Spirit & Flesh World Realities

[CoreIssue]

Many people see the world operating totally by physical laws without any kind of spirit intervention except in the case of miracles or demonic posssion.

That could not be further from the truth. Angels and demons work around us all the time. God influences nature, people and the Universe constantly.

We should not look at the interaction of flesh, angels, demons and God as being the exception, but the rule.

Pentecostalism, expecially in its more extreme forms, such as WoF, carry the intervention to extremes, blaming Satan for about everything. Such as Baptists go the extreme in the opposite direction, making angels, demons and God too distant.

We just need to be aware the interactions in our lives and world are far more complex znd often less obvious than people assume. And people take credit for many successes that would never have happened without outside intervention.

Just something on my mind.:D

[Brandli5]

Did you know that ANgels were put around us not only to protect, But to worship with us. To make our worship to Jesus more.

I find that great and awesome.

Satan of course had to bring his side in to try to stop this worship. What a glory, he cant stop Gods glory.:pray:

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Did you know that ANgels were put around us not only to protect, But to worship with us. To make our worship to Jesus more.

I find that great and awesome.

Satan of course had to bring his side in to try to stop this worship. What a glory, he cant stop Gods glory.:pray:

I've never heard that. I don't think I've read that in scripture. Where did you find it?

[Street Sweeper]

Such as Baptists go the extreme in the opposite direction, making angels, demons and God too distant.

How do Baptists make God too distant? :scratch:

[CoreIssue]

How do Baptists make God too distant? :scratch:
They believe gifts of the spirit have ceased, thus denying the power of the Holy Spirit in part. They believe, legalistically, such as the American Indians, when it was impossible for them to hear the Gospel, go to Hell because they literally did not accept Christ, thus suppressing God's mercy and where Paul said those who do not have the Law and Gospel are judged by the Law of Conscience They enact strict membership requirements that deny anyone who will not accept every line. And much more.

They are heavy into legalistic doctrinism.

Not all. Always exceptions. But generically speaking.

[Street Sweeper]

They believe gifts of the spirit have ceased, thus denying the power of the Holy Spirit in part. They believe, legalistically, such as the American Indians, when it was impossible for them to hear the Gospel, go to Hell because they literally did not accept Christ, thus suppressing God's mercy and where Paul said those who do not have the Law and Gospel are judged by the Law of Conscience They enact strict membership requirements that deny anyone who will not accept every line. And much more.

They are heavy into legalistic doctrinism.

Not all. Always exceptions. But generically speaking.

I think this assessment of Baptist belief may be a little too harsh. I would naturally expect some variation from my own Anglican church doctrine or the denominational distinction would be meaningless. My church has always had good relations with the Baptist church to the extent that our annual church retreat usually invites a Baptist minister as the primary speaker for our weekend away. I agree with your comments about exceptions but the couple of web sites I just visited checking on Baptist beliefs did not seem particularly outlandish - yes the membership aspect was evident.

My weekly Bible study group also had for some time a Pentecostal Christian joining us from the UK. She certainly placed greater emphasis on the work of the holy Spirit, but I actually found it useful to consider some of these aspects which can tend to be de-emphasised.

[CoreIssue]

No. My assessment was not too harsh.

I have attended two different Baptist denominations, in the past, and what I said was dead on the money.

Denominationalism is against the Bible. All other than the core meanings of Christ, God and salvation are to be discussed, differences allowed and growth coming through proper study and discussion.

Denominationalism kills that. It creates rigidity in doctrines that is not healthy. It seals out those who can contribute because they do not agree with everything.

1 Corinthians 1
10I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201;&version=31;#fen-NIV-28360a)]"; still another, "I follow Christ."
13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201;&version=31;#fen-NIV-28361b)] the name of Paul? 14I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

1 Corinthians 3
1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? 4For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere men?
5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

This is most assuredly a description of denominations.

You ask a lot of church people what are they, and they will not say Christian, they will say Northern Baptist, Southern Baptist, Independent Baptist, Methodist, this and that, anything but just Christian.

It is not good.

We have Reverand this and Father that. Neither are acceptable in any fashion Biblically. They are titles of men, not from God.

Hope you see my point. Denominationalism pulls people away from Biblical learning and into doctrinal learning.

We do not grow toward full spiritual understanding unless we can discuss, compare, test and learn.

[eahaddix]

We just need to be aware the interactions in our lives and world are far more complex znd often less obvious than people assume.

Agreed. For example, even many individuals of the materialistic mindset know demons (http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1142) as "shadow beings" or "shadow people."

In the recent article on shadow people (http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa022502a.htm) - dark, ghost-like shadowy entities- it was mentioned that this phenomenon seems to be on the rise around the world. There appear to be more sightings with greater frequency. Many readers seem to concur and have responded with their frightening, sometimes bizarre personal encounters with these strange beings.
Source: "Encountering the Shadow People," by Stephen Wagner @ Paranormal.About.com (http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa030402a.htm)

As an example of how common this paranormal activity is, a recent caller to the Art Bell late night radio show (a show that deals exclusively with the paranormal), brought up Shadow People. As a result of that one call, Mr. Bell received at least 4,500 emails from people who have experienced paranormal activity of this type. Surprisingly, all the pictures submitted were eerily similar, which suggests that these appearances are indeed real and have enough commonalities to warrant further study.
Source: "Shadow People," by Mystical Blaze @ MysticalBlaze.com (http://www.mysticalblaze.com/GhostsShadow.htm)

Further reading:
"What are Shadow People?" by Yona Williams, April 6, 2006 @ Unexplainable.net (http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/publish/article_3254.shtml)
"Shadow People" @ Monstropedia.org (http://www.monstropedia.org/index.php?title=Shadow_people) [Cross ref. Wikipedia Entry] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_people)
"The Official Shadow People Archives" @ Members.Aol.com (http://members.aol.com/khalloween/shadowpeople/shadowpeople.htm)

Notice that this phenomena parallels 1 Peter 5:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%205:8;&version=31;) and 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Thessalonians%202:9-10;&version=31;). Such phenomena is humbling and sobering, not "fun" and "exciting," as the charismatics would have us believe.

All believers should study and impliment Ephesians 6:10-18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%206:10-18;&version=31;).

[Sid]

Angels and demons work around us all the time. God influences nature, people and the Universe constantly.

We should not look at the interaction of flesh, angels, demons and God as being the exception, but the rule.


So many deny the Ephesians 6 spiritual combat we are in:

So many forget that the religions of LDS and Islam were founded on revelation provided by angels.

So many forget that the psychobabble that our churchs are marinating in was founded on atheistic, humanistic doctrines of demons.