothers.

In chapter 13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2013;&version=49;)they're even named for us. Jesus' brothers who were born to Joseph and Mary, half brothers actually, James, Joseph, Simon, Judas.

Verse 56 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2013:56;&version=49;), and His sisters are mentioned as well. You know, the crowd at that point was incredulous. They were saying...You know, Jesus...this is nobody special. They said...This is just a carpenter's son. His mother is Mary, His brothers are James and Joseph and Simon and Judas, and His sisters, they're all with us. They just looked at that family as an ordinary family. They've got a whole family full of kids.

We meet His brothers again later on. Luke records their appearance in chapter 8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%208;&version=49;). We read about His brothers in John 2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%202;&version=49;), John 7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%207;&version=49;), that they didn't believe.

We read about His brothers again in Acts 1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%201;&version=49;). Jesus was not the only son Mary had, Jesus was not the monogenes, the only begotten, He was prototokon, the firstborn.


Jesus' Birth in Bethlehem--Part 2 (http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/42-23.htm)







The perpetual virginity of Mary can only be seen as Catholic eisegesis [reading meanings into Scripture that aren't there] and circular theology to suit their prejudices and agenda.

CoreIssue
11-09-2006, 08:12 PM
The perpetual virginity of Mary can only be seen as Catholic eisegesis [reading meanings into Scripture that aren't there] and circular theology to suit their prejudices and agenda.

I have heard it. What sane and reasoning person could bite on those arguments unless they simply didn't care about the truth or incapable of reading at all?