Mat. 24-22

[Jessie]

Jesus said "if those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened"

does this refer to the trib period?

actually ch 24 has been confusing, like which parts are for the trib and which are for before that?

[MHz]

Hi Jessie,
I take this to apply to the 7th trump and the pouring out of the 7 vials. It says great tribulation will follow tribulation (Vs:29). The time tribulation (time of trouble for all people) changes into great tribulation (time of trouble just for the wicked) is marked by this verse;
M't:24:15:
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place,
(whoso readeth, let him understand:)

The difference between tribulation and great tribulation is the speed at which it occurs, tribulation is Satan's 42 months, the vials (great tribulation) has a much shorter timeframe;
Re:18:8:
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day,
death,
and mourning,
and famine;
and she shall be utterly burned with fire:
for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Later

[TEXASGRANDMA]

could it be the last part of the tribulation?

[InTheWind]

could it be the last part of the tribulation?

That would be my opinion, the earth is so devastated by war and Gods wrath that if the Lord didn`t return when He does, at the end of the trib. no one would survive.

[MHz]

If the first two woes are Satan's wrath and they are what is determined by the 5th & 6th trumps then the 7th trump is different in two respects, God and Holy Angels are the cause of the great tribulation and, more importantly, the third woe is exclusive to to Satan and his followers.
I can see this being a benifit to the 'elect' if it is done in a very short period of time.
That the first two woes can be attributed to Satan comes from this verse;
Re:12:12:
Therefore rejoice,
ye heavens,
and ye that dwell in them.
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you,
having great wrath,
because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Those who have been a part of these kinds of 'things' would seem to be who the woe that the 7th trumpet brings is against;
Re:9:20:
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands,
that they should not worship devils,
and idols of gold,
and silver,
and brass,
and stone,
and of wood:
which neither can see,
nor hear,
nor walk:
Re:9:21:
Neither repented they of their murders,
nor of their sorceries,
nor of their fornication,
nor of their thefts.

[CoreIssue]

Yep. It is the Great Trib, which is when the curse upon Israel, as spoken of by Malachi, strikes Israel and the 7 Bowls are poured.

If God does not limit it to 3.5 years, no life would remain on the earth.

1/3 of Gentile humanity dies in the First Half of the Trib. Another 1/3 in Great Trib along with 2/3 of Israel.

In the 7th Bowl, Rome is destroyed. That is immediately followed by the Second Coming, where all who took the Mark of the Beast are slain.

The only ones remaining are the 144,000, the Woman, of which they are a part, those Jews who fled into other nations during the GT and the surviving Gentiles.

It is a guess, but it seems like upwards of 3/4 of humanity dies form the First Seal through the Second Coming.

So, indeed, if the not limited, no human would survive.

This is not something that will randomly happen future, as some believe. God, in history past, limited it to one Week, the 70th Week.

[onelove]

Quick question,does anyone knows who is considered Isreal in scriptures?,and do you all know that it is not refering to the Jews.

Do your homework on the 12 tribes for the answer,will get bact later

[CoreIssue]

Quick question,does anyone knows who is considered Isreal in scriptures?,and do you all know that it is not refering to the Jews.

Do your homework on the 12 tribes for the answer,will get bact later
That is a foundation Biblical theology issue.

Israel is the descendents of Abraham via the 12 sons of Jacob. Jacob was renamed Israel, thus in the ancient ways, the nation of his descendents were named from him. Thus Israel.

For awhile only the descendents of Judah were called Jews. Now it is a term applyiing to all the Tribes.

So, if you are going at it from the angle of Judah, then that is a profitless semantical argument.

If you are trying to go at it from the Body of Christ being Israel, then that fails, because the Body is composed of the Church and Israel, not Jews.

If you are going at it from the angle of all in Christ being spiritual Jews, then that fails because such are never defined as Israel. Jews being used here in a symbolic way of talking about covenant and union.

The division between Church and Israel is well defined in the Bible. Body is Church and Israel. The New Jerusalem is built upon the foundation of the twelve disciples and entered via the 12 walls of Israel.

Church contains both Jews and Gentiles. It never says Gentiles and Israel.

Israel is a national identity. One as national identity is as a physical nation. The other is as a covenant people.

Jews are individuals who are legal genetic lineage from Abraham.

The Mosaic Covenant was made to Israel, not Jews. When Israel failed and the covenant was negated, Israel ceased to exist as covenant nation, but the nation of Israel and Jews did not cease to exist.

My point is your question is vague. So, I tried to cover many issues here to catch your meaning in the answer.

There are just so many directions you could mean this. Talk to you later. :tiphat:

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Jessie,

Another way to look at that scripture is to say that since wrath and judgment are being poured out during the Trib and Great Trib, if those days were allowed to continue, no life would be spared. Everyone would die.

[onelove]

Here is what I mean about Isreal,taken from the book of Hosea

Hosea 1:1 "The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Herekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel.
The name Hoses" means Salvation, and by tradition, the name "Beeri" is attached to the tribe of Reuben (1 Chronicles. 5:6).
Hosea 1:2 "The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea, And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD."
This is the start of many prophecies, and by fifteen different prophets, to prophecy against the "House of Israel".
The "wife of whoredoms", is because the Northern nation refused to worship God, God's way. To worship at His altar, at His temple, in Jerusalem. Israel was divided into two nations following king Solomon's death. The name of Israel stayed with the majority of the tribes, for back in Genesis 48, Jacob told Joseph his name was "Israel" and would always be on the head of his, "Joseph's", son Ephraim.
Judah, or "The house of Israel fell into calf worship, and all forms of idolatry, Judah held fast the worshipping of the one true God, Jehovah, in God's temple in Jerusalem.
The religious forms of Israel are considered a "Woman", and all those worshipping them are considered idolatries.
The subject of this chapter is the idolatries of the Northern Kingdom, and the children, or offspring of the people of that kingdom. This woman is an idolatrous. The "Land" is "eretz" in the Hebrew, meaning "earth." The people on that land committed these sin.
Hosea 1:3 "So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son."
God ordered Hosea to go and marry a whore, "Take thee a wife of whoredoms", in verse 2.
Hosea went and did exactly as God commanded them to do. His wife's name was Gomer, and in the Hebrew meaning completion. She was the daughter of Dibiaim, which in the Hebrew has two meanings; a double cake of figs, and also is symbolical of sensual pleasure.
This, again, is an object lesson to Israel of what God is about to do to them. So pay close attention to names and events. It is not directed to the House of Judah, the Jews.
Hosea 1:4 "And the LORD said unto him, "Call his name Jezreel: for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel."
The name "Jezreel" in the Hebrew, is prophetic of a coming judgment. Note the Hebrew word, also "Paronomsia" means "Repetition in sound, but not in sense. "Jezreel" then is God's first warning to the "House of Israel" and states that a prophetic judgment is about to come upon them.
At the proper time. It is God who will avenge Israel for her wickedness and idolatry. God said "I will cause the House of Israel to cease". That means no more are they going to exist as a nation, or be identified with God, as God's people. This is not directed to the Jews, only to the 10 tribes. King Jehu, the "House of Jehu", carried out God's judgment on the House of Ahab", and committed murder. What Jehu did was not God's will, but a power grab. He then continued in the same idolatries as Ahab's Kingdom followed.
So Hosea's first son's named, "Jezreel" is God telling Israel in symbolic form, that He is about to scatter them (see also Jere. 31:10); and they will not exist as a nation anymore.
Hosea 1:5 "And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel."
In reference to "That day", is the day Israel was overthrown, and carried away by the Assyrian's. It is recorded in II Kings 18:11.
The "Bow" is "Metonymy" in the Hebrew (of the adjunct). It means "Bow" is substituted for everything representing "The house of Israel" as a nation. Their army, government, language, religion, and what ever else identifies them is belonging to the "House of Israel."
It shall and did come to pass as God spoke it, most of all the offspring of the "House of Israel" have no idea who they are or how they are attached. Yet God's prophecies of these end times is saturated with the "House of Israel" in their lands, and dealt separately from the Jews.
One key in understanding who they are is in the word "Caucasian", it is that race of people who migrated through the Caucasus Mountains, and spread out throughout the Western Europe, later to the Americas, and colonizing into nations around the world. They came through the Caucasus Mountains at exactly the same historical time as the "House of Israel" was dismantled by God's servants, the Assyrian's, and taken to an area just south of these mountains.
Hosea 1:6 "And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, "Call her name Lo-ruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away."
Hosea and Gomer have a second child, a daughter, and God told Hosea to call her name "Lo-ruhamah": which means "not compassionated", or "not beloved". This is why Paul in Romans 9:25 used the expression "not having obtained mercy, with respect to the "House of Israel"
The "house of Israel", on Israel (not Jews) were utterly dismantled, as any remembrance of being God's people. They were so scattered they forgot who they were.
Hosea 1:7 "But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, not by horsemen."
Verse seven is not a "interpolation", or "Inserting of new material" into the subject but rather a clarification that God is going to handle and treat Israel, and Judah separately from now on. Israel, God is going to divorce, while Judah He is not. Israel, and Judah are dealt with separately from now on.
God will have "No mercy" (Lo-ruhamah) on Israel; while He will show mercy of Judah, even through Judah's captivity in Babylon. "By the Lord their God", is a commitment of Jehovah to Judah.
Hosea 1:8 "Now when she weaned Lo-ruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
Hosea 1:9 "Then said God, "Call his name Lo-ammi" for ye are not My People, I will not be your God."
"Lo-Ammi" in Hebrew means "Not my people." Remember this chapter, as the book, is a symbolic gesture, using Hosea's family as a reminder of what God is going to do, and latter did, to the House of Israel" (not the Jews).
In the Hebrew text, God told Israel, "I am not (I am) to you." I am is God's eternal name. God disclaims any ownership of Israel.
"Lo-Ammi" is Hosea's third child, and through these three children, God has sent His message to Israel; "Jezreel" means, God will cease their Kingdom, "Lo-Ruhamah" means , God will not have compassion on their people; and "Lo-Ammi" means, you are not my people.
Hosea 1:10 "Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured not numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, We are not My People," there it shall be said unto them, "Ye are the sons of the living GOD."
This verse is directed to the latter days; The generation we are in now. It is talking only of the "House of Israel" (Children of Israel) and not Judah.
Today the Jews are numbered, and in World War 11, the Germans reduced that number by a large percentage. God is saying here, that you cannot number Israel, so where are Israelites?
They are comprise of all the Christian Nations around the world. All Western Europe is comprised of these Israelites; and America. The United States is Manasseh. Our Crest, seal and every thing about us is confirmed by scripture as to the makeup of Manasseh in the final generation.
Most of the false ministers are teaching a doctrine which can not exist along side the truth of the word of God; and thus attribute any prophecy directed at Israel, to the Jews. This is why their interpretation of their Bible prophecy never works out.
Many Prophets today write books explaining Bible prophecies, yet they rewrite their books, making changes to allow for the part of their prophecy which was untrue. This correction is necessary because their understanding of God's word is built upon man's traditions, and not God's word. They simply do not understand that God dealt with Israel and Judah separately. God divorced Israel, and scattered them. God allowed Israel to grow into many nations in these end times.
Today when these Israelites, divorced by God, accept God's salvation message, and come to God through Christ's shed blood, they take on a new identity. They are now called "Christians" and are known as the Son's of God. Though they are Christians, they are still "Israel" with regards to Bible Prophecy, projected ahead to our generation, and living today in Christian Nations wherever those Nations exist.
"There", in that place, "it shall be said unto (or) them, "ye are the sons of the living God". That name today is "Christian." If you do not understand that those son's of the living God or that (Christians) are Israel in our last generation, then you will be off on all kinds of interpretations regarding the end time prophecy. Judah has a totally different set of prophecies.
Judah is, and has returned to Palestine, thus planting the shoot of the Fig Tree that started the countdown in this final generation. Israel does not move back; there are simply to many of them. That is why God told Hosea, "that in the place where I said unto them, ye are not my People.", that place is where ever they happen to call home, England, Canada, the U.S.A. or where ever they are; they are to be the ones to fulfill the prophecies pertaining to "Israel", or the "House of Israel".
The two tribes to carry the name Israel, and Abraham's blessing was given to Joseph's two son's. This is recorded in Genesis 48: 14-20. The Scepter, was given to rule, over Israel and was given to Judah. Gen. 49: 8-10.
Hosea 1: 11 "Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land; for great shall be the day of Jezreel."
This "Day of Jezreel" is also called , the "Day of the LORD". It is the day that Israel will be restored with Judah as one people. We know this has not happened yet, but at the seventh trump, when our Lord Jesus Christ returns, this joining will take place. This is what Romans 11:14-16 is all about , the restoring of Israel.
It is important to fix in your mind on this separation of Israel from God, yet in the end God will bring back Israel to Christ, by means of Christ's death on the cross. Remembering that Israel and Judah are dealt with separately. At the seventh Trump the battle of Armageddon is for the protections of Judah in the middle east; while Hamon-Gog (multitude of Gog") is for the protection of Israel. By the description in Obadiah and Ezekiel 38 & 39, I believe Hamon-God will be in Alaska, or Northern Canada.

Bible Study written by Roger Christopherson

[onelove]

Just thought chapter 2 would be good also

Hosea 2:1 "Say ye unto your brethren, Ammi; and to your sisters, Ruhamah."
In the Latter days, we do greet our Friends and neighbors in God's name, and call ourselves Christians. "Ammi" means , His (God's ) people.
When we see our sister nation's of Israel, we do take compassion (Ruhamah) on them. We wish them "God's speed" when departing, and pray God's blessing upon them."
Hosea 2:2 "Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not My wife, neither am I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breast;"
Your "Mother" in this prophecy is Gomer, and she represents "the ten tribes personified by their Royal Capital." This is pleading that the Christian Nations will put away their whoredoms, referring to the idolatry and false doctrine. He is reminding them that He has divorced them, and there is only one way back to Him.
"Adulteries between her breasts", is messing with false gods, and religions in her heart.
Hosea 2:3 "Lest I strip her naked, and set her as in the day that she was born, and make her as a wilderness, set her like a dry land, and slay her with thirst."
Verse 3 refers to Ezekiel 16:23-43 where at an earlier time Jerusalem had taken in all sorts of wickedness, adultery, idolatry, whoredoms with foreign god's and religions. They gave fees to cover their sins, bribes when they had to have their way.
God said, if you don't "put away your whoredoms" (verse 2), I'll turn you over to them, and strip you naked (verse 3). In a spiritual sense, this is exactly what is happening today in the U.S.A. Most Christians are so confused they except the "Babel" of these false doctrines. They coddle sodomy, abortion, the Rapture Theory, and other false religious doctrine presented to them.
Hosea 2:4 "And I will not have mercy upon her children; for they be the children of whoredoms."
God is saying if you go whoring after these wicked things and false religions, I'll turn your kids over to them also. As they chase after false gods, my mercy will not be on them as it is not on you.
It's common for parents to teach their kids, and the kids follow what ever spiritual path their parents take, and they will lead them into false doctrine.
Historically this is exactly what happened to the old House of Israel. It is also a warning to Christians in the latter days. We must return to God's word, and teach our children how to study and live according to God's truth.
Hosea 2:5 "For their mother hath played the harlot: she that conceived them hath done shamefully; for she said, I will go after my lovers, that gave me my bread and my water, my wool and my flax, mine oil and my drink."
Go back to (verse 2) and the "mother", Gomer is the symbol used to represent the 10 tribes of the "House of Israel". This is directed to the latter days, as a type of what Israel (the Christian Nations) will be doing just before His (Christ's) return.
Israel is playing the harlot today, and this being in a spiritual sense, represents practices of idolatries. Here lovers in the old house of Israel were the religious practices of Baal's. Today we create new forms, doctrines, and methods to inject heathen religions into Christianity, and proclaim it to be of God.
Notice, there is no difference in Israel then, as there is today. They sell their souls for the same objects. These three pairs of objects are the downfall of most Christians. The three pairs include food, clothing and luxuries. All are claimed as being from her, the harlot religions.
Most ministries today are judged by the money they control; and that money comes through emotional pressure, or financial gimmicks. Promising, that if you send, then God will give. They teach in a manner to draw the money, and not teach the word of God. Yet most Christians fall for their gimmicks. The church world today is becoming starved for truth.
Hosea 2:6 "Therefore, behold, I will hedge up thy way with thorns, and make a wall, that she shall not find her paths."
Hosea uses "behold" (Asterismos in Hebrew) which is used to draw special attention to what God is about to say.
God said, "I will", and you can count on it, "hedge up thy way with thorns". That is, make your path rough and very hard to take. God is going to build "stone walls", as stated in the Hebrew, "polyptoton", to block your path.
You say you seek God, yet just as Israel went whoring 2700 years ago, Christians today place their souls into pagan religions practices just as they did back then.
Hosea 2:7 "And she follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them:" then shall she say, "I will go and return to my first husband; for then was it better with me than now."
"She" is the nation of Israel of Hosea's day, yet this refers to our day as well, and this is latter day prophecies. Historically, God cut Himself off from Israel and scattered them, exactly as He told them He would do. God divorced Israel, and erased their memory of their heritage, It's time for Christian to open their blind eyes to truth of God's word.
In this final generation, the Christian Community is chasing all sorts of religious lovers, in their search to find the truth in these end times. The problem is they refuse to read what God's word has to say. They lean to these "One verse Pastors". It seems the collection plate and their pension is the only thing on these false prophets minds.
God says if you chase them, He will cut you lose and allow you to believe their lies, such as the rapture doctrine, positive thinking, and other heathen religious forms blended together in order to draw you in, through your ignorance of the scriptures.
Hosea 2:8 "For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied her silver and god, which they prepared for Baal."
All the blessing God gave to Old Israel, those ancient Israel Fathers refused to thank and honor God for them. Instead they threw their blessing at the feet of the whores of pagan religions.
It is no different today then it was in Hosea's day. Today America and the rest of the Christian world attributes it's wealth to themselves, and wastes their tithes on the steps of Satan's synagogues. Those Churches teaching their flock to love what God hates (like Sodomy), accepting the Antichrist through false doctrine, and just being lazy about your spiritual armor in these latter days.
God says he will seal his chosen the elect, and those 144,000 of Revelation 5 & 6, then He will let Satan and His Locust army have the rest.
Just as Assyria was God's servant to carry out God's judgment on Israel; so in their latter days Satan the Antichrist, will administer God's judgment to our generation. Now is the time to wake up !
Hosea 2:9 "Therefore will I return, and take away My corn in the time thereof, and My wine in the season thereof, and will recover My wool and My flax given to cover her nakedness."
God is warning, "will I return" in judgment. The "corn" is the truth of God's word, and the "wine", is the salvation we have through the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the Cross. The garments are the fine clothing in Christ's Kingdom we will wear that are made up of our righteous acts for God.
Now to make it come alive, historically we know that the Assyrian's stripped Israel Naked, in fact physically.
However, this is addressed to the children of the latter days. That's our generation. The Christian world (Israel) is duplicating the acts of Old Israel, and God is fed-up with most Christians today.
God is saying to us today, if you do not study my word and put on your spiritual armor (Ephesians 6:10-20); and you want to substitute for my way, the blood of Christ; and throw your righteous acts at the feet of idols, and foreign god's; then I will withhold my truth from you (block your understanding), deny you before my father, and your righteousness will become as filthy rags. God will take back what he offered you.
Hosea 2:10 "And now will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and none shall deliver her out of Mine hand."
This verse is a double witness to Ezekiel 23:29. Spiritually God will strip you naked, leave you dumb, and blind on all spiritual matters. Then upon His return, your shame will be unbearable, you'll wish to be dead, but you can't because your soul can only be killed by God following the judgment.
Hosea 2:11 "I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her Sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.:"
Israel (the Christian world) today has no idea in the world what days were precious to our Lord. God set aside special feast days so the children of Israel would never forget His love, salvation in Egypt, Protection in the wilderness, and many miracles God preformed for His children.
Most Christians honor days that are smothered in heather customs.
Hosea 2:12 "And I will destroy her vines and her fig trees, whereof she hath said, "These are my rewards that my lovers have given me: "and I will make them a forest, and the beasts of the field shall eat them."
The word "rewards:" is a technical term (reference Deuteronomy 23:18) for a fee charged for service.
Because Israel gave credit to service of their own hands, and fees charged for service and crops, instead of the blessings; God said, I'll destroy her, and lay her to waste. see (Ps. 105:33).
If you think what you have is by your hands; God's going to start punching big holes in your money bags. His servants, the "Kenites", are very skilled at taking your money and property. That is the "vine and fig tree" in modern day language.
God does not appreciate you throwing gifts away that He has given to you into idolatrous acts, and to false prophets. He would rather the "Kenites" and other "beasts of the field" eat the fruits of your labor, then it be given to idolatry.
Hosea 2:13 "And I will visit upon her the days of Baalim, wherein she burned incense to them, and she decked herself with her earrings and her jewels, and she went after her lovers, and forget Me. saith the LORD."
God said "I will visit", I will remember those days you decked yourself out in fine jewelry and fine apparel, and went to those heathen (Baalim) festivals.
Those Sunday morning sunrise services on Easter morning to honor "Ishtar" the God of fertility. You don't remember Passover, but you remember to roll those eggs, a fertility right to Ishtar.

In ignorance? yes, but you have no desire to stop traditional heathen customs.
Hosea 2:14 "Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortable unto her."
"Behold" ; this word is a special reminder to us. God said, because you seek not my word, he is going to dry the truth so you won’t understand, and this is exactly what Joel 1 prophesied, that just before the end time when the Locust army of fallen angels, and Kenites come, the word of God, is free, and understandable. Yet, after their arrival the earth is desolate wilderness, totally void of truth, but full of deception, lies, and confusion. You want to believe lies, and chase harlot religions; then God will give them to you.
Hosea 2:15 "And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt."
This verse is telling of the hope that exist upon Christ 's return. The time is coming when all eyes will be opened, and those who acted in ignorance, and under false prophets will have their eyes opened.
Their "Valley of Achor" (trouble) will become the door of hope, and the singing of the Saint's will be as the singing was, when the children of Israel departed out of Egypt.
Hosea 2:16 "And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call
Me Ishi; and shalt call Me no more Baali."
This day is "the day of the Lord". Christ has returned, Satan is in the pit, and false prophets, Kenites, and all the fallen Angles are bound for the day of Judgment.
Israel on that day will not call Christ my Lord, but "Ishi", My husband. All knees on that day will bow to Him as King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.
Hosea 2: 17 "For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, they shall no more be remembered in their name."
All forms of idolatry, and heathen gods will be gone forever. Satan will have been revealed as the fake, and in the Millennium it will be a time of teaching and discipline.
Hosea 2: 18 "And in that day will I made a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely."
This is life in the Millennium, and in that Kingdom the Lord Jesus Christ will make a New Covenant with Israel which will be eternal.
This covenant is spoken of in Ezekiel 34:25, and Isaiah 11:6-9. It will be a time of true peace, and full understanding. There will not even be the thought of warfare.
Hosea 2: 19 "And I will betroth thee unto Me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto Me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies."
Those who betroth themselves to Christ in the Millennium, are those who did not partake of Satan, and his one world system, his name or number. They stood fast. The other ones who fell for the wrong Christ (Antichrist) will not get their spiritual bodies, until after the judgment. Grace is not offered to them, but they come by their righteous acts in the Millennium. Our Lord and Heavenly Father loves all his children, and those misguided will not be judged on the teachings that they are receiving today. However, if they do understand and bow to Satan there is no forgiveness.
In that five month period of Revelation 9: 1-10, God will block their minds from understanding to protect their souls. Christ will love his bride, protect, cherish, and show mercy to her as any loving man to his bride.
Hosea 2: 20 "I will even betroth thee unto Me in faithfulness; and thoushalt know the LORD."
This is a total commitment of God to his bride. Do you know Him. Have you placed your protective armor on to do spiritual battle with Satan? The next world war is a spiritual one.
Hosea 2: 21 "And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;''
The restoration of Christ's Kingdom, Israel, comes from, and begins with Jehovah Himself. This is the answer, or response to Zechariah 8:12.
"They shall hear", the text reads "prosopoporia"; which indicates all of Israel will hear and have full understanding.
Hosea 2: 22 "And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel."
Jezreel is the seed that God will sow, and reap, as stated in verse 23. God is calling Israel back to him. In that day all of "the House of Israel and Judah alike, will join into one, and represent God's people.
Hosea 2:23 "And I will sow her unto Me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not My People, Thou art My People; and they shall say, "Thou art my God."
Remember back in chapter one, God told Hosea to name His three children to show in symbolic form how He would disown, divorce and scatter Israel for their idolatrous acts.
Well, here in the Millennium, God tells us how He will sow the word in their minds, and draw them back to Him. God is reaching out to them.

[CoreIssue]

Ah, yes. I began reading and alarm bells went off immediately.

It says not associated with The Shepherd's Chapel, but it most assuredly shared beliefs with it.

With respect, those doctrines are Biblical. Arnold Murray and that line of thinking is considered a cult by the vast majority of Christianity.

Of course we can discuss the issues. No problem.

But any form of Anglo-Israelism is in trouble immediately. Without even getting into other issues.

[onelove]

So who or what is Israel today?

[onelove]

In the Bible, who Are The People Of The House Of Israel, the House Of Judah, The Jews, And The Kenites?
The difference between the peoples of Israel, Judah, the Jews, and the Kenites (the sons of Cain, the first murderer):
First of all, when studying Biblical history and prophecy, you mustn't confuse the House of Israel with the House of Judah. When you see the 'House of Israel' written of in the scriptures, it refers to the Ten Northern Tribes of Israel (now referred to as the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel). But when you see the 'House of Judah' spoken of, it refers to the Southern Kingdom consisting of peoples of the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
Originally, when the Houses were still joined together, there were twelve Tribes. These Twelve Tribes became split into two Houses, one called the Northern Kingdom with it's Capitol at Sumaria, and the other called the Southern Kingdom with it's Capitol at Jerusalem. To this very day they are split, with the Ten Northern tribes having lost all knowledge of their identity, as was prophesied of to happen in Scripture:
Rom 11:25
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (KJV)
But what ever became of Israel (the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel)? After a three years siege and the final fall of Samaria with it's becoming of an Assyrian Province in 611 BC (722 BC by profane history), Israel ceased to be and dropped out of history.
But Israel (the Ten Lost Tribes) were never lost to God, they migrated North over the Caucasus Mountains (where we get our word 'Caucasian' from) and settled Europe, eventually populating Scotland, Ireland, Britain, Iceland, and ultimately crossing westward over the seas and established the Americas.
Yes we are the descendants of the lost Northern Ten Tribes of Israel. We are the chosen people of God. Look around the world, who is the last light of hope in the world? That does not mean that we are Jewish, for as you see by the division of the original 12 tribes descended from Jacob; Judah is only one of those tribes. As of Sep 18, 2000, there are only 13 million Jews on the planet (as per www.adherents.com), that is less than 1% of the total global population which is 6,099,686,302 (6 billion plus) as of 4:04 EDT Oct 1, 2000 per Popclock. But in God's covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob He promised:
Gen 13:16
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered. (KJV)

Gen 17:4
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. (KJV)

Gen 28:14
14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. (KJV)

Gen 35:11
11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; (KJV)

Gen 32:12
12 And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude. (KJV)
Rom 9:27
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: (KJV)
You do believe God don't you? Well then, where are all these people now?!? Those that we now call 'Jews' today are only a portion of the true Tribe of Judah who have intermixed with their Babylonian captors, the heathen and profane descendants of Cain, the first murderer. In other words, all those of the tribe of Judah are not Jews, and none of the lost Ten Tribes are Jews. It is important to understand the differences so that you know who the Bible is speaking about in a particular verse.
That is why in the New Testament, those who betrayed Christ and forced Pontius Pilot's hand into crucifying Jesus Christ were the High Jewish Priest Ca'-ia-phas and the Jewish Temple Hierarchy. They were corrupted both in morals and genealogy, and this explains why Jesus called them 'sons of Cain,' the son of the devil {Jn 8:44} whom was the first murderer in the Garden of Eden. Cain was not of the 12 tribes of Jacob (Israel and Judah combined), but his offspring, the Kenites, which means sons (offspring, no gender implied) of Cain, had intermixed with someof the true Tribe of Judah. These Kenites have mixed with all races and tribes of people on the earth. A Kenite is a descendant of Cain, the same Cain who was the first murderer in the Garden of Eden. Below is a definition from the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (http://biblestudysite.com/studyaids.htm#languages):
Kenite: Hebrew word #7017 Qeyniy (kay-nee'); or Qiyniy (1st Chron. 2:55) (kee-nee'); patronymic from Hebrew word #7014 (see below); a Kenite or member of the tribe of Kajin:
Cain: Hebrew word #7014 Qayin: As a proper noun, masculine: Cain = "possession"; the oldest son of Adam and Eve and the first murderer, having murdered his brother Abel.
There are many books on the migrations of the Ten Tribes of Israel and our Ancestors, here are several that we feature and review in our Study Aids (http://biblestudysite.com/studyaids.htm) section that will document the above statements. These are ordering links, if you just want to read the review without necessarily getting the book, just click on Study Aids (http://biblestudysite.com/studyaids.htm) and you can read the review, and order there or just go directly to them here: Jacob's pillar (http://biblestudysite.com/studyaids.htm#capt), Stonehenge and Druidism (http://biblestudysite.com/studyaids.htm#capt), Traditions of Glastonbury, (http://biblestudysite.com/studyaids.htm#capt) Celt, Druid and Culdee, (http://biblestudysite.com/studyaids.htm#other) Saint Paul in Britain (http://biblestudysite.com/studyaids.htm#capt), Discovery of Ancient America (http://biblestudysite.com/studyaids.htm#other) The reason we put all these links within the studies is to offer the ability to explore certain points raised that can take several pages, or even volumes, to fully document."

Study by Nick Goggin

[onelove]

Who is a Jew?


First of all, God made His covenant with Israel, not with so-called Jews. The Jews didn't come into being until approx 500 b.c. during (and after) the Babylonian captivity. God made His covenant with Israel well over a 1000 years before there was any such thing as a "Jew." Those today who call themselves "Jews" are impostors and are not of Israel. For a "Jew" is a religion, not a race.
The word "Jew" did not appear in any Bible until the 18th century. The modern day word “Jew” is the 18th century contracted and corrupted English word for the 4th century Latin “Iudaeus” found in St. Jerome’s Vulgate Edition.

Two best known 18th century editions of the New Testament in English are the Rheims (Douai) and the King James Version Bible (the A.V. or Authorized Version). The Rheims (Douai) translation of the New Testament was first printed in 1582 but the word “Jew” did not appear in it. The King James Authorized translation of the New Testament into English was begun in 1604 and first published in 1611. The word “Jew” did not appear in it either. The word “Jew” appeared in both these well known editions in their 18th century revised versions for the first times.

Herein lies the confusion that is exploited by the impostors. What are commonly referred to as "Jews" today are not the people that the Holy Spirit was speaking of in the Bible. In the Bible, the word "Jew" means Judean. But today (from the 1700's on) a 'certain' people adopted the title "Jew" and have moved right into the place of chosen Israel. In the Bible, the word “Jew” means anyone of the region of Judea, or, any of the house of Judah. One must take each Scripture by itself to determine which meaning is to be affixed.

However, today, the word “Jew” means a follower of Judaism, which is the corrupted religion of the Old Testament era Hebrews founded during the Babylonian captivity of approx. 500 b.c. It is not the religion of the Hebrews in the Old Testament handed down from God to Moses on the Mount, but rather, it is a Babylonian corruption of that religion founded not on the Old Testament Scriptures but rather upon the Babylonian Talmud (added writings, the oral TRADITIONS of the ancient Rabbis) and the Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism). These facts are not disputed by the Rabbis themselves

In the Bible you see the term "Jew" used quite a bit. But it isn't in the same sense that we today use the term "Jew." The Word Jew in the Bible can mean two different things: either a descendant of the tribe of Judah OR a person from the land of Judaea (the region in which Jerusalem resides, a 'county' or 'province' so to speak) but not necessarily of the tribe of Judah. it's like you can be an Irishman and live in Germany and yet not be a German. Don't let the different languages and the names in them confuse you on this. Observe:


Jew: Greek word #2453 Ioudaios (ee-oo-dah'-yos); from #2448 (in the sense of #2455 as a country); Judaean, i.e. belonging to Jehudah ["Judah" in Hebrew language of Old Testament] : KJV-- Jew (-ess), of Judaea.

Greek word #2448 Iouda (ee-oo-dah'); of Hebrew origin [Hebrew word #3063 or perhaps #3194]; Judah (i.e. Jehudah or Juttah), a part of (or place in) Palestine: KJV-- Judah.

Greek word #2455 Ioudas (ee-oo-das'); of Hebrew origin [Hebrew #3063]; Judas (i.e. Jehudah), the name of ten Israelites; also of the posterity of one of them and its region: KJV-- Juda (-h, -s); Jude.

Judaea: 1). In a narrower sense, to the southern portion of Palestine lying on this side of the Jordan and the Dead Sea, to distinguish it from Samaria, Galilee, Peraea, and Idumaea. 2). In a broader sense, referring to all Palestine.

So in the Bible when you see someone referred to as a "Jew" it could mean a 'good' one like those Jews whom believed upon Jesus Christ, OR, it could mean a 'bad' one like the Jews that sought to kill Jesus Christ:

Acts 2:5 (good)
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. (KJV)

John 7:1(bad)
1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him. (KJV)

Just because you see someone called a "Jew" in the Bible does not necessarily mean that they are a devote chosen man of God, nor, necessarily an evil person with corrupt religion. You have to take each one in context of the Scripture, the Scripture will let you know which kind of 'Jew' is being spoken about. That is what "Jew" means in the Bible, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the so-called "Jews" of today.


"Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a "Jew." Or to call a contemporary Jew [an] "Israelite," or a "Hebrew." The first Hebrews may not have been Jews at all, and contemporary Palestinians, by their own definition of the term "Palestinian," have to include Jews among their own people."

--The Jewish Almanac, Oct., 1980, page 3, Bantam Books, Inc. Under a headline entitled... 'IdentityCrisis'.

[CoreIssue]

Who is a Jew?
A generic term for all descendents of Abraham. A term that has evolved in meaning over time.
First of all, God made His covenant with Israel, not with so-called Jews.
Thus Jews are of Israel, since they were part of the nation the covenant was made with.
The Jews didn't come into being until approx 500 b.c. during (and after) the Babylonian captivity. God made His covenant with Israel well over a 1000 years before there was any such thing as a "Jew." Those today who call themselves "Jews" are impostors and are not of Israel. For a "Jew" is a religion, not a race.

Garbage.

Trying to worm this around to Anglos being Israel is futile argument.
The word "Jew" did not appear in any Bible until the 18th century. The modern day word “Jew” is the 18th century contracted and corrupted English word for the 4th century Latin “Iudaeus” found in St. Jerome’s Vulgate Edition.

You are creating a false argument here.

Jews were a slang for those of Judah. Judah most assuredly was a Tribe of Israel.

Playing semantical games here does not change that reality. Nor does it change the fact the generic term has come to apply to one of Israelite descent.

But today (from the 1700's on) a 'certain' people adopted the title "Jew" and have moved right into the place of chosen Israel.
A bad attempt to defend the Ango-Israeli doctrine. Which is false doctrine.
However, today, the word “Jew” means a follower of Judaism,
No. You are showing your ignorance.

Being a member of the religion of Judaism does not make one Jewish.
In the Bible you see the term "Jew" used quite a bit. But it isn't in the same sense that we today use the term "Jew." The Word Jew in the Bible can mean two different things: either a descendant of the tribe of Judah OR a person from the land of Judaea
Totally false.

Paul never used it in any other context than a descendent of Abraham.

Historically the usages were Jew (descendent of Abraham) and Judean, from Judea.
So in the Bible when you see someone referred to as a "Jew" it could mean a 'good' one like those Jews whom believed upon Jesus Christ, OR, it could mean a 'bad' one like the Jews that sought to kill Jesus Christ:

But it always meant descendent of Abraham.
Just because you see someone called a "Jew" in the Bible does not necessarily mean that they are a devote chosen man of God, nor, necessarily an evil person with corrupt religion. You have to take each one in context of the Scripture, the Scripture will let you know which kind of 'Jew' is being spoken about. That is what "Jew" means in the Bible, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the so-called "Jews" of today.

There were good and bad Jews in OT.

God never spoke of Israel as only meaning those who were with him. Even when sent into captivity they were still covenant Israel.

You are attempting to establish false definitions and demand here to defend Ango-Israelism.

And that will never fly.

A Jews in American is an American. That does not make all Americans Jews. Nor does it disallow an American from being a Jews.

Being in Judaism or not in, as well, does not make one a Jew, or disallow being a Jews.

Paul, a Christian, most assuredly called himself a Jew. Which eliminates the Judaism demand and make it a genetic demand when he spoke on that level.

But when he spoke spiritually, a genetic Jew might or might not be a spiritaul Jews.

You are missing the key points. Paul differentiated between physical Jews, spiritual Jews and Gentiles. He most assuredly saw 4 groups. Two genetically and two spiritually based.

[onelove]

Question,who are the most blessed nations on the planet today?is it not the christian nations,that right there alone should tell you who the decendants of Abraham are.

[CoreIssue]

Question,who are the most blessed nations on the planet today?is it not the christian nations,that right there alone should tell you who the decendants of Abraham are.
Not physical descendents. Spiritual ones.

Being Christian does not make one physical Israel.

The geneticists can track the origins of people back thousands of years. Angos are not Jews.

Israel's heart is hardened. It will not soften until the Second Coming. That is Biblical.

Do you not understand that the Covenant with Abraham MUST be fulfilled via his genetic descendants?

There are Blacks, American Indians, Asians and lot of others who are Christian. Being Christian is not genetically based.

This ranks right there with the Blacks who claim whites usurped their heritage and that they are to true Israel.

Give some evidence to back this claim. You cannot.