Buddhism

[CoreIssue]

From my files. Not my creation.

Question: Some Buddhist sects refuse to deify the Buddha, while others believe one should deify the Buddha--who has the correct Buddhist tradition/beliefs of who/what Buddha is?

Chinese Pure Land (Jingtu) Buddhism believes in the celestial buddha Omitofo, believed to Amitabha from India, that presides over the pure land.

Japanese Pure Land (Jodo) Buddhism believes in the same thing, only the buddha is named Amida.

While Zen Buddhism believes in "self-power" (jiriki) and an impersonal buddha of ultimate reality, Pure Land (Chinese and Japanese) Buddhism believes in "other power" (tariki), or the dependence of the "saving power" of a celestial buddha for "salvation," or entrance into the pure land.

There can only be one non-paradoxical truth. In other words, no set of opposing propositions (Buddha as a deity and Buddha only as an impersonal reality) can both be true, otherwise reality would be in paradox.

[DaimyoMateo]

Well first off it should be understood that the teachings of the Buddha would be better taken as simply a start of a dialogue. Unlike the Ten Commandments in stone that Moses got and where the symbolism should be clear here but Buddhism should not be treated in the same manner. Gotama planted a seed sort of speak and over time it blossoms and changes in different places. So if some want to deify Buddha then go ahead and if some don't then go ahead. One can say that Buddhism is really just Hinduism stripped down for export. Knowing that Hinduism has a very different myth model than Christanity, you should not apply values that are alien to it because you will not get anywhere by doing so. Instead of the universe as an artifact as in Judeo Christian mythology, it is a performance or a great play by the great cosmic one itself. Being a Buddha is to find out that you too are this also. Buddha is not God but he is of the same substance as the universe which all of us too are made of also. Silly Buddhism, Thorism makes more sense:):.

[CoreIssue]

Thorism?

Which variety? The ancient version of the modern version?

Either way, Buddhism, Thorism or any of those remain false religions.

There are not multiple truths.

[DaimyoMateo]

I agree I believe there are false religions

[DaimyoMateo]

Buddhism is a false religion because it is not even one.

I know many are quick to classify (even some buddhists) it as one. If someone does say Buddhism is a religion then it must be understood that they do not mean it in the same sense as one would speak of Islam or religion of Zeus. The closest thing I can think of in our culture would be Psychology or psychotherapy. The western man developed finding a shrink as a private affair and is mostly a one on one practice. Eastern man makes it into a group activity and deals with the ego or lack of it. I know there is imagery of supernatural events, miracles etc. found in Buddhism but these are just myths. The older meaning of myth does not mean something false. It means an image that helps someone make sense of some part of the world. Like the flow of electricty can be explained kind of like the flow of water. The activity of water would be the myth in this case. Did Buddha really plant lotus flowers with every step as a child?? of course not but maybe the myth of this story helps show how Buddha's ideas grew and spread as he wandered around to teach it. So yes it is a false religion at least in my opinion because if you incorprate it into the catergory of religion then the word religion really does not mean a whole lot. We can throw that word away since clearly just about anything can be a religion. Things are defined by other things that lay outside the catergory. If you or anyone else wants to define Buddhism as a religion then fine you may do so but it is like saying chiropratic care is an religious practice. Of course I am aware that Buddhism in Tibet is treated more like a religion than say Zen is in Japan but they both are mainly concerned with consciousness or ego which is a false sense of identity. Reincarnation is sciencific (if you accept which you is the real you) which is just saying that the body grows and then breaks down as you die and becomes many other things. Worms eat your body when you are a corpse in the ground ("your" body is really just a flow of matter from many things) and become what was you at one time into the living worm. The matter which is you now is never the same. Everytime you eat you change the material around to convert into your pattern. Body is the real "you" the ego is an hallucination.

[CoreIssue]

Buddhism is a false religion because it is not even one.
Actually it is.

Ones god can be anything, as in self, the universe, a spirit being, a thing, whatever.

The idea that relgion requires a holy book, a supreme spirit being and such is false. That is not the definition of religions.

Atheism and Humanism are religions.
I know many are quick to classify (even some buddhists) it as one. If someone does say Buddhism is a religion then it must be understood that they do not mean it in the same sense as one would speak of Islam or religion of Zeus.
Of course.
The closest thing I can think of in our culture would be Psychology or psychotherapy.
There, I disagree.

Those deal with understanding self.

Buddhism is dealing with the connection of self to all.
The western man developed finding a shrink as a private affair and is mostly a one on one practice. Eastern man makes it into a group activity and deals with the ego or lack of it. I know there is imagery of supernatural events, miracles etc. found in Buddhism but these are just myths.
Not to them. But in reality are.
The older meaning of myth does not mean something false. It means an image that helps someone make sense of some part of the world.
Not exactly.

Yes, it was to make sense of what is.

But they did, by faith, believe the myth to be true.
Like the flow of electricty can be explained kind of like the flow of water. The activity of water would be the myth in this case.
No. That is parable, not myth.
Did Buddha really plant lotus flowers with every step as a child?? of course not but maybe the myth of this story helps show how Buddha's ideas grew and spread as he wandered around to teach it.
But they believed it true.
So yes it is a false religion at least in my opinion because if you incorprate it into the catergory of religion then the word religion really does not mean a whole lot.
Actually, it takes on the full and tremendous meaning and conclusion.

That being everyone has a religion. Cannot be avoided.

And this reality is reflected in the Bible. It says everyone has a god, be it God or a god, even if themselves.

It is an inescapable truth. Everyone holds something as supreme. And that is a religion.
We can throw that word away since clearly just about anything can be a religion.
Yep. And it does not make the word worthless.

It tells everyone that like it or not they believe in something. And will be accountable for that belief.

There is no such thing as spiritual neutrality.
Things are defined by other things that lay outside the catergory.
I disagree.

Yea, a bunch want to say otherwise, to hold themselves superior and above such concepts.

But they cannot.
If you or anyone else wants to define Buddhism as a religion then fine you may do so but it is like saying chiropratic care is an religious practice.
Nope. It isn't. That is not the supreme thing in that practioner's life.
Of course I am aware that Buddhism in Tibet is treated more like a religion than say Zen is in Japan but they both are mainly concerned with consciousness or ego which is a false sense of identity.
A lot more too it than that.
Reincarnation is sciencific (if you accept which you is the real you) which is just saying that the body grows and then breaks down as you die and becomes many other things.
Nonsense.

Reincarnation is the migration of spirit from shell to shell. It never breaks down.

A lie based on the truth of glorification. As all of Satan's lies are.
Worms eat your body when you are a corpse in the ground ("your" body is really just a flow of matter from many things) and become what was you at one time into the living worm.
Nope. "I" is in the spirit, not the flesh.
The matter which is you now is never the same. Everytime you eat you change the material around to convert into your pattern.
"I" reside in my flesh. "I" am not my flesh.
Body is the real "you" the ego is an hallucination.
I don't buy the whole Id, Ego and Superego thinking. It is an excuse to make "I" purely biochemical.

[DaimyoMateo]

You see you are still talking about Christianity and I thought in here we were discussing Buddhism.
Buddhist do not believe in Souls so there is no invisible floating thing that is you that goes into other things. The body is "you" (whatever "you" is).

In christianity you can think of spirits going from shell to shell all you want. In Buddhism there is no mere shell. You are mixing these two very different views together. If we are going to talk about Buddhism then fine lets leave out Christianity. There is junk Buddhism just like there is junk Christianity. No real sophisticated Buddhist believes in karma as a law of cause and effect that will determine the outcome of a next life. Like no real sophisticated Christian believes in an invisible man with a beard on a throne who has royal prerogatives. The western understanding of Buddhism is so horrible and so superficial that it is like a reader's digest education in Buddhism. Strawmen go up and strawmen go down.

[DaimyoMateo]

Maybe you are thinking of Bhakti Yoga which Christianity is just another form of it.

[CoreIssue]

No. I was talking Buddhism and reality.

More than Christianity accept Satan's existence.

Buddhism is junk, all forms. There is no reality or truth in it.

Your whole premise of what is religion is flawed.

And no one can look at anything except from some basis of reality, regardless of whether one's reality is true or false.

Another one of those issues like what religion is. Again, many don't like it, but it is reality.

Science knows there is more to Man than biochemical. Honest ones have stated it cannot be found in a lab for there is something their that defies scientific law.

History, archaelogy and more attest to that fact.

Buddhism fails miserably in trying to explain it.

If the explanation fails then the foundation fails.

[DaimyoMateo]

Well that is strictly your OPINION and the problem lies in the fact that you are judging by the foundation on christianity on everything else and therefore the judge and the advocate are the same. In your mind Buddhism has to be wrong, because that was the foregone conclusion it had to be. I am not here defending it as a truth. I am not even a Buddhist but I do care for a fair trial and I am hearing alot of misconceptions and vague notions that are like so many other Christian minded people in this country. If you need your punching bags to feel better than go ahead and wack away at your propped up dummy of Buddhism. I see no point in this as an intellectual conversation.

[CoreIssue]

Well that is strictly your OPINION and the problem lies in the fact that you are judging by the foundation on christianity on everything else and therefore the judge and the advocate are the same.
No. That is wrong.

I became a Christian AFTER reviewing the beliefs of other religions.

They all fell apart upon analysis.

And the fact remains EVERYONE has a foundation from which they judge things.

If their foundational approach is wrong, they will arrive at the wrong conclusions. Simple fact.
In your mind Buddhism has to be wrong, because that was the foregone conclusion it had to be.
No. Buddhism is wrong because what it says cannot stand up to testing.
I am not here defending it as a truth.
Then why do you keep defending it?
I am not even a Buddhist but I do care for a fair trial and I am hearing alot of misconceptions and vague notions that are like so many other Christian minded people in this country.
Buddhism cannot stand up against testing. It fails.

Not against the Bible, but against logic and reality.
If you need your punching bags to feel better than go ahead and wack away at your propped up dummy of Buddhism. I see no point in this as an intellectual conversation.
And yet you keep coming back. Hmmmm.

If you reject it then why do you defend it?

Where are your proofs? I have heard none.

Buddhism believes in a beginningless universe. Science has proven it had a beginning. Failed a test.

[DaimyoMateo]

Namaste

[CoreIssue]

Namaste
If you have a case to prove, prove it.

Otherwise, defending Buddhism while claiming not to is pretty pointless.

[a.baker]

Do I have a understanding of true Buddhism? Do they meditate to basically have no pain physical or mental? Like when they meditate can they go through any mass of pain and not even flinch? Don't they also separate any mental feeling of attachment of say for example a family member when they die? Don't they also practice weird unnatural acts with their body parts? Don't they also practice the endurance of pain so they can over come it?

[a.baker]

Whoa! The cleansing acts are weird and unnatural! When one suppresses physical and mental feeling that makes them nonhuman. If they can't feel then why do they eat and what do they eat? How do you break on through to someone like that if they have no feelings? Do they enjoy anything? There would be no room for enjoyment in there case. Why??? How, when, and why did it come about? Where it was originated is that because there was a lot of pain, sickness, and torture in their country and so they made this Buddhism? Weird and very sad.

[a.baker]

Is that the only religion where no god is present? Lots of questions. You seem to know of research on it.

[Jessie]

to me buddism is a offshoot of hinduism. whether thats true of not I dont know

neither any good.
I can attest to that.

[CoreIssue]

Is that the only religion where no god is present? Lots of questions. You seem to know of research on it.
You have to get the definition of god correct. It simply means what is supreme in your life.

As the Bible correctly states, to many they are their own god.

But, there are religions that reject any being supreme to themselves, such as Atheism, Humanism, many forms of Mysticism and Occult, numbering literally in the hundreds, which fall under the banner of New Age, and more.

Christian Science believes in a supreme principle, not being.

Other Side, levels of existence, oblivion, reincarnation and on and on.

Thousands upon thousands of religions in the world. You only hear about the biggies, or the unbrellas coverning the lesser ones.

[DaimyoMateo]

yes Jessie you are right.

[CoreIssue]

One quick question, DaimyoMateo.

Why do you use an idol for an avatar?

[DaimyoMateo]

Whoa! The cleansing acts are weird and unnatural! When one suppresses physical and mental feeling that makes them nonhuman. If they can't feel then why do they eat and what do they eat? How do you break on through to someone like that if they have no feelings? Do they enjoy anything? There would be no room for enjoyment in there case. Why??? How, when, and why did it come about? Where it was originated is that because there was a lot of pain, sickness, and torture in their country and so they made this Buddhism? Weird and very sad.

Suzuki or ALan Watts books do a good job introducing Buddhism to western minds. It just seems to me that there is a real negative view that you seem to hold and I dont know why or how it came to be. Yes all over the world and in any time period, humans can and do mean and horrible things. It is not limited to a certain culture of people. There are of course very depressed Buddhists that feel pain and get hungry just like any other person. Part of being human. Buddhism isnt a way to get some kind of one upmanship on the world. It is not to achieve powers over nature. It is said that the highest Buddha is like a ordinary person. It does not change your sense perception, it changes your prejudice on those senses.

I don't however agree with the four noble truths of Gotama.

The first one mainly where it states that Life is Suffering (or sorrowful in some translations)
I think it is a small view that is dependent on Humans around with brains that can feel the suffering.
I have heard two ways to use the word Life. One way is to use it only for things such as us and plants and any other lifeform and not things like rocks and clouds. Other way is everything in reality. Life is the lifeforms, rocks, stars etc etc.
I don't know which one Gotama is thinking when he thought of the Four Noble Truths. Maybe he had a completely different view which is possible.
I don't know why they are noble either :)

[CoreIssue]

Exactly what is your point, here, if you reject Buddhism? Your goal?

Can you enlighten us? So far, I don't see much value in any of this, since no one here accepts Buddhism.

[DaimyoMateo]

I have this Avatar because I liked it. Thor & Mjolnir

[CoreIssue]

I have this Avatar because I liked it. Thor & Mjolnir
Hmmm.

[DaimyoMateo]

Exactly what is your point, here, if you reject Buddhism? Your goal?

Can you enlighten us? So far, I don't see much value in any of this, since no one here accepts Buddhism.07-23-2007 07:34 PM



I just like some of its views and some I have a hard time understanding or simply dont agree with.

You don't see much value in this? We are just having a conversation. Not forcing you to read it if you are bored with it. The spirit in which I write about Buddhism is not one of converting anyone. It is more like sitting you down to hear music and nothing more. It is more for entertainment value.

[CoreIssue]

[quote]Exactly what is your point, here, if you reject Buddhism? Your goal?

Can you enlighten us? So far, I don't see much value in any of this, since no one here accepts Buddhism.07-23-2007 07:34 PM


I just like some of its views and some I have a hard time understanding or simply dont agree with.

OK. You have that right, for sure.

But, as a Biblical Christian, I hope you see I have no use for any of it.

To me, religious, social and in every other way I find important, it is a futile and stagnant system.

I see no value in it.
You don't see much value in this?
In painting a picture of how wrong and futile it is, I do.

In defending it, even slightly, I am mystified.
We are just having a conversation.
OK. It is rare someone comes on without a supportive agenda on a religion. So it was puzzling.
Not forcing you to read it if you are bored with it.
Well, as Board Admin, do you really think I can let things go unread? :scratch:
The spirit in which I write about Buddhism is not one of converting anyone. It is more like sitting you down to hear music and nothing more. It is more for entertainment value.
OK.

Just a very exotic subject for this. You have to admit that. ;)

[Jessie]

yes Jessie you are right.


sometimes we find quotes or thoughts in other things/religions that
sound good. but the whole overall is just rancid.
then we look deeper into it, and sometimes get trapped in it.

thats why its so important to follow the truth, man can come up with some really cockeyed things.

I've seen first hand what hinduism can do.
its nasty stuff. so awfully destructive to one.

[DaimyoMateo]

what does it do Jessie?

[Jessie]

it causes great confusion of mind. destroys the mind and spirit.

take a look at india what did it do for their people? and I mean before we started transferring our western culture there.

all is a illusion? oh man when I heard that I about fell over.

leads to poverty of mind, body and spirit.

its just filthy.:grr:

[kay-gee]

Some Hindu adherents in Toronto lost a house, due to burning stuff to an idol in a linen closet. I suppose it could be dangerous in that sense too!!!!

all the best...

[a.baker]

Yes it is different from the truth. Seeking truth in anything but biblical is false. Once you open a door to something its like a flood gate. It can lead to other doors. You can get lost and by the time you realize it you may be in deeper then you realized. Nothing wrong with yoga as say for an exercise but it needs to stop there. The history of Buddhism is pretty nasty and unnatural. Those people are lost. Those people were almost constantly meditating. At least for majority of their days and enduring in pain to not feel pain. They lived in special buildings that were like their houses and they only dwelled there, way way back in the day. That is some history on it I have researched. You can't take a little of this and a little of that. The bible says a relationship with Him is all or nothing. But we are going to talk about Christianity in just about every topic because this is a Christian website. Yes I have a hard time listening to anything but what the bible teaches. We are supposed to except but not endure. A hard one for me. I am young and feisty and I have to suppress that within me a little. Patience is all and can be achieved with the Holy Spirit resting inside of us. It makes it so we don't have to turn to anything else for peace. Gods says to rest our burdens on Him and we will become humble and find peace. He is a peacemaker. The devil is very sneaky and tricky so we must keep our guard up to see false. God also says no idols of any form. Not even a man made thing of Him. Partly why I disagree with Catholics. Just my two cents. We need to look at or go to, nothing but Him and the bible and we will find peace. Meditation in prayer to Him is a must. But meditating other wise... be careful!

[a.baker]

You must endure of history of all too. Yes there was bad things that happened in Christian history but the bible is the history book to look at, and the bad history of Christians will be explained. You will see the false of say putting one to death of witchcraft because they would read a book. Those were so called Christians hanging people because they thought they were witches. But the commandment thou shalt not murder explains it to start. Everything we need to know is in the bible and that is it. What about my other questions in a reply way in the beginning? Yes original Buddhism was there and may not be now but you have to look at history of it too. Please explain why they cleanse the way they do or did. And please explain where it started and why and where it is exactly now and your take on it. What you throw out and what you take in. What kind of music do you refer to? And please show me any false in my research of history or the main fruit of it. Not an attack to you just questions so I may understand where you are coming from and make sure I have the history right before I sound foolish in my research.

[a.baker]

Exodus 20: 4-6

Commandment:

"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments."

Not to preach to anyone but that says to me no idol of any. Thats how I take it in. We must go to God in fear but in love to really know Him ( also some where in the bible).

[a.baker]

Sorry I must apologize on some. I didn't clearly read all of the posts foolishness on my part. I am still getting a good strong foundation in Gods word from the bible and I am new to much. I may judge in the process and shouldn't and I apologize. You have stated some research but I guess I was looking for more so I may have a clearer understanding.

[DaimyoMateo]

wow what a breath of fresh air:)

Yes, I would love to sit here and chat with you a. baker on this.
when more time permits I will respond and we can go from there.

[a.baker]

sounds good and I look forward to talking to you.

[DaimyoMateo]

What can we talk about?

[DaimyoMateo]

what was the question?

[a.baker]

Well for starters, are there not different forms of Buddhism? Why do some or all (I don't know too much detail) totally disconnect themselves from feeling physical and mental? Don't you personally think we were created with feeling for a purpose? A good example would be death of a loved one. Now Buddhism is centered around having control no matter what happens is it not? Wouldn't being a Buddhist make life pointless and robotic? Don't they frown on imagination and focus on only control to have a continuous sense of peace? If a Buddhist (correct me if I am wrong) has no god and therefore become their own god than why mess with it at all? And if so where than would you explain these feelings come from? Can't argue we are different from any other animal. Also can't argue that ones soul craves something more than peace.

[DaimyoMateo]

Well for starters, are there not different forms of Buddhism? Why do some or all (I don't know too much detail) totally disconnect themselves from feeling physical and mental? Don't you personally think we were created with feeling for a purpose? A good example would be death of a loved one. Now Buddhism is centered around having control no matter what happens is it not? Wouldn't being a Buddhist make life pointless and robotic? Don't they frown on imagination and focus on only control to have a continuous sense of peace? If a Buddhist (correct me if I am wrong) has no god and therefore become their own god than why mess with it at all? And if so where than would you explain these feelings come from? Can't argue we are different from any other animal. Also can't argue that ones soul craves something more than peace.


Well I will try to answer the best I can. Remember I am not a Buddhist nor do I care to "convert" anyone to it. I already know people here may not argee with it. We are simply talking about what it is and not whether it is true or not.

Actually alot of what you say sounds alot like what I would of said few years ago. I was anti-Buddhist and maybe even more so than Christianity. I thought the idea of a hierarchy of lifeforms in the reincarnation and cycle of life was absurd. If you are good you can become an eagle but if you are bad you may become a slug. So I look out into the world and see birds and insects and suppose to order tham all in a royal order. I did not think a slug should be any worse or better than a bird. It is simply surviving its way as the bird is.

I also thought the same about becoming like a robot and give up emotions etc. Waste your time in meditation and bang gongs and burn incense. All this nonsense needs to stop.

Now that I think of it it really was like Paul of Tarsus. I was a big antagonizer of Buddhism but then one day I had a profound experience listening to Alan Watts talk about Zen. It hit me like a light bulb went on in my head. I suddenly realized how wrong I was an how my culture growing up twisted and misrepresented it all along.

So I will go down your list and try to answer your questions now the best I can.

Q. "Well for starters, are there not different forms of Buddhism?"

A. No, There are different forms of Buddhism.


Q. "Why do some or all (I don't know too much detail) totally disconnect themselves from feeling physical and mental?"

A. I am not sure what you mean here. Are you implying they should not think and ignore feelings? give me an example please.

Q. "Don't you personally think we were created with feeling for a purpose?"

A. This question is directed at me as a non-buddhist and I say yes I think we have feelings for a purpose.

Q. "A good example would be death of a loved one. Now Buddhism is centered around having control no matter what happens is it not?"


A. Please explain alittle more here. Buddhism can't not control all matters of life. Are you saying that when a loved one of a Buddhist dies, the Buddhist should not cry?

Q. "Wouldn't being a Buddhist make life pointless and robotic?"

A. Well I am an atheist and I think life has no specific purpose or goal to reach and nature can seem robotic with its cycles and unreasoning. So a Buddhist may or may not feel this way. Being a Buddhist would not make you feel this way. It depends on the person from the start. If I became a Buddhist I may still feel the same but if my girlfriend became a Buddhist she may still feel the same, that is that life is not pointless.

Q. "Don't they frown on imagination and focus on only control to have a continuous sense of peace?"

A. hmmmmm out of all the books I've read, People (buddhists and non-buddhists) and lectures I have listened to I have never heard this before. Buddhism does not control people to not have an imagination. If a Buddhist wants to stop his or her imagination then go ahead but it is not some kind of rule that you have to.

Q. "If a Buddhist (correct me if I am wrong) has no god and therefore become their own god than why mess with it at all?"


A. Yeah I don't follow you here. Mess with what? Some Buddhists believe in a god and some do not. Being a Buddhists has no bearing on the matter. It is like you can be a republican and believe in God but being a republican has no bearing on whether you do believe or not. You can be a Buddhist and believe in the Big Bang or Evolution if that is what you do.

Q. "And if so where than would you explain these feelings come from?"


A. This question just popped out of nowhere:)
What feelings? This question seems to be part of another question that I am not sure of.

Q. "Can't argue we are different from any other animal. Also can't argue that ones soul craves something more than peace."

A. True I cannot argue that we are different from other animals. We look different and do other stuff but pretty much same. Yes you are right about can't argue about the soul craving more than peace. I don't even believe in a soul.


so please just give me more detail in your questions so I can be better at explaining them. I will also simply write some stuff to hopefully better your understanding of it.

[a.baker]

My husband is agnostic and he did lots of research and still does on religions. He knows theres a god but hes just as confused as you are. So my information on Buddhism comes from him. So this is my understanding of the religion. I am curious also because I work with a couple who are Buddhists and would like to learn about their religion to maybe help to introduce them to Jesus. The man speaks perfect English but the wife speaks close to none; they are very good people I might add. I think they are from Bhutan but I might be mistaken.

My husbands search shows that Buddhist have many different groups just like say Christianity does with their denominations. It showed that Buddhist separate and dumb down feelings so feelings have no control over their lives. They practice pain to mediate the sense of pain out. They are always meditating for peace within themselves. They have different cleansing acts they believe to be beneficial for some reason. They feel with controlling these things and numbing feelings and keeping separation from love and pain they can better control their environment and therefore can have the sense as, nothing can effect them. They become their own god in a way. Its all about focusing on self and training self for only self. I say the example, as if a loved one dies, to show how much they distance their feelings to feel they have control. Life and death happens and is no big deal for them. They won't become depressed because their daughter has just died at age 20 in a car accident. They accept the death as death and move on. They like to see visions when they meditate to gain what they sense as some sort of wisdom because it opens their minds. They see feelings as a waste of time and energy and it throws out what they call balance.

[DaimyoMateo]

yeah I think I see what you mean now.

Let me get back to you in a bit I will write something for you and we can try to figure this all out. I gotta do some cleaning here before the landlords show the place!:):aah:

[DaimyoMateo]

Ok back!

hmmm where to start?????

I don't have any degree in the teaching of Buddhism. I am not a Buddhist and again I don't care to be a defender of it. I can say that my major in college is history and my focus was east asian history so Buddhism is covered. At least I thought so until I discovered many more things about it not covered in the classes. In college I only had a historical understanding of Buddhism and its politcal influence etc. I had no understanding of the Great void, Shunyata, Meditation, blah blah blah etc. It wasn't until I had that profound experience listening to Alan Watts talk about Buddhism that I realized I really did not no much about it. I had like a readers digest understanding of it but nothing substantial. So I admit that most of my understanding of Buddhism comes from him. I read many of his books and listened to over 10 hours of lectures by him. I did however want to make sure I was getting a fair and correct meaning of Buddhism. So I sent messages to other Buddhist monks on myspace and asked if Mr. Watts presents a fair representation. They mostly said he is as good as any. I visited a zen center and asked the same thing. So I feel confident that I got a good understanding now. I did read Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki which I enjoyed.

ok I just want you to know that I am not just some guy off the street just trying to throw BS your way. I want to be careful and not give you incorrect information and also I acknownledge I could be wrong somewhere or weak in explaining it. I will try my best with the time I have to write this out.

I will start a new message to begin.



I gotta go but will continue little later.
Here is a little something that may be of interest.
It is Alan Watts talking about Zen on my site.



http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=27745994

[DaimyoMateo]

Main Buddhism in Bhutan is Mahayana Buddhism. Yes many kinds of Buddhism exist. Zen is a form of Mahayana Buddhism and there is Pure land school and Tibetian etc. These groups don't really bicker at each other because the attitude is that all will reach the same place. They are all just different methods and some work better for some people and others work better for others.

It showed that Buddhist separate and dumb down feelings so feelings have no control over their lives.

The main thing to remember is that a Buddhist does not believe in a duality. When someone says "I am hungry" The "I" is extra. Also like when someone says " I have a body" the Buddhist would say "I am a body". Your ego is one thing and your body a second thing but they are both one thing. In Suzuki's book he says " not 1 and not 2 but 1 and 2" Might be like trying to explain the trinity to someone who has no understanding of it. It is not just 1 and 2 and 3 but all are one too.

One of the main differences between Hinduism and Buddhism is that Hindus say that since you can be aware of your body, you are not the body, since you can be aware of your feelings, you are not the feelings, since you can be aware of your thoughts, you are not your thoughts. The essence of you is somewhere else observing this take place. It is called the Atman. You fundementally are this atman which is god (Brahman) playing the whole world as a drama. Well the Buddhist asks why do you want to disconnect yourself from your body? It is because your body falls apart and is uncomfortable. Why disconnect yourself from emotions? Because they can be embarrassing and uncontrollable. So the Buddhist says you cling to this Atman as a hope of self continuning your damn ego. the Buddhists teach Anatman (like a-theist but An-Atman) Non-Atman. It really is not against the idea of the Atman but it believes any concept of this Atman would be wrong. So stop clinging to it and free yourself and that is how you find liberation.

[Jessie]

hindus believe in a force to be tapped into.
all is a illusion. no life is not a illusion.

God made you body, soul, spirit.

insanity comes when they find this so called liberation. which is more bondage not liberation.

[DaimyoMateo]

Hello Jessie thanks for your 2 cents. I am not done though with my writing on it.

[a.baker]

Huh. Interesting. No wonder why these two people at work laugh at everything. You know the two I work with, where they come from their parents chose who they are to marry when they are still babies. When we were talking at work one day about family and how you should care for them and love them no matter what because they are still family; one of them gave a look and expression as to say "Huh never thought of that before, sounds good." Some comments I made about family made them think. Well at least the one who spoke good English. I also referred to a church I used to go to ,telling of a story from back when, as my church. And he sure did look confused but I was talking to someone else. I didn't mean "my". I want to be respectful of them but I want to share Jesus with them in some way. I am not sure if they have ever heard or not. So this info. will be helpful to me.

[DaimyoMateo]

It is not the easiest thing to talk about. Three libraries full of books on Buddhism would never truely get at the point. It is the best we can do at the moment. Use the opportunity to learn about Buddhism from them too.