The Message

[CoreIssue]

Note! The first ten posts here were copied over from the old board by CoreIssue. Please note in the title who actually posted it.

Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:35 pm By CoreIssue

Quoting myself from another topic.


The Message: "Our Father in heaven, Reveal who you are. Set the world right; Do what’s best— as above, so below. Keep us alive with three square meals. Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others. Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil. You’re in charge! You can do anything you want! You’re ablaze in beauty! Yes. Yes. Yes."3 [Emphasis added]

Even being a paraphrase vesus a translation does not let this off the hook.

That is not even close to what is said. It is a rewrite into something from another religion. As said, New Age.
God has revealed to us who he is.

Set the world right? That is a conotation of God fixing people instead of looking for them to repent.

Do what is best? As in compromise?

Disgusting.


The Message bears investigation.

If things like this are common in it then it ranks with the Catholic Bible replacing repentence with penance and more. Or the New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses changing such as the Word being God to being a god.

[CoreIssue]

you know that bunch of muck does'nt even resemble the Lords prayer...

the as above so below is a magical term.

it is new agey.... how people can do this is beyond me.

and rick warren uses this paraphrase "the message" in his pdl book.

I will see if I can find a site that showed some more errors of this message.
I think I have it in favorites.

[CoreIssue]

heres the link

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2003/1-purpose.htm (http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2003/1-purpose.htm)

scroll down about 1/4 of the page it shows some verses......

[CoreIssue]

Add by CoreIssue: The new full wysiwyg does not function identically to the old. To see cleaner side by side comparisons on the verses contained in the post you will need to visit the site. Sorry.

Eugene Peterson has said that The Message isn't a bible, it's just a commentary. But, for some sad, sad reason, people are not only using it as a Bible...they're using it as GOSPEL in place of the Bible!!!

They've stopped using the Bible for daily study, they're using The Message instead, and the Bible has been permanently put aside. http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/images/smiles/scared.gif

Can you imagine the implications of that???

I think there will be penalties for distorting God's word the way Peterson has. God's Word is pure, awesome, powerful.... it is the reflection of His Son... indeed, it is His Son. But Peterson has interpreted it to the point where it is completely distorted and perverted.

For instance, according to Peterson's "The Message," he makes it sound as if homosexuality is not a sin.... it is a sin if you have homosexual sex without love!!! Talk about perverting the word of truth!

A friend and I once persuaded a man about the errors in the Message, and thankfully, were able to get him to stop using it. Before he was finally swayed, he would make arguments like, "Yeah, but this isn't a bible, it's just a commentary." We would argue that one shouldn't use anything this perverted as a commentary on the Word of God. He finally came around, and stopped using it. I consider that a victory.

So, as you can see, I've been down this road before.....

Here are some side by side comparisons from the Message, and the Holy Bible.

John 10:30
"I and the Father are one."

John 14:28
"...The Father is greater than I."

The Message:
"I and the Father are one heart and mind."

The Message:
"The Father is the goal and purpose of my life."


1 Timothy 4:1 "...in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons."The Message: "...as time goes on, some are going to give up on the faith and chase after demonic illusions put forth by professional liars."
Thessalonians 2:9: "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs, and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved." The Message: "The Anarchist's coming is all Satan's work. All his power and signs and miracles are fake, evil sleight of hand that plays to the gallery of those who hate the truth that could save them. And since they're so obsessed with evil, God rubs their noses in it - gives them what they want. Since they refuse to trust truth, they're banished to their chosen world of lies and illusions."
Galatians 5:19-21: "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like." The Message: "It is obvious what kind of life develops out of trying to get your own way all the time: repetitive, loveless, cheap sex; a stinking accumulation of mental and emotional garbage; frenzied and joyless grabs for happiness; trinket gods; magic-show religions; paranoid loneliness; cutthroat competition; all-consuming-yet-never-satisfied wants; a brutal temper; an impotence to love or be loved.... ugly parodies of community. I could go on."
Colossians 2:10: "...and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority." The Message: "You don't need a telescope, a microscope, or a horoscope to realize the fullness of Christ, and the emptiness of the universe without him..." (Emphasis added)
1 Corinthians 6:9-11: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders [sodomites] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified..." The Message: "Unjust people who don't care about God will not be joining in his kingdom. Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, use and abuse the earth and everything in it don't qualify as citizens in God's kingdom. A number of you know from experience what I'm talking about, for not so long ago you were on that list. Since then, you've been cleaned up and given a fresh start...." [Emphasis added]
1 Corinthians 6:18-20: "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body." The Message: "There's more to sex than mere skin on skin. Sex is as much a spiritual mystery as a physical fact. As written in Scripture, "The two become one." Since we want to become spiritually one with the Master, we must not pursue the kind of sex that avoids commitment and intimacy, leaving us more lonely than ever - the kind of sex that can never "become one." ....In sexual sin we violate the sacredness of our own bodies, these bodies that were made for God-given and God-modeled love, for "becoming one" with another?"
* [One could conclude that "commitment and intimacy" or "becoming one", not marriage, set the boundaries for acceptable sex.]
And here is the one that sickens me every time.....
Romans 1:26-27: "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." The Message: "Worse followed. Refusing to know God, they soon didn't know how to be human either - women didn't know how to be women, men didn't know how to be men. Sexually confused, they abused and defiled one another, women with women, men with men - all lust, no love. And then they paid for it, oh, how they paid for it - emptied of God and love, Godless and loveless wretcheds."
* [This strange wording leaves a loophole for homosexuality to be permitted if it was an expression of love, not lust - which many gay couples claim today. In other words, lust becomes the sin, not the choice of a same-sex partner. The consequences of disobedience, "due penalty" seems broader than "emptied of God and love..." Historically it includes sexually transmitted diseases as well as spiritual death. That politically incorrect possibility is deleted here.]
Romans 3:19-20. "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin. The Message: "This makes it clear, doesn't it, that whatever is written in these Scriptures is not what God says about others but to us to whom these Scriptures were addressed in the first place! and it's clear enough, isn't it, that we're sinners, every one of us, in the same sinking boat with everyone else? Our involvement with God's revelation doesn't put us right with God. What it does is force us to face our complicity in everyone else's sin."
It forces us to face our complicity in everyone else's sin??? Is this saying that we cannot tell others about sin without being guilty of sin ourselves, so we should just concentrate on our own sin? http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/richedit/smileys/Thinking/thinking04.gif
Hmmm... let's look at this further....
Galatians 6:1-2: "Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted." The Message: "Live creatively, friends. If someone falls into sin, forgivingly restore him, saving your critical comments for yourself. You might be needing forgiveness before the day's out."
Yeah... that's what Peterson's saying....
I'll stop there, this post may be too long to post without having to divide it up. But, this gives you a good idea of what is contained within the Message.
Pastors are leaders who are responsible for not only knowing the Word of God, but also being able to teach it without error to the flock. So tell me why someone like Jack Hayford, who is saddled with the responsibility of knowing God's Word, would say...."The Message is certainly destined to become a devotional classic - not to mention a powerful pastoral tool." http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/images/smiles/blink.gif That sounds like a glowing endorsement to me.
http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/images/smiles/nono02.gif
* means the quote was taken from the link posted below, as were the side by side comparisons.
http://www.crossroad.to/Bible_studies/Message.html (http://www.crossroad.to/Bible_studies/Message.html)

[CoreIssue]

Chrystal thanks for showing all this.

a lady invited me to one of their ladys meetings.
on the flyer I saw, saddleback church then pdl.

I told her that the pdl was destroying churches. and then I found out about
this "message" that was being quoted in the pdl.

she thinks the pdl is the greatest. I am going to print and give this to her.

please pray God will open their eyes!!!

I've also been wary of hayford for a long time.

I've got a sneakin supspision that a lot of pastors know full well what they are doing,
and others fell and got caught in the trap.

on the thes. 2:9 the message uses anarchrist instead of antichrist
whats a anachrist? never heard that word.

[CoreIssue]

I looked up anarchist in the dictionary, and this is what I found (from dictionary.com):

an·ar·chist http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3 Fr%3D67%26q%3Danarchist) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/abreve.gifnhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gifr-khttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gifst)
n. An advocate of or a participant in anarchism.Heh, that tells us a lot, doesn't it? What the heck is anarchism.... so, I looked it up and this is what it said (again, from dictionary.com):

an·ar·chism http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3 Fq%3Danarchism) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/abreve.gifnhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gifr-khttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gifzhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gifm)
n.


The theory or doctrine that all forms of government are oppressive and undesirable and should be abolished.
Active resistance and terrorism against the state, as used by some anarchists.
Rejection of all forms of coercive control and authority: “He was inclined to anarchism; he hated system and organization and uniformity” (Bertrand Russell).
Ummm...that doesn't sound like a good substitution for antichrist to me. What do you think?

[CoreIssue]

The Message is included in the list of Bible translation on Bible Gateway.

That site is used a ton. I use it a lot myself.

[CoreIssue]

nope it sure does'nt sound like a good word for the AC.

what an illusion they are trying to spin.

who sponsors or owns bible gateway?

[CoreIssue]

Quote:who sponsors or owns bible gateway?
Check out the web site (http://www.biblegateway.com/) information.

[CoreIssue]

will do.....

[Jessie]

on another board Jack hayford was brought up, having to do with
having communion with unbelievers.

It is becoming apperent that people are equating BEING NICE to being good in
Gods eyes.

osteen, and hayford are on the outside "nice" but that does not
excuse error.

and I think those are the worst kindof wolf, the one who looks like a sheep.

[CoreIssue]

The Bible does give special warnings and distaste for wolves in sheep clothing. :nod:

[Jessie]

yep :nod:

[CoreIssue]

I have heard that on the new Rapture Ready board they are promoting The Message as being a good Bible read.

I sincerely hope that some will come here and read the materials and do some research on their own, as well, before using it for any serous study.

It is NOT a translation. It is NOT evern a paraphrase. It is a doctrinal statement coming from bad theology.

[Jessie]

It was in chat. I have not gone back to rr board or christines new board since the split.
nethogs chat.

[Jessie]

nethogs chat is todd.

heres a good link

http://www.crossroad.to/Bible_studies/Message.html

[TEXASGRANDMA]

I was surprised when my son's Pastor used a verse from The Message. He is a good preacher and always preaches the truth of the Gospel. I am hoping that he just thought in that one verse it was more understandable.
betty

[CoreIssue]

Thanks for the correction, Jessie. Need to keep facts facts. :tiphat:

[kay-gee]

Think I'll stick with New American Standard Version. I also read KJV for the beauty of the language. Also NIV and NKJV to compare things concerning language. Never use paraphrases or bibles unique to groups such as New World etc,,, all the best....

[Jessie]

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/themessage.htm

another good link

[Jessie]

heres another link.

http://www.seekgod.ca/messageoverview.htm


(sorry Chrystal for posting the same link as you gave on page 1)

[Jessie]

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/mess_bible.html


now this is scary indeed....

[kay-gee]

How do you know that this New age (Deliberate), and not just a really terrible version? All the best.......

[Jessie]

well its deliberate on satans part using people to do it.

some are decieved others are knowing full well what they are doing.

to change Gods word making it so generalized takes away from its meaning and thats just not right. boy is that not right.

[CoreIssue]

Jessie is right.

A bad version will attempt to stay true to the original words and meanings.

This doesn't even make the effort to give an appearance it does that. It completely changes the meanings.

[kay-gee]

It will likely end up on the junk heap with all the other stuff that has tried to water down or dis-credit the faith. New Age is complete malarkey! Take a lesson from the prophet Elijah and the prophets of Baal. People eventual tire of calling upon dieties that don't even exist. Especially in an age of education and knowledge, as the one we live in. I wouln't give New Age a second thought. It's mostly flakes that participate in it. OUR GOD RULES!!!
All the best...........

[CoreIssue]

Think I'll stick with New American Standard Version. I also read KJV for the beauty of the language. Also NIV and NKJV to compare things concerning language. Never use paraphrases or bibles unique to groups such as New World etc,,, all the best....
Smart thinking.

[roman8]

The Message was the first so called bible I read through, It was recomended to me as great for beginners. It didnt seem right to me from the start , Watered down . I now read the KJV mostly and the NLT. It now collects dust along side the "Purpose Driven Life"

[kay-gee]

High roman8 What is NLT? not familiar with that. The KJV is so rich. Whenever I quote passages like John3:16 etc I talk in the language of the KJV. Brought up with it I guess. I think that the very best newer language versions is the NASV (New American Stanard Version) It is based on even older manuscripts than were available at the time of King James. all the best.......

[roman8]

Hi Kay-gee, NLT is the " New Living Translation", I use it when I dont understand certain words . But Mostly I read the King James.