AC Versus Two Witnesses

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:19 pm by CoreIssue:


Note: The first 22 posts here are reposts from the old board by Chrystalwuzhere.


A topic of discussion for the Trib is the Great Delusion and why people will accept the AC.

I don't think many think of one particurally high visibility and meaning laden area. That being the issues of the Two Witnesses and the issues of the AC in the first half of the Trib.

The Rapture occurs and many rejoice those nasty Biblical Christians are gone, leaving the much nicher and more realistic "Christians" behind. A great man brings peace to the Middle East by his Treaty and enforcement powers.

Yet, there is discomfort because the these two guys that appeared from nowhere in Jerusalem preaching a promise from God about restoring Israel, Jewish need to accept Christ, nothing negative about the Church that just disappeared, are untouchable and seem to possess great power and such. The world hates the Jews and these guys are preaching to them about them and God. The world rejoices in Christians being gone and here these two are preaching that kind of garbage again.

The world likes what the AC says, are awed at his power and hates what the Two say. And even hate more that some people are again turning to God and the Bible.

They have to choose. Follow the AC and his religion. Or follow the Two and the reappearing Christians and their religion.

The AC versus the Two Witnesses, religions and all, with the Rapture, wars, famines, disease and all the rest, create an immediate and growing conflict and forced choices that will seem to revolve around the AC, Witnesses and Israel.

I think the scope and power of these two central polar opposites drive the Trib for the first 3.5 years and set the stage for the Great Trib.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

With today's post-modern world view, the two witnesses will be considered terrorists, and will be dealt with accordingly. That's my .02.

The world hates the Jews and these guys are preaching to them about them and God. The world rejoices in Christians being gone and here these two are preaching that kind of garbage again.

The world also hates being told they're sinning, or that they're under the judgment of God. That's a judgment call... a correct one, biblically, but not a tolerant one that the world wants to hear.

The world likes what the AC says, are awed at his power and hates what the Two say. And even hate more that some people are again turning to God and the Bible.

Since (I believe) the two witnesses will be seen as terrorists, anyone who accepts their message and follows them will be seen as terrorists as well, or at least as sympathizers. In the mass of demonic revelry which will be the Great Tribulation, it will be a no-holds-barred blood bath against the followers of YHVH and most notably, His Son, Yeshua Hamashiac.

The AC versus the Two Witnesses, religions and all, with the Rapture, wars, famines, disease and all the rest, create an immediate and growing conflict and forced choices that will seem to revolve around the AC, Witnesses and Israel.

:nod: Excellent scenario. Round-the-clock news channels, imho, will be carrying live footage of this showdown. The two witnesses have power to shut up the Heavens so that it doesn't rain, they'll breathe fire from their mouths to consume any who tries to harm them... I ask you... who wouldn't cover a juicy story like that?!?!

They will stand in direct opposition to not only the AC, but the psuedo-peace treaty that was signed between Israel and the AC. Folks will see the witnesses, in a seemingly time of peace, a time they have waited to see for so long, screaming out against unsaved Israel, the AC, and no doubt, screaming out against this peace deal. I believe people will accuse them of trying to stir up trouble, and that will make them hated from the start. What will really draw attention is that they can't be killed... at least, not until the time.

Yes, I agree, Core. A lot revolves around these significant players in the drama that will unfold. Much, much, much hinges on it... or else why would the two witnesses be important enough to be shown in Revelation as the two olive trees and the two lampstands before His throne (Revelation 11:4)?

[Chrystalwuzhere]

With today's post-modern world view, the two witnesses will be considered terrorists, and will be dealt with accordingly.

An interesting term I had not thought of before.

Which gives rise to questions. In the eyes of the world terrorist for who or what, empowered by who or what and to what end?

[Chrystalwuzhere]

An interesting term I had not thought of before.

Which gives rise to questions. In the eyes of the world terrorist for who or what, empowered by who or what and to what end?

Well, the Word of God tells us that the Antichrist will specifically make war with the saints. Not just a few thousand citizens who just happen to be Christians, but he will purposely target the saints and make war with them. Therefore, he is an enemy of God. He won't just hate the Christians of Christianity, but he will loathe God, setting himself up to be God.

Therefore, when the Witnesses preach the Word of God, and speak on His behalf, they will become the enemies of the AC. The Bible also says that the AC will make war with the two Witnesses.... think of what that means. A war isn't just rhetoric, or a small skirmish....he will make WAR with them.... in other words, this is personal. The AC will know that Israel, more importantly Jerusalem, is the key to his emperial rule...the way he will get a toe hold on world affairs (after all, who wouldn't have the respect and love of the world if he could solve the middle east problem).

Since the AC knows Israel is the key, he wants to keep a tight reign on it...the last thing he needs is the two witnesses there crying out against him, his treaty, and the rest of the world, and backing it up with fire from their mouths. He can't overcome them until the time, so that leads me to believe he will strike out at them with repeated attempts. Not only that, but they will be preaching the word of the Lord, and that is a word coming from his #1 enemy....God.

Who would they be terrorists for? God. Think about it, they will shut up the Heavens, they will breathe fire out of their mouths and kill all who try to harm them.... that will be, in their eyes, terrorist tactics. Christians will be hated, and that is proven by scripture. They will be killed at record pace...

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Yep. It will be a mess.

But, if they see the AC as their god who will they see the Two backing? Their version of Satan?

I do not believe the world will see God as God.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

I do not believe the world will see God as God.


I think they'll refer to Him by the name "God" but I don't think they'll see Him as the true God. It's just how they will identify Him, just as He has been identified for centuries and millenia past.

The followers of the AC will not believe in the God of Israel, so true.

They will hate the idea of God...but will not believe He is real. Who will they see the two backing? They will see them as backing the God we know as God, but whom they don't accept to be God. Does that make sense?

[Chrystalwuzhere]

It makes sense.

But, I do not think they will see God as we see God in any manner.

I believe it will be more like Occult and such see him. The AC being a god, God being a god and so on.

But many gods of many strengths competing for who rules and what realities will prevail.

My opinion of course.

Remember, a lot of these people will believe in Ascended Masters and such striving for godhood. And many of them will be striving for godhood themselves.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

It makes sense.

But, I do not think they will see God as we see God in any manner.

I believe it will be more like Occult and such see him. The AC being a god, God being a god and so on.

But many gods of many strengths competing for who rules and what realities will prevail.

My opinion of course.

Remember, a lot of these people will believe in Ascended Masters and such striving for godhood. And many of them will be striving for godhood themselves.

Ya know, I hadn't thought about that, Core. That's definitely something to ponder on.

I think there will be some who do think of God, know He's real, and hate Him.

There will be some who don't believe in Him, period.

But, the book of Revelation tells us that the whore (RCC) will ride upon the back of the Beast....this will be one of the ways that the Beast gains control over many folks - their religion. The religions of the world will come together under one umbrella.... unity. Being a so-called christian faith, catholicism (christianity) will just be seen as another "way" of worshipping.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

But, the book of Revelation tells us that the whore (RCC) will ride upon the back of the Beast....this will be one of the ways that the Beast gains control over many folks - their religion. The religions of the world will come together under one umbrella.... unity. Being a so-called christian faith, catholicism (christianity) will just be seen as another "way" of worshipping.


:peep: Well, got to disagree, again. Ain't this fun?

Remember that Rome and the RCC are ancient Roman Paganism cloaked as Chrisitianity. And that now the RCC is moving more and more rapidly back toward that Roman Paganism.

And in that Paganism there were many gods and humans could be come gods.

See where I am heading here?

Rome slaughtered saints, but many forget it did it both as Pagan and as "Christian."

The robes and such fully apply both to RCC and Pagan Rome.

So the Harlot is both and one and the same.

RCC elevates saints to demi-god status. As they do Mary and so on.

I do not believe the AC will cloak himself in Chrisitanity. But as God Emporer, Caesar if you like. And the FP will be the Pontificus Maximus in the Pagan meaning of the word, which means the head of the many gods and religions of Rome.

Like the Occult, Mysticism and such use the name Christ, but a Christ that bearsn absolutely no resemblance to the Biblical Christ in any manner. Just another title among many.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

:peep: Well, got to disagree, again. Ain't this fun?

How dare you!!! :rollingp:

Remember that Rome and the RCC are ancient Roman Paganism cloaked as Chrisitianity. And that now the RCC is moving more and more rapidly back toward that Roman Paganism.

Yes, that's why I said it was considered to be a so-called Christian faith. They, and the secular world, consider them to be Christian, but we know they're pagan. :nod:

And in that Paganism there were many gods and humans could be come gods.

See where I am heading here?

I don't think we're disagreeing at all.

Rome slaughtered saints, but many forget it did it both as Pagan and as "Christian."

The robes and such fully apply both to RCC and Pagan Rome.

So the Harlot is both and one and the same.

RCC elevates saints to demi-god status. As they do Mary and so on.

I do not believe the AC will cloak himself in Chrisitanity. But as God Emporer, Caesar if you like. And the FP will be the Pontificus Maximus in the Pagan meaning of the word, which means the head of the many gods and religions of Rome.

Like the Occult, Mysticism and such use the name Christ, but a Christ that bearsn absolutely no resemblance to the Biblical Christ in any manner. Just another title among many.


I don't think the AC will cloak himself in Christianity either. I think he'll cloak himself in religion.

The RCC is already playing kissy-face with other religions of the world. Islam, Hinduism, etc... They'll all be swept together under the same umbrella.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

I think the AC will be a completely different god figure altogether. If you do not accept him or his mark you're going to be killed. Regardless your religion or faith. You will bow down to him and what he represents (renouncing any faith you had before be it Christian, Muslim, Jew, JW, Morman, Catholic, Buddist, Hindu etc.)

So im not sure if cloaking himself in religions will work.

He would have to be a religion unto himself, convincing people that the religions of old are archaic and destructive he is the new way that humanity will succeed. He is the new god, and has new plans for humanity's future.

I think he will be more New Age / Secular than religious. Look at the trends now, more liberal, more open mindedness, self awareness, self centeredness, self consciousness, self help etc. A real move away from religion and faith twords self and being.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

The book of Revelation says that the whore will ride on the back of the Beast, but only for a time. Then he will turn on her and devour her.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

good discussion....

I think the AC will use the RCC despising her all the time until he gets into a place where he can get rid of her.

Interesting thought about the 2 witness's being considered terrorists.

I wonder how do they have fire come out of them?
and have to be killed that way? or something like that?

[Chrystalwuzhere]

The book of Revelation says that the whore will ride on the back of the Beast, but only for a time. Then he will turn on her and devour her.


And I believe that is when the full reversion to Roman Paganism occurs.

Revelation 17 shows the the Ten Toes the Roman Empire collapsed into and in which the RCC, in Rome, held power and persecuted the saints. But even in the collapse it remained Mystery Babylon via the RCC.

Or, put another way, Satan used the RCC to keep Mystery Babylon going.

But, in the last days the Ten Toes reunite, as the EU, and Pagan Rome is restored. RCC devoured Pagan Rome and then Pagan Rome restored will devour the RCC.

Just remember, Pagan Romanism does not require all the old gods return. Just the Roman God Emporer.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

good discussion....

I think the AC will use the RCC despising her all the time until he gets into a place where he can get rid of her.

Interesting thought about the 2 witness's being considered terrorists.

I wonder how do they have fire come out of them?
and have to be killed that way? or something like that?



Not sure if the AC will use the RCC or if we are already seeing him begin to push them out of the way.

You see what the Two Witnesses do in the OT to lesser degrees and scope. You see them at work in the Seals.

As for them dying, that is required since they come from a time where all died and were not promised living Rapture. And they die the death of the prophets, as in killed by those who reject their message.
For them it means special eternal reward.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

do you think the AC is already in power? just waiting for his revealing moment?

how do you feel he is pushing them away right at this point.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

I believe he is in some position of power in the EU, but not the top slot yet.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

Well, because we see the whore ride on his back, it tells me personally that he will use her for a short time, but then will turn on her and destroy her.

I personally don't think we'll see the AC, or the OWR deviate to RCism, but I do think she'll play a role for a short time. The Beast gets tired of her riding his back, and deep-sixes her.

As for religion, the AC won't embrace any one already established religion, per say... yes, he'll combine them all somehow, but he himself will have his own religion, and serve a god that his fathers did not know....He will magnify himself above all other gods, and above all other religions...he will make sacrafices to his god with silver and gold, and costly stones and treasures...

Here's what Daniel says about the AC's god....


Dan 11:36 "Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done.

Dan 11:37 "He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will he show regard for any {other} god; for he will magnify himself above {them} all.

Dan 11:38 "But instead he will honor a god of fortresses, a god whom his fathers did not know; he will honor {him} with gold, silver, costly stones and treasures.

Dan 11:39 "He will take action against the strongest of fortresses with {the help of} a foreign god; he will give great honor to those who acknowledge {him} and will cause them to rule over the many, and will parcel out land for a price.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

I believe he is in some position of power in the EU, but not the top slot yet.

Me too. :nod:

[Chrystalwuzhere]

does the bible tell us where he comes from?

I've heard so many storys...

[Chrystalwuzhere]

does the bible tell us where he comes from?

I've heard so many storys...


We know he comes out of the Ten Toes. That eliminates Israel, Iraq, Syria and other places claimed by some.

We knows the King that Was who will be the AC comes from Greece.

When you go through all the statements of John and Daniel that leaves Alexander the Great.

So, while not guaranteed it is highly likely he will come from Greece.

[Chrystalwuzhere]

I personally don't think we'll see the AC, or the OWR deviate to RCism, but I do think she'll play a role for a short time. The Beast gets tired of her riding his back, and deep-sixes her.


Possibly. But it must be a very short time since the AC has the FP with is idol fully ready to role and acceptable to the masses at Mid.