Blaspheming the HS

[Chrystalwuzhere]

This thread was copied over from the old board by Chrystalwuzhere.

Thread starter: Jessie. Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:52 pm.


dont know if I'm in the right forum....

anyhow I was thinking many into wof are so warped that when the HS
is trying to work like thru someone else or to get to them,
that its the devil doing it and will rebuke the devil although its the HS.

is'nt this blasheming the HS?

if they have something what they term negative they start rebuking it

I think this is one of the biggies of how they get their hearts seared.

could this be explained! thanks!

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:20 pm by CoreIssue.


Error yes, blaspheme no.

Blaspheme means to have contempt or to despise. To be in errror, misunderstanding and such is not contempt.

Sometimes the line is thin but it is still a line.

One in error my yet respect the Holy Spirit and listen. One who has contempt for will not.

And that is why one who does such is lost and cannot be forgiven. To be forgiven one must listen. But one filled with contempt will never listen.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:43 pm by Chrystalwuzhere.

Also, it's my understanding that blaspheming is a willful, deliberate thing. Yes?

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:46 pm by CoreIssue.


Also, it's my understanding that blaspheming is a willful, deliberate thing. Yes?

A good answer to that is can one have contempt without having come to a conscientious decision?

In my opinion I don't think it is possible.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:30 pm by Jessie.


I was thinking of the likes of kenneth copeland, and the other woffers.

cause they eventually do have contempt for the true gospel.
they cant hear it anymore.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:07 am by CoreIssue.


I was thinking of the likes of kenneth copeland, and the other woffers.

cause they eventually do have contempt for the true gospel.
they cant hear it anymore.


If they are defrauding God in their claims then it is contempt and disdain.

If they believe their own lies about what the Holy Spirit does and what they are in God then that is not contempt bur self-love, arrogance and self-deception.

Either way they end up in the same place.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:44 am by Jessie.


could you explain what defrauding God would be?

I thought it all went together.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:25 am by CoreIssue.


could you explain what defrauding God would be?

I thought it all went together.

Basically I mean if they are deliberately and knowingly lying and abusing what is said about the Holy Spirit and twisting it to their own gain that would mean they have no regard or fear of the Holy Spirit and only see him as a tool to use for their personal gain.

That would show contempt and disdain for him just by believing they can get away with this. Or don't care because they can get away with this.

Either way they are not upholding the Holy Spirit and God who is to be revered and obeyed.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:05 pm by Flames.

Would not an example of blasphemy or the H.S. be the rejection of Christ when one has witnessed too?

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:41 pm by CoreIssue.


Would not an example of blasphemy or the H.S. be the rejection of Christ when one has witnessed too?

Actually no.

One can reject the witness of a person about Christ but still listen to the Holy Spirit and later accept the prior rejected message upon reflection.

I have seen that happen.

The Holy Spirit is the one who guides our quest for God to success. So one can struggle on the path and work from rejection of the Gospel to acceptance, over time, if they listen to that nagging voice in them that says they need to real God and slowly alters their thinking.

But when they stop listening to that voice then they can never find God. They have no guide then.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:10 pm by TLIR.


Would not an example of blasphemy or the H.S. be the rejection of Christ when one has witnessed too?

Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost???!!!

Try to consider your self in this situation.

Some one you love more than your own life, is degraded to the depths of oblivion.

The Holy Spirit is the most Highly esteemed person in the Godhead.
To speak against that most highly esteemed person is to attack the very core of God!

The core of my family is my wife! (everything I do revolves around her) If some one attacks her. I respond with all my power!! (including deadly force) In the effort to protect her and her integrity.

I will exert all my power and authority to elevate her to the highest position.
Any thing or any one that attacks her in word or deed is subject to my most powerful response!

If you attack her! I will subject you to the full force of my power!! You do not want to arouse my wrath where she is involved.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:36 pm by Flames.


Would not an example of blasphemy or the H.S. be the rejection of Christ when one has witnessed too?


I didn't state this quite the way I meant to, so, I will try to be more clear. What I meant to say is that when the Holy Spirit is prompting someone to salvation, and the person rejects it, is that not blashemy of the H.S.?

So, then are we saying that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is literally like the blasphemy of GOD or Christ's name?

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:05 pm by TLIR.



Would not an example of blasphemy or the H.S. be the rejection of Christ when one has witnessed too?



I didn't state this quite the way I meant to, so, I will try to be more clear. What I meant to say is that when the Holy Spirit is prompting someone to salvation, and the person rejects it, is that not blashemy of the H.S.?

So, then are we saying that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is literally like the blasphemy of GOD or Christ's name?






If you want to get down to particular examples, these verses are directly related to the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

(Mat 12:31 NIV) And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

(Mat 12:32 NIV) Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

What was happening here is, the miracles that were happening by the power of the Holy Spirit through Christ were being attributed to the power of the Devil.
So I would think that one should be careful when attributing miracles to the power of Satan.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:11 pm by Flames.

The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, (Matthew 12:32 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=mt+12:32); Mark 3:28 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=mr+3:28)) consisted in attributing to the power of Satan those unquestionable miracles which Jesus performed by "the finger of God" and the power of the Holy Spirit. It is plainly such a state of wilful, determined opposition to God and the Holy Spirit that no efforts will avail to lead to repentance. Among the Jews it was a sin against God answering to treason in our times.

Strong's Number: 988 Browse Lexicon (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/browse.cgi?number=988&version=kjv) Original WordWord Originblasfhmivafrom (989 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=989&version=kjv))Transliterated WordTDNT (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/NewTestamentGreek/grk.cgi?number=988#Legend) EntryBlasphemia1:621,107Phonetic SpellingParts of Speechblas-fay-me'-ah http://bible.crosswalk.com/images/audio.gif (http://bible.crosswalk.com/cgi-bin/lexicon.pl?id=0988g) Noun Feminine Definition
slander, detraction, speech injurious, to another's good name
impious and reproachful speech injurious to divine majesty
Strong's Number: 05007 Browse Lexicon (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/browse.cgi?number=5007&version=kjv) Original WordWord Originhcanfrom (05006 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=5006&version=kjv))Transliterated WordTDNT (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/OldTestamentHebrew/heb.cgi?number=05007#Legend) EntryN@'atsahTWOT - 1274a,1274bPhonetic SpellingParts of Speechneh-aw-tsaw' http://bible.crosswalk.com/images/audio.gif (http://bible.crosswalk.com/cgi-bin/lexicon.pl?id=5007h) http://bible.crosswalk.com/images/audio.gif (http://bible.crosswalk.com/cgi-bin/lexicon.pl?id=5007hb) Noun Feminine Definition
contempt, contumely
contempt, blasphemy

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:49 pm by CoreIssue.

The key point seems to keep getting missed here.

All are called by God to God. Some try to answer the call and are guided by the Holy Spirit to him.

Some reject the Father and Christ but continue to hear the Holy Spirit so the intial call is continued to be heard. And some of the eventually heed the call and are guided by the Holy Spirit to him.

But if you reject the Holy Spirit you not longer hear that initial call. Thus you have cut your connection to whom gives you the call and guides you to Christ and the Father.

That is the key. When you cut the connection to the Holy Spirit you cut the avenue to Christ and the Father. You cut the source of comprehension and guidance.

The passage is saying that Satan would not cast our Satan. That would be Satan working against Satan. And to attrirbute the miracles to Satan is to say the Holy Spirit is Satan which is showing contempt, rejection and disdain for the Holy Spirit.

So if they see the Holy Spirit as Satan they will never see Christ as Savior and God. They have rejected the Holy Spirit as God and will not listen to him. They will never find salvation because they have stopped listening to him and despise what he tells them.

Thnk about it. Who did Christ send as comforter and counsel? Who washes us in Christ's blood? Who baptises us into the Body of Christ? Who does intercession to Christ for us?

How can any of these things happens if we do not listen to the Holy Spirit?
John 16
7But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%2016&version=31#fen-NIV-26724a)] in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. 12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.


There can be no forgiveness without the Holy Spirit.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:10 pm by Flames.

The key point seems to keep getting missed here



I guess I am missing something...

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:32 pm by CoreIssue.


The key point seems to keep getting missed here



I guess I am missing something...

Hmmm. You don't see that no one gets saved without listening to the Holy Spirit and letting him guide?

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:38 pm by Flames.


Yeah, that part I get.

I guess I sorta thought the thread was about what is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Jessie's question). I may have misunderstood. So, when ya said, your missing the point, I figured I must because it was going in a different direction then my thought.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:48 pm by CoreIssue.


It is about blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

And thus my question.

As Christ said you can say bad things about him or the Father even but one day still get saved because your sin is forgiven.

But you cannot get saved if you block the Holy Spirit out of your life. You have slammed the door on who gets you to the Father and Christ.

See the point?

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:32 am by Flames.

Yep, I got that point.