Chosen?

[roman8]

I hope this is not a silly question, but Im going to ask it anyway.

In Romans 8 ther are alot of things said that make me wonder about something.



For those God foreknow he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son

Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen

Is it possiabe to believe you are following Christ and not actually be chosen?

[CoreIssue]

I hope this is not a silly question, but Im going to ask it anyway.

In Romans 8 ther are alot of things said that make me wonder about something.



For those God foreknow he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son

Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen

Is it possiabe to believe you are following Christ and not actually be chosen?
Yes. But that needs to be qualified.

Those who do this have invented their own rules and beliefs, or follow those of someone else.

Anyone operating honestly will look at the Bible for what it says, not what they want it to say.

Further, those who honesly want Christ and God will be led to them by the Holy Spirit. No one is ever on their own, totally dependent upon themselves.

I have debated and discussed beliefs with a lot of cults and other religions over the years. The earmark of those who want what they want, not what God wants, is they will panic and such when the truth is presented to them. You can see and feel them actively trying to avoid the truth and stay with what they want.

On the other hand, those who want the truth listen, seek to understand, want to test and prove it. They are hungry.

[eahaddix]

For those God foreknow he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son

Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen

Is it possiabe to believe you are following Christ and not actually be chosen?

In Romans 8:28-30 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%208:28-30;&version=31;), Paul is speaking about anyone who loves Elohiym (http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0430) (Romans 8:28 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%208:28;&version=31;)), not an ambiguous collective.

The saving power of Christ Jesus must be as effective as man's freewill decisions (Romans 8:28-30 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%208:28-30;&version=31;), ref. Acts 13:48 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2013:48;&version=31;)), otherwise Elohiym (http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0430) must force people to repent and love Elohiym (http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0430). However, if Elohiym (http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0430) desires the reciprocative love of their people (John 14:21, 23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2014:21,%2023;&version=31;), John 16:27 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2016:27;&version=31;)), then they would not extract forced love from their people, for forced love is not true love.

So no, you cannot follow Christ Jesus without being predestined for salvation, unless you have a form of pseudo-love for Christ Jesus.

[CoreIssue]

Good points.

God predestines those who love him in truth, not in false love of a false God. Not he predestines some to love him.

[InTheWind]

I hope this is not a silly question, but Im going to ask it anyway.

In Romans 8 ther are alot of things said that make me wonder about something.



For those God foreknow he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son

Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen

Is it possiabe to believe you are following Christ and not actually be chosen?

I believe the churches will be full of those at the rapture and they will be left behind.
Another sure sign too me that someone is not saved is someone that cusses Gods name every other word out of their mouth.
Predestined and born again is the same thing isn`t it?

[Jane Doe]

[quote=roman8;14960]I
Predestined and born again is the same thing isn`t it?

Does it? I wonder about this too.

[CoreIssue]

[quote=roman8;14960]I
Predestined and born again is the same thing isn`t it?

Does it? I wonder about this too.
No.

Predestination and being born are not the same things. This is the very dangerous idea behind Calvinism.

People are born with free wills. Choices can result in some thing God predestines to happen, but it does not mean everything that happens in your life is already planned for you. That you are a puppet responding to strings you cannot resist.

You find this thinking in many Mystic and other religions.

To say being born means your life is predestined means those who go to Hell were predestined to go there.

God does not strip the ones who love him of the right to choose. But he will ensure the options are put before you that will allow you to find him and choose him.

He ensures we go all the way to glorification because he changes our spirits to be stripped of sin nature. He forgives all our sins, past, present and future so that we are not subject to the law.

Being not subject to the law means we cannot violate law, which is the only way we can be returned to a sin natured state of rebellion.

Adam fell because he was given the option of staying with God by not eating or rebelling and falling from God by eating. That was a freewill choice in action.

We have that freewill choice by choosing to repent and leave or sinful nature behind.

God will force no one to repent. He will not force no one not to repent. But he gives everyone the option to repent, except for the innocent.

But the innocent cannot be condemned for their sins, by being held accountable.

God is fair. Total Predestination, as with Calvinism, is not.

[InTheWind]

I`ll bring this up here and maybe someone has seen this somewhere and knows exactally how it goes.
A man was put in a room with six doors, only one door is the way out. The man chooses a door and walks through it turns around too see a sign above the door that says congratulations, from God.

Was that predestination, the man used his free will but God already knew he would choose the correct door.

[CoreIssue]

Or God led him to the right door? Or made the door he chose the right one?

God guides those who love him. He does not force them.

[InTheWind]

If the sign was on onlt the one door and was there from the start then it seems that God already new he would choose that door. Even if the Holy Spirit led him to that door God would have known that and there`s nothing saying the man was saved.
I`m not saying predestination is correct just throwing up a interesting scenario.

[CoreIssue]

Got'cha!

Many confuse foreknowledge with predestination.

Knowing what would be chosen and using it to get the best outcome isn't predestination, as you said.