View Full Version : Lack of Evidence for Book of Mormon
CoreIssue
02-18-2006, 01:59 PM
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For more than 170 years, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has declared the[/B] Book of Mormon to be a scriptural and literal history. Subtitled "Another Testament of Jesus Christ," it recounts the story story of an Israelite family who immigrated to and fully populated the American continents. Jesus, after His death and resurrection, is said to have visited this once-great Israelite civilization existing in the Americas.
The Book of Mormon teaches that these Israelites are the principal ancestors of modern-day Native Americans. New discoveries in DNA research currently allow scientists to test this historical claim. Thousands of Native Americans from more than 150 tribes have been tested to determine their ancestry.
Now the same DNA evidence used in courts of law can credibly speak to the validity of The Book of Mormon, which serves as the foundation of the Mormon religion. The evidence answers one basic question: Are Israelites the principal ancestors of Native Americans?
"DNA vs. The Book of Mormon" presents the evidence from DNA researchers, including Mormon scientists, who are wrestling with the DNA dilemma that now faces Mormonism.
Living Hope Ministries
3 min 5 sec - Feb 28, 2003
Trailer: DNA vs. The Book of Mormon (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8479099207945723075&q=DNA+vs.+the+Book+of+Mormon&hl=en)[/URL]
Living Hope Ministries
49 min 25 sec - Nov 3, 2006
[URL="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9143153898478873054&q=DNA+vs.+the+Book+of+Mormon&hl=en"]DNA vs. The Book of Mormon (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8479099207945723075&q=DNA+vs.+the+Book+of+Mormon&hl=en)
CoreIssue
12-07-2006, 09:46 PM
I don't know if it is covered in those videos. But I do know the 'missionaries' argue that you cannot use modern DNA to prove anything. The DNA 'changed' over time and of course doesn't mate up any longer.
Which is an absurd argument, but one many bite into.
But I do know the 'missionaries' argue that you cannot use modern DNA to prove anything. The DNA 'changed' over time and of course doesn't mate up any longer.
How do they explain the DNA testing of Jews and determine which truly belonged to the line of Aaron?
CoreIssue
12-08-2006, 12:29 AM
They claim a divided line which developed separately.
No matter to them DNA has been used on bodies millennial old to ID their origins.
They claim a divided line which developed separately.
Sounds like Mormon theology has as many service paks and patches as a Microsoft® operating system
No matter to them DNA has been used on bodies millennial old to ID their origins.
Since they have their minds made up, facts don't matter.
CoreIssue
12-08-2006, 11:35 AM
Thats about it, Sid.
They have totally illogical responses on so many issues.
It doesn't even matter on how you show them how much and often the official doctrine changes. Like the RCC, shrug and move on.
A young Mormon from Salina, Utah, William Riter, wrote to Apostle James E. Talmage with five questions challenging the Book of Mormon. Riter had been asked the questions by a man from Washington, D.C. who was investigating the claims of Mormonism. Talmage was too busy to answer the questions, so he sent the letter on to Roberts. This was the beginning of an investigation which would trouble Roberts until his death in 1933.
The Disappointment of B. H. Roberts (http://www.mazeministry.com/mormonism/bhroberts/index.htm)
The five questions the Mormon General Authorities could not answer:
1. Linguistics: Riter asked-if the American Indians were all descendants of Lehi-why there was such diversity in the languages of the American Indians and why there was no indication of Hebrew in any of the Indian languages?
2. The Book of Mormon says that Lehi found horses when he arrived in America. The horse described in the Book of Mormon (as well as many other domestic animals) did not exist in the New World before the arrival of the Spanish Conquistadors.
3. Nephi is stated to have had a "bow of steel." Jews did not know steel at that time. And there was no iron smelted on this continent until after the Spaniard conquest.
4. The Book of Mormon frequently mentions "swords and scimiters (scimitars)." Scimitars are unknown until the rise of the Moslem faith (after 600 A.D.).
5. The Book of Mormon says the Nephites possessed silk. Silk did not exist in America in pre-Columbian times.
kay-gee
05-13-2007, 10:05 AM
True faith can cover a multitude of idiosyncrasies. Now I can begin to appreciate how ridiculous Christianity must seem to outsiders and critics. Some things just have to be taken on faith alone. The Mormons have learned this principle well. all the best...
CoreIssue
05-13-2007, 12:59 PM
True faith can cover a multitude of idiosyncrasies. Now I can begin to appreciate how ridiculous Christianity must seem to outsiders and critics. Some things just have to be taken on faith alone. The Mormons have learned this principle well. all the best...
Christianity is a faith based religion. But one where the evidence justifies the leap of faith.
What hurts Christianity the most is the weak Christians and 'so-called Christians' who cannot or will not read the Bible literally.
They make a joke of it in the eyes of the world because the world sees all these conflicting doctrines and wonder why they should believe if we cannot agree on what we believe.
Just look at many of the discussion here. Even from you, KG, words literally say one thing and you and others don't like it. So why should others?
Just pleading faith, as the Mormons do, is an excuse, not a reason.
kay-gee
05-13-2007, 03:04 PM
Just wondering, What things don't I like?....all the best....
CoreIssue
05-13-2007, 06:15 PM
Just wondering, What things don't I like?....all the best....
Just going by what you have said, it appears you do not like what God does in the Trib and, in general, anything that has a 'negative tone' to it, Biblically.
Question. If someone was talking to someone, that you could also talk to, about Christ, and told them to just believe anything they wanted and God would accept that for salvation, with the listener taking it in and obviously leaning to accepting it, what would you do?
What do you do if Mormon's knock on your door? Turn them away or try to discuss with them and maybe plant a seed?
kay-gee
05-13-2007, 07:28 PM
On matters of salvation, I would lay Mark16:16 on them. If they reject that, then there isn't much I can do for them.
I still believe in the inherent right that a man is free to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience (a right enshrined in your own constitution, right up there with the right to bear arms). By extension, I would defend that right to the death, even though I personally think the person is wrong!!! That is not an endorsement of bad doctrine, that is an acknowledgement of a human right. Faith is something that goes right to the core of an individual.
CoreIssue
05-13-2007, 07:42 PM
On matters of salvation, I would lay Mark16:16 on them. If they reject that, then there isn't much I can do for them.
Well, you see, that is where we part company.
First, quoting the Bible at such as a Mormon means you have failed before you begin.
You begin where they are and work to where they should be, like Paul would do in the Baths and on the Street of the Gods.
You CAN get through to a small number. But it takes a willingness to to work at it, fail often and sometimes get a bit heated.
That is an example of what I meant by you not liking 'negative.'
Good grief, do you think the Apostles didn't catch tons of negative? How many times did they have to run for their lives?
Today, 'Christians' are usually too weak kneed to dig into it. Under the excuse of being positive.
I still believe in the inherent right that a man is free to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience (a right enshrined in your own constitution, right up there with the right to bear arms).
Worship A god. Not all roads lead to THE God. Most out there lead to Hell.
Another failure of modern Christianity and Positive Thinking.
God condemned a church for its pride it its openness and embracing wide spread thinking.
[/quote]By extension, I would defend that right to the death, even though I personally think the person is wrong!!! That is not an endorsement of bad doctrine, that is an acknowledgement of a human right. Faith is something that goes right to the core of an individual.[/quote]
So, what matter more? Trying to help them see the truth or allowing them to go to Hell so as not to infringe on their right?
Sure, there are limits. But when one only proceeds with those half way there already that is failure by default thinking.
kay-gee
05-13-2007, 08:45 PM
We are to be sowers of seed. Once the seed leaves our hands, it's pretty well not our responsibility anymore. You can't win em all. Paul didn't. Jesus didn't....all the best.......
CoreIssue
05-13-2007, 09:40 PM
We are to be sowers of seed. Once the seed leaves our hands, it's pretty well not our responsibility anymore. You can't win em all. Paul didn't. Jesus didn't....all the best.......
But you have to sow the seeds deep enough to stand a chance.
Paul recognized that quoting scriptures at those who did not know or accept the scriptures, at that point in time, was an act of futility.
He began with what they understood and worked from there.
You do not realize the Mormons TEACH their own to expect you to do what you said you would do. They have already been innoculated against that.
You have to FIRST create a place to plant the seed.
A farmer does not throw the seed on the ground. He plows a trench, places the seed in it, then covers it over and fertilizes it.
Otherwise, he knows it won't grow.
kay-gee
05-14-2007, 11:26 PM
I no what you're getting at. It's about using whatever resource is expedient to get the point across. We all are different in the gifts that we have been given to work with, though, and I just don't feel that converting Mormons is my field or ministry. At least, I can safely say that I haven't had any cross my path by any sort of divine providence, and I don't go seeking them out either. God uses me as an encourager of those already converted and has equipped me for that task, one of my gifts, being my attitude. What ever your strong point is, should be your area of service. IMHO....all the best....
kay-gee
05-15-2007, 09:31 AM
Some one needs to start a thread, simply entitled faith, so this can be hashed out further. Faith is the one thing that goes to the very core of the human existence. Faith is almost always behind anything that gets done. It flies in the face of insurmountable odds. Sheer faith drove the 3rd Reich into the ground. Faith led Edison to give us the light bulb. On and on it goes. Jesus said faith moves mountains. Faith is a much deeper topic than saying, Why can't Muslims or Mormons (or who ever) just think like us!............all the best......
CoreIssue
05-15-2007, 01:34 PM
I no what you're getting at. It's about using whatever resource is expedient to get the point across. We all are different in the gifts that we have been given to work with, though, and I just don't feel that converting Mormons is my field or ministry. At least, I can safely say that I haven't had any cross my path by any sort of divine providence, and I don't go seeking them out either. God uses me as an encourager of those already converted and has equipped me for that task, one of my gifts, being my attitude. What ever your strong point is, should be your area of service. IMHO....all the best....
Now that I can understand.
What one is gifted at versus what is needed in many areas are two different things.
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