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PeterAV

07-31-2006, 12:55 AM

http://www.jcsm.org/friends/Themes/classic/images/post/xx.gif (http://www.jcsm.org/friends/index.php?topic=204.msg1711#msg1711)The Built-in Holy Bible Dictionary (http://www.jcsm.org/friends/index.php?topic=204.msg1711#msg1711)
« on: July 15, 2006, 12:54:00 AM » (Admin delete functions controls from another board) And That Rock Was Christ

Speaking of "ROCK"..Check this out that I put together a couple days ago.
Having a discussion with a Catholic about "upon this rock" Or trying to,anyway.
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Holy Bible's definition of "Rock" is....

Much better than man's.Much!
That got me to thinking...
What is the Holy Bible's ultimate description of Rock,namely the first
mention of "rock".

Exodus 17:6 Behold,I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb;and
thou shalt smite the rock,and there shall come out water out of it,that the
people may drink.And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.

I find it very interesting that the LORD stood before Moses upon the rock.He
shows us the very best place to stand.Upon the Rock.

The LORD is always with us.He prepares a way for us to minister to the needs
of his people.
It is not you giving to the needs of the people[water from the rock] but
Christ our rock that gives to the needs of the people through our obedience
as we stand upon him,our sure foundation and authority.

It is also very interseting that the same verse includes the term "rock"
twice.The next time "rock" is mentioned is because it gets smitten.Just like
Jesus,our Rock.

...yet we esteemed him stricken,smitten of God,and afflicted.Isaiah 53:4.
Also, Moses was to be LIKE God.[Ex.4:15,16]So we have the picture of God
smiting the Rock,Jesus,in the picture of Moses smitting the rock in the
wilderness mountain of Horeb.

Of course Mt.Horeb is the meeting place of God.
To meet God we must go to the Rock that was smitten.

And then out flows the abundance of water.
Jesus said to the woman at the well..
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never
thirst;the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water
springing up into everlasting life.John 4:14.

Jesus is the water of life.Jesus is the Word.
The water of the word washes us clean.Eph.5:26

The Holy Bible is very clear,that the "ROCK" is none other than Jesus Christ
our Saviour.

That is pure Bible,and the words and traditions of man are making the
commandments of God of none effect.

Those that keep the commandment of God have the testimony of Jesus Christ
Rev.12:7

Those that keep the commandments of God have faith in Jesus.Rev.14:12

Only those that do his commandments,not man's,will have right to the tree of
life and enter through the gates into the city.Rev.22:14

Wonderful words of life!
Just follow the Book.
Just believe the Book.
There is only one Holy Bible.:yowza:

Peter Fuhrman

CoreIssue

07-31-2006, 11:49 AM

You are getting absurd here. NIV and NASB also show Christ is the Rock and Living Water.

But you still need a dictionary to show the difference between the Rock Christ and the Rock Peter as to actual word usage in Bible. That they are different words and meanings.

How interesting you abandoned the other post when shown Isaiah was in the RT manuscript and the authors did not put it in.

Is this honest debate? No.

PeterAV

08-03-2006, 09:29 PM

CoreIssue

08-03-2006, 09:46 PM

Please forgive my huge sins,but I am no longer here to debate.
You have made your decissions and so have I.
I simlpy wish to show the Bible's own built-in dictionary.
You are the first to have the destinction of dissin this post.
I have posted it on a few boards and I got a much better response.
Yes I have errors,and I don't confess to make complete treatises
out of my posts as many would like.
Just reda and be blessed.

PeterAV
Every word of God is pure::tiphat:
Peter, your choice of words is amazing. Always geared to throw an insult.

You say everything to proclaim the KJV the only true Bible. And throw mud at every other version and the people who choose to use them.

Yet, you are being dissed. The sarcasm is noted.

Just maybe, on those other boards, they were not aware you were only speaking for the KJV being the Bible? Maybe they thought you meant all versions?

Or maybe they were KJV Only boards?

Really. I showed you Isaiah, in refutation of your claims against other versions beside the KJV. You are silent.

Is or is not Isaiah in the manuscript? It is in, thus the KJV authors chose to delete part of the text.

My whole point, in this, is refute the claim the KJV is the only real Bible. Not to say the KJV is not a Bible. Nothing more.

Your whole point is to say the KJV is the only real Bible.

I believe I have countered your arguments accurately. But every time I do so, you will not respond.

But your argument seems to be you are still right, just didn't do a good enough job.

:scratch: No. I don't get it. Isaiah in Mark is so blatantly clear. But you will not even adit that point.

PeterAV

08-05-2006, 01:17 AM

You are fighting a loosing battle there.
The modern versions quote only one.But the truth of the matter is
that there is two.
This is error.They have Malachi against them.Can't push that one
under the rug like you would like.
Most likely some dumby like Origen that couldn't find any other quote
at the time and so changed the word to read only Isaiah.

And my Built-in dictionary had nothing to do with NIV or NASB.
You just are bent on touting looser Versions.Thats your choice.
Feel for ya.
Now forget all the blather and enjoy the posts on the built-in Bible dictionary.
Watch how consistent and reliable it is.

No more fighting,OK?:catfight:
Peace?:hug:
I respect your choice to use what I consider junk.That is OK.
But don't ever think that they are in any way the
final authority in all matters of faith and practice.
Only the Holy Bible has that distinction.

Holy Bible
There is only one.

CoreIssue

08-05-2006, 06:02 PM

Well, if you want peace stop saying the version I use is not the Holy Bible.

Otherwise, you are the one setting up the confrontation.

There is a big difference between stating preference and claiming the KJV is the ONLY Holy Bible.

That is my final say on it. Maybe you will get the point. Maybe not.

PeterAV

08-05-2006, 11:17 PM

Holy Bible
There is only one.
Only one is pure.
NIV surely is not that.
NASB is even worse.

PeterAV

08-05-2006, 11:22 PM

Sorry,That was uncalled for.
Back to peace.
OK.
Here is the next one.
The Built-in Bible dictionary.
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The Word 'Grudge' in the Holy Bible
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The best way to determine the true defintion in the Holy Bible of any particular word is to use the Holy Bible to determine that.
Grudge is first shown in the Holy Bible in Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge,nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people,but hou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:I am the LORD.

From this context Grudge implies an evil jealousy that leads to avenging one's self of perceived evil inflicted upon him.This can be vocal or silent and secret.

To bear implies a punishment that at first appears to be too great=first mention of bear Genesis 4:13

So we can see that some folks think that it is too great to bear such inflicted evil upon themselves and their hearts hold a grudge.

The temptation is to avenge oneself or if one feels powerless,to at least bear a grudge against that person.

Grudging is an attitude that is ruled by the feelings.
God asks of us to not be ruled by our feelings but to be ruled by love,which is the apropriate action for the certain circumstance.

Love overlooks the sin.This is wiser.
Love does not retaliate.This is wiser.
Love does not hate secretly.This is wiser.
Love does not rebuke thy neighbour.This is wiser.
Love does not avenge.This is wiser.
Allow the just Judge to be the one to dish anything out.

This is some hard row to hoe,
But we are no average Joe.
If you want the most amount of good,
Then remember ther's only one that's good.
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The next time Grudge is in the Holy Bible is in Psalm 59:15.
Let them wander up and down for meat,and grudge if they be not satisfied.

Here we have another insight into the definition from the pure Holy Bible of the definition of the term Grudge.
Here it shows the aspect of not satisfied.
The evil are like dogs in the street that wander up and down.They are hungry.Their meat is to be proud and full of cursing and lying with their mouths.It is like they are looking for some opportunity to be coarse with their mouth,such a noise.

So what if they are not satisfied and bear a grudge against the LORD's annointed.
God will consume them.
But we can just sing of the LORD's power,and of his mercy.
He is our strength and our defence.We can sing of our God of our mercy.
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The last time Grudge is used in the Holy Bible is in James 5:9
Grudge not one against another,brethren,lest ye be condemned: behold the judge standeth before the door.
Here we see a warning against the brethren Grudging one another.
James shows that it is better to suffer with patience than to avenge ourselves as the rich have done.
Patience is very virtuous and the LORD is very pitiful and of tender mercy.

Here we have the mercy appear again.God will show us his character of mercy if we are patient and not avenge ourselves of our brothers.Help us LORD to endure and bear the Grudge,or better yet not to Grudge at all,but joyously,trusting in the character and word of God.

We cannot be like some brethren or evil folk,but need to run less in riot.We must remember that the Judge is at the door,in other words,very close.
There is a better place than the one we are in now, which is full of cursing and lies against us.
And behold,I come quickly;and my reward is with me,to give every man according as his work shall be.

PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

Holy Bible
There is only one.

CoreIssue

08-06-2006, 12:58 AM

The Word 'Grudge' in the Holy Bible
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The best way to determine the true defintion in the Holy Bible of any particular word is to use the Holy Bible to determine that.

You are talking contextual usage, not word definition.

Yes, the Bible uses many words in a distinctive context. No, it never violates the dictionary meaning.

I have seen too many who invent defintions to suit their doctrines doing it your way.

Definition + grammar + context = doctrine.

Think about it.

Grudge is first shown in the Holy Bible in Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge,nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people,but hou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:I am the LORD.

From this context Grudge implies an evil jealousy that leads to avenging one's self of perceived evil inflicted upon him.This can be vocal or silent and secret.

Again, to arrive at that definition you had to begin with an assumed meaning for grudge. Now, how it stacks up again the real definition may, or may not, be accurate.

KJV, NIV and NASB all use grudge.

Grudge means to keep or maintain, not evil jealousy. It is adverbial in combination with bear and against. So, it means to continually keep or hold against.

Hold what against? Desire for vengance or other harm.

To bear implies a punishment that at first appears to be too great=first mention of bear Genesis 4:13

Which has nothing to do with Levitcus.

You have already violated word meaning, grammar and context using this method.
So we can see that some folks think that it is too great to bear such inflicted evil upon themselves and their hearts hold a grudge.
Leviticus is not about being to great to bear. It is about not doing it. Period.
The temptation is to avenge oneself or if one feels powerless,to at least bear a grudge against that person.
Now you have launched into comparative. But make the mistake of carrying meaning of one into the other.

Genesis can be an outcome of this issue. But that does not justify defining Lev. as you did.

You are not developing word meaning here. You are developing doctrinal usage.

Cain was jealous. Yes. But Lev. is about far more than that limited point.
Grudging is an attitude that is ruled by the feelings.
Agree. But you have made Lev. too narrow by what you did here.
God asks of us to not be ruled by our feelings but to be ruled by love,which is the apropriate action for the certain circumstance.
No. We are not to ruled by feelings. But we can love when seeking justice.
Love overlooks the sin.This is wiser.
That is foolish. God does not overlook sin.

Do not cast your pearls before swine.

The strong man defends his home.

It is how we deal with it that matters.
Love does not retaliate.This is wiser.
Seeking justice is not retaliation.
Love does not hate secretly.This is wiser.
We are to hate sin. Which is different from the sinner.
Love does not rebuke thy neighbour.This is wiser.
We are commanded to rebuke those in excessive error.
Love does not avenge.This is wiser.
But we are to seek justice. Tampered with mercy in some cases.
Allow the just Judge to be the one to dish anything out.
We are commanded to rebuke, refute and correct.

PC is a recipe for disaster.

Temper all things in Love. God loves the sinners he will cast into the Lake.

God guides our steps and lives. He does not walk for us.

This is some hard row to hoe,
But we are no average Joe.
If you want the most amount of good,
Then remember ther's only one that's good.

Very true. Be Christ like.

But God carried a big stick in the Temple and told the Apostles to carry swords.
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The next time Grudge is in the Holy Bible is in Psalm 59:15.
Let them wander up and down for meat,and grudge if they be not satisfied.

Another bad translation. The word means to growl, grumble or mumble, in example. Not keep or hold to something.

NASB is superior using growl. NIV howl.

Both are better definitions. And both carry a better understanding of what is being said.

They are evil peole full of lust, hate, jealousy and more. They will turn on anyone, like a pack of starving dogs, that gets in their way.

Thet grumble, complain and moan about their supposed situations.

Grudge is such an inappopriate word here.

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The last time Grudge is used in the Holy Bible is in James 5:9
Grudge not one against another,brethren,lest ye be condemned: behold the judge standeth before the door.

Here we see a warning against the brethren Grudging one another.
James shows that it is better to suffer with patience than to avenge ourselves as the rich have done.
Patience is very virtuous and the LORD is very pitiful and of tender mercy.

Yep.

But it is so much clearer in meaning here, since we do not use the word grudge like that at all any more:
9Don't grumble against each other, brothers, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door!
Really, the Greek word does not mean hold a grudge. It means to sigh or moan.

Here we have the mercy appear again.God will show us his character of mercy if we are patient and not avenge ourselves of our brothers.Help us LORD to endure and bear the Grudge,or better yet not to Grudge at all,but joyously,trusting in the character and word of God.
Agree. Complaining, growling, holding grievances and such are not good. Not at all.

But Bible students can get the meaning so much more clearly when the words are defined correctly and used in English as understood today.

But, getting back to the main point. The Bible does not define words by comparing them. It establishes the usage the words are put to within its pages.

To properly understand the usages/doctrines/teachings we have to get the word meaning correct, not only in meaning, but in contextual usage.

And that always starts with a good dictionary. Be it Greek, Hebrew or English, depending on where used.

We cannot be like some brethren or evil folk,but need to run less in riot.We must remember that the Judge is at the door,in other words,very close.
There is a better place than the one we are in now, which is full of cursing and lies against us.
And behold,I come quickly;and my reward is with me,to give every man according as his work shall be.

Agree. And I, for one, am so looking forward to it. So very much.

PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

Holy Bible
There is only one.

Which comes in several excellent version, with the NIV and NASB amoung the best.

PeterAV

08-06-2006, 03:44 AM

CoreIssue

08-06-2006, 10:05 AM

OK.
That settles it.You have proved yourself demented and an abuser,
Good bye.
Have anice time being the SATANIC critic.
O yes,Make sur to citique this last post for I knopw you have not the will power now to stop.
So Satanic.
Good bye.
Holy Bible
Holy Bible
There is only one.
You can go ahead and worship "he who"NIV
I will worship God who was manifest in the flesh.Holy Bible

Adios muchachos.
Bye. That is your choice.

All you are doing here is proving yourself a fool.

God is not NIV, KJV or any other. God is God who gave us the Bible, of which these are all versions.

Your Satanic garbage proves you do not have a grasp on reality.

All Christians worship Christ, who is God manifest in the flesh. Which further proves you have not a clue of reality, since the NIV and NASB teach this very clearly.

I guess you forget you education. One determines meaning via word definition and rules of grammar. Then one develops an interpretation of what is said, as in a doctrine.

Your problem you refuse to see where the KJV uses the wrong words for definitions, or selects what it will and will not embrace from the manuscripts, as in Isaiah in Mark.

Even worse, when shown the Catholics added to the base manuscripts, you close your eyes.

Maybe someday you will allow God to open your eyes. But I doubt it.

We will pray for you. That is all we can do. :blink: