What are demons?

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Fallen angels? For some reason, I don't think that's all there is to it.

[CoreIssue]

Fallen angels are chained in the Pit per Jude.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Okay, but WHAT ARE DEMONS????

Are they the ones that fell when Satan fell?

Don't make me think about this, Core! :rollingp:

[CoreIssue]

Okay, but WHAT ARE DEMONS????

Are they the ones that fell when Satan fell?

Don't make me think about this, Core! :rollingp:
Here is Chrystal trying to think.:(

No. There was only one ancient war and they were all cast out and into the Pit at the same time Satan was cast out, but not put in the Pit.

The answer lies in the Pre-Adamic Creation. In that article you see there were ancient cities predating Adam on an ancient earth with animals and such predating Adam as well.

Genesis 1:2, and many other verses, say this the life on this earth was destroyed when it was made void.

But note, God did not create Hell until the rebellion. Nor darkness. And it says he created Hell for the angels that fell, not the beings on the ancient earth.

Jude says the angels that fell were placed in the Pit and this Hell.

Now, if demons are the fallen angels, then Hell is empty. But it is not.

And if God created Hell for the fallen angels, where did the members of the old earth company of beings go? Or are they still here as demons?

[Chrystalwuzhere]

:fit:Auuuugh!!!!!!!!!! Just say, "Chrystal, demons are ______________."



Here is Chrystal trying to think. :(



Here is Core trying to dance ---> :shoot:




No. There was only one ancient war and they were all cast out and into the Pit at the same time Satan was cast out, but not put in the Pit.

Gotcha!!! :nod:



The answer lies in the Pre-Adamic Creation. In that article you see there were ancient cities predating Adam on an ancient earth with animals and such predating Adam as well.

Genesis 1:2, and many other verses, say this the life on this earth was destroyed when it was made void.

But note, God did not create Hell until the rebellion. Nor darkness. And it says he created Hell for the angels that fell, not the beings on the ancient earth.

Are you saying that demons are the spirits of the pre-adamic beings?



Jude says the angels that fell were placed in the Pit and this Hell.

Now, if demons are the fallen angels, then Hell is empty. But it is not.

Gotcha!!!! :nod:



And if God created Hell for the fallen angels, where did the members of the old earth company of beings go? Or are they still here as demons?

Ummmmm..... yes? :tease:

Here's my question. What kind of beings were these pre-adamic beings? Did they look human? Were they demonic? Holy? Holy before they fell? WHAT ARE THEY? And, why are they demons NOW? And... why were they not provided a way for salvation like we are?

:sob:

[CoreIssue]

:banghead: Hit it harder, Chrystal. That one thought will eventually pop out! :roflmbo:

Here's my question. What kind of beings were these pre-adamic beings? Did they look human? Were they demonic? Holy? Holy before they fell? WHAT ARE THEY? And, why are they demons NOW? And... why were they not provided a way for salvation like we are?

I don't know what they looked like. For one reason they were neither male nor female, but a company.

But I do believe the 4 Living Creatures are the equivalent of the 24 Elders before the Throne. They represent the kind before God.

They were created as a company, not a race. Like the angels, but in flesh. As the 4 Living Creatures are living flesh beings.

They were holy and existed before sin entered creation. When Satan was still holy.

When Satan rebelled 1/3 of the angels followed him. They are in the Pit.

We know the earth was involved in the war because of verse 2.

God removed the Pre-Adamics that did not rebell. They are in Heaven. A nation outside of the NJ, I believe.

Those that did rebell were caught in the destruction of the earth when the angels that fell were, in chains, rained down on the earth like meteors. Their flesh perished.

Demon means evil spirit. They are evil spirits. As Satan is an evil spirit.

Think about it. Demons possess humans flesh and enjoy the sensations of the flesh.

Now, why would that be if unless they were spirits of flesh beings? Incomplete.

Angels never had flesh. They are complete.

Even Satan, in Revelation, does not enber and possess a human, like the demons do the AC and FP. He enters a statue.

Satan entering Judas does not say he possessed Judas. Just that he did a ton of influence on Judas.

See what I am getting at?

[Chrystalwuzhere]

See what I am getting at?

No! :sob:

I'm stupid or something.

[InTheWind]

No! :sob:

I'm stupid or something.

Don`t feel alone sis, to deep for me too. :nod:

[CoreIssue]

OK. One step at a time on a couple of paths.
1. Do you see fallen angels cannot be both in the Pit and on the earth? They have either been free from the day they were cast out or chained until Judgement Day.

2. Do you see the 4 Living Creatures are not angels, but holy, immortal flesh?

3. Do you see a Pre-Adamic people had to be a comany, not a race? A company, like the angels, fall or are with God being by being. A race falls or is with God either as a whole or via a sin sacrifice accepted per indidivual being?

[InTheWind]

So are you saying that we sin only because of our sin nature and that there are no outside influences such as demons whispering in your ear

[CoreIssue]

So are you saying that we sin only because of our sin nature and that there are no outside influences such as demons whispering in your ear
Never said that.

One sins because of their sin nature. And that sin nature can be triggered by outside influences as well as self. Demons only being one such possible influence.

But even with outside influences one has to allow their sin nature to act on it.

So self motivated or tempted, our sin nature is still ultimate what is at fault.

[InTheWind]

Think about it. Demons possess humans flesh and enjoy the sensations of the flesh.

Now, why would that be if unless they were spirits of flesh beings? Incomplete.


So all these ghosts that people see are demons taking on flesh form ?

[CoreIssue]

So all these ghosts that people see are demons taking on flesh form ?
If you mean appearing as having flesh, yes. When not them mistaking other things for ghosts.

Demons can look like they have flesh, but do not actually have flesh.

They can work through humans they possess. That is as close to having flesh as they can get.

[InTheWind]

I thought i edited to ad this but must not of hit the post button.
What was Christs flesh then, He could eat, be touched yet walk through walls.:scratch:

[CoreIssue]

I thought i edited to ad this but must not of hit the post button.
What was Christs flesh then, He could eat, be touched yet walk through walls.:scratch:
Glorified human flesh. Like we will have in eternity.

Glorified flesh is not subject to the laws of physics as we are.

Angels do not have flesh at all. The are purely spirits.

The Father and HS are spirit.

Angels and demons can look human, but are never real flesh.

[Brandli5]

(James 2:19) and in Reve 16:14 The demons are spoken of as spiritual beings, at enmity with God, and having power to afflict man not only with disease, but, as is marked by the frequent epithet “un-clean,” with spiritual pollution also. They “believe” the power of God “and tremble,” (James 2:19) they recognized the Lord as the Son of God, (Matthew 8:29; Luke 4:41) and acknowledged the power of his name, used in exorcism. ...

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Okay, time to dig this out of the mothballs and dust it off. I'm ready to go at it again. I needed to just step away from it for a while, but have still continued to ponder on it. When I finally get it, it will probably be with a nuclear BANG!!! :lol:

:banghead: Hit it harder, Chrystal. That one thought will eventually pop out! :roflmbo:

I don't know what they looked like. For one reason they were neither male nor female, but a company.

Okay, how do you know that? Did they even look human?

But I do believe the 4 Living Creatures are the equivalent of the 24 Elders before the Throne. They represent the kind before God.

They were created as a company, not a race. Like the angels, but in flesh. As the 4 Living Creatures are living flesh beings.



They were holy and existed before sin entered creation. When Satan was still holy.

When Satan rebelled 1/3 of the angels followed him. They are in the Pit.

I'm afraid I don't understand. How can the four living creatures be the equivalent of the 24 elders?

We know the earth was involved in the war because of verse 2.

God removed the Pre-Adamics that did not rebell. They are in Heaven. A nation outside of the NJ, I believe.

Okay...where can I find this. I wanna read up on it.

Those that did rebell were caught in the destruction of the earth when the angels that fell were, in chains, rained down on the earth like meteors. Their flesh perished.

Demon means evil spirit. They are evil spirits. As Satan is an evil spirit.

Think about it. Demons possess humans flesh and enjoy the sensations of the flesh.

Now, why would that be if unless they were spirits of flesh beings? Incomplete.

Angels never had flesh. They are complete.

Even Satan, in Revelation, does not enber and possess a human, like the demons do the AC and FP. He enters a statue.

Satan entering Judas does not say he possessed Judas. Just that he did a ton of influence on Judas.

See what I am getting at?

So..... *drumroll*.... demons are the disembodied spirits of the destroyed, evil, pre-adamic race?

OK. One step at a time on a couple of paths.
1. Do you see fallen angels cannot be both in the Pit and on the earth? They have either been free from the day they were cast out or chained until Judgement Day.

Yes, I understand. :nod:

2. Do you see the 4 Living Creatures are not angels, but holy, immortal flesh?

Yes, I accept that, but still don't understand them. They are not only seen in Revelation, but in Ezekiel as well when Ezekiel had a vision. Why? What was the significance of showing them to Ezekiel?

3. Do you see a Pre-Adamic people had to be a company, not a race? A company, like the angels, fall or are with God being by being. A race falls or is with God either as a whole or via a sin sacrifice accepted per indidivual being?

I see that they are a company, and that they weren't male or female, but don't understand why. Please, please, please point me in the right direction.

Where can I read up on this? Do you have any good resources?

[CoreIssue]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreIssue http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/showthread.php?p=13581#post13581)
:banghead: Hit it harder, Chrystal. That one thought will eventually pop out! :roflmbo:

I don't know what they looked like. For one reason they were neither male nor female, but a company.

Okay, how do you know that? Did they even look human?
Because if they were a race, not a company, the fallen ones would have had offspring. The offspring would have required a savior.

Since I believe the Four Living Creatures, who are flesh and blood, stand for the Pre-Adamics that did not rebell, we see they have no priest before God. They are simply before God as the angels are before God.

A race requires a priest, from all appearances.

We see that although flesh, they are bound to one appearance and, like Christ, are not bound to the laws of physics.

Hence, I don't know what they looked like. Or if all looked the same when created, since we see angels, also a company, vary in appearance.

Since the Pre-Adamics had the dinos, and the Four have animal appearances, I would guess they were more in tune with the dinos and such than us, except for being bipedal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoreIssue
But I do believe the 4 Living Creatures are the equivalent of the 24 Elders before the Throne. They represent the kind before God.

They were created as a company, not a race. Like the angels, but in flesh. As the 4 Living Creatures are living flesh beings.



They were holy and existed before sin entered creation. When Satan was still holy.

When Satan rebelled 1/3 of the angels followed him. They are in the Pit.

I'm afraid I don't understand. How can the four living creatures be the equivalent of the 24 elders?

Equivalent in that the 24 represent the OT Israel covenant before God, the archangels seem to represent the angels before God and thus they represent the Pre-Adamics before God.

A pattern.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoreIssue
We know the earth was involved in the war because of verse 2.

God removed the Pre-Adamics that did not rebell. They are in Heaven. A nation outside of the NJ, I believe.

Okay...where can I find this. I wanna read up on it.
Theory here.

The earth was destroyed Pre-Adam. God would not have left his own in the destruction. So logic says he removed them since we see them in Heaven.

When the rebellious angels were cast down, the face of the earth was destroyed, which destroyed the fallen Pre-Adamics bodies, hence they now exist as demons (evil spirits) which can and do inhabit human flesh and work through it.

There is no reason for fallen angels to possess flesh since they are compete spirit beings in and of themselves.

In Revelation we see there are nations outside the NJ that enter and leave via the 12 gates, which are guarded by angels.
Revelation 21
24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.
It also says in chapter 22 the lost are outside the gates, but as said in chapter 21 they cannot enter.

Since Israel and the Church are two nations within the city, who are the kings and nations to bring their splendor into it?

I use to think this meant those of all nations of the earth in the Church. But the word kings always bothered me.

The Church has one King, Christ. The Body of Christ has two within it, Church and Israel.

So where are the people who were under neither covenant? Where do the angels live, since I believe the OT shows they possessed other planets as their sanctuaries? What nation does the Four Living belong to and where are those within it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoreIssue
Those that did rebell were caught in the destruction of the earth when the angels that fell were, in chains, rained down on the earth like meteors. Their flesh perished.

Demon means evil spirit. They are evil spirits. As Satan is an evil spirit.

Think about it. Demons possess humans flesh and enjoy the sensations of the flesh.

Now, why would that be if unless they were spirits of flesh beings? Incomplete.

Angels never had flesh. They are complete.

Even Satan, in Revelation, does not enber and possess a human, like the demons do the AC and FP. He enters a statue.

Satan entering Judas does not say he possessed Judas. Just that he did a ton of influence on Judas.

See what I am getting at?

So..... *drumroll*.... demons are the disembodied spirits of the destroyed, evil, pre-adamic race?

Comany! Not race.

It is important to keep the meanings distinct.

Yes, the disembodied spirits of the destroyed Pre-Adamic Company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoreIssue http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/showthread.php?p=13585#post13585)
OK. One step at a time on a couple of paths.
1. Do you see fallen angels cannot be both in the Pit and on the earth? They have either been free from the day they were cast out or chained until Judgement Day.

Yes, I understand. :nod:


Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreIssue
2. Do you see the 4 Living Creatures are not angels, but holy, immortal flesh?

Yes, I accept that, but still don't understand them. They are not only seen in Revelation, but in Ezekiel as well when Ezekiel had a vision. Why? What was the significance of showing them to Ezekiel?

It shows that once a group become represented before the Throne they are part of the Royal Court.

It was the Throne of God they carried. Thus they were in essesnce a part of it and the Royal Court.

Their time on the earth was done. They and their kind had entered the presence of God forever. As we will one day enter that presence.

Just as it does not say what we will be doing for eternity, neither does it say what the Living Creatures, as a whole have been or will be doing for eternity.

We only see those before the Throne.
Quote:


Originally Posted by CoreIssue
3. Do you see a Pre-Adamic people had to be a company, not a race? A company, like the angels, fall or are with God being by being. A race falls or is with God either as a whole or via a sin sacrifice accepted per indidivual being?

I see that they are a company, and that they weren't male or female, but don't understand why. Please, please, please point me in the right direction.

Where can I read up on this? Do you have any good resources?
As with much theology you have to read what is said and try to best you can to fill in the gaps with logic and good sense using the rest of the Bible as a template.
Read the Pre-Adamic Creation thread, lay out what is given and then see how the gaps can be filled in to be consistant and make sense.
I believe you will end up right where I am.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

In Isaiah 14:12, God said:
"How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

So, we can basically tell from this verse that Lucifer fell sometime during the end of, or directly after, the destruction of the Pre-Adamic company?

And another question I have is this: Was Lucifer's name changed to Satan at that point?

[CoreIssue]

So, we can basically tell from this verse that Lucifer fell sometime during the end of, or directly after, the destruction of the Pre-Adamic company?

And another question I have is this: Was Lucifer's name changed to Satan at that point?
I believe his casting down, along with the Fallen Angels, who were bound per Jude, occurred at the destruction of the Pre-Adamic earth. At which time the fallen Pre-Adamics perished physically.

As for Lucifer, that name never was in the Hebrew manuscripts. It is a Latin word, meaning Light Bringer, the RCC substituted in their earlier Bibles, since the verse is talking about Satan.

The word there means:
Strong's Number: 01966 Browse Lexicon (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/browse.cgi?number=1966&version=kjv) Original WordWord Originllyhfrom (01984 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=1984&version=kjv)) (in the sense of brightness)Transliterated WordTDNT (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=01966&version=kjv#Legend) EntryHeylelTWOT - 499aPhonetic SpellingParts of Speechhay-lale' http://bible.crosswalk.com/images/audio.gif (http://bible.crosswalk.com/cgi-bin/lexicon.pl?id=1966h) Noun Masculine DefinitionLucifer = "light-bearer"
shining one, morning star, Lucifer
of the king of Babylon and Satan (fig.)
(TWOT) 'Helel' describing the king of Babylon King James Word Usage - Total: 1Lucifer 1
In Latin astrology it is the name of Venus, the Morning Star.

The NIV, NASB and others get it right by saying 'Morning Star.'

I believe the term was used for Satan because when first created he was indeed the brightest star (angel) of all creation. But, as with the Morning Star, it brightness and glory fades quickly as the Sun rises.

Satan rose and shown quickly. Then his glory vanished and he was cast down.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

So, Satan caused Pre-Adamic creation to sin?

And, what's his real name (Satan)?

And... how can a lake of fire have no light? Even fire itself puts out a type of light.

[CoreIssue]

So, Satan caused Pre-Adamic creation to sin?

And, what's his real name (Satan)?

And... how can a lake of fire have no light? Even fire itself puts out a type of light.
Yep. He stirred up the rebellion.

As for Satan's real name, I don't have a clue.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

I'm truly enjoying the Pre-Adamic thread on the old board. The OP by Lucky is wonderful!!! Yours too!

You must be proud of him.

Anyways, as I weed through it and ponder these things, I'm sure I'll have tons more questions. Heh! I bet you're just waiting with anticipation. LOL!

:jester:

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Oh, and were the Wooly Mammoths and the Dodo birds Pre-Adamic? :coquet:

And, what about the Ice Age? :doofy:

[CoreIssue]

Oh, and were the Wooly Mammoths and the Dodo birds Pre-Adamic? :coquet:

And, what about the Ice Age? :doofy:
I see no reason the Mammoths and Dodo were Pre-Adamic. Others might have more information.

The dividing of the land at the time of Peleg would have driven certain animal extinct due to continental drift.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

And the Ice Age?

[CoreIssue]

And the Ice Age?
Well, when what science calls Pangea divided and began drifting the changes to weather would have been emense. The wind, current, magnetic and other patterns would have been vastly changed.

Add in whatever solar patterns were going on, the Ice Ages are not hard to imagine. But they were not nearly as long as science want to claim.

Think about it, we still have receding ice fields today.

[CTZonEdit]

Yep. He stirred up the rebellion.

As for Satan's real name, I don't have a clue.

[-]
What about Lucifer?
[/-]

NM Im slow to read :D

[Jessie]

I'm thinking that volcanic eruption brought on the ice age

[CoreIssue]

I'm thinking that volcanic eruption brought on the ice age
That sure would have been a result of Pangea splitting and continental drift occurring.

[CoreIssue]

I cleaned up the thread to get it back on topic. :tiphat: