Boom or Bad Economy?

[CoreIssue]

The investments shows, S&P, unemployment statistics and more say the US is booming.

Is it? Or are these indicators being driven up by pay cuts, shipping jobs overseas and such?

Bancruptcies are escalating and are huge in numbers. New car and home sales are down. Big companies continue to shut down pension funds and cut workers in the better paying jobs.

What is the truth?

[Jessie]

I dont see it booming anywhere here.

its stabalized, but booming is really off the track.
and its not where it used to be.

the poor are getting poorer and the rich richer.

[PrayzHim]

I get so upset when I hear that unemployment is down. They are talking about the numbers of people receiving unemployment. What happens to the people who have exhausted their benefits or were turned down altogether? Who counts them????? I do not see a boom...... lots of businesses around here closing the doors!!

[CoreIssue]

I don't see it as stabilizing at all. Sorry, Jessie.

In 2005 our area was ranked number 8 nation wide as a great place to live.

But, within working distance we have 2 Ford plants closing, 2 military bases closing, a number of corporate HQs have reduced sizes and facilities have moved overseas, a number of good restaurants have closed, one owner we know said all restraint business is down by at least 20%, Delta is hurting, as are other airlines and so on.

Big companies like Home Depot and Lowes have cut wages and numbers of workers in stores.

In Indiana and Ohio, at least, industries have closed in droves.

We don't make cars in this country anymore. We have some assembly plants that are heavily automated but the engines, bodies and such are made overseas or in Mexico and Canada.

And I could go on and on.

The good paying jobs are gone or disappearing.

And as Prazhim indicated, unemployment figures are down because people have given up looking or run out their benefits.

Did you know if you work part-time while trying to get a full time job you are not calculated into unemployment any longer? And part-time is any amount of hours a week.

And don't get hurt. They are now means testing if you apply for SSI disability. You have to use up everything you have to get full pay.

And they are now taking property to pay for getting Medicaid for elderly care.

Nursing homes cost a fortune. Kids kick in money and work to support their parent(s) at home. But when they pass on the states are stepping in and taking the property to back pay for the Medicaid aid they received. Kids work and money to keep them at home are lost to the government.

I see us sinking. The rich getting richer, the poor poorer and as admitted, the Middle Class disappearing.

[CTZonEdit]

Yes the rich are getting richer off the backs of the immigrants that continue to flow into the US. Why pay for an american citizens wages, and benefits when they can pay someone illegally a lesser wage.

And why do we continue to pay for people who are illegals?
We pay for the health care, we pay for their education, and assimilation into the USA.
All so they can send the money back to their native lands?

Just how is this benefiting America and Americans? And for what? So we can afford lots of cheaply made products, and services?

Did it ever occur to people that the reason that Wal-Mart is such a booming buisness is that a growing number of people cant afford to shop any where else? Like the illegals and immigrants? Or Americans that have been cut out of the workforce? Or the elderly?

[Sid]

We have to remember that the people who are telling us that the economy is sound are the same ones who oirchestrated the Saving and Loan disaster of the early '80s.

This link puts some numbers into the discussion:




1. Profits are up, but the wages and the incomes of average Americans are down.

2. More and more people are deeper and deeper in debt.

3. Job creation has not kept up with population growth, and the employment rate has fallen sharply.

4. Poverty is on the rise.

5. Rising health care costs are eroding families' already declining income.



What's wrong with the economy? (http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/pm110)

[Jessie]

I don't see it as stabilizing at all. Sorry, Jessie.

In 2005 our area was ranked number 8 nation wide as a great place to live.

But, within working distance we have 2 Ford plants closing, 2 military bases closing, a number of corporate HQs have reduced sizes and facilities have moved overseas, a number of good restaurants have closed, one owner we know said all restraint business is down by at least 20%, Delta is hurting, as are other airlines and so on.

Big companies like Home Depot and Lowes have cut wages and numbers of workers in stores.

In Indiana and Ohio, at least, industries have closed in droves.

We don't make cars in this country anymore. We have some assembly plants that are heavily automated but the engines, bodies and such are made overseas or in Mexico and Canada.

And I could go on and on.

The good paying jobs are gone or disappearing.

And as Prazhim indicated, unemployment figures are down because people have given up looking or run out their benefits.

Did you know if you work part-time while trying to get a full time job you are not calculated into unemployment any longer? And part-time is any amount of hours a week.

And don't get hurt. They are now means testing if you apply for SSI disability. You have to use up everything you have to get full pay.

And they are now taking property to pay for getting Medicaid for elderly care.

Nursing homes cost a fortune. Kids kick in money and work to support their parent(s) at home. But when they pass on the states are stepping in and taking the property to back pay for the Medicaid aid they received. Kids work and money to keep them at home are lost to the government.

I see us sinking. The rich getting richer, the poor poorer and as admitted, the Middle Class disappearing.

I dont think you understood what I meant by "stabalized" (sorry)

what I meant is that we're not in a free fall right at the moment.
I think we will continue the spiral downward. until there is nothing left.

Frankly I think this nation is under Gods judgement right now.
kicking God out of everything everywhere and then expecting to be blessed???
how dumb can they get?

I agree with you. They are sucking this nation dry. (a 9 trillion debt is a obvious factor they just dont care)
with these new laws and such I know many did'nt think we'd be a 3rd world nation,
but golly thats where it will take us in time.

people are getting so greedy and everyone is becoming a taker.
nothing gonna be left there.

and how easily the populace is controlled by becoming like this....

[CoreIssue]

I dont think you understood what I meant by "stabalized" (sorry)
No problem. I understand now.

Stablized into a down spiral. Yep.

[CoreIssue]

We have to remember that the people who are telling us that the economy is sound are the same ones who oirchestrated the Saving and Loan disaster of the early '80s.

This link puts some numbers into the discussion:




1. Profits are up, but the wages and the incomes of average Americans are down.

2. More and more people are deeper and deeper in debt.

3. Job creation has not kept up with population growth, and the employment rate has fallen sharply.

4. Poverty is on the rise.

5. Rising health care costs are eroding families' already declining income.



What's wrong with the economy? (http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/pm110)
Good article, Sid. Spells it out quite nicely.

[Sid]

We have to remember that the people who are telling us that the economy is sound are the same ones who oirchestrated the Saving and Loan disaster of the early '80s.




I believe we are watching our economy go into stagflation like we had back in the Carter presidency in the early '80's. Slow economy, lots of bankruptcy and mortgage foreclosures, lots of inflation and unemployment and interest rates in the 'teens.

The real estate market is pretty good here with all the people getting out of California and other areas where the market has gone nuts.

All the while, the average American couldn't care less.


When the euro began circulating at the start of 2002, Kenneth Rogoff figured it would take 50 years for the new 12-nation currency to rival the importance of the United States dollar in world financial markets. Today, the former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund says parity could come in five to 10 years.

For the first time in many decades, perhaps since before World War I, the dollar has a serious competitor.

Aside from its trade impact, the weakness of the dollar has other ramifications:



The dollar's reduced buying power limits the ability of Washington to expand military or other activities abroad. Though a large portion of the dollars spent in Iraq, Germany, South Korea, and in other overseas operations ends up back in the US, the extra costs are not trivial.



A weaker dollar reduces the economic influence of the US in the world. Its purchases abroad will shrink relatively. Its foreign aid will be less valuable. The sliding dollar doesn't necessarily mean a loss of prestige, says Robert Hormats, vice chairman of Goldman Sachs (International) in New York. "It's really a market phenomenon." Investors worldwide are deciding to diversify their assets, to reduce risk by not concentrating so many eggs in the dollar basket.



A boom in foreign purchases of US firms, now seen as a bargain, may have started. Last year, 1,126 US businesses were sold to foreign buyers, up from 1,032 in 2003 and 980 in 2002, says Thomson Financial, an information firm in New York.

"Europe is very well positioned to buy up a lot," says Rogoff.



The US could see a reduction in what amounts to a giant interest-free loan for US taxpayers. All those $20 and $100 bills abroad represent more in value than they cost to print. So the US makes a profit of roughly $15 billion to $20 billion on the huge float of greenbacks outside US borders, estimates Rogoff. If foreigners shrink those holdings, America's international subsidy will also dwindle.





How US suffers when the dollar falls (http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0217/p17s01-cogn.html?s=widep)