another question..

[Jessie]

this is in reference to my question on the pit.

could we go over Rev. 9 in reading it its all kindof confusing.
these things come out of the pit, but it looks like man is doing it

[CoreIssue]

this is in reference to my question on the pit.

could we go over Rev. 9 in reading it its all kindof confusing.
these things come out of the pit, but it looks like man is doing it
The Star is Satan thrown down.

He is given authority (which a meaning of key) to open the Pit.

Satan is also the king of the Pit/Abyss.

[Jessie]

I dont understand when it says things come out of the pit, but yet,
it looks like mitary stuff...

[CoreIssue]

I dont understand when it says things come out of the pit, but yet,
it looks like mitary stuff...
What comes out of the Pit are the locusts. They are demons and are not allowed to kill anyone.

The 4 demons come out and tempt China to attack. The 200 Mil do not come out of the pit, are human, are military and the kill 1/3 of the earths population.

Note it does not say the kill and are unharmed. So they are part of the 1/3 to die, at least in part.

You are mixing issues. 4 demons and the locusts come out of the Pit.

The 200 Mil do not come out of the Pit.

[onelove]

Revelation 9:1 "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit [pit of the abyss]."
The "star" that falls to the earth is the star of Isaiah 14. The star is "Lucifer", who will be the Antichrist once he arrives on earth. Satan is given the key, or authority to the bottomless pit, for this is where Satan's fallen angels are held.
Satan is to be God's executioner of God's divine wrath that is to be poured out upon the earth. God is going to give Satan the right to have his way with all who are blind to God's Word.
Remember, God removed the wall of protection around Job; for Satan. The only stipulation God gave Satan was that he was not allowed to take Job's life. Job had the will; Satan did the testing, and God allowed it. This is an example of what is to happen in these end times; and that is why we must be ready, and with our spiritual armor on.
Right now, today, Satan is not in that bottomless pit, but in heaven. He is the accuser of the saints before the throne of God. The fallen angels are in the pit, or the abyss. The pit is not a place, or location, but a point of degradation. It's a similar statement to Satan being told he would always crawl on his belly, as the serpent. No Satan never became a snake, but he was a deceiver and his actions were as that of a snake.

Revelation 9:3 "And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power."
This locust army that comes upon the earth is Satan's army of demonic forces. They are the fallen angels, and demons, both coming with Satan, and those that are already here upon the earth.
The "power" in the Greek, is "exousia"; it means "authority", or delegated power by God to them. It is the right to carry out the wrath of God, in His [God's] behalf. When they strike, or exert their power on the deceived, it is a spiritual power, as we see in Ephesians 6:10-20. This is because we are in a spiritual battle against Satan and His forces.

The scorpion has a tail with a stinger in the tail. When they strike their prey, he sneaks up to it's prey and infects it's poison into the victim. Near it's mouth, it has a set of pinchers where it latches on to it's victim and pulls it to it's mouth. This is important, because the scorpion has no stomach, so it cannot digest it's own food within itself. Therefore the scorpion stings with the poison of it's tail to paralyze the victim, and then it vomits it's digestive juices [acids] into the body of the victim, then the victim's skin and body actually become the scorpion's stomach.
The acids turn everything it touches into mush. Then the scorpion inhales the mush from the victim's body and is gone. The victim is left defenseless from the beginning of the scorpion's strike, because the poison from the tail rendered the circulatory system and nervous system totally paralyzed, while the digestive acids turned the body to mush. Once stung by a scorpion, instantly you have no defense. You can't fight, run, or even think. You lay helpless to the devouring process of the scorpion.
Now that we see how the scorpion attacks, and the methods used by them; let's apply their methods, to Satan and that of this locust army. Satan and his army of fallen angels will take the lies [traditions] within your religion, and the false teaching that you believe to be true; and use it against you. All religions, Christian and otherwise, will be approached on the level and beliefs of their own understanding. They will use the doctrines of their choosing, and through that, the spiritual darts of lies and deception will come.
Like the scorpion uses your body for it's battle, and attack, so the angels of the locust army [not human] will use your mind as it's battleground. That is why you must be sealed in your mind [see verse 4] and with the proper armor on, which again is in Ephesians 6:10-20. Your battle is a spiritual one with the king of all demons, Satan, and he is ready for you.
The Antichrist has the authority from God, and the right to do business on earth, from the giver of all authority. He knows all your weaknesses, and he knows the Word as well as any theologian. Satan is set to do battle in your mind; and if your relying on false doctrine; like the rapture theory, your gone before the battle starts. If Revelation is still a mystery to you, you don't have a prayer of a chance.
You are about to go against the master of all deception, and the truth of God's word is the only thing Satan can't fight against. That is because the truth written in God's Word sets the limits God placed upon him as the Antichrist. How are you doing, friend?
The great apostasy is now taking place, and well underway. It is being put in place by Satan's kids, the "Kenites", doing the interpretation of God's Word for you if you allow them. They have a club, and it is easy to join; you just accept their dogma. Part of it is given through the "World Council of Churches", and the other parts are in any church that allows it's doctrine to vary even the slightest into false teaching.
Remember, only the "sealed of God", in your mind will allow your escape from all of the Antichrist's deceptions.

Bible Study written by Roger Christopherson

[CoreIssue]

Revelation 9:1 "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit [pit of the abyss]."
The "star" that falls to the earth is the star of Isaiah 14. The star is "Lucifer", who will be the Antichrist once he arrives on earth. Satan is given the key, or authority to the bottomless pit, for this is where Satan's fallen angels are held.
No. Satan is not the AC. The AC is a distinact personage.

In Revelation 13 we see the False Trinity laid out. Dragon is Satan, First Beast is the AC and the Second Beast is the False Prophet. 3 distinct persons.

And no, the fallen angels do not rise from the Pit. Jude tells us they are imprisoned until judgement day, which is the White Throne at the end of time.
Satan is to be God's executioner of God's divine wrath that is to be poured out upon the earth. God is going to give Satan the right to have his way with all who are blind to God's Word.

The AC is the First Seal. He is an agent of God's wrath. Satan at Mid is another aspect.

But the Bowls of God's wrath come directly from Heaven and directly from God. They are not of Satan. They operate directly upon the physical universe.
Remember, God removed the wall of protection around Job; for Satan. The only stipulation God gave Satan was that he was not allowed to take Job's life. Job had the will; Satan did the testing, and God allowed it. This is an example of what is to happen in these end times; and that is why we must be ready, and with our spiritual armor on.

It is an example. I agree. But the Trib will be worse.
Right now, today, Satan is not in that bottomless pit, but in heaven. He is the accuser of the saints before the throne of God. The fallen angels are in the pit, or the abyss.
Agree.
The pit is not a place, or location, but a point of degradation.
No. The Pit is a real place. It is where Hell and Paradise (now empty) exist.

Hell is not a condition, but a prison. Satan is imprisoned in a real place, not a condition, for the 1,000 years.

At the White Throne Hell is emptied. All it contents end up in the eternal Lake of Fire. Another real place.
It's a similar statement to Satan being told he would always crawl on his belly, as the serpent. No Satan never became a snake, but he was a deceiver and his actions were as that of a snake.

Satan was never told he would crawl on his belly. The snake, whose cunning was why Satan took that form was.
Revelation 9:3 "And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power."
This locust army that comes upon the earth is Satan's army of demonic forces. They are the fallen angels, and demons, both coming with Satan, and those that are already here upon the earth.

The Fallen Angels are bound until the White Throne Judgement per Jude.

Fallen Angels are not the demons on the earth today.
The "power" in the Greek, is "exousia"; it means "authority", or delegated power by God to them. It is the right to carry out the wrath of God, in His [God's] behalf. When they strike, or exert their power on the deceived, it is a spiritual power, as we see in Ephesians 6:10-20. This is because we are in a spiritual battle against Satan and His forces.

The problem with false doctrine are they try to turn everything allogorical, symbolic and so on. But they have no way or proving what they claim is true.

It says the locusts have stingers that cause great physical suffering. So it means physical suffering.

Literal words with literal meanings. That needs no extra proof. Your claim is unprovable.
The scorpion has a tail with a stinger in the tail. When they strike their prey, he sneaks up to it's prey and infects it's poison into the victim. Near it's mouth, it has a set of pinchers where it latches on to it's victim and pulls it to it's mouth. This is important, because the scorpion has no stomach, so it cannot digest it's own food within itself. Therefore the scorpion stings with the poison of it's tail to paralyze the victim, and then it vomits it's digestive juices [acids] into the body of the victim, then the victim's skin and body actually become the scorpion's stomach.
The acids turn everything it touches into mush. Then the scorpion inhales the mush from the victim's body and is gone. The victim is left defenseless from the beginning of the scorpion's strike, because the poison from the tail rendered the circulatory system and nervous system totally paralyzed, while the digestive acids turned the body to mush. Once stung by a scorpion, instantly you have no defense. You can't fight, run, or even think. You lay helpless to the devouring process of the scorpion.
Now that we see how the scorpion attacks, and the methods used by them; let's apply their methods, to Satan and that of this locust army. Satan and his army of fallen angels will take the lies [traditions] within your religion, and the false teaching that you believe to be true; and use it against you. All religions, Christian and otherwise, will be approached on the level and beliefs of their own understanding. They will use the doctrines of their choosing, and through that, the spiritual darts of lies and deception will come.
Like the scorpion uses your body for it's battle, and attack, so the angels of the locust army [not human] will use your mind as it's battleground. That is why you must be sealed in your mind [see verse 4] and with the proper armor on, which again is in Ephesians 6:10-20. Your battle is a spiritual one with the king of all demons, Satan, and he is ready for you.

Now prove that is what it means, since you deny what it says literally.

You cannot prove anything. A fanciful idea that is no more provable than many others I have heard that deny the literal words.

Your doctrine on this is no better and just as unprovable as theirs. Thus meaningless.

Post your proof. Not your theories. Not your assumptoins. But proofs.
The Antichrist has the authority from God, and the right to do business on earth, from the giver of all authority. He knows all your weaknesses, and he knows the Word as well as any theologian. Satan is set to do battle in your mind; and if your relying on false doctrine; like the rapture theory, your gone before the battle starts. If Revelation is still a mystery to you, you don't have a prayer of a chance.

And what oracle gave you the right interpretation? What proofs do you have for such a dramatic declaration?

Post them. Show us the proofs. Not assumptions and theories, but proofs.

The Rapture is not a theory. Revelation 3:10 and the Elders at the First Seal show it is very real. Along with many other verses.

No. My Bible says nothing given is of private interpretation, meaning we need no Chosen Oracle Prophet to tell us the revealed meaning. We can read the words and understand them for what they say and mean.

No Heavenly Dictionary. No Heavenly Grammar.

The Bible was written in everyday human language and is to be read there. The greater meanings and messages are learned by earnest study under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

But the study never defies the rules of grammar and word meaning.
You are about to go against the master of all deception, and the truth of God's word is the only thing Satan can't fight against. That is because the truth written in God's Word sets the limits God placed upon him as the Antichrist. How are you doing, friend?

Satan isn't the AC. And we battle Satan and the demons today, by the power of God.
The great apostasy is now taking place, and well underway.
Agree. And these new cults, like Murray's and more, with his Kenite Doctrine, are out there in growing numbers.
It is being put in place by Satan's kids, the "Kenites", doing the interpretation of God's Word for you if you allow them.
Murray's Kenite doctrine is utter foolishness.

They are not descendents of Cain, unless you would have all peoples on the earth Kenite, now.

ALL peoples now are descendent of Noah via his sons.

Yes, they had wives, but ancestory is based upon the male. Thus all are of Noah, now.

You really need to stop and think about logic and reality here.

The Kenites were never enemies of Israel.

Adam was the father of Cain. Satan, an angel was incapable of siring children. Angels are neither male nor female, the are not human kind and only kind can produce kind.

Sperm is living. Satan could not create sperm.

The Kenite doctrine is non-Biblical, nonsense and totally illogical.
They have a club, and it is easy to join; you just accept their dogma. Part of it is given through the "World Council of Churches", and the other parts are in any church that allows it's doctrine to vary even the slightest into false teaching.
No one here has any use for WCC, cults and so on teaches. None.
Remember, only the "sealed of God", in your mind will allow your escape from all of the Antichrist's deceptions.

The seal of God is the Holy Spirit. Every saint has him.

Is the Great Apostacy here? Yes.

The existence and ability of cults like Murray's, to speak out, is proof.

You are in a cult. You need to get out.

[love4oneanother]

Quote

"No. Satan is not the AC. The AC is a distinact personage.

In Revelation 13 we see the False Trinity laid out. Dragon is Satan, First Beast is the AC and the Second Beast is the False Prophet. 3 distinct persons.

And no, the fallen angels do not rise from the Pit. Jude tells us they are imprisoned until judgement day, which is the White Throne at the end of time."

Reply

You just really dont think you can be wrong! do you?

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=2 Thessalonians+2:3&version=9) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=2 Thessalonians+2&version=9)
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Do you know who the son of perdition is?better yet do you know what it means?
perdition means to perish,at this time satan is the only one by name who is sentenced to die,the others not named are the fallen angels

Revelation 11:13 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Revelation+11:13&version=9) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Revelation+11&version=9)
And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

This happens on the first day of the milinnum the seven thousand that die are the fallen angels

Quote

"The AC is the First Seal. He is an agent of God's wrath. Satan at Mid is another aspect"

Reply

As I just proved satan is the anti christ anti in the greek means instead of .

If you think that these are actual locust coming up,you are a fool ,to sum it up more plainly you are an irogant fool who thinks he knows everything.

Quote

"Adam was the father of Cain. Satan, an angel was incapable of siring children. Angels are neither male nor female, the are not human kind and only kind can produce kind.

Sperm is living. Satan could not create sperm."

Reply

Genesis 6:4 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Genesis+6:4&version=9) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Genesis+6&version=9)
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown

So who were these sons of God,and dont show your ignorance by saying they were men

Genesis 3:15 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Genesis+3:15&version=9) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Genesis+3&version=9)
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

What is seed in this verse?


1) seed, sowing, offspring
a) a sowing
b) seed
c) semen virile
d) offspring, descendants, posterity, children
e) of moral quality
1) a practitioner of righteousness (fig.) f) sowing time (by meton

Give you proof and still dont believe it,do you?

Quote

"The Rapture is not a theory. Revelation 3:10 and the Elders at the First Seal show it is very real. Along with many other verses."

Reply

The rapture is a theory man made,Revelation 3:10 proves no such thing

Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation [trial], which shall [that hour that is to] come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Revelation 3:11 "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."

Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Je-ru'-sa-lem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

Did you notice what 3:12 says?Does it not say those who overcome?Now please tell me how you can overcome something if you are not here to overcome it?

[eahaddix]

Quote

"Adam was the father of Cain. Satan, an angel was incapable of siring children. Angels are neither male nor female, the are not human kind and only kind can produce kind.

Sperm is living. Satan could not create sperm."

Reply

Genesis 6:4 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Genesis+6:4&version=9) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Genesis+6&version=9)
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown

So who were these sons of God,and dont show your ignorance by saying they were men

Genesis 3:15 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Genesis+3:15&version=9) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Genesis+3&version=9)
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

What is seed in this verse?


1) seed, sowing, offspring
a) a sowing
b) seed
c) semen virile
d) offspring, descendants, posterity, children
e) of moral quality
1) a practitioner of righteousness (fig.) f) sowing time (by meton

Give you proof and still dont believe it,do you?

For a discussion on the "Serpent Seed" doctrine itself, see this thread (http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2723). And if this link does not work, then remove the preceding CTZ interceptor code of the said web address and try again.

[CoreIssue]

And if this link does not work, then remove the preceding CTZ interceptor code of the said web address and try again.
I removed the mod. Obviously does not play nice after the upgrade. :tiphat: