the rapture

[Jessie]

I've been trying to read the charts.

but can someone go over it for me in words I can understand as to when
the rapture should occur (what will be going on at that point) and also, why we will have a rapture as opposed to going thru the trib.

I think a long time ago, this was gone over but I cant remember.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

I've been trying to read the charts.

but can someone go over it for me in words I can understand as to when
the rapture should occur (what will be going on at that point) and also, why we will have a rapture as opposed to going thru the trib.

I think a long time ago, this was gone over but I cant remember.

God has not appointed us to wrath, and we are not under condemnation. When the trib begins, His wrath will be poured out upon this earth, not upon the body of His Son.

Paul shows us this in 1 Thessalonians, chapter 5.


1THESSALONIANS 5

1 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you.

2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.

3 While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like birth pangs upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you like a thief;

5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;

6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.

7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night.

8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 who died for us, that whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him.

11 Therefore encourage one another, and build up one another, just as you also are doing.

[Jessie]

ok but where does the trib start....in rev.???

looked like on the charts it was the 6th bowl.

but I'm not sure I'm reading it right.

and are we in anything in rev. right now?

[CoreIssue]

In the Chart the red boxes on the left are Pre-Trib.

The Yellow Boxes are what happens to those two churches at the Rapture.

And at the same time those boxes happen to close out Pre-Trib and Church, which the is shown by the red line, these boxes happen to begin the Trib. All these issues happens together at one point in time.
1. First Seal Broken and AC revealed.
2. Two Witnesses Appear
3. Temple 42 Months begins
4. Wedding Supper begins.

Going right you will see another line marked 1,260. Seals 5-7 are on that day.

Then you see another marked 1,261. All 7 Trumpets are on that day.

Together these two days are Mid. Many mistakenly think Mid is one day or a bunch of days. It is only those two days.

Going over you see the Second Coming.

So, you have the key points of Rapture, Mid and Second Coming. All else falls between these timings.

[Jessie]

so does the trib start right after the letters to the church?

I dont understand the flow chart... :blush:
I get what your saying but its still not connecting in my head..

[MHz]

Hi Core,

From another thread, yes I do believe in a rapture to Heaven that includes all of Christs saints;

Re:20:9:
And they went up on the breadth of the earth,
and compassed the camp of the saints about,
and the beloved city:
and fire came down from God out of heaven,
and devoured them.
Re:20:10:
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,
where the beast and the false prophet are,
and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Isa:51:6:
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
and look upon the earth beneath:
for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke,
and the earth shall wax old like a garment,
and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
but my salvation shall be for ever,
and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

[CTZonEdit]

so does the trib start right after the letters to the church?

I don't understand the flow chart... :blush:
I get what your saying but its still not connecting in my head..

The chart is a recipe basically.

From left to right are a list of all the ingredients that make up Revelation. So as you would in cooking you only need to follow in order the list of ingredients to get a tasty treat. :D

The Tribulation starts after the Rapture. When is the Rapture? We have no idea since only the Father knows that key ingredient. But we know the ingredients before (the letters to the Churches) and after (revealing of the AC) so we place the timing of the Rapture in between the two on the chart.

[TLIR]

That is a spooky avatar MHz.??

[MHz]

That is a spooky avatar MHz.??
Do you see the woman looking into a vanity mirror or the skull or both?

[CoreIssue]

From another thread, yes I do believe in a rapture to Heaven that includes all of Christs saints;
Not to mess up Jessie's thread topic here, how about starting another thread and tell us exactly when you think the Rapture is? As in relationship to the Trib and the MK. Those being key time line points.

[TLIR]

Do you see the woman looking into a vanity mirror or the skull or both?

Just a skull.

[MHz]

Just a skull.
The eye on the left is the hair anhead of a woman looking mostly away from you, you can see her left cheek. The right eye is a reflection of this same woman and she is looking almost straight at you. The bottles on the vanity are the teeth.
This is a higher resolution of the same pic.
http://run-down.com/images/galleries/vanity.jpg

[TLIR]

The eye on the left is the hair anhead of a woman looking mostly away from you, you can see her left cheek. The right eye is a reflection of this same woman and she is looking almost straight at you. The bottles on the vanity are the teeth.
This is a higher resolution of the same pic.
http://run-down.com/images/galleries/vanity.jpg

That is pretty neat looking, especially at the higher resolution.
Perception is in the eye of the beholder. Or those who look a little closer.

[MHz]

That is pretty neat looking, especially at the higher resolution.
Perception is in the eye of the beholder. Or those who look a little closer.
The first time I saw it was on an record jacket, the pen and ink used on the bottles really helped, you had to be 20 ft away before the skull could be seen.

Hi Core,

If I run into any more verses I will start a thread, what you have read is pretty much it.

[Brandli5]

Has anyone ever heard of this??

I have heard that the people born in and around 1954 or around there will be the generation that see's God's coming.

I have heard that the bible has some kind of hint of that, something about a treaty being signed in Isral.

Anyone heard of this too?

[CTZonEdit]

The generation would be the one that saw Isreal become a nation in 1948.

So we are approaching 60 years for the very youngest of them.

[Jane Doe]

The generation would be the one that saw Isreal become a nation in 1948.

So we are approaching 60 years for the very youngest of them.


I remember hearing this but never remember reading it. Could you show me the verses in the Bible? Thanks in advance.

[vagabond]

Jesus rose early in the morning of the third day, using that math we still have quite a while before the rapture, about 2500 A.C.

2.5 days = 2500 years

Can you imagine how great the darkness will be in another 500 years?

[vagabond]

Jessie said:

"why we will have a rapture as opposed to going thru the trib. "

If we are "in Christ" at the time of the great tribulation we will be as Noah was in the ark, though Noah went into the tribulation it had no effect on him, he was safely in the ark.

The three Hebrew children went into great tribulation but it didn't harm them one bit, however those responsible for placing them there were harmed.

There remaineth a rest for God's people, those who have entered into the rest will not be harmed by the tribulation.

It takes a lot of heat to purify gold, it takes a lot of pressure to make diamonds.

[Brandli5]

I can't imagine what it would be like here on earth in 500 years. I bet it would not have as many chrisitian people as there are today. Prob not even a handful of them.

[eahaddix]

Greetings in the name of Christ Jesus, vagabond.

Jesus rose early in the morning of the third day, using that math we still have quite a while before the rapture, about 2500 A.C.

2.5 days = 2500 years

Can you imagine how great the darkness will be in another 500 years?

Hold on a second. Where did you get this timetable formula?

If we are "in Christ" at the time of the great tribulation we will be as Noah was in the ark, though Noah went into the tribulation it had no effect on him, he was safely in the ark.

Where does Scripture equate Noah's time in his ark with the saints' time in the Tribulation?

The three Hebrew children went into great tribulation but it didn't harm them one bit, however those responsible for placing them there were harmed.

This is irrelevant. Nowhere does Scripture equate Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego's trial (Daniel 3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%203;&version=31;)) with the Tribulation saints' trials.

There remaineth a rest for God's people, those who have entered into the rest will not be harmed by the tribulation.

"Because you say so"?

It takes a lot of heat to purify gold, it takes a lot of pressure to make diamonds.

You are implicitly conceptually equivocating daily trials and tribulations with the trials of the Tribulation. This is semantical gameplay, not substantive evidence.

[CoreIssue]

I remember hearing this but never remember reading it. Could you show me the verses in the Bible? Thanks in advance.


Matthew 24
32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mat%2024&version=31#fen-NIV-23988d)]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mat%2024&version=31#fen-NIV-23989e)] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

[CoreIssue]

Jesus rose early in the morning of the third day, using that math we still have quite a while before the rapture, about 2500 A.C.

2.5 days = 2500 years

Can you imagine how great the darkness will be in another 500 years?

I agree with Lucky here. This is not a Biblical formula.

But will let you two discuss this one out. Have fun.

[CoreIssue]

Jessie said:

"why we will have a rapture as opposed to going thru the trib. "

If we are "in Christ" at the time of the great tribulation we will be as Noah was in the ark, though Noah went into the tribulation it had no effect on him, he was safely in the ark.

The three Hebrew children went into great tribulation but it didn't harm them one bit, however those responsible for placing them there were harmed.

There remaineth a rest for God's people, those who have entered into the rest will not be harmed by the tribulation.

It takes a lot of heat to purify gold, it takes a lot of pressure to make diamonds.

Again. I agree with Lucky. Your inventing a lot of stuff here.

Will be interested to see your guys' conversation.

[vagabond]

Hey Lucky strike!

You said: "You are implicitly conceptually equivocating daily trials and tribulations with the trials of the Tribulation."

There is one thing for sure: I see things "conceptually" first, for sure. I like to get the "over-all" view of a matter before I start examining the details, it's much quicker and far more accurate that way.

Most start examining the truth through the details, they "all" get lost in the forest, and none agree on the matter.

I would love to examine the details with you, but first I'd like to hear your "birds-eye" view.

Have you arrived at your conclusions through studying out the details? If so you have a long ways to go before you get the "whole picture".

[eahaddix]

Have you arrived at your conclusions through studying out the details? If so you have a long ways to go before you get the "whole picture".

This line of reasoning is backwards. As illustrated by the process of drawing a picture, details come together to form a "picture," not vice versa. Consequently, one must clarify the Scriptural details before logically deducing the "big picture," otherwise presuppositions enter the interpretive process.

I would love to examine the details with you, but first I'd like to hear your "birds-eye" view.


I believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=rapture). Specifically, before the 70th Week of Daniel (ref. Daniel 9:24-27 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%209:24-27;&version=31;)) or "the Tribulation" begins, Christ Jesus will invisibly return to "snatch away" (http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=726) the Church (ref. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians%204:16-18;&version=31;), 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2015:51-52;&version=31;), see also Philippians 3:21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians%203:21;&version=31;), Romans 8:23, 29-30 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%208:23,%2029-30;&version=31;)). Does this information help you?

Now, let us begin with the following questions:

1) The Two Witnesses will exercise an unstoppable 1,260 day ministry (Revelation 11:3-6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2011:3-6;&version=31;)), until God gives the Beast power over the saints for 3.5 years (Daniel 7:25 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%207:25;&version=31;), Revelation 13:5-8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2013:5-8;&version=31;), Revelation 11:7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2011:7;&version=31;)). Hence, when the former's dominance ends, the latter's dominance begins, otherwise a conceptual paradox results. Now, why does the world need the Two Witnesses for these 1,260 days, if the Church remains in the world during this time?

2) During the Tribulation, the Great Tribulation begins with the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15-22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024:15-22;&version=31;), see also Daniel 11:31 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%2011:31;&version=31;), 2 Thessalonians 2:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Thessalonians%202:4;&version=31;), Revelation 13:14-15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2013:14-15;&version=31;), Daniel 12:11-12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%2012:11-12;&version=31;)). However, the abomination of desolation marks the midpoint of the Anti-Christ's seven year treaty (Daniel 9:27 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%209:27;&version=31;)), which indicates that the Restrainer allowed the Anti-Christ to appear 3.5 years earlier (2 Thessalonians 2:7-8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Thessalonians%202:7-8;&version=31;), see also Genesis 6:1-5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%206:1-5;&version=31;)). Now, how can the Anti-Christ co-exist with Church Age believers on the Earth, if the divine Restrainer of all evil has been removed? Would this reality not violate John 14:16-17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2014:16-17;&version=31;), 1 Corinthians 3:16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%203:16;&version=31;), and 1 Corinthians 6:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%206:19;&version=31;)?

3) The date of the rapture is unknown (Matthew 24:36-51 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024:36-51;&version=31;)). Now, how can the rapture occur during the Tribulation, without being predictable?