Suicide

[CoreIssue]

This is an issue that has come up on the board, locally where I live and various other places with seeming increasing regularity.

Naturally, along with this comes peoples opinions and beliefs regarding this issue.

We see some who are always justifying it and some always condemning it as the cowards way out.

So, where is the truth in these extremes?

I personally see some people become so overwhelmed with physical pain they reach the point they just cannot go on. I see some as being cowards with suicide being the ultimate running away. And those who do so inbetween need to be examined carefully because there can be hidden issues and lies that keep us from knowing the full truth.

It is a sensitive issue that we dare not jump at making wild judgements.

Especially sensitive when you have some Christians believing and declaring anyone who commits suicide is going to Hell. Which is complete non-biblical.

[InTheWind]

My opinion is that God is the only one that knows the heart and the mind set of the person that commits suicide.
Not only is publicly saying someone took the cowardly way out being judgmental but also very insensitive to the feelings of the persons friends and family.

[CoreIssue]

My opinion is that God is the only one that knows the heart and the mind set of the person that commits suicide.
Not only is publicly saying someone took the cowardly way out being judgmental but also very insensitive to the feelings of the persons friends and family.
Which is why one must consider all the facts and issues.

That means even if one knows someone took the cowards way out it usually means keep your mouth shut and keep it to yourself out of respect for those left behind.

As for being judgemental in all cases I have to disagree. There are occurances where we know they took the cowards way out. I know of two within the last 3 months around where I live.

A note that should be remembered here is that I have never really known of a Christian taking the cowards way out.

Those who do not have Christ seem to see life as less valuable and hence if convenient, just end it early. After all, your going to end up there anyway, making all you did one massive exercise in futility anyway.

So, it is never simple.

[InTheWind]

It is a deep subject, take the Japanese suicide pilots, they were`nt cowards.

[InTheWind]

I want to bump this up too make a couple points clear imo.
First there are many reasons i`m sure that bring a person to committing suicide, some good some bad. My main point and problem is when someone automatically jumps to the conclusion that the person was a coward and openly states it in public, very un tasteful and rude imo.
Also, i have to believe there are many Christians that have given up on this earthly body because of suffering from sickness or disease, no one can put a limit on what another person is capable of going through, only God knows what that person feels inside.
I feel it would be better to error in favor of a person with our opinions than to call them a coward and hurt some love ones feelings.

[CoreIssue]

I agree it is a very complex issue. I agree some find themselves in such physical pain going on may prove impossible. I agree just calling one a coward is ill thought out and unwise.

While I don't want to condone just throwing out the coward word, I also don't want to make it sound like thinking about suicide a so-what or no big deal issue.

It is a very serious issue. And needs to be treated as such. Fairly. completely and rationally.

Using it to escape uncomfortable situations is not right or justifiable. If it were there were ther would be a lot more such happenings.

[Sid]

I also don't want to make it sound like thinking about suicide a so-what or no big deal issue.

It is a very serious issue. And needs to be treated as such. Fairly. completely and rationally.

Using it to escape uncomfortable situations is not right or justifiable. If it were there were ther would be a lot more such happenings.


My wife recently had a cousin who committed suicide, suicide is a tragedy for all involved.

I believe that our world is circling the drain, and that suicide will become more common.

Here are a few pertinent facts:



In the interval from 1979 to 1996 there were a total of 535,890 deaths in the U.S.A. that were diagnosed and reported to have been suicides.
Of these suicide victims, 421,991 were boys and men, and 113,899 were girls and women.
There was not one single age group in any year in which boys or men committing suicide did not exceed by far the numbers of girls or women who killed themselves.
The number of male suicide victims rose in virtually every year during the eighteen-year 1979 - 1996 interval, whereas the number of female victims of suicide was generally on the decline in virtually every year.
The number of female suicide victims was considerably lower in 1996 than it was in 1979, in spite of a sizeable increase in the American population during that period. It declined from 6,950 to 5,905 annually. The number of the male suicide victims rose during the same period from 20,256 to 24,998 annually.Youth Suicide and Divorce — Single Parent Homes:
"In a study of 146 adolescent friends of 26 adolescent suicide victims, teens living in single-parent families are not only more likely to commit suicide but also more likely to suffer from psychological disorders, when compared to teens living in intact families."
"Fatherless children are at dramatically greater risk of suicide."
"Three out of four teenage suicides occur in households where a parent has been absent."
"A family structure index - a composite index based on the annual rate of children involved in divorce and the percentage of families with children present that are female-headed - is a strong predictor of suicide among young adult and adolescent white males."
This web page is in memory of the victims of suicide. (http://www.fathersforlife.org/US_suicide_deaths.htm#Introduction)

[CoreIssue]

Agree, Sid.

As people turn to God less, more will seek easier ways out.

I fully recognize there are issues where it is hard to fault suicide. Truly.

But the rates it is happening at far exceed those conditions.

[Jessie]

what about severe emotional pain?

I figured I'm gonna crawl on my hands and knees if I had to to keep going on.
that was when I first got here.

I was so tired of battling emotional pain and all the cultic stuff not knowing how to get out.

[CoreIssue]

what about severe emotional pain?

I figured I'm gonna crawl on my hands and knees if I had to to keep going on.
that was when I first got here.

I was so tired of battling emotional pain and all the cultic stuff not knowing how to get out.
My opinion is emotional pain is extremely tough. Hard as all get out.

But one that should demand confronting and working on. Not running away from.

[Sid]

what about severe emotional pain?

Jessie:

Without getting into details, several times in my life. . . I was in one day at a time mode.


I figured I'm gonna crawl on my hands and knees if I had to to keep going on.
that was when I first got here.

Been there, done that.


I was so tired of battling emotional pain and all the cultic stuff not knowing how to get out.


I really believe that most depression is justified because so much of life sucks.

. . . just keep things in perspective and try to keep a positive perspective and tomorrow will be another day.

[Jessie]

yep, I'm ok, I've just had my moments!

[Jane Doe]

The number of male suicide victims rose in virtually every year during the eighteen-year 1979 - 1996 interval, whereas the number of female victims of suicide was generally on the decline in virtually every year.
The number of female suicide victims was considerably lower in 1996 than it was in 1979, in spite of a sizeable increase in the American population during that period. It declined from 6,950 to 5,905 annually. The number of the male suicide victims rose during the same period from 20,256 to 24,998 annually.Wow, I am shocked by these numbers, and had no idea males were so much more susceptible than females.

wondering why that is...

[CoreIssue]

The answer is simple, Jane.

The male is expected to be the major bread winner. And that job is getting harder and harder.

Good paying jobs are flooding out of the country, actual buying power of a pay check has been in steady decline since 1972.

The trade deficit is constantly hitting new record highs, as are mortgage defaults and bankruptcies. Pensions are being taken away and on and on.

My age group, the 50s, is skyrocketing in high blood pressure, diabetes, heart attacks, strokes and the whole mess.

My group lives in fear of loosing their jobs. The odds of getting another, above grocery bagger level, is very low.

They live in fear of pay and benefit cuts, of increasing expenses while seeing declining income.

Republicans judge everything by the rich man's stock market. Dems live for minorities and environmentalist. The average guy is not visible to either group.

We see illegals getting free medical and all the rest. But we get nothing, cannot afford health insurance and if we have such as diabetes, are not allowed to even buy policies if we could afford it.

Get hurt, and you are in deep trouble.

It use to be disability was for any who qualified who had been paying SSI. Now it is tested, so get disabled and you have to loose everything down to about $3.000 total to get up to max around $1300 a month. Try feeding a family on that.

A white, American citizen male, is pretty much a forgotten and pushed aside person in the US anymore. All the responsibilities are still there, but the opportunities, for the majority, are gone or disappearing.

[CoreIssue]

Answer is simple, Jane.

All the pressures of responsibility are on them, but the opportunities are gone or disappearing.

Illegals get medical and such for free. White guy cannot even buy insurance if he has such as diabetes and so on.

Record high trade deficits tell you where the skilled jobs are going. Record high defaults and bancrupcies come from declining paychecks and job offerings.

The average Joe's buying power was at its last high in 1972. Been declining ever since.

Over 40 and loose a job? Good luck finding a new one above bag boy level.

Get disabled? Now you have to loose everything down to $3,000, approx., while having paid SSI a minimum of quarters to hope for a max of around $1,400 a month in disability (that includes wife's wages and property)

The pressures are so high, if you notice, the group second to the 80 and 90 year olds dropping dead are the 50s.

They are not old enough to have been able to set aside for retirement and too old to be wanted or start over again.

Pensions disappearing left and right as well. That has hit a lot of people I know.

Rep. sacrifice the Middle Class for the incomes of the rich. Dems for the welfare of the lazy and illegal. Thus the Middle Class is rapidly disappearing. At an all time low as a percentage of population.

So, the answer is, males have all the responsibilities they ever have, been are incredibly squeezed in trying to meet them. Squeezed way to hard now.