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View Full Version : Survey: Which gift(s) do you possess?


removed
03-03-2006, 05:02 PM
:gift: :hmm: Paul instructs us to develop spiritual gifts that edify other believers (1 Corinthians 14:12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2014:12;&version=31;)). Which gift(s) of the Spirit (ref. 1 Corinthians 12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2012;&version=31;)) do you possess? And what have you done with your spiritual gift(s)?

removed
03-05-2006, 08:03 PM
:popcorn:

TLIR
03-05-2006, 08:20 PM
I think it is hard for people to say what gift or gifts they have due to humility or uncertainty. Perhaps you could lead the way with your own ideas.

Budgies
04-02-2006, 09:56 PM
Apparently, I have "the manifestation of the Spirit," which every believer has. 1 Cor. 12:7. I have some traits embodied in some of the other gifts (e.g., sometimes I'm wise), but I wouldn't necessarily characterize each trait as a gift in the context of 1 Cor. 12.

Brandli5
04-03-2006, 11:39 AM
I am not saying I have this gift or not. But a good gift to have is the gift of Giving.

Giving of time and of yourself to help someone. If you know of a person who stays home all day, or does not have anyone to talk to talk to even living with people its a good thing to take time and talk with them. Share your life. You do not know how much it means to some people to give them neigbor talk, and or a neighborly gift of time ect.

IT can make someones day and even let someone see christ in you. Sometimes just letting someone know you know they live near you or that you know they are alive is enough to make someones week, year, day!

Jessie
04-04-2006, 12:08 AM
Brandi, that is true!

I was reading J. vernon Mcgees commentarys the other night,
and he said, get a practical gift. he was going over I think it was dorcas,
the one who sewed in the bible. to many want the big gifts, the showy ones.

we need to be practical, that was a good thing to think on.

a.baker
08-17-2007, 05:51 PM
God has given me the gift of the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of me. A new heart. Anything beyond that I don't know. Any change anyone may see in me is not me alone its His. I am Gods for the taking and whatever He decides is up to Him. I have lost my life to receive life so to speak. Worried about only what pleases Him. God can give me a direction and I am full speed ahead, not looking back, constantly looking to Him for guidance. Looking to Jesus for guidance. Giving Him anything I can muster while following His law. So only gifts from the Holy Spirit dwelling within. :nod: :yowza:

Jessie
08-17-2007, 06:02 PM
kindness and encouragement I can already see!

Chrystalwuzhere
08-17-2007, 07:57 PM
Well, I got a CD for my birthday. Does that count? :D :sniff:

Chrystalwuzhere
08-17-2007, 07:58 PM
j/k

I take this stuff seriosly...honestly I do.

I agree with TLIR's post. I've heard WOF teachers brag so much about their gifts and calling themselves prophet this and prophetess that... so, I'm pretty much gun shy.

I will tell you this.... having ears to hear, I hear.

Having eyes to see...I see.

:nod:

a.baker
08-17-2007, 11:01 PM
Chrystal I agree! :nod: I as well gun shy. Its the way we are to be.

kay-gee
08-18-2007, 12:47 AM
I have a gift

all the best...

Jessie
08-18-2007, 03:16 AM
j/k

I take this stuff seriosly...honestly I do.

I agree with TLIR's post. I've heard WOF teachers brag so much about their gifts and calling themselves prophet this and prophetess that... so, I'm pretty much gun shy.

I will tell you this.... having ears to hear, I hear.

Having eyes to see...I see.

:nod:


I absolutly hate it when people tout their own horn. :ick:

preacherbob
10-28-2007, 08:46 PM
Leonardo Da Vinci painted the picture "The Last Supper". It is said that when he had finished the picture he invited his students, peers, etc. to look at the painting. Apparently, Da Vinci had painted a very fine, wonderful lace table cloth for the table. All who came to see the picture saw only the beautiful lace table cloth. He, (Da Vinci) got angry and took a brush and spread paint over the lace while yelling, "The Face, the Face, see the Face of Jesus Christ!!!"
We all look at the lace it seems, instead of the face of Jesus Christ. Seek Him, the Lace will come later when it is needed most.

removed
10-30-2007, 03:44 AM
Leonardo Da Vinci painted the picture "The Last Supper". It is said that when he had finished the picture he invited his students, peers, etc. to look at the painting. Apparently, Da Vinci had painted a very fine, wonderful lace table cloth for the table. All who came to see the picture saw only the beautiful lace table cloth. He, (Da Vinci) got angry and took a brush and spread paint over the lace while yelling, "The Face, the Face, see the Face of Jesus Christ!!!"
We all look at the lace it seems, instead of the face of Jesus Christ. Seek Him, the Lace will come later when it is needed most.

Interesting post, Bob.

This evokes an honest question from my mind. Specifically, are you saying that some people here do not know about their spiritual gifts because their relationship with Mashiyach Yehoshua is underdeveloped? Or are you denying that we get spiritual gifts from YHWH 'El the Spirit immediately after our salvific "new birth"?

removed
10-30-2007, 04:09 AM
j/k

I take this stuff seriosly...honestly I do.

I agree with TLIR's post. I've heard WOF teachers brag so much about their gifts and calling themselves prophet this and prophetess that... so, I'm pretty much gun shy.

I will tell you this.... having ears to hear, I hear.

Having eyes to see...I see.

:nod:


I absolutly hate it when people tout their own horn. :ick:


Be careful, Chrystal and Jessie. Our spiritual adversaries want us to get so fearful of counterfeit things that we forsake the real things which the counterfeit things masquerade as.



Boyd: "Look, you made me walk again, okay? A lot of people tried to do that, but they couldn't."Jonas Nightengale: "Hold it kid, I had nothing to do with you walking."Boyd: "Sure you did. Everybody saw it."Jonas Nightengale: "Look, I run a show here. It's a lot of smoke and noise, and it's strickly for the suckers. I've been pulling one kind of scam or another since I was your age, and if there's one thing I know, it's how to spot the genuine article. Because that's what you got to watch out for, not the cops. You can always get around the cops.But the one thing you can never, ever get around is the genuine article, and you, kid, are the genuine article."Boyd: "Are you saying you think you're a fake?"Jonas Nightengale: "I know I'm a fake."Boyd: "Well, what difference does it make, if you get the job done?"Jonas Nightengale: "Kid, it makes all the difference in the world."Source: "Leap of Faith," Widescreen Edition DVD, Scene 14: "The Genuine Article" [1:33:47 - 1:34:48].


John 3:20 [NIV] (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203:20%20;&version=31;)
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.



I would say that we have no reason to fear the counterfeiters, but rather the counterfeiters have a reason to fear us.

Jessie
10-30-2007, 04:12 AM
what I meant was outright bragging.

not just stating a fact that they have.

Clay Man
02-19-2008, 03:14 PM
I registered here just for this!
The gifts are often discussed but I think the list is a little short. Note this:

And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the LORD hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah; And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship; And to devise curious works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, And in the cutting of stones, to set [them], and in carving of wood, to make any manner of cunning work. And he hath put in his heart that he may teach, [both] he, and Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan. Them hath he filled with wisdom of heart, to work all manner of work, of the engraver, and of the cunning workman, and of the embroiderer, in blue, and in purple, in scarlet, and in fine linen, and of the weaver, [even] of them that do any work, and of those that devise cunning work.
Exodus 35:30 - 35

If the gifts of the Spirit can include metal work, woodworking, stone cutting and weaving then they can include many things.

I like to think I have a gift in repairing things!

Jessie
02-19-2008, 03:26 PM
now thats a gift more should have!

preacherbob
02-19-2008, 08:53 PM
It is indeed a wonderful thing to find a person who enjoys the gifts that God has to give and uses them.
The "gifts" that are in question, I believe, were the gifts of healing, tongues, et.al. as 1st Corinthians chapter 12 explains. Some believe that these gifts have been extinguished but I have proof through the scriptures that they are not.
The gifts that you exhibit are indeed are gifts from God. I love to work with wood, and craft and sell those things that God has given me the ability to do. I am also a Master chef. The woodworking is on the side but I make my living working with food. Again, a God given ability.
The gifts, again, that are questions,( constantly) are those gifts that folks have a problem with. Paul said that the gift of prophesy was one of the better gifts. He also said that the gift of Love was the greater. If you are saved then obviously the gift of Love is the greater because God IS LOVE above all else and when you are saved you receive that one special gift...Love. But the gift of healing, tongues, translation of tongues, etc are mostly misunderstood. I KNOW that the gift of healing exists through the Holy Spirit. My dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I prayed over him and he was healed. I do not have the gift of healing but it was provided at the time it was needed. I do not speak Navajo but in one church service I spoke it. There were two Navajo Natives there to look into the church. They asked me later where I learned perfect Navajo...I am a Louisiana Bayou boy. I speak English and broken french.
The gifts! Who can tell God that He cannot do what He wants to do? Read JOB. ..................And then.....Humble yourself before the Almight God that can do what He wishes and still gives us...His love. bobby

Willy
02-20-2008, 12:14 AM
I registered here just for this!
The gifts are often discussed but I think the list is a little short. Note this:

And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the LORD hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah; And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship; And to devise curious works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, And in the cutting of stones, to set [them], and in carving of wood, to make any manner of cunning work. And he hath put in his heart that he may teach, [both] he, and Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan. Them hath he filled with wisdom of heart, to work all manner of work, of the engraver, and of the cunning workman, and of the embroiderer, in blue, and in purple, in scarlet, and in fine linen, and of the weaver, [even] of them that do any work, and of those that devise cunning work.
Exodus 35:30 - 35

If the gifts of the Spirit can include metal work, woodworking, stone cutting and weaving then they can include many things.

I like to think I have a gift in repairing things!

Hi, Clay Man,

... What were they building?

Clay Man
02-20-2008, 11:51 AM
Willy, you mean in Exodus, right? They were building the tabernacle and the implements used there. If you are implying that gifts are given to accomplish God's will I agree. That would also be in keeping with what Paul taught. The gifts of the Spirit are to edify and build up the church.

The gift of healing, prophecy, tongues, etc., they all are to be used in service for the church. Now take my ability to fix things. Yes, it is more general, but I am still obligated to use it for the church. In my case I repair and maintain the sound system. That doesn't limit my ability to church work only, but then I don't think you can say Bezaleel hadn't done metal work before he was called to work on the tabernacle.

Willy
02-24-2008, 05:56 AM
Willy, you mean in Exodus, right? They were building the tabernacle and the implements used there. If you are implying that gifts are given to accomplish God's will I agree. That would also be in keeping with what Paul taught. The gifts of the Spirit are to edify and build up the church.

The gift of healing, prophecy, tongues, etc., they all are to be used in service for the church. Now take my ability to fix things. Yes, it is more general, but I am still obligated to use it for the church. In my case I repair and maintain the sound system. That doesn't limit my ability to church work only, but then I don't think you can say Bezaleel hadn't done metal work before he was called to work on the tabernacle.
Hi Clay Man,

...Yes I was referring to Exodus and you are correct that the gifts are to edify and build the church.

Your work for the church in maintaining the sound system is a good work. ... I wouldn't mind doing that myself, I've always had an interest in sound reproduction and have installed a few home theaters etc.

There is a gold mine in these verses in Exodus. The building of the tabernacle was to provide God a dwelling place in the midst of His people. ... built to Gods specs. The connection with the Lord Jesus is profound.

The way into the outer court through a narrow gate.

Be a miner ... learn of the silver, gold, wood, the colors of the fine linen etc.

preacherbob
03-09-2008, 10:02 PM
Dearest all of my brothers and sisters in Christ,
When we talk of the "gifts" of the Holy Spirit we are not talking about particular abilities that are imparted to our general lives. My dad was a craftsman of wood, I a Chef, and also a craftsman of wood. My abilities came from desire (on the food side) and to mimic my dad on the wood side).
These are all great gifts that God has given. But, the underlying thought of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not about building buildings, painting, fixing cars, or even doing well at gardening, painting, mowing the lawn, or fixing the air conditioner.
While all of these gifts of the practioner are wonderful, they are not the gifts that Paul, Peter, and all are talking about!
My wife laments because she does not talk in tongues ( a holy spirit gift). While at the same time has the gift of absolute prayer and healing.
I speak in tongues. I have been told Japanese, Spanish and Navajo. Don't know but there was a message for someone.
The "gifts" that God offers you at the very day you take your first breath are a bunch different than the ones that you are given when The Holy Spirit gets busy in your life. You cannot compare the difference.
If you are saved, the Holy Spirit (God) lives within you.!!! You have testified that Christ was crucified for YOU. You have the tickets to enter the kingdom of Heaven.
Now about the extra things....The gifts of the Holy Spirit.....They will come...........be patient. Practice one particular thing..worship only God. He will answer.
I wrote this page without Biblical proof, but if asked I will give proof in 14 scriptures that will proclaim absolute proof and a few dozen that will give you room for thought.

CoreIssue
03-10-2008, 12:58 PM
There are natural ablilities, such as woodworking, that enhance through practice and learning. God does indeed enhance these is some people for a reason.

There are unnatural abilities that God gives for his purposes. Yes, they may tie into natural abilities such as teaching, but they add an element that is beyond the scope of natural man.

tangle sticks
03-22-2008, 02:06 AM
faith in Jesus He is my only savior from my sin's.
1 cor 2:14

CoreIssue
03-22-2008, 02:17 PM
faith in Jesus He is my only savior from my sin's.
1 cor 2:14
That is a true biggie.

MRG
01-09-2009, 10:40 AM
I have Them All Aww Hahahaha, Power ups, Right / Right Time / Right Place. You Too will Experience The Gifts of God, For He Gives Willing to His Children Who Seek His Face. God Has Allot of Toys, Much more than Whats Listed. hehehehe. Treasures Hidden in the Bible....

http://www.1130cc.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl3.gif

in his name
04-09-2009, 01:45 PM
I would say the gifts he has given me are the ability to fix just about anything mechanical.I can take something I have never worked on before and fix it..Also the gift of giving , I love to do something for someone with out them knowing about it .Also the gift of knowledge.. I'm a lot smarter than I think I am.I can get into a conversation about god and say thing I know not of where they come from.But I really do ' it comes from god..

IGoSlo
01-17-2010, 10:40 PM
Paul speaks in 1 Corinthians 12 about these Gifts. He was Quite Adamant as to what these Gifts are, why they are given and how they should be used. No one person has a monopoly on any of these Gifts. They ARE Given FREELY by the Spirit of GOD for the Edification of God's Church. Chapter 13 goes further to Elaborate that The GREATEST Gift one could have and SHOULD STIVE for is Love.
"If I speak with tongues of men and angels and have not Love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy or faith to move mountains, yet LACK LOVE... I am NOTHING... If I give ALL my possessions to the poor and deliver my body to be burned and NOT have LOVE it profits me NOTHING.
Love is patient, Love is kind, Love is Not jealous, Love does Not Brag and is Not arrogant. Love NEVER FAILS...Love Bears ALL things, endures all things. Abide in Faith, Hope and Love. But the GREATEST of these is LOVE."
Paul also speaks in the book of Galatians Chapter 5 1...26 (paraphrased) "Be led by and walk in the Spirit. Let us NOT become Boastful, envying one another, challenging one another. If I Boast, Let me Boast of the Lord. For without Him I am Nothing".

CoreIssue
01-17-2010, 11:00 PM
No argument. Without love the rest is meaningless.

IGoSlo
01-19-2010, 08:36 AM
Question? Why does there have to be a "ARGUMENT or DEBATE" with everything posted here? God has Blessed us with this outlet for "STUDY and FELLOWSHIP". NOT TO ARGUE about what's in the weeds. I found this Forum and "Decided" to join JUST for that. TIME is too short for "Debate"... In FACT the "DEBATE" is "OVER". It was FINISHED over 2000 years ago, when My Lord hung on a tree and shed HIS Blood for you and I. We (Christians) should have THAT message in the "Forefront" in what ever we do. (Paraphrased): "Why do you lay hear on your backs staring into to heavens? This SAME JESUS whom you saw Assend into Heaven Shall Return in the Same manner. Short is the Time, there is much work to be done before that. Do NOT be found in idleness". The Message of Salvation, the Blood of Christ, His Ressurection. There IS NO DEBATE. PERIOD...

CoreIssue
01-19-2010, 01:57 PM
Question? Why does there have to be a "ARGUMENT or DEBATE" with everything posted here? God has Blessed us with this outlet for "STUDY and FELLOWSHIP". NOT TO ARGUE about what's in the weeds.
And yet this very post is a debate on what was said.
I found this Forum and "Decided" to join JUST for that. TIME is too short for "Debate"... In FACT the "DEBATE" is "OVER". It was FINISHED over 2000 years ago, when My Lord hung on a tree and shed HIS Blood for you and I. For Biblical literalists there indeed is no debate on that issue. Yet, being a debate forum that is open to all we get others that will debate us and give us a chance to persuade them to join us.

There are even 'Christians' that would debate how his blood applies and when. Or what a gift is, if they are still given and so on.

Some issues are salvation issues and some are sanctification issues. The Bible tells us to teach, reprove, correct and so forth even among ourselves, meaning we are not always in harmony with each other on every point or correct.

As humans, we just never let it be easy, do we?
We (Christians) should have THAT message in the "Forefront" in what ever we do. (Paraphrased): "Why do you lay hear on your backs staring into to heavens? This SAME JESUS whom you saw Assend into Heaven Shall Return in the Same manner. Short is the Time, there is much work to be done before that. Do NOT be found in idleness". The Message of Salvation, the Blood of Christ, His Ressurection. There IS NO DEBATE. PERIOD...In what the central message of salvation is in fact, I agree.

But remember this was written to those on board whom were being told don't lay around and wait. Get up and get busy.

Yet, other books deal with those getting it wrong who are being told to change and get it straight.

We exist for more than just those on board. We also exist for those not on board or have something wrong along the way. We also exist to teach.

Denominations largely tell you we got it right and will not tolerate challenge. Yet, because they disagree with each other by definition some or all have it wrong.

Paul taught it well. Don't divide but come together and discuss, learn, grow and if done honestly you will get it right.

In light of that denominationalism violates the Bible and puts barriers between us which the unsaved world sees and say you guys cannot even agree among yourselves, so why should we listen?

We have 'Christians' claiming salvation by works, grace only though faith and repentance, conditional salvation, eternal security and some other variants. That strikes at the very heart of the Gospel.

So is debate a wanted thing? No. But is it a needful thing at times? Yes.

Really, this thread is in the forum of discussion and debate, which has held some pretty serious debates at times.

I agree with your premise. Unfortunately we live in this old world where it isn't always the reality as regards agreement on meaning.

Jessie
01-19-2010, 11:49 PM
boy dealing with the reality v. the ideal of the bible is really hard sometimes.

Willy
01-20-2010, 12:19 AM
boy dealing with the reality v. the ideal of the bible is really hard sometimes.

Yes ! :nod:

IGoSlo
01-23-2010, 07:28 PM
If the Holy Spirit uses me to heal etc. who really has the gift? the one He uses me to heal, help or me? I believe whoever receives the benefit of the gifts, receives the gift itself,,,This is Irene, not Dennis

CoreIssue
01-23-2010, 07:30 PM
If the Holy Spirit uses me to heal etc. who really has the gift? the one He uses me to heal, help or me? I believe whoever receives the benefit of the gifts, receives the gift itself,,,This is Irene, not Dennis
The one the Holy Spirits gives the function to receives the gift so others can benefit from the gift.

Giver, receive and beneficiary.

IGoSlo
01-23-2010, 07:32 PM
This is Irene again, In other words, when I was prayed for, for a healing, I was healed. Therefore, I received a gift of healing. When I prayed for someone to be healed, and they were, the only benefit to me was to witness a miracle. But they rose to their feet with a precious gift.

IGoSlo
01-23-2010, 07:39 PM
Irene again, So I have received many gifts, of healing, when I was made well, Of a wise word or prophesy, when I heeded advice or a Word from the Holy Spirit, But I myself possess no gift to boast about as to administer on demand, as demanded, I keep myself open to the Holy Spirit to use me as a vessel to pass the Gifts through..

CoreIssue
01-23-2010, 07:42 PM
This is Irene again, In other words, when I was prayed for, for a healing, I was healed. Therefore, I received a gift of healing. When I prayed for someone to be healed, and they were, the only benefit to me was to witness a miracle. But they rose to their feet with a precious gift.
A Gift of the Holy Spirit per the Bible is not the same thing as praying as someone else and being answered. It has a specifically given meaning.

Exercising a Gift does not require prayer.

Salvation, healing and more are all gifts. But there are gifts and Gifts of the Holy Spirit. The difference is Gifts of the Holy Spirit are abilities God gives us to exercise while other gifts are in no way under our control.

Tricky trying to explain the difference.

IGoSlo
01-23-2010, 10:09 PM
CoreIssue, this is Irene. I have read your response and don't understand your analysis of my answer to a simple survey question. It was, after all, MY answer. I did not post it as an invitation to debate with you or any other christian (and I am assuming you are one). My walk of faith works well with me and I use the Holy Word for instruction and guidance. Other than that, I am watchful of whom I allow to "instruct" me on Scripture. But this I must tell you, I have been following the posts on CTZ and your name has popped up frequently. I have noticed that I am not the only person you felt compelled to correct, rebuke, dissect, admonish, and argue with. You seem so mean spirited and contentious, that you appear to act as a vexatious child. I have feared that some soul coming to the forum for salvation or healing sake, might have turned away, seeing you as unwelcoming (to the point of attack) in your approach. This was my first time on CTZ only because I wanted to answer the survey. You must be monitering my husbands sign-on because you wasted no time in asserting you opinion on my post. This is my last post on this forum. My time serving the Lord is more productive handing out tracts. I will pray for you. I feel so sorry for you. You have much distain and anger. Please don't address me anymore. Your In Jesus' Name Irene

CoreIssue
01-23-2010, 10:36 PM
CoreIssue, this is Irene. I have read your response and don't understand your analysis of my answer to a simple survey question.
I read it as a statement.
It was, after all, MY answer. I did not post it as an invitation to debate with you or any other christian (and I am assuming you are one).
We don't need an invite. Posting in a debate forum makes it debatable.
My walk of faith works well with me and I use the Holy Word for instruction and guidance.
As we all should. But we have to get it right, where enters in the commands to instruct and correct.
Other than that, I am watchful of whom I allow to "instruct" me on Scripture.
As we all should be.
But this I must tell you, I have been following the posts on CTZ and your name has popped up frequently. I have noticed that I am not the only person you felt compelled to correct, rebuke, dissect, admonish, and argue with.
And I posted verses as proof.
You seem so mean spirited and contentious, that you appear to act as a vexatious child.
Ah, so to disagree with you is mean? Or does it mean if it feels good personally it is truth?
I have feared that some soul coming to the forum for salvation or healing sake, might have turned away, seeing you as unwelcoming (to the point of attack) in your approach.
No attacks.

But what are you doing now? Most assuredly not discussing the issues brought up but attacking me for daring to disagree.

Hint, you posted Rev 2 and I responded. I posted Romans 8 and you did not address it.
This was my first time on CTZ only because I wanted to answer the survey.
OK. But you went beyond just answering.
You must be monitering my husbands sign-on because you wasted no time in asserting you opinion on my post.
Nope. I multitask doing other things and my email tells me when there is a response, just as it does for you.
This is my last post on this forum. My time serving the Lord is more productive handing out tracts. I will pray for you. I feel so sorry for you. You have much distain and anger. Please don't address me anymore. Your In Jesus' Name Irene
Sad. Your response, like so many in these last days, is that saying something you don't want to hear equals being a bad person.

I just note you had no problem whatsoever telling others they were wrong but get mad when someone does the same with you.

Jessie
01-24-2010, 12:27 AM
I for one needed help.

those here, have stood by me all the way, teaching me as I go.
I have always recieved sound answers so I could grow.

so no one looking for the truth would be turned away or leave.

CTZ is the first and only forum I have ever seen that has this.